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#openttd IRC Logs for 2020-05-23

---Logopened Sat May 23 00:00:15 2020
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03:19<andythenorth>o/
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03:51<Samu>hi
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04:05<Samu>Yexo, do you
04:05<Samu>nvm
04:08<Samu>the WaterPF requires a different builder than mine
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06:17<andythenorth>if a newgrf procedure stores to a temp register, will the register value persist after the procedure returns?
06:24<nielsm>the temps are allocated per callback invocation, as I understand it
06:24<nielsm>so when the callback completes, the temps are lost, not before
06:32<andythenorth>that sounds hopeful
06:33<andythenorth>I'm going to try and make FIRS compile faster
06:33<andythenorth>it's only 18 seconds for me from clean, but still
06:33<andythenorth>faster is nice
06:33<andythenorth>pypy makes an insane difference to FIRS compile time
06:59<andythenorth>oof https://gist.githubusercontent.com/andythenorth/028450d67f8e8d507264277e4376ad96/raw/271b51e9b828aa1e10cb7ce7def0c15ffdd5b396/gistfile1.txt
06:59<andythenorth>macos won't compile
07:01<andythenorth>older rev compiles
07:02<andythenorth>I haven't done a full bisection, just went to last commit before recent std:: changes
07:11<+michi_cc>andythenorth: make clean
07:11<+michi_cc>Seems to be a failure in our dep detection.
07:11<andythenorth>thanks :)
07:12<andythenorth> I did configure, didn't think about clean
07:15*andythenorth wonders if spritelayout can use procedures
07:15<andythenorth>already uses expressions
07:19<andythenorth>I particularly want to get rid of expressions like this https://github.com/andythenorth/firs/blob/master/src/templates/spritelayouts_groundaware.pynml#L41
07:20<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc updated pull request #8091: Add: [Script] Native priority queue; useful e.g. for pathfinders. https://git.io/JfUub
07:20<andythenorth>they are generated hundreds of times into firs.nml
07:20<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #8091: Add: [Script] Native priority queue; useful e.g. for pathfinders. https://git.io/Jfash
07:48<andythenorth>the nml expressions here break my brain :)
07:48<andythenorth>https://github.com/andythenorth/firs/blob/master/src/templates/tile_ground_sprite_%5Bunused%5D.pnml
07:48<andythenorth>I didn't write them
07:54<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/nml] FLHerne opened pull request #150: Fix #147: rounding issues https://git.io/JfaZl
07:57<LordAro>FLHerne: something in the regression test wouldn't go amiss
07:57<FLHerne>LordAro: ...there is?
07:57<LordAro>FLHerne: i should scroll down the whole diff
07:57<LordAro>:)
07:58<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/nml] FLHerne commented on pull request #150: Fix #147: rounding issues https://git.io/JfaZg
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10:07<supermop_Home>hi
10:08<andythenorth>hi :)
10:11<andythenorth>hmmm
10:11<andythenorth>is it worth using an intermediate grfcodec step for FIRS
10:12<andythenorth>only saves 5s max
10:12<andythenorth>probably not
10:12<FLHerne>andythenorth: No
10:12<andythenorth>typical compile is < 14s now
10:13<andythenorth>that is really quite good
10:13<FLHerne>andythenorth: What would make FIRS a lot faster would be if you directly built an NML AST
10:13<FLHerne>Currently you spend about half the time templating all your numbers into a wall-of-text, and then parsing said wall-of-text
10:13<andythenorth>is that a practical thing to do? o_O
10:14<FLHerne>I mean, it's all Python
10:14<FLHerne>So yes
10:14<FLHerne>https://github.com/OpenTTD/nml/pull/70 will make it less ugly
10:17<FLHerne>I suppose it would be a bit more likely to get broken by nml changes
10:17<FLHerne>But the syntax isn't a stable interface either
10:18<andythenorth>if I was a bit smarter :P
10:18<andythenorth>FIRS *does* have a tree of industry objects, and tile objects
10:18<andythenorth>and some of the callbacks are in a tree structure
10:19<andythenorth>there's a bit too much logic in actual nml right now though
10:20<FLHerne>You'd pretty much go through all the templates and replace them with functions that returned a chunk of AST
10:23*andythenorth pretends he knows what an AST is, instead of just what the definition means :P
10:23<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/nml] glx22 approved pull request #148: Version changes. https://git.io/JfaWH
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10:24<FLHerne>andythenorth: Look at https://github.com/OpenTTD/nml/blob/master/nml/parser.py
10:26<andythenorth>:)
10:27<FLHerne>andythenorth: My suggestion is to pretty much do what that does, except without the intermediate "write everything and parse it" step
10:27*andythenorth wonders whether to look for more 0.1s to take off FIRS
10:27<andythenorth>or just buy a computer that is not slow ass
10:27<andythenorth>I downgraded my CPU significantly in March :|
10:28<andythenorth>how would we get it into nml to write out the result? pickle? Or import nml modules to FIRS?
10:28<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/nml] FLHerne merged pull request #148: Version changes. https://git.io/JfzOm
10:29<FLHerne>andythenorth: The latter
10:29<nielsm>import the nml modules into FIRS and generate the parse tree directly
10:29<nielsm>then you can have nml output the parse tree to nml format if you want an .nml file
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10:32<FLHerne>That might need a bit of improvement if he wants a *nice* nml file :p
10:36<andythenorth>currently I'm favouring the 'buy a not slow computer' theory :P
10:38<FLHerne>glx: Were you planning to post that unused-parameter optimization as a PR?
10:39<andythenorth>hmm should Intel Turbo Boost apply for single-threaded Python?
10:40<FLHerne>In principle
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10:40<FLHerne>They have turbo for any number of cores now, but highest freq if only one loaded
10:40<FLHerne>But only if it's not too hot
10:41<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/nml] FLHerne commented on pull request #150: Fix #147: rounding issues https://git.io/Jfalo
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10:59<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc updated pull request #8091: Add: [Script] Native priority queue; useful e.g. for pathfinders. https://git.io/JfUub
11:13<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/nml] glx22 opened pull request #151: Add: Ignore unreferenced named parameters https://git.io/Jfa8j
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11:37<FLHerne>> return ((input * this->multiplier) + (round && this->shift != 0 ? 1 << (this->shift - 1) : 0)) >> this->shift;
11:38<FLHerne>Given that `round && <anything truthy>` is always 1, I feel like this is broken
11:40<FLHerne>No, I misunderstood the precedence
12:11<+michi_cc>planetmaker: Performance is usually used as the reason for not doing "dynamic" track sprites, but if you look at what a crapload of stuff the catenary drawing does to get crossings right, I don't see any performance problem with a few more vars.
12:11<+michi_cc>Of course, somebody still has to code it.
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12:32<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/nml] FLHerne updated pull request #150: Fix #147: rounding issues https://git.io/JfaZl
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12:38<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/nml] FLHerne commented on pull request #150: Fix #147: rounding issues https://git.io/JfaRH
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13:12<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/nml] FLHerne updated pull request #150: Fix #147: rounding issues https://git.io/JfaZl
13:22<andythenorth>hmm FIRS makefile might be clown shoes
13:23<andythenorth>the Iron Horse one was fixed for me https://github.com/andythenorth/iron-horse/commit/9a1d4f61375d66faa8797ebc690492e6f2344e10#diff-b67911656ef5d18c4ae36cb6741b7965
13:29<andythenorth>hmm different kind of clown shoes :D https://github.com/andythenorth/firs/commit/913895194d21ffbc442f9872d6e3ad0ff1fd1bc6
13:29<andythenorth>that's saved 10% of compile time
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14:47<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/nml] FLHerne commented on pull request #151: Add: Ignore unreferenced named parameters https://git.io/JfazT
14:53<andythenorth>I cut 1MB off firs.nml
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15:23<FLHerne>How?
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15:43<andythenorth>reduced redundancy
15:43<andythenorth>eliminated repeated spritesets
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15:44<andythenorth>also a bunch of repeated code for setting terrain tile
15:44<andythenorth>it's snail_UES_ :)
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16:24<andythenorth>sub 10s FIRS compile with primed caches :)
16:24<andythenorth>that's really not bad
16:25<andythenorth>grfcodec would not be much faster
16:25<andythenorth>ok grfcodec is sub 2s, but still
16:52<Samu>@seen yexo
16:52<@DorpsGek>Samu: yexo was last seen in #openttd 22 hours, 58 minutes, and 13 seconds ago: <Yexo> GN
17:14<supermop_Home>andythenorth is the hst car like a luxury car?
17:25<andythenorth>supermop_Home intermediate
17:25<andythenorth>it has a small payment decay bonus
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17:48<supermop_Home>cant decide whether these 5 tile wyvern hauled luxury cars should become HSTs or something banal
17:49<andythenorth>what's the class 50 thing?
17:49<andythenorth>what version are you playing? :)
17:50<andythenorth>wait for the Onslaught I reckon
17:52<supermop_Home>I've got the onslaught
17:52<supermop_Home>it seems overkill for 5 tiles?
17:53<supermop_Home>vanguard seems best incremental upgrade
17:53<andythenorth>it is
17:53<supermop_Home>but i think i might need to switch to regular cars to increase capacity
17:53<andythenorth>but it's deliberately a bit vanilla and dull
17:53<supermop_Home>maybe electrify the line and use the Olympic emu thing?
17:53<supermop_Home>not a super busy line though
17:55<andythenorth>use a snowplough
17:55<andythenorth>oops
17:55<andythenorth>silly andythenorth
17:56<supermop_Home>https://imgur.com/a/oxH9wYj
17:56<supermop_Home>bit busy here
17:57<supermop_Home>currently DMUs turn back in the center platform
17:57<andythenorth>such road types :)
18:00<supermop_Home>those freights going to the harbor really should be electric
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18:09*andythenorth sleeping time
18:09<andythenorth>oof
18:09<andythenorth>I just started a new game, but ma eyes are closing
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19:19<Speeder>how hard is to create a new economy for FIRS?
19:19<Speeder>I am making a Map about Brazil
19:19<Speeder>and kinda sad that half of the relevant industries are in one economy, and the other half is in the other
19:19<Speeder>don't even need new industries, just merge existing ones
19:20<Speeder>(although I would love to have a nuclear powerplant... Brazil has only one but it is wildly famous, maybe because there is only one)
19:20<Speeder>(that said Brazil export a lot of nuclear fuel, so would be good to be able to do that too)
19:21<FLHerne>Speeder: Code-wise, trivial
19:22<supermop_Home>Speeder "a lot" of nuclear fuel is still usually pretty small in terms of train loads per year,
19:23<FLHerne>Add a new file under src/economies with the list of cargos, add `industry.economy_variations['NEW_ECONOMY'].enabled = True to the industries you want to be in it
19:23<FLHerne>And a couple of strings
19:23<FLHerne>AIUI, the hard part is getting the balance right so it's fun
19:24<FLHerne>And drawing all the pixels, of course
19:24<supermop_Home>which is the main reason andy hasn't included any nuclear industry chains.. it's just not that interesting at Openttd scale
19:24<Speeder>well, for nuclear fuel maybe join all of the minerals as one, "Rare Earths"
19:24<Speeder>Brazil is one of the biggest exporters of "rare earths"
19:25<Speeder>FLHerne, my idea is merge a bunch of "Hot Country" into "Extreme"
19:25<Speeder>specially cassava and coffee
19:25<Speeder>since those are staple foods here
19:27<FLHerne>Makes sense to me
19:28<Speeder>where is firs source?
19:28<FLHerne>Although Extreme is pretty big already, so you might want to drop something...
19:28<Speeder>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository <<< gives 404
19:28<FLHerne>Speeder: https://github.com/andythenorth/firs
19:29<FLHerne>(master won't build with current nml, you need the v4 branch or one of the other recent ones)
19:29<FLHerne>(or older nml)
19:29<Speeder>also would have to change "beet"
19:30<Speeder>nml?
19:31<FLHerne>https://github.com/OpenTTD/nml
19:31<Speeder>how I figure out what v4 does different?
19:31<Speeder>or how useful, or not... it is?
19:33<FLHerne>Ask andy tomorrow is probably easiest
19:33<FLHerne>Rephrasing more clearly:
19:34<FLHerne> - The 'master' branch of FIRS can't be compiled with the current version of nml
19:34<FLHerne>So you can compile the 'v4-development-track' or another recent branch with current nml
19:34<Speeder>just saw FIRS 4 will remove extreme and hot country
19:35<Speeder>that... kinda is totally opposite of what I want :P
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19:35<Speeder>so I won't use v4 as base
19:35<FLHerne>Or one of the tagged FIRS releases with an older nml version
19:35<Speeder>need to choose another branch
19:35<FLHerne>sorry, v4-release-track is the current branch
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22:27-!-tokai is "Christian Rosentreter" on #openttd
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22:45<Speeder>I can't f igure how to make my msys2 install pillow :(
22:45<Speeder>whenever I tyr it complains there is no libjpeg
22:45<Speeder>but I installed all the ones I could find
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22:53-!-D-HUND is "Wowbagger" on #openttd
22:54<Speeder>msys2 is just nuts
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23:31<Speeder>D:
23:31<Speeder>why building FIRS is so hard?
23:31<Speeder>old nml doesn't run
23:31<Speeder>new nml refuses to compile it
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23:40-!-snail_UES_ is "Jacopo Coletto" on #openttd
23:50<Eddi|zuHause>well, $someone once told me i shouldn't bother making nml backwards compatible when i attempted to do so
23:50<Eddi|zuHause>"maintaining two branches is easy" they claimed
---Logclosed Sun May 24 00:00:17 2020