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#openttd IRC Logs for 2019-10-12

---Logopened Sat Oct 12 00:00:53 2019
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04:16<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh closed issue #7703: Inactive industries make inappropriate/unlogical sounds
04:16<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh merged pull request #7752: Prevent sounds being produced by inactive industries
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05:34<TrueBrain>hi andythenorth :)
05:34<andythenorth>quick run away!
05:34*andythenorth is watching TV
05:46<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] abmyii commented on pull request #7752: Prevent sounds being produced by inactive industries
05:57<andythenorth>also hi TrueBrain how are you? :)
06:19<TrueBrain>good, thank you for asking. How about you?
06:20<andythenorth>I have had 2 coffees
06:21<TrueBrain>owh boy
06:23<andythenorth>so is Github Actions winning?
06:37<andythenorth>oof I wish I had somewhere to publish docs :P
06:37<andythenorth>maybe I should buy a server
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06:59<andythenorth>I bought a server from Mr. Jeff
06:59*andythenorth working on a tech tree display page
07:13<nielsm>ouch, rebasing indproclayout2 onto modified indproclayout
07:15<andythenorth>needs background arrows
07:15<andythenorth>pointing to the right
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07:16<andythenorth>trying to make something like
07:16<andythenorth>except less glossy :P
07:20<nielsm>rebase complete, it compiles again
07:24<nielsm> there's also something with how terrain is leveled (or rather, is not) that seems wrong
07:30<TrueBrain>andythenorth: GitHub Actions are more practical; but another 2 weeks or so before it is out of beta
07:35<nielsm>I want to level each sub-building but not the merged layout
07:35<nielsm>that gives som fun challenges
07:36<nielsm>can't arbitrarily choose to raise or lower land, it might prevent other tiles from constructing
07:38<TrueBrain>hmm .. Digital Ocean is nice and all, but it is pretty clear to me now why they are cheaper than the other cloud services ;) What they offer for their price is awesome, but very soon you are recreating things that other clouds already solved for you
07:38<TrueBrain>makes sense, I guess
07:38<TrueBrain>but the whole idea to use a bit more managed stuff, is so it needed less custom work :P
07:38<andythenorth>oof :)
07:39<andythenorth>nielsm: yes, tile height offsets within / between layouts is tricky
07:39<nielsm>also this line looks very wrong:
07:39<nielsm>if (TileX(tile) <= + 1U || TileY(tile) <= + 1U) return false;
07:40*andythenorth can't remember how much OpenTTD terraforms for industries
07:40<nielsm>doesn't it check whether the X or Y coordinate of the north corner of the industry is at most the industry_platform value?
07:40<nielsm>okay nm
07:40<andythenorth>I can't remember the vanilla handling
07:41<nielsm>it checks for being too close to a corner/edge
07:41<andythenorth>I wrote my own :P
07:55<nielsm>I'd basically have to simulate the changes to terrain as the sub-buildings are placed...
07:56<nielsm>so placement of further buildings take the (proposed) changes from previous buildings into account
08:12<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] kiwitreekor commented on pull request #7575: Feature: Add industry production graph
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08:22<andythenorth>now with arrows and crap
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08:27<_dp_>not much of a tree
08:27<_dp_>more like bamboo forest :p
08:34<andythenorth>tech forest :P
08:35<andythenorth>maybe it needs splitting up :P
08:52<andythenorth>really, would be better as graphviz tree
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09:05<andythenorth>so what domain shall I register?
09:06<andythenorth>that S3 bucket address is lame
09:08<andythenorth>TRUEBRAIN.TV is available :D
09:11<andythenorth>can I run cron on s3?
09:12<andythenorth>I need some way to build all the projects
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09:18<supermop_pdx>here i am exploding my computer with generative capsule towers
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09:20<nielsm>andythenorth: try separating the units from the figures in the power/speed, and style it so the two lines are aligned
09:22<andythenorth>oh like a mini-table?
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09:22<andythenorth>I think the whole thing needs presented differently, but eh
09:22<andythenorth>those two figures probably fit on one line also
09:22*andythenorth got distracted
09:22<andythenorth>wondering if it's time to just scorch the earth
09:23<andythenorth>the devzone hg repos won't import to github, so I'm considering just abandoning the hg history
09:23<andythenorth>and eints can't commit to github, so I'm considering abandoning translations
09:26<nielsm>eh should be possible to convert the hg repos "offline" and then push that to github?
09:27<andythenorth>no, the history is broken
09:27<andythenorth>eints makes broken commits
09:27<andythenorth>they can be fixed, but not by me
09:27<andythenorth>I want out of hg, and I want the repos off unmaintained infra
09:28<nielsm>I thought hg was better protected against making broken/weird histories than git
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09:31<Eddi|zuHause>i'm sure that you can break it if you knock on it hard enough, but andy uses the word "broken" differently to normal people...
09:33<FLHerne>I started a server 'Casual UK-ish server' because I feel like playing with andythenorth's shiny vehicle grfs :P
09:36*andythenorth looking in the logs for what frosch said is broken
09:36<andythenorth>not very easy to find :)
09:38<@peter1138>Simple. Everything is broken.
09:39*andythenorth shops
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09:44<supermop_pdx>FLHerne: sounds fun
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10:08<@peter1138>Has Apple closed open source development off yet?
10:10<FLHerne>Not on macOS
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10:56<@peter1138>Sounds like it's coming.
10:56<Eddi|zuHause>i wouldn't put it past them
10:58<supermop_pdx>FLHerne: what version is your server on?
10:59<supermop_pdx>ive always wanted an andy-sh server for casual firshorsehogsquid games
11:01<FLHerne>supermop_pdx: 1.9.3 -- I stopped because I couldn't persuade people to play; just put it back
11:02<FLHerne>(so it's up again now)
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11:09<andythenorth>looks like I need hg-fast-export
11:10<andythenorth>they can't really kill open source on macOS
11:10<andythenorth>developers need it for the iOS cash cow
11:11<andythenorth>unless they can make enough service money off selling photo storage and TV shows, then mac is dead
11:12<andythenorth>chromebook anyone? o_O
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11:18<andythenorth>"ImportError: No module named mercurial"
11:18<andythenorth>that's lolz
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11:23<@peter1138>That's correct.
11:28<andythenorth>lolz I have to use a virtualenv to install virtualenv
11:28*andythenorth wonders how these things happen
11:29<andythenorth>eventually I will have mercurial :P
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11:36<andythenorth>@seen frosch123
11:36<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: frosch123 was last seen in #openttd 5 days, 21 hours, 45 minutes, and 51 seconds ago: <frosch123> to align the sprites with the text below it?
11:37*andythenorth wondering how to fix "warning in commit 8d49662898124ba0043cb9e5672818ed55dffd3c: nulInCommit: NUL byte in the commit object body"
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11:40<Eddi|zuHause>where would a null byte be in that output?
11:40<andythenorth>how does one look for a null byte?
11:40*andythenorth is in stack overflow currently
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11:41<Eddi|zuHause>well, first, you would need a hexdump, not a text output
11:42<supermop_pdx>what's it called FLHerne ?
11:42<FLHerne>supermop_pdx: 'Casual UK-ish server'
11:43*andythenorth wonders how to get hexdump out of git show
11:44<Eddi|zuHause>"git show | hexdump"? :p
11:44<Eddi|zuHause>(i usually use "hexdump -C")
11:44<andythenorth>that works
11:45<andythenorth>not sure if it's what's needed
11:45<Eddi|zuHause>there doesn't seem to be any null bytes in there
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11:47<andythenorth>"<frosch123> but now i patched the script to filter out NUL in commit messages"
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11:48<andythenorth>that's probably somewhere in
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11:51<andythenorth>hmm smalltalk not python :P
11:52<Eddi|zuHause>you're probably better off waiting for frosch?
11:52<andythenorth>realistically yes
11:52<andythenorth>sometimes I lean more by trying for myself
11:52<andythenorth>but it's very slow
11:53<andythenorth>somewhere the python script must be copying strings, and we can presumably inspect the bytes
11:54<Eddi|zuHause>that script has a "plugins_dict['commit_message_filters']"
11:56<andythenorth>oh nice spot
11:56<+glx>wow smalltalk is still used
11:57<+michi_cc>andythenorth: I didn't try if it does anything, but you could try to run "git filter-branch --tree-filter 'true' HEAD" to try to force git to recreate the commit history. It might be smart enough to detect that you don't actually change anything and just do a no op.
11:57<Eddi|zuHause>i haven't seen any docs, but presumably you give it a file that contains a function called "commit_message_filter"
11:58<Eddi|zuHause>unsure on what that function does. probably take a string and return a string
11:58<+michi_cc>Hmm, actually, "git filter-branch --msg-filter 'cat' HEAD" might actually do something.
11:59<Eddi|zuHause>i should get some food now, though
11:59<+michi_cc>Replace HEAD with --all in case you have more than one branch/tag.
12:07<andythenorth>this is evil
12:07<andythenorth>desc = ''.join(desc.split(b'\x00'))
12:07<Eddi|zuHause>there's probably a better way :p
12:11<andythenorth>if anyone wants to improve it
12:11<andythenorth>this is needed for ~all devzone repos that use eints
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12:14<Eddi|zuHause>that output is... questionable
12:14<Eddi|zuHause>there'll be no useful information in that line
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12:27<andythenorth>my import also doesn't have the commit authors correctly
12:27<andythenorth>I won't delete the devzone repo yet :P
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12:50<SUPERLEAF_1995>ok so
12:50<SUPERLEAF_1995>anyone knows where i can get the news.c of openttd 0.1?
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15:26<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: for the author mapping you definitely need frosch
15:26<andythenorth>it's supported in the migration script, but yes, I have decided to wait :)
15:26<andythenorth>this tech tree display is interesting
15:27<andythenorth>might still be better with graphviz though
15:27<Eddi|zuHause>yes, it's supported, but someone must make the list
15:35<andythenorth>I can do that manually, but I am hoping frosch has a better way
15:35<andythenorth>it will be nice when nobody has to restart devzone hg frequently
15:46<+glx>getting the author list should be scriptable
15:47<Eddi|zuHause>well, frosch said he wants to use synergy across all devzone repos...
15:54<nielsm>huh, odd thing just happened to the music, the channel volume for percussion didn't get set properly at the start of a song so the drums were overly loud
15:57<nielsm>and, again??
15:57*nielsm gives the soundcanvas a hard reset
15:58<nielsm>seemed like it was getting slow at processing the GM resets or something maybe
16:08<nielsm>hmm it's still being weird it seems
16:09<andythenorth>now with more colours
16:10<andythenorth>might need force-refresh
16:13<supermop_pdx>FLHerne: take care of our company!
16:13<FLHerne>supermop_pdx: Ok :-)
16:13<FLHerne>I might have to go at some point, though...
16:14<supermop_pdx>gonna grab a save
16:14<andythenorth>server is on 1.9.3 FLHerne ?
16:14*andythenorth wants to look
16:14<FLHerne>andythenorth: Right. It's "Casual UK-ish server"
16:14<FLHerne>We have a bit too much track just now :P
16:14<supermop_pdx>i rec. making those fruit trains express with reefer wagons
16:15*andythenorth gets 1.9.3
16:16<andythenorth>lol all the missing grfs :)
16:16<andythenorth>mostly mine
16:17<@peter1138>If only we had a content distribution system.
16:18<andythenorth>if only we didn't all run unreleased dev versions of everything locally
16:18<andythenorth>probably just me :P
16:18<andythenorth>wow such map, very train :D
16:19<FLHerne>Blame lack of IS for most of the spaghetti :-/
16:19<FLHerne>It's a pity having to duplicate everything because someone else owns the line that goes there
16:20<FLHerne>andythenorth: I keep meaning to ask, are there supposed to be nine different kinds of passenger coach available at the same time...?
16:20<FLHerne>(three of each with identical names but different max speed)
16:20<andythenorth>expiry on or off?
16:21<FLHerne>Er, I thought it was off, but now you ask...
16:21<andythenorth>expiry is off
16:21<andythenorth>lots of buy menu will be the result :)
16:21<andythenorth>I had to make my peace with it, and turn expiry back on
16:21<FLHerne>andythenorth: Yeah, oops
16:22<FLHerne>I remember now, I turned it off because I wanted to look at the Road Hog vehicle roster
16:22<FLHerne>And clearly I forgot to put it back on :-/
16:22<andythenorth>if only there were online docs for grfs :P
16:23<FLHerne>If only anyone ever read the manual ;-)
16:23<nielsm>stop giving me ideas
16:23<nielsm>what about if grfs had an action that produced storybook-like pages
16:24<andythenorth>they have a readme inline? o_O
16:24<nielsm>basically yes
16:24<nielsm>but also with illustrations
16:24<@peter1138>Why is my J3 Cub upside-down?
16:24<nielsm>I think you can place arbitrary sprites in a storybook can't you?
16:24<andythenorth>generally we don't have good enough font rendering for large blocks of text, at least with original pixel font
16:25<Eddi|zuHause>include an e-book reader? :p
16:25<andythenorth>^^ frosch had ideas for grf previews
16:26<andythenorth>rewrite bananas, allow uploading html docs in the tar, but serve them stricly online, not inside OpenTTD
16:26<andythenorth>unpack them when uploaded
16:26<andythenorth>massive malware / infosec tinfoil hat time
16:27<@peter1138>Oh, 24 kt winds, hmm.
16:28<andythenorth>you sailing?
16:28<andythenorth>FLHerne: nice MP server game. Who is IPG?
16:29<FLHerne>andythenorth: Not a clue :P
16:29<andythenorth>nice mixed up freight trains
16:29<FLHerne>It's been good fun
16:29<FLHerne>Deliberately created a map with very few industries
16:30<FLHerne>So you can't just ignore everyone else :P
16:30<andythenorth>I should do a beta of v4 steeltown
16:30<andythenorth>it's bonkers
16:32<andythenorth>I played it a lot, quite addictive
16:32<andythenorth>crashes OpenTTD currently though
16:37<+glx>a grf should not crash openttd
16:37<nielsm>it's due to text handling
16:37<+glx>if it does there's a bug in our source
16:38<nielsm>grf strings can't support enough inserts for 16 cargo types
16:38<nielsm>(I suspect that's what andy is talking about)
16:39<+glx>strings are limited to 20 args
16:41<Eddi|zuHause>1 cargo consumed a silly amount of args, last time we checked
16:47<+glx>hmm maybe we could use a std::map
16:56<+glx>but I need to check how the args are accessed
17:03<+glx>hmm need to think more about it
17:40<FLHerne>nielsm: You're finished?
17:46*andythenorth learning graphviz
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17:55<FLHerne>nielsm: Thanks for playing, it was a game :-)
17:57<+glx>Eddi|zuHause: I had a quick look in GetIndustryString() and indeed it's clearly wrong, it stores all args but finally the strings are wrong anyway
17:57<Eddi|zuHause>glx: last time we determined that the function was completely forgotten in the 16-cargo-patch
17:58<+glx>if there's more than 2 cargos it will use the 2 cargo string with wrong args
18:00<+glx>percent transported will use produced_cargo and last_month_production of the 3rd cargo
18:02<+glx>there should be a way to use substrings
18:03<Eddi|zuHause>i haven't looked at the gui in question, but if we're gonna keep the 20 args limit, then it probably needs a complete rewrite
18:04<+glx>the 20 args limit could be worked around, I think generating a substring for each cargo can reduce the count
18:05<+glx>anyway keeping the string formatted like {ORANGE}{INDUSTRY}{BLACK} ({CARGO_LONG}{RAW_STRING}/{CARGO_LONG}{RAW_STRING}){YELLOW} ({COMMA}%/{COMMA}% transported) is not readable
18:06<andythenorth>alternative approach to tech tree
18:06<+glx>starting openttd to see how it's actually displayed
18:06<andythenorth>very unformatted :P
18:07<andythenorth>graphviz is simpler than I realised btw :D
18:07<andythenorth>it's stupidly easy
18:07<+glx>(for "normal" industries with at most 2 cargo)
18:08<andythenorth>hmm, it's not like the industry directory is fantastically useful :P
18:10<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: graphviz is simple, unless you have some specific layout in mind, and it's not doing what you want
18:11<Eddi|zuHause>otherwise, it's just a list of "a->b"
18:21<andythenorth>I need some rankings
18:21<andythenorth>but I think it supports that
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18:21<+glx>ok now I remember how the industry directory looks like
18:22<+glx>and yeah all cargos with production details will be unreadable
18:23<nielsm>time to replace the industry directory entirely
18:23<qwebirc73586>Hi, any idea why openttd doesn't honor any music volume changes (midi)? I'm on Arch without ext-midi.
18:23<nielsm>(it could use a replacement with better readability, more table-like)
18:23<+glx>qwebirc73586: yes ext-midi doesn't support the function
18:24<qwebirc73586>glx: That's why i explicitly wrote it...
18:24<+glx>oh yeah misread
18:24<nielsm>so what are you using? fluidsynth ought to support volume
18:24<nielsm>ottd using libtimidity?
18:25<qwebirc73586>not sure... i just installed the standard packages and openmsx
18:25<nielsm>libtimidity is not really a maintained output
18:25<qwebirc73586>should i better use fluidsynth?
18:25<+glx>we even droped libtimidity support in current master
18:25<nielsm>fluidsynth is my recommendation :)
18:26<milek7>(working libtimidity is in emscripten PR)
18:26<qwebirc73586>any recommended sf2?
18:26<nielsm>not really, all I've tried were poor
18:27<qwebirc73586>why do you recommend it then? :)
18:27<nielsm>because I worked on it last ;)
18:27<nielsm>and know it works correctly and has volume control support
18:28<qwebirc73586>will try it.. thanks
18:28<nielsm>I just don't like any of the soundfonts I've tried from linux distros' package repositories
18:29<+glx>there's only two options, timidity (which is often ext-midi unless on some specific OS) or fluidsynth
18:32<qwebirc73586>actually i'm not sure which backend is used... i have both installed but there is no ext-midi in my openttd.cfg
18:32<nielsm>try running: openttd -ddriver=1
18:32<nielsm>in a terminal
18:33<nielsm>it should print some debug messages including which music driver is selected
18:33<+glx>usually empty ext-midi is timidity
18:33<+glx>and it's indeed ext-midi :)
18:34<nielsm>the default extmidi commandline is timidity, and if the music driver line in openttd.cfg line is blank and it selects extmidi then there isn't any other driver compiled in
18:34<nielsm>I think extmidi has the lowest priority for autoconfig
18:34<nielsm>apart from null
18:35<qwebirc73586>dbg: [driver] Fluidsynth: sf (null) -- dbg: [driver] Probing music driver 'fluidsynth' failed with error: Could not open any sound font - dbg: [driver] Successfully probed music driver 'extmidi'
18:35<qwebirc73586>it does play music though...
18:35<+glx>yes via timidity
18:35<+glx>and extmidi
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18:35<qwebirc73586>extmidi via autoconfig then i guess...
18:36<qwebirc73586>or autoprobe
18:37<nielsm>you can try in openttd.cfg to set music driver = "fluidsynth:soundfont=/path/to/file.sf2"
18:38<qwebirc73586>i will try a wrapper like this:
18:38<nielsm>that won't give you volume control in-game
18:38<nielsm>extmidi can not support music volume control
18:39*andythenorth finds the hard parts of graphviz :P
18:39<qwebirc73586>but fluidsynth might support gain/volume
18:40<nielsm>maybe, it'll be through an external mixer then
18:40<nielsm>if pulseaudio or alsa gives it a virtual channel of its own you can then adjust volume on
18:40<qwebirc73586>oh wait... your fluidsynth cmd is not ext-midi?
18:40<nielsm>yes that's the builtin fluidsynth library usage
18:41<nielsm>your openttd is clearly compiled with libfluidsynth support
18:41<nielsm>it just can't find a soundfont file
18:41<qwebirc73586>ok.. then i will try that first.
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18:43<nielsm>some time I'm going to write a jackmidi and/or alsamidi driver so you can output to a hardware or virtual port...
18:48<+glx>hmm maybe industry directory could use something like station list
18:52<nielsm>I really wish the industry list was split into columns
18:52<nielsm>town, type, status
18:52<nielsm>at least
18:53<nielsm>and then ideally also had some filtering capability to show only industries of a specific type or handling a specific cargo
18:57<nielsm>qwebirc73586 got silent, maybe it's working? :)
18:57<qwebirc73586>nielsm: yes... its working now. Thx!
18:58<qwebirc73586>just searching for a better soundfont...GM is not the best indeed.
18:59<qwebirc73586>i think i have a 2GB soundfont somewhere they recommended for dosbox...
19:00<+glx>if it's recommended for dosbox it should be ok for openttd too
19:00<nielsm>heh... 2 GB
19:01<nielsm>I wonder how large the samplebank in a 1990's roland soundcanvas is
19:01<nielsm>perhaps 2 or 4 MB ?
19:02<nielsm>(but afaik it also does more than just loop samples, has some kind of generative synthesis mixed in too)
19:05<qwebirc73586>Roland MT32_PCM.ROM is 512KB
19:09*andythenorth wonders what cargos need to be shown
19:09<nielsm>yeah but that's not a general midi synth ;)
19:09<andythenorth>I do sort by highest production at game start
19:11<qwebirc73586>nielsm: but you can probably use it with 'munt' (software synthesizer)
19:11<nielsm>but MT-32 (which munt is an emulator of) is not a GM synth, it won't play the music right
19:12<nielsm>wrong instruments mainly
19:12<Eddi|zuHause>my sound blaster had 512kB soundfont memory IIRC
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19:16<nielsm>that said, while the mt-32 is not general midi, it can do absolutely amazing things when used right
19:16<nielsm>_all_ sound in that video is produced by that midi synth
19:18<nielsm>(what the video doesn't show is the 30 seconds waiting while the synth is being reprogrammed)
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---Logclosed Sun Oct 13 00:00:54 2019