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#openttd IRC Logs for 2020-01-15

---Logopened Wed Jan 15 00:00:09 2020
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02:04<Pikka>o/
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02:04<Pikka>was it something I said?
02:05<@peter1138>o
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02:21<andythenorth>moin
02:22<andythenorth>oh it's 1968 again in my game
02:23<Pikka>how did that happen?
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02:24<andythenorth>I used the built in daylength feature
02:24<andythenorth>ctrl-alt-c
02:26<Pikka>fancy
02:26<andythenorth>yup
02:26<Pikka>maybe we should get rid of the "funny" description on that window
02:26<Pikka>it seems to upset some people
02:27<andythenorth>it does
02:27<andythenorth>it inhibits sandbox play
02:35<Pikka>oop, gotta go climb a wall!
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03:01<DorpsGek_III_>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7937: Build on competitor canal https://git.io/JvUIQ
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04:11<@peter1138>I... accidentally went to sleep with my client connected to my server ;(
04:19<@planetmaker>so... are now many little clients being spawned?
04:54<@peter1138>Um
04:54<@peter1138>No but it's 2035 or something instead of late 90s :p
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07:34<Pikka>well
07:38<@peter1138>That's a hole.
07:43<andythenorth>daylength :P
07:51*LordAro smacks andythenorth
07:51<andythenorth>is it fractal?
07:52*andythenorth reading about transfer leg profits
07:52<andythenorth>JGR
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08:23<andythenorth>I should turn breakdowns on eh
08:37<@peter1138>I saladed.
08:37<@peter1138>But yes, breakdowns.
08:38<@peter1138>Also I'm using default ships in 2040s... I guess breakdowns would be bad.
08:39<andythenorth>breakdowns mess with my buzz :P
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09:07<Samu>what do you think of
09:07<Samu>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7937
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09:25<Samu>oh snap, found NULL's on my code
09:25<Samu>it's old code :8
09:28<andythenorth>oops it's 1973 in my game
09:29*andythenorth turns it back to 1971
09:30<Pikka>why not 1968?
09:31<andythenorth>well
09:31<andythenorth>time has to advance I guess :)
09:31<andythenorth>otherwise I'll never get any super OP trains
09:33*andythenorth has a maths puzzle
09:34<andythenorth>2 trains, both carry 484t cargo
09:34<andythenorth>one weighs 361t empty and 484t loaded
09:34<andythenorth>845t loaded *
09:34<andythenorth>@calc 361 + 484
09:34<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: 845
09:35<andythenorth>the other weights 352t empty and 646t loaded
09:35<andythenorth>@calc 352 + 646
09:35<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: 998
09:35<andythenorth>oof I really needed to sleep
09:35<andythenorth>@calc 352 + 484
09:35<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: 836
09:36<andythenorth>anyway, something is wrong with the total weight of the 2nd train, but I had no sleep, and don't trust my eyes :P
09:36<andythenorth>self-inflicted, stayed up too late playing openttd
09:36<@planetmaker>ask your kids :)
09:44<DorpsGek_III_>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7937: Build on competitor canal https://git.io/JvUIQ
09:49<Samu>well, is it useful? #7937?
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09:50<DorpsGek_III_>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z opened pull request #7938: Feature: Setting for a year that repeats forever https://git.io/JvU08
09:50<Eddi|zuHause>(untested)
09:52<andythenorth>groundhog year
09:52<Eddi|zuHause>that is the name of the branch :)
09:52<andythenorth>I was wondering what happens if we repeat months or days
09:52<andythenorth>I didn't read industry production code yet though
09:53<Eddi|zuHause>oh, compile failed
09:53<andythenorth>I think I'd want a groundhog threshold
09:53<andythenorth>i.e. repeat n times
09:53<andythenorth>groundhog count
09:53<Eddi|zuHause>i forgot a thing adding the setting, apparently
09:53<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: just use the date cheat to move on
09:54<andythenorth>so daylength is solved
09:54<andythenorth>and I've solved cdist by turning town growth to minimal
09:54<andythenorth>did we ever stop towns using magic bulldozer to delete things
09:54<andythenorth>cos magic bulldozer solves most of sandbox mode
09:54<Eddi|zuHause>no idea
09:54<Samu>ah, im not the only one that makes non descript PRs
09:55<andythenorth>just need to solve town ratings, game is finished
09:55<Eddi|zuHause>i need to go out shopping, i was like a minute too late yesterday
09:55<andythenorth>ouch
09:57<DorpsGek_III_>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z updated pull request #7938: Feature: Setting for a year that repeats forever https://git.io/JvU08
09:58<Eddi|zuHause>(still untested)
10:02<Samu>are these errors normal? https://pastebin.com/raw/ddLJvhfU
10:02<Samu>it still builds, but i get so many errors along the way
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10:12<DorpsGek_III_>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z updated pull request #7938: Feature: Setting for a year that repeats forever https://git.io/JvU08
10:12<Eddi|zuHause>(3rd time is the charm?)
10:12<andythenorth>shops Eddi|zuHause :P
10:12<andythenorth>don't want you going hungry
10:13<Eddi|zuHause>ok, ok...
10:13<Samu>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmS9RWcJok0 - is this a masterpiece or not really?
10:13<Eddi|zuHause>i wouldn't be going hungry, but i'm out of sugary drinks
10:14<Samu>music video, no actual video though
10:14<FLHerne>Samu: I like the idea of permanent rivers
10:16<Samu>:)
10:16<Samu>if only rivers were actually useful
10:16<Samu>but yeah
10:16<Eddi|zuHause>the next opportunity to go shopping while on the way to somewhere would be in 2 days
10:16<Samu>my lock friendly rivers patch was rejected
10:16<Samu>would combine well with perma rivers
10:19<DorpsGek_III_>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7937: Build on competitor canal https://git.io/JvUIQ
10:19<Samu>cleaning up stuff that didn't belong to this patch
10:20<Samu>you know me, I always pack everything in a single commit
10:20<Samu>i'm deconstructing it
10:21<Samu>a year that repeats forever is a "good idea"
10:22<Samu>if it works as expected
10:27<Samu>i've been wanting to test AIs in a certain era
10:27<Samu>1975 era, hoping it would last forever 1975
10:27<Samu>for example, i think that patch would come useful
10:32<Samu>i think i forgot documenting object tiles built on canals build on rivers
10:32<Samu>yep, on landscape_grid
10:32<Samu>damn me
10:36<DorpsGek_III_>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7937: Build on competitor canal https://git.io/JvUIQ
10:37<Samu>you know what? locks should be waypoints
10:37<Samu>but that's for another day
10:46<@planetmaker>Why should they be waypoints?
10:46<@planetmaker>We have buoys as waypoints for water vessels
10:46<@planetmaker>when I go from A to B, it doesn't matter whether I use the Eastern or the Western lock in the channel. I use whichever opens first
10:51<Samu>ok
10:51<Samu>[img]https://i.imgur.com/vv4TTg0.png[/img] - my changes in red
10:52<Samu>red squares
10:52<Samu>at m6 it stores canal owners
10:52<Samu>on those 4 bits
10:53<Samu>should have included shipdepot in the square, but meh...
10:53<Samu>at m8 it stores whether the canal was built on a river
10:56<Samu>i still don't understand what yellow ~ is for
10:57<Samu>~ - bit is accessed, but does not really have a meaning (e.g. owner of clear land is always OWNER_NONE)
10:58<Samu>hmm.... "k"
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11:59<Samu>nobody says anything?
12:04<andythenorth>daytime traffic is low in irc Samu
12:04<andythenorth>mostly me and you
12:04<andythenorth>and lunch chat
12:04<andythenorth>patience grasshopper
12:15<Samu>assert(depth < WATER_DEPTH_MAX); while testing #7924
12:15<Samu>15 < 15
12:15<Samu>heh
12:19<Eddi|zuHause>so. i actually was shopping!
12:20<andythenorth>!
12:33<DorpsGek_III_>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SJang1 commented on issue #7830: Load font from openttd config file directory, not from working directory. https://git.io/JewMG
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12:46<Samu>suddenly "savegame upgrade" pops everywhere
12:46<DorpsGek_III_>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh merged pull request #7791: GS method to control engine availability for a specific company https://git.io/JeREi
12:46<nielsm>yeah :)
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13:53<DorpsGek_III_>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #7938: Feature: Setting for a year that repeats forever https://git.io/JvUws
13:55<TrueBrain>I am heavily disappointed only in a comment "groundhog" is mentioned. I vote to rename the variable to GROUNDHOG_YEAR
13:57<frosch123>i never saw that movie
13:57<TrueBrain>:o :o :o
13:57<TrueBrain>I .... am not sure ... how to deal with this
13:59<nielsm>https://0x0.st/zhMD.jpg
13:59<TrueBrain>nice!
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14:00<nielsm>but some of the sprites are slightly broken (wrong offset) so it looks wrong :P https://0x0.st/zhMd.png
14:00<frosch123>hmm, the shading stuff did not work with palette animation, did it?
14:01<frosch123>oh, newgrf water. does it work the same as rivers and canals?
14:02<nielsm>no, I figured doing it with something callback-based would be bad for something that exists in as large quantities as flat water
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14:02<nielsm>and it may as well just be a static table
14:02<nielsm>but there is a new variable for the river/canals callbacks to check depth of the current tile
14:03<nielsm>so they can do things
14:03<frosch123>he, at some point we wanted to do newlandscape :p
14:03<nielsm>that's RCT-style landscape right?
14:04<frosch123>no, callback based ground tiles
14:04<nielsm>:o
14:04<frosch123>you know, more than just water tiles :)
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14:05<crazystacy>hello
14:05<frosch123>it was about adding random bits, doodads, fences, hedges, ...
14:05<crazystacy>i always used to full load everything, and specifically put "unload". but now i don't set anything, just goto A, goto B (let's say coal). but i'm not sure what is most efficient
14:05<crazystacy>let's say it never manages to get a full load, then it's just going back and forth. or if the journey is extremely long. if i load 20% and travel for ages, that can't be good
14:06<crazystacy>i was wondering if anyone had some maths on it
14:06<frosch123>you almost never want to explicitly set "unload"
14:06<crazystacy>i used to think so
14:06<crazystacy>it saved my finger a lot of clickin
14:06<frosch123>the time waiting at the station is included in the delivery speed
14:07<frosch123>so you want the wait-for-full-load not be a significant percentage of the travel time
14:07<frosch123>also there is a intermediate between "full load" and "load any". you can timetable the loading time to "5 days" or similar
14:07<frosch123>(but don't timetable travel times, only loading times)
14:08<crazystacy>i can time table loading? that's ice
14:08<crazystacy>i didn't get as far as timetables yet
14:09<crazystacy>what happens if you timetable travel times? it gives up and skips?
14:09<frosch123>well, it's said to be the only useful application of timetables
14:09<crazystacy>ah
14:09<frosch123>timetabling travel times causes many issues. noone admits to play with that :)
14:09<crazystacy>LOL
14:12<DorpsGek_III_>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Phx01 commented on issue #7920: Purchase land tool lacks by-area https://git.io/JveBj
14:13*_dp_ never knew timetables had a useful application
14:13<_dp_>well, I guess, I don't considered partial load to be a useful application either :p
14:14<nielsm>interesting, TGP actually did make a steep "cliff" underwater here: https://0x0.st/zhur.jpg
14:15<nielsm>depth 12 to 8
14:15<frosch123>tgp does not know about max slopes
14:15<nielsm>yeah, I know it needs smoothing
14:17<nielsm>except that deepwater does not require smooth gradients, so it's fine here
14:19<frosch123>sell it as realism
14:19<frosch123>does it rerandomise the depth when oilrigs shut down?
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14:21<nielsm>does a circular tile search for nearby water tiles and grabs a depth from that
14:22<frosch123>i was thinking of the coal mine disaster
14:23<andythenorth>we flooding coal mines?
14:23*andythenorth should logs :P
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14:25<frosch123>some firs industries could leave river/lake tiles behind after they close down
14:26<frosch123>except firs industries do not close down, or something :p
14:26<Samu>wow, how do u get graphics working there?
14:26<nielsm>another: https://0x0.st/zhuK.jpg
14:27<Samu>all i get is a ? for every water tile
14:27<nielsm>you need a newgrf with water depth sprites
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14:29<DorpsGek_III_>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7924: Feature: Water tiles have a depth https://git.io/JvfWw
14:30<nielsm>here's two water depth newgrfs: https://0x0.st/zhub.zip
14:31<Samu>wow :)
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14:32<Samu>thx, gonna test
14:33<andythenorth>is someone setting up an MP game then? o_O
14:33<andythenorth>so we can find out what's broken in 1.10
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14:33<DorpsGek_III_>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7924: Feature: Water tiles have a depth https://git.io/JvUrC
14:36<andythenorth>what does clearing water even mean with deep depths? :P
14:36<andythenorth>lots of long discussion there about a possible non thing
14:37<crazystacy>will water depth be added to the game?
14:37<frosch123>andythenorth: https://orange.handelsblatt.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/plastik-ozean-760x428.jpg <- clearing water
14:37<frosch123>maybe that should be a firs industry, producing plastic
14:38<andythenorth>is that the dutch guy?
14:38<nielsm>andythenorth: https://0x0.st/zhum.png
14:38<nielsm>that's without basecosts mod, without inflation, and at low construction costs :)
14:38<andythenorth>nielsm: and if I canalise it?
14:38<crazystacy>nice
14:39<nielsm>that still costs over a million per tile :)
14:39<frosch123>andythenorth: it's some marketing sketch from some 2017 startup. no idea whether that startup still exists
14:39<crazystacy>now they won't grief my boats anymore :D
14:39<nielsm>canals have a max depth of 3 (right now) and converting a deeper tile to canal will require demolishing the water and rebuilding it as canal
14:39<crazystacy>well it's a much nicer startup than Juicero that's for sure
14:40<crazystacy>so there will be some sort of canal tanker? so that i can ferry my oil tanker oil up the river
14:40<andythenorth>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boyan_Slat frosch123
14:41<nielsm>right now there are no restrictions on how deep or shallow water any boat can sail on
14:41<supermop_work>BUT MY GALLEY WILL SINK
14:41<crazystacy>is it "sail" if it's an oil tanker? :P
14:41<nielsm>all ships can sail on canals and rivers, as long as there are locks built for every elevation change
14:42<andythenorth>oof locks
14:42<nielsm>ships sail even when they have combustion engines :P
14:42<crazystacy>how much sail would a sailboat sail if a sailboat didn't have sails?
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14:42<nielsm>also wow debug build performance is terrible with 32bpp sprites
14:43<nielsm>but only when the game is unpaused
14:43<nielsm>ah, full animation
14:43<crazystacy>i'm trying to manually call NetworkClientConnectGame from the code, but it crashes
14:43<crazystacy>and sometimes it does work O_o
14:44<crazystacy>by manually i mean directly as opposed to through the existing methods like console or gui
14:45<crazystacy>- and the debug output is not meaningful :/
14:45<andythenorth>nielsm: full animation is over
14:45<andythenorth>we should possibly remove it?
14:46<nielsm>choices: build this bridge https://0x0.st/zhuQ.jpg - or build around the bay - or spend 2 or 4 million on making a series of shorter bridges spanning
14:46<andythenorth>canal cheat of course
14:46<nielsm>(making the islands costs that much)
14:46<andythenorth>build canals, demolish the inner part
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14:46<nielsm>building canals over the deep water still costs the water clearing cost
14:47<nielsm>and demolishing deep canals is still expensive
14:47<andythenorth>no hax :(
14:47<andythenorth>denied
14:47<crazystacy>clear water = purify the ocean at that exact spot
14:47<crazystacy>57 000 is cheap
14:48<nielsm>3x3 tiles of canals: https://0x0.st/zhu_.png
14:48<crazystacy>that looks like a meme waiting to happen
14:48<crazystacy>it just needs a half-transparent face of a crying man in the corner
14:49<andythenorth>reddit will love it
14:50<frosch123>andythenorth: it's only osx that fails with animation, isn't it?
14:50<andythenorth>probably
14:50<andythenorth>there are other reports of slow with no final cause
14:51<nielsm>32bpp sprites with full animation is also stupid slow on win32 in debug builds, I just discovered, but that's not an issue in itself
14:51<nielsm>(it's a debug build)
14:51<andythenorth>I tried to find the docs for 'not a debug build'
14:52<andythenorth>but I couldn't figure it out
14:52<andythenorth>I even read the build farm stuff on GH, but no light shone
14:52<nielsm>-O2 or -O3 in the CXXFLAGS
14:52<andythenorth>my local compile is ~unusable
14:53<andythenorth>so are these configure flags or make flags?
14:53*andythenorth is clueless sorry
14:54<milek7_>configure
14:54<milek7_>--enable-debug[=LVL] enable debug-mode (LVL=[0123], 0 is release)
14:55*andythenorth tests
14:56<nielsm>is "water_clearing_cost_power" a good setting name?
14:56<nielsm>depth raised to the n'th power as multiplier for clearing cost
14:57<nielsm>n=0, same clearing cost for any depth, n=1 clearing cost is linear dependency on depth, n=2 clearing cost is squared dependency on depth
14:58<Samu>oh, even toyland water is dark too
14:58<frosch123>water_clearing_cost_exponent
14:58<crazystacy>what difference does --enable-debug=[level] do in configure?
14:58<crazystacy>i set it to 1 and 2 and didn't notice any difference. 3 made my laptop lag to death during building
14:58<crazystacy>i mean it's not the same as openttd -d 1/2/3 right?
14:58<milek7_>water_clearing_cost_exponent?
14:58<nielsm>yeah that's better
14:59<crazystacy>-d [lvl] is for debug logging?
14:59<frosch123>crazystacy: >0 enables debug symbols, higher values disable optimisations
14:59<crazystacy>ok
14:59<andythenorth>so yeah, the official binary runs my savegame stably at 1.02x
14:59<andythenorth>my local build fluctuates same savegame, same date, same map position 0.9-0.95x
15:00<andythenorth>the local build falls on it's knees further and faster as well
15:00<andythenorth>when I go to a busy area of map
15:00<andythenorth>I gave it ./configure --enable-debug=0
15:01<milek7_>it's default anyway
15:01<andythenorth>so something in my libs, or compiler or something is fucked
15:01<DorpsGek_III_>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Phx01 opened issue #7939: Feature Request: Moving/Relocating/Offsetting (Certain) Industries https://git.io/JvUr7
15:01<andythenorth>this will be fun to diagnose :(
15:01<frosch123>andythenorth: i think stable builds add --disable-assert
15:02<nielsm>what setting value names? "original/expensive/very much expensiver"?
15:02<nielsm>or just boring "original/linear/square"?
15:03<crazystacy>"troll/hardmode/avoid ocean"
15:03<nielsm>or maybe "original"/"cost*depth"/"cost*depth*depth"
15:03<frosch123>Influence of water depths on clearing cost: None/linear/quadratic
15:05<frosch123>every game should contain some math. otherwise people are afraid because their moms forbid them to use ctrl+alt+c
15:05<crazystacy>i don't get it
15:05<andythenorth>pikka suggested rewording the cheat menu
15:05<andythenorth>I suggest 'sandbox mode options'
15:05<andythenorth>or just 'have fun!'
15:06<andythenorth>I am very uninterested in any of the original game's restrictions, after this long playing it :P
15:06<frosch123>crazystacy: there are some people who want a "feature" that is already available via the cheat menu. but they refuse to use the cheat menu and instead request that it should be regular game behaviour
15:07<crazystacy>what feature is that?
15:07<frosch123>somehow they are afraid to use "cheats"
15:07<crazystacy>call it "handicap"
15:07<frosch123>recently it was about fast aircraft having extra crash chance on short runways
15:07<crazystacy>oh i saw that. my whole fleet crashed
15:08<crazystacy>i had the smallest airport with that 1500 km/h plane
15:08<_dp_>just move all cheats to settings :p
15:08<andythenorth>I wanted full sandbox mode, but it turns out to be mostly magic bulldozer
15:08<andythenorth>I wanted daylength, but it turns out to be 'reset the year every year'
15:08<crazystacy>daylength?
15:08<nielsm>magic bulldozer and neutered town councils
15:08<andythenorth>_dp_: any idea if magic bulldozer got fixed?
15:09<milek7_>and unlimited money
15:09<andythenorth>it used to be super dangerous to leave on as towns would just delete stuff
15:09<_dp_>andythenorth, you mean for towns? I didn't even know it was broken xD
15:09<frosch123>it was fixed in 0.6
15:09<andythenorth>so towns no longer just destroy arbitrary things? o_O
15:09<crazystacy>that sounds mad
15:09<andythenorth>I have been turning it off in fear
15:09<andythenorth>and then on again
15:09<crazystacy>tbh cities should be decimated
15:09<frosch123>the fix was part of one of my first patches, a side effect of terraform under infrastructure
15:10<crazystacy>make way for the coal
15:10<andythenorth>if we can just nerf local authority, sandbox mode is done
15:10<frosch123>andythenorth: so the issue has been fixed for longer than it ever was a thing :)
15:10<crazystacy>i want a grf which changes passengers to meatbags and disables town councils
15:10<crazystacy>no more humans
15:10<frosch123>issue for 4 years, fixed for 12 years :)
15:11<andythenorth>this is how long rumours persist :P
15:11<andythenorth>bad half-life :P
15:11<andythenorth>well ./configure --enable-debug=0 --disable-assert is running at 0.88x
15:11<andythenorth>this is lolz :)
15:11<milek7_>"Magic bulldozer has some side effects though. As not only you as player gain higher bulldozer rights, also the towns get the ability to remove industries. "
15:11<milek7_>from wiki
15:12<frosch123>just as outdated :)
15:12<frosch123>stuff got removed accidentially by terraforming nearby
15:12<frosch123>but terraforming no longer does that
15:13<nielsm>uh do we have a simple "int power" function?
15:13<nielsm>>_>
15:15<andythenorth>wiki is fixed then?
15:15*andythenorth looks :)
15:15<frosch123>nielsm: unlikely
15:16*andythenorth fixed wiki
15:16<TrueBrain>frosch123: https://docs.dev.openttd.org/ <- is this something you would like to see?
15:16<TrueBrain>any suggestions / additions / changes
15:16<frosch123>nielsm: https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/numeric/math/pow <- apparently the template can do ints
15:16<TrueBrain>(this would be publishes just after a new master release is created)
15:16<andythenorth>TrueBrain: I love it!
15:16<frosch123>TrueBrain: earlier it only said "hello" :)
15:16<TrueBrain>I know :P That is called developing :)
15:16<DorpsGek_III_>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #7936: Fix: [SDL2] sdl driver debug log https://git.io/JvJ7n
15:17<andythenorth>is anything happening to current docs? https://docs.openttd.org/
15:17<TrueBrain>it will do "poef" if I roll this out :P
15:17<andythenorth>or to ask a better question...
15:17<andythenorth>if it changes can you let me know, so I can update this https://wiki.openttd.org/Development
15:17<andythenorth>thanks
15:17<frosch123>we should add a proper front page though
15:17<LordAro>TrueBrain: looks good
15:18<Samu>this water depth stuff is so pretty :)
15:18<LordAro>though it would be nice if the doxygen for the game itself was there
15:18<LordAro>as useless as it may be
15:18<TrueBrain>it really really is useless
15:18<TrueBrain>so if you promise me to make it less useless
15:18<TrueBrain>I am willing to add it :P
15:18<TrueBrain>frosch123: yeah, I was thinking the same .. just not sure how yet
15:19<frosch123>by adding a @mainpage in the source?
15:19<TrueBrain>yeah ... I wish it was that easy
15:19<TrueBrain>but what I was thinking: add a dummy page to the website, and curl it into here
15:19<TrueBrain>that might work
15:19<Samu>currently toying with pathfinder + water depth. I'm trying higher pf costs on deeper depths, but the opposite as well
15:19<frosch123>are we talking about different things?
15:19<frosch123>why does @mainpage not work?
15:19<nielsm>frosch123: it looks like the MS stdlib implementation just calls the C pow() function with doubles
15:19<Samu>lower costs on deeper depths vs higher costs on deeper depths
15:20<LordAro>nielsm: ew
15:20<TrueBrain>frosch123: we are talking about different things I guess; no clue what you mean with @mainpage in that case :)
15:20<andythenorth>it was on my list to try and fix https://www.openttd.org/development.html
15:20<andythenorth>I just didn't fancy the inevitable PR review cycle, and 10 people with 10 ideas who didn't do anything themselves :)
15:21<LordAro>frosch123 is talking about a doxygen frontpage (to replace the equivalent of http://docs.openttd.org/)
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15:21<TrueBrain>ah, doxygen frontpage :)
15:21<LordAro>presumably TrueBrain is thinking of a front page for https://docs.dev.openttd.org/
15:21<TrueBrain>I don't like how https://docs.dev.openttd.org/ looks :P
15:21<andythenorth>it's kinda fine
15:21<andythenorth>just old
15:21<andythenorth>it's not unusable or anything
15:22<LordAro>needs more jquery
15:22<TrueBrain>okay, you guys fix the source doxygen, I will add it to docs :)
15:22<Samu>I can see water depth help "guide" the pathfinder to the correct places
15:23<Samu>I envision it can visit more nodes which are closer to land
15:23<Samu>than searching deep into the ocean
15:24<milek7_>nitpick: it's xhtml served with text/html content-type
15:24<frosch123>do you intentionally not use "nogo" and "noai" in the url, in favour of "xyz-scripting"?
15:24<nielsm>Samu: water depth does not necessarily have anything to do with distance to land
15:24<frosch123>because noone says "-scripting" on gs/ai context :)
15:25<Samu>oh, right :( it's not instant :(
15:25<Samu>it's an over time effect
15:25<nielsm>yes and the current erosion might still be too fast
15:25<TrueBrain>damn, source docs is HUGE :P
15:26<TrueBrain>frosch123: https://www.openttd.org/downloads/openttd-nightlies/latest.html
15:26<TrueBrain>I used the lingo used there
15:26<frosch123>how odd :)
15:26<TrueBrain>and gs is "Game Scripting", so .... :P
15:26<TrueBrain>https://docs.dev.openttd.org/source/index.html
15:26<frosch123>well, "game script"
15:27<nielsm>https://0x0.st/zhuv.png like that?
15:27<TrueBrain>Game API and NoAI API ?
15:27<TrueBrain>(as it is named in Doxygen titles)
15:27<frosch123>the "todo list" is the best part of every doxygen output
15:28<TrueBrain>or how do you refer to noai/nogo these days most often?
15:28<milek7_>something looks off with truetype fonts in ottd
15:28<milek7_>it just looks weird
15:29<+glx>double/quad GUI zoom ?
15:30<TrueBrain>https://docs.dev.openttd.org/noai/index.html https://docs.dev.openttd.org/ai/index.html https://docs.dev.openttd.org/ai-scripting/index.html
15:30<TrueBrain>any preference?
15:30<frosch123>TrueBrain: "AI API" and "Game API" sounds fine
15:30<nielsm>I prefer just "AI" and "GS"
15:30<TrueBrain>(I have to fix the "index.html" part btw, but this needs an Lambda@Edge .. need to read up on that :P)
15:31<frosch123>"ai" and "gs" would match the class prefix
15:31<nielsm>that the features were called "noai" and "nogo" during development is a weird artifact I don't think is important for those urls
15:31<TrueBrain>so ai-api/ and gs-api/ ?
15:31<frosch123>and you do not have to worry about space/dash/underscore in front of api :)
15:31<nielsm>yeah
15:32<frosch123>nielsm: "OpenTTD NoAI API" is the title of the doxygen page :)
15:33<TrueBrain>https://docs.dev.openttd.org/ <- like this?
15:33<TrueBrain>so fix the Doxygen :)
15:33<TrueBrain>it also reads "Game API"
15:33<DorpsGek_III_>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7924: Feature: Water tiles have a depth https://git.io/JvfWw
15:33<frosch123>nielsm: it looks like gcc inlines pow when the exponent is known, otherwise it calls the c function
15:34<frosch123>TrueBrain: urls are fine. i am not sure whether it needs the "docs" front page
15:35<frosch123>the subpages could be linked directly from the website
15:35<TrueBrain>yeah, but people tend to try the root domain too
15:35<TrueBrain>so if it doesn't hurt, it is fine, I guess :)
15:35<nielsm>frosch123: but I want a function that does not invoke floating point
15:35<frosch123>well, the this basic layout is fine
15:35<TrueBrain>basically, we never direct to https://docs.dev.openttd.org/ directly, indeed
15:35<TrueBrain>but always to the subfolders :)
15:36<TrueBrain>I will also redirect noai... to the right folder
15:36<TrueBrain>if it helps, I can also attach "ai.docs.openttd.org" to it?
15:36<TrueBrain>not sure that helps :D
15:36<frosch123>nielsm: "pow(num,2)" is optimised to "mulsd", "pow(num 3)" results in a call
15:37<TrueBrain>I hate it doesn't mention anywhere on what version it is based .. that is just bad
15:37<frosch123>oh wait, it uses the xmm registers
15:39<TrueBrain>I wonder if we can change Doxygen to add the version in the footer ..
15:39<frosch123>TrueBrain: doxygen has a timestamp of the gernation
15:39<frosch123>oh, it doesn't in our layout....
15:40<frosch123>well, i am pretty sure i have seen that, so it should be possible
15:40<TrueBrain>I agree :)
15:41<frosch123>yeah, there is $datetime
15:41<TrueBrain>means we need to make a footer html file, I guess
15:43<TrueBrain>and if we do that, we might as well add the exact OpenTTD version it was build for in there
15:43<frosch123>then you need an additional builtstep
15:43<frosch123>datetime can be added with static source and doxygen
15:44<frosch123>but doxygen does not know git hashes
15:44<TrueBrain>but the docs-builder does
15:44<TrueBrain>and doxygen can use env-variables :)
15:45<TrueBrain>so I think we can simply do both
15:45<TrueBrain>if you disagree that would be best, let me know :)
15:46<Samu>testing extreme penalties that basically just tells ships to walk near coasts
15:46<Samu>it's funny
15:48<DorpsGek_III_>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #7939: Feature Request: Moving/Relocating/Offsetting (Certain) Industries https://git.io/JvUr7
15:48<frosch123>TrueBrain: apparently doxygen has a PROJECT_NUMBER variable for that
15:49<frosch123>though that is set in Doxyfile
15:49<TrueBrain>which can accept env-variables :)
15:49<TrueBrain>so that is fine for me
15:50<frosch123>oh, did not know that
15:50<frosch123>so, then it is probably the intended method to do that
15:51<TrueBrain>lets test that out :)
15:52<Samu>have a gamescript "move" the industry for u
15:52<frosch123>why do we generate a tag file ...
15:53<TrueBrain>bit ugly in the title, the project number .. but .. I guess it is exactly what we need
15:55<TrueBrain>https://pasteboard.co/IQ8cGUg.png
15:56<andythenorth>seems good
15:56<Samu>moving an industry to the left 1 tile
15:56<Samu>how doable is that in code? :o
15:57<nielsm>difficult
15:58<Samu>even if it's a water tower
15:58<nielsm>you need to remove all the industry tiles, then place them again at the new location while doing all checks for being valid at the new location, and if those fail you need to make sure the industry is put back
15:58<DorpsGek_III_>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #7940: Add: [Doxygen] Add the current version of documentation in header https://git.io/JvUoh
15:58<nielsm>yeah town industries are probably worse
15:58<nielsm>since they need to replace houses to build
15:59<Samu>i'd just build a new industry, remove the older one, and call it "moved"
16:00<DorpsGek_III_>[OpenTTD/CompileFarm] TrueBrain opened pull request #41: Add: [release-docs] tell Doxygen about the version we are creating https://git.io/JvUKe
16:01<Samu>i wish there was a way to pathfind from every tile to every tile and tell the success rate
16:01<Samu>just a testing mode
16:02<Samu>1 million search nodes
16:02<Samu>is it enough for 4kx4k maps?
16:03<Wolf01>https://9gag.com/gag/a3RWjzr ha!
16:04<nielsm>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dijkstra%27s_algorithm - implemented in one or more places in OTTD already
16:05<nielsm>(single-source shortest paths algorithm, from a single tile find the shortest path to any other reachable tile)
16:05<nielsm>(and you'd have to repeat it for every source tile you're interested in)
16:05<TrueBrain>okay, I have most of the code ready to put these "docs" in production .. but that is something for another day :)
16:07<nielsm>the A* algorithm implemented for NPF is a modified Dijkstra that uses heuristics to try more likely edges first https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/src/pathfinder/npf/aystar.h
16:07<nielsm>well, A* is single-pair shortest path, it requires a fixed destination too
16:08<Samu>i wonder wether pathfinding could be multi-threaded, because apparently it already waits for the result
16:08<nielsm>it's been a while since I looked at this
16:08<andythenorth>so who's writing the dev blog post then? o_O
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16:18<Samu>looks like it can't
16:18<nielsm>multithreaded pathfinding is problematic
16:19<nielsm>you'll end up doing duplicate work if you try putting multiple threads to work on the same vehicle, and splitting up relatively short jobs like that is usually not efficient either
16:20<nielsm>you can't pathfind multiple land vehicles in parallel, since the path of one can affect the path another one must choose, and then you end up with non-determinism
16:20<nielsm>if you accept locking yourself out of ever having ships depend on each others' paths (like ships avoiding other ships) then you could pathfind multiple ships in parallel
16:21<andythenorth>so daylength 1.5 seems about right
16:21<andythenorth>so 18 months / year
16:21<andythenorth>:P
16:21<Samu>just increase the number of months
16:21<Samu>or the number of days
16:21<Samu>:p
16:22<Samu>january will now have 90 days
16:22<Samu>j/k
16:22<nielsm>you could probably also run pathfinding of all land vehicles in parallel with pathfinding of all ships, i.e. two parallel threads, sine they should never interfere
16:22<andythenorth>switch from RL dates to 'elapsed years'
16:23<Samu>i still don't know how to make threads
16:23<nielsm>but doing that would still mean having to split vehicle ticks up in pathfinding and "doing other things", since vehicle ticks also involve some of the station loading/unloading logic iirc, and you still want the order vehicles process loading/unloading in to be deterministic
16:24<DorpsGek_III_>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 approved pull request #7940: Add: [Doxygen] Add the current version of documentation in header https://git.io/JvUKc
16:25<frosch123>i never know whether the "ENV=foo binary" syntax is proper shell
16:25<frosch123>i always use "env ENV=foo binary"
16:26<andythenorth>oof is it bedtime?
16:26<andythenorth>today seems long :P
16:26<Samu>with multiple docking points now
16:26<Samu>it may interfere
16:26<Samu>I dunnot
16:27<nielsm>sleep sounds like a good plan
16:27<Samu>rip multithreading opentttd
16:27<nielsm>gn
16:28<Samu>anyway back to my depth/pathfind tests
16:29<Samu>gonna start taking notes
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16:39<Samu>oh :( it's actually worse than i thought
16:40<Samu>searches more nodes with the different costs values per depth
16:40<Samu>i expected it to search less
16:41<Samu>well, it walks more tiles, so maybe it's expected? must think
16:46<Samu>57435 <-> 31768 unchanged
16:46<Samu>83024 <-> 56269 cheaper costs on deeper water
16:46<Samu>63820 <-> 38350 cheaper costs on shallower water
16:47<Samu>going from A to B, then B to A, the number of search nodes
16:48<Samu>I am disappointed with myself, I honestly expected it to search with less nodes
16:48<Samu>search less
16:49<Samu>especially disappointed with shallower water results
16:59<DorpsGek_III_>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #7938: Feature: Setting for a year that repeats forever https://git.io/JvU6l
17:07<TrueBrain>frosch123: they both work; with the letter, an extra process is started
17:07<TrueBrain>not sure if there is much more difference besides that
17:07<DorpsGek_III_>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #7940: Add: [Doxygen] Add the current version of documentation in header https://git.io/JvUoh
17:08<DorpsGek_III_>[OpenTTD/CompileFarm] frosch123 approved pull request #41: Add: [release-docs] tell Doxygen about the version we are creating https://git.io/JvU60
17:08<DorpsGek_III_>[OpenTTD/CompileFarm] TrueBrain merged pull request #41: Add: [release-docs] tell Doxygen about the version we are creating https://git.io/JvUKe
17:08<DorpsGek_III_>[OpenTTD/CompileFarm] TrueBrain pushed 1 commits to master https://git.io/JvU6E
17:08<DorpsGek_III_> - Add: [release-docs] tell Doxygen about the version we are creating (#41) (by TrueBrain)
17:08<TrueBrain>cheers
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17:32<DorpsGek_III_>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] esigra opened issue #7941: train pathfinder acts as if station exits had built-in signals https://git.io/JvU6p
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19:41<hythlodaeus>hello
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20:11<DorpsGek_III_>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] floodious commented on issue #7830: Load font from openttd config file directory, not from working directory. https://git.io/JewMG
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20:26<DorpsGek_III_>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] floodious commented on issue #7830: Load font from openttd config file directory, not from working directory. https://git.io/JewMG
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22:13<DorpsGek_III_>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on pull request #7938: Feature: Setting for a year that repeats forever https://git.io/JvUSs
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23:11<DorpsGek_III_>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #7938: Feature: Setting for a year that repeats forever https://git.io/JvU9i
---Logclosed Thu Jan 16 00:00:11 2020