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#openttd IRC Logs for 2019-11-09

---Logopened Sat Nov 09 00:00:33 2019
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04:50<TrueBrain>why oh why does it seems impossible for me to contact a cloud provider ... none of their sales ever replied to me ..
04:50<TrueBrain>this seems to be an endless loop of being ignored .. I wonder if it is personal
04:51<andythenorth>commodity business innit
04:51<andythenorth>I have a famiily member at rackspace
04:52<TrueBrain>take 2 weeks ago, I called Azure Sales .. they promised a reply within 3 to 5 days .. that was 10 days ago
04:52<TrueBrain>like .. what ... like .. you don't care? what is going on there
04:52<andythenorth>I'm told that Rackspace focus on $1m+ accounts, and try not to get involved with commodity cloud
04:52<andythenorth>not sure about the bigger providers
04:52<andythenorth>the downside of cheap is no service :P
04:52<TrueBrain>yeah ... I am pretty sure a sales person doesn't want to talk to a ~1000 euro a year person
04:53<TrueBrain>waste of their time
04:53<TrueBrain>but the company should force that, as it is really bad for your company if you don't reply at all
04:53<andythenorth>_1
04:53<andythenorth>+1
04:53<TrueBrain>as that basically means I want nothing to do with you, as a cloud provider :P
04:53<andythenorth>well if you're bored, there's always the README :P https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7807
04:54<TrueBrain>bored is currently not the state of mind :)
04:54<andythenorth>hungover is mine
04:54<TrueBrain>but I do have a migration that should be done before the end of the year tbfh, and DigitalOcean can't do what we are used to do :P
04:54<TrueBrain>I also need to find a way to have better mail hosting tbh
04:54<TrueBrain>as the spam is really really annoying
04:54<andythenorth>do we need mail? :P
04:55<TrueBrain>at least 1 mailbox for info@, yes
04:55<TrueBrain>I wonder if I can use Exchange Online Plan 1 for that, and just forward all the other addresses
04:55*andythenorth is so out of the loop on email
04:55<TrueBrain>same ..
04:55<TrueBrain>I just know it is expensive as fuck
04:55<TrueBrain>would cost 60 euro a month to host an email for all devs :P
04:57<andythenorth>ouch
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05:16<TrueBrain>https://help.github.com/en/github/supporting-the-open-source-community-with-github-sponsors/sponsoring-a-developer <- might be a nice to use this instead of our current Donate page?
05:19<andythenorth>planetmaker: did you have access to coop donations?
05:19<andythenorth>I thought I had a recurring paypal for sponsoring coop, but no record in paypal :P
05:23<TrueBrain>glx is going to like this: GitHub Actions now support caching :)
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07:20<andythenorth>quiet eh?
07:21<TrueBrain>I blame LordAro
07:22<@LordAro>i'm making lunch
07:22<TrueBrain>make me some too plz
07:23<TrueBrain>I wonder when my Google Stadia ships ..
07:23<TrueBrain>they are not really communicating about that
07:24<TrueBrain>I have to read in the news about launchdates etc
07:25<TrueBrain>order says it should be here before the 25th .. we shall see :)
07:28<milek7>google gamepad?
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07:50<andythenorth>I broke all my newgrfs :)
07:51<andythenorth>and until some PRs move, I'm not writing any more docs :P
07:51<andythenorth>if anyone enjoys 'git describe', I could unbreak my newgrfs with help :P
07:58<frosch123>https://techcultivation.org/ <- i learnt this week about this one
07:59<frosch123>is the ottd foundation thingie still a thing?
08:02<TrueBrain>the diversity in their team is not very high :P
08:03<TrueBrain>mostly we need a legal entity to battle stores .. like getting on Steam, booting people from Microsoft Store that ask money for this free product, etc :P Not sure they can help with that .. their site is not really .. clear what they do :D
08:04<frosch123>isn't that covered by "asset stewardship"?
08:04<TrueBrain>possibly; like I said, they are not really clear in what they do :D
08:05<TrueBrain>just some vague words
08:05<frosch123>anyway, are we serious enough to ask them?
08:05<TrueBrain>"We are ready for your project if you need help with grants and contracts."
08:05<frosch123>i learned about them from a lightning talk from cccamp, so not much more info there :)
08:06<TrueBrain>I simply can't find enough information to know what it is they really do :)
08:08<TrueBrain>but yeah, ask everyone how we should setup a legal entity of some sorts to both cover our ass, don't tie it to a single individual, and can still do stuff with like Steam, etc.
08:08<TrueBrain>btw, today I asked AWS in their open source activation promotional credits, if we can have some, to seriously look into AWS
08:09<frosch123>https://youtu.be/5F39sWoICqo?t=7618 <- that's the 5 minute talk
08:09<frosch123>hmm, bbbl
08:15<TrueBrain>so they are the legal entity, on which you can piggyback, so to say
08:15<TrueBrain>not sure that would help in our case
08:15<TrueBrain>but droppnig them an email to ask, never hurts I guess?
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10:16<andythenorth>how dangerous are shell commands? :P
10:16<TrueBrain>curl .. | sudo bash -
10:16<TrueBrain>nothing wrong with that
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10:17<andythenorth>I need the equivalent results of this, but for git not hg https://github.com/andythenorth/iron-horse/blob/master/bin/hg-info
10:17<andythenorth>I understand 60% of Alberth's code
10:17<andythenorth>I could just write my own git version from scratch, but I worry I do danger
10:17<TrueBrain>holy crap, what does that do?! :o
10:17<andythenorth>and if I port the hg to git with no clue, I could just leave danger or broken
10:18<andythenorth>it gets some rev stuff that the newgrf spec demands
10:18<TrueBrain>*shrug*
10:18<andythenorth>tbh, I never really understand how grfs are versioned
10:18<TrueBrain>pretty sure nobody can help you approaching this problem from this end
10:18<TrueBrain>possibly better to indicate what you want solved
10:18<TrueBrain>instead of how someone else solved it :P
10:19<andythenorth>probly, for most of what I need git rev-list --count master
10:19<andythenorth>which I can call with subprocess :P
10:19<TrueBrain>so do that already :P
10:19<TrueBrain>you have been on this for what, 4 months now? :P
10:19<andythenorth>longer
10:20<andythenorth>I keep avoiding it
10:20<andythenorth>this one is such a reliable solution :P https://github.com/andythenorth/firs/blob/master/bin/git-info
10:21<TrueBrain>no no, that is all wrong
10:21<TrueBrain>2 2 2 2 2
10:21<TrueBrain>much better
10:22<andythenorth>math.random()
10:22<andythenorth>let's hide from this and do docs instead
10:22<andythenorth>why is my README edit awful?
10:22*andythenorth looks
10:23<andythenorth>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7807
10:23<andythenorth>what's the savegame policy? 100% guarantee?
10:23<TrueBrain>100% best effort, accepting fixes in PRs :P
10:24<TrueBrain>right, new MasterServer and Updater should work
10:24<TrueBrain>I only need a database, and a webfrontend
10:24<TrueBrain>guess I should make an interface for the database, so I can have an in-memory to test
10:24<TrueBrain>sounds sane
10:25<andythenorth>hmm that review is outdated
10:25<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #7807: Doc: revised README to be more helpful to casual GitHub visitors https://git.io/JeEde
10:28<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #7807: Doc: revised README to be more helpful to casual GitHub visitors https://git.io/JeEde
10:29<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #7807: Doc: revised README to be more helpful to casual GitHub visitors https://git.io/JeEde
10:30<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #7807: Doc: revised README to be more helpful to casual GitHub visitors https://git.io/JeVKm
10:32<andythenorth>eh, all reviews somehow responded to :P
10:32<andythenorth>result https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/f904bd039dfac82bfb820189e0fbddc7958795ee/README.md
10:33<andythenorth>ship it, there is minimal future debt in documentation, it's not code
10:33<andythenorth>docs debt tends to carry the cost right now, any improvement is usually a win
10:33<andythenorth>perfection is not essential
10:36<andythenorth>LordAro suspiciously absent
10:36*andythenorth wonders about flooding
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10:45<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #7807: Doc: revised README to be more helpful to casual GitHub visitors https://git.io/JeVKB
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10:53<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #7807: Doc: revised README to be more helpful to casual GitHub visitors https://git.io/JeEde
10:53<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #7807: Doc: revised README to be more helpful to casual GitHub visitors https://git.io/JeVKX
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11:24<andythenorth>probably done then :P ^
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11:44<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc approved pull request #7807: Doc: revised README to be more helpful to casual GitHub visitors https://git.io/JeV6D
11:50<@LordAro>andythenorth: michi_cc: am in the middle of upgrading my VPS right now, would like to have a read through before merging
11:50<@LordAro>if you can wait
11:50<@LordAro>andythenorth: no flooding here, just very rainy
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12:14<Borg>hooooooi
12:14<Borg>can anyone explain me (basically) how network stuff works here?
12:14<Borg>does server do pathfinding and inform client about result?
12:15<Borg>so if I do pathfinder changes (server side only).. all will still works?
12:19<frosch123>no, the gamestate is update deterministically on all clients
12:19<frosch123>the network only transmit player actions
12:19<frosch123>you can read some more in docs/desyncs.md or similar
12:19<Borg>damn... DAMN...
12:20<frosch123>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/docs/desync.md#11-openttd-multiplayer-architecture
12:20<Borg>thx, got clone locally
12:20<Borg>yep.. seens it..
12:21<Borg>good bye my more determinstic pathfinder ;(
12:23<LordAro>"more deterministic"
12:23<LordAro>it's already very deterministic
12:23<Borg>so, for now.. the only way to control penalty.. is to add PBS back signal...
12:23<Borg>LordAro: from with standpoint? state machine? or user? :)
12:24<Borg>first yes.. second. not really
12:24<Borg>I still struggle to understand.. why adding single block signal (oneway) changes the pathfinder behavior...
12:25<Borg>its green.. no penalty.. yet.. trains preffer that path..
12:25<LordAro>Borg: the former. anything that isn't results in a desync (linked above)
12:25<Borg>if I remove it.. path is no longer preffered
12:26<Borg>okey... I think I understand now..
12:26<+glx>line "value" changes when you add/remove signals
12:26<Borg>I forgot to calculate whole path path to the desination.. and look_ahead
12:28<Borg>okey... seems I need to give up my pride of not using back PBS signals as path influencers.. they seems to be best
12:28<Borg>and completly no CPU penalty..
12:29<Borg>too bad there is no "dummy" cost sign.. or sth ;)
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14:56<andythenorth>is cat?
15:04<Eddi|zuHause>miau.
15:15<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/nml] glx22 updated pull request #55: Codechange: use pyinstaller to generate standalone executable https://git.io/JeaNS
15:16<+glx>hmm I could also my fix for regression on windows, and call the PR "Windows related stuff"
15:16<+glx>*also include
15:22<andythenorth>yes?
15:23<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/nml] glx22 updated pull request #55: Codechange: use pyinstaller to generate standalone executable https://git.io/JeaNS
15:28<+glx>btw not only cx_freeze was not doing what we expected, it also prevented using venv
15:29<LordAro>glx: heh
15:30<+glx>with the original setup.py it's impossible to do "pip install -e ." in venv, it always wants to install globally
15:30<+glx>--user also fails
15:30<+glx>without cx_freeze it just works
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15:50<andythenorth>what else needs done before it's merged?
15:50<andythenorth>nml is not savegame critical
15:50<andythenorth>if we broke something, we just fix and release again
15:51<+glx>for me it's usable
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15:52<+glx>I have https://github.com/glx22/nml/compare/pyinstaller...glx22:actions on top of it (output visible on https://github.com/glx22/nml/commit/08162aaa58b42f1cf2b4e9ff7e05d8b66621eadd/checks?check_suite_id=303535404)
15:53<andythenorth>I'll just pull it and test
15:53<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/nml] LordAro closed issue #39: (AttributeError) "module 'PIL.Image' has no attribute 'VERSION'". https://git.io/fjEFl
15:53<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/nml] LordAro merged pull request #54: Fix #39: Add compatibility with >=pillow-7.0.0 https://git.io/Je0t3
15:54<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/nml] LordAro merged pull request #55: Codechange: use pyinstaller to generate standalone executable (and other mostly windows related changes) https://git.io/JeaNS
15:54<LordAro>eh.
15:54<LordAro>we can fix it in post
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15:54<+glx>actions says it works
15:54<andythenorth>that phrase was banned on my film shoots LordAro :P
15:54<+glx>so it should work you everyone
15:54<andythenorth>also there's no cmd-z undo when you break a camera :P
15:57<andythenorth>pillow fails to build for me
15:57<andythenorth>using python setup.py install
15:57<andythenorth>I don't usually bother with setup.py
15:58<andythenorth>it's zlib missing headers bollocks, might be mac specific, Apple tend to break headers
15:58<andythenorth>pillow builds fine from pip install
16:01<andythenorth>so what's left for this? https://github.com/OpenTTD/nml/issues/42
16:03<andythenorth>any updates for README? https://github.com/OpenTTD/nml/blob/master/README.md
16:05<+glx><andythenorth> it's zlib missing headers bollocks, might be mac specific, Apple tend to break headers <-- seems to be local to your machine
16:06<andythenorth>yes
16:06<andythenorth>it happens often
16:06<andythenorth>somehow, with whatever magic, pip has the path to the headers
16:06<andythenorth>so pip pillow is fine
16:07<+glx>because https://github.com/glx22/nml/runs/295911648 has no issue, but it's also using pip
16:08<+glx>well it's a hidden "setup.py develop"
16:09<+glx>and that's magically builds the extension too
16:12<andythenorth>I'm not going to worry about setup.py failing on mac
16:12<andythenorth>there's a solution, and if other people report it...meh
16:13<+glx>the action tells me it works on mac anyway
16:15<andythenorth>oh you have a mac Azure build?
16:15<andythenorth>neat
16:16<andythenorth>multiple pythons also
16:16<andythenorth>this is good :)
16:16<andythenorth>so we just need a docs update (windows binary instructions, update README)
16:16<andythenorth>then a release
16:17<frosch123>are the artefacts of the azure build actually stored anywhere?
16:17<+glx>build standalone, and artifacts are just temporary in this workflow
16:17<+glx>I just tested stuff
16:18<+glx>the idea would be to write a release workflow
16:18<+glx>generating/publishing on pypi
16:19<+glx>and building the standalone windows exe and publish in the github tag
16:20<+glx>or wherever it must go
16:20<andythenorth>I had azure pushing to S3 bucket for grf
16:20<frosch123>hmm, we never had automatic publish on pypi :)
16:21<andythenorth>we need some generic place to publish artefacts
16:45<LordAro>could just use the github releases page
16:52<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/nml] glx22 opened pull request #56: Add: regression workflow for PR and push to master https://git.io/JeVDh
16:56<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/nml] matthijskooijman commented on pull request #54: Fix #39: Add compatibility with >=pillow-7.0.0 https://git.io/JeVyv
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17:33<TrueBrain>glx: did you see GitHub Actions now support caching? :D
17:33<+glx>yes
17:33<TrueBrain>means we can finally cache shit like venvs etc :)
17:33<TrueBrain>makes builds so much faster!
17:33<andythenorth>LordAro: README merge? o_O
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18:16<Eddi|zuHause>we should make a new rule: if you bug developers about merging your PR, it gets rejected :p
18:17<+glx>lol
18:34<LordAro>Eddi|zuHause: historically, that is the only way to get something merged :p
18:34<Eddi|zuHause>LordAro: i don't see the problem :p
18:36<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/nml] ConiKost commented on pull request #54: Fix #39: Add compatibility with >=pillow-7.0.0 https://git.io/JeV9J
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19:15<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/nml] matthijskooijman commented on pull request #54: Fix #39: Add compatibility with >=pillow-7.0.0 https://git.io/JeV92
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---Logclosed Sun Nov 10 00:00:35 2019