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#openttd IRC Logs for 2020-10-18

---Logopened Sun Oct 18 00:00:48 2020
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01:47<rptr_>is there a configure option to enable debugging symbols?
01:47<rptr_>(autotools)
01:50<rptr_>found it
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03:37<andythenorth>yo
03:42<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/team] Aswn opened issue #59: [ta_IN] Translator access request https://git.io/JTWuw
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03:44<rptr_>hi
03:44<andythenorth>lol someone tried to make my Iron Horse fake train https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/OO-Gauge-Lima-Class-52-Hybrid/114468967793?hash=item1aa6e1d571:g:HLcAAOSwbq5fi3Vb
03:45<andythenorth>https://grf.farm/iron-horse/2.8.0/html/firebird.html
03:45<rptr_>andythenorth, huh? they made a model based on your train?
03:45<andythenorth>IRL no, but convergent evolution
03:45<andythenorth>they did with plastic what I did with pixels
03:46<andythenorth>mine is better TBH :)
03:46<rptr_>your set is very nice
03:46<rptr_>i just wish there was a nice friendly server with nice newgrfs ._.
03:47<rptr_>andythenorth, do you draw every perspective from scratch, or render a 3d model?
03:47<andythenorth>from scratch
03:47<rptr_>oh! there's a HK/MTR set. that brings back memories
03:47<andythenorth>mostly actually from copy-paste
03:48<rptr_>not sure if i actually recognise the trains. just the logo
03:48<rptr_>getting an MTR pass took like 2 months
03:48<rptr_>andythenorth, i guess if i did one i'd take an existing and draw over
04:22<TrueBrain>I do not understand why a [[Category:]] is a link, and when a marker of: add this to this category .. mediawiki is really really weird and inconsistent
04:22<TrueBrain>morning all :)
04:23<andythenorth>hi TB
04:23<rptr_>hi
04:24<andythenorth>well we know _why_ but we don't know _why_
04:24<andythenorth>stuff is made by people
04:28<rptr_>LordAro, re. call stack being printed after catching an exception. i backported 1 LOC from latest squirrel and changed 1 setting in Squirrel.cpp. would that be worth a pull request? i really think if exceptions work properly that would be great
04:30<rptr_>perhaps an AIError.PrintCallStack() would be useful
04:32*rptr_ can run ChooChoo without stack traces \o/
04:42<LordAro>rptr_: i think that would be worth a PR
04:43<LordAro>(certainly the former, and *maybe* the latter)
04:44<rptr_>i am so happy. now i can use exceptions. :p
04:48<andythenorth>so when is daylength?
04:49*andythenorth playing game
04:49<rptr_>andythenorth, adjustable daylength?
04:49<andythenorth>anything
04:49<rptr_>i don't know what you mean
04:50<andythenorth>new generations of vehicles arrive about too quickly
04:50<andythenorth>ideally they would be about 1.5x slower in my games
04:51<andythenorth>I could just change the newgrfs, but then dates look a bit weird
04:53<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rptr opened pull request #8331: Fix: don't notify caught exceptions https://git.io/JTWre
04:54<rptr_>can't you modify when vehicles arrive? i thought that already existed
04:55<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rptr closed pull request #8331: Fix: don't notify caught exceptions https://git.io/JTWre
04:55<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rptr reopened pull request #8331: Fix: [NoAI] don't notify caught exceptions https://git.io/JTWre
05:00<andythenorth>I could just change the dates
05:00<andythenorth>intro dates
05:01<andythenorth>current solution is just to use date cheat and set the year back occasionally
05:01<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rptr updated pull request #8331: Fix: [NoAI] don't notify caught exceptions https://git.io/JTWre
05:05<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8331: Fix: [NoAI] don't notify caught exceptions https://git.io/JTWrb
05:13<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rptr commented on pull request #8331: Fix: [NoAI] don't notify caught exceptions https://git.io/JTWoi
05:14<andythenorth>who invented a 'freeze time' mode?
05:14<andythenorth>was it TB?
05:17<Eddi|zuHause>that sounds unlikely
05:18<Eddi|zuHause>i would think either Wolf01 or alberth
05:18<TrueBrain>wtf is "freeze time"?
05:19<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: one where the game progresses but the date doesn't advance
05:19<andythenorth>some kind of 'stop the date'
05:19<TrueBrain>what is the obsession with people of stopping time? :P
05:19<Eddi|zuHause>transport fever 2 has that
05:20<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: mostly people who want to play with steam trains instead of maglev
05:20<TrueBrain>so buy a slower CPU :P
05:20<TrueBrain>(I am trolling, btw)
05:20<andythenorth>I tried searching logs but eh
05:20<andythenorth>Boredom Ensued
05:20<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: my CPU is probably slower than yours :p
05:21<TrueBrain>ugh @ html library of Python
05:21<TrueBrain>it seems to be fixing "&SF" into "&SF;"
05:21<TrueBrain>but it should be "&SF"
05:22<TrueBrain>facepalm
05:22<Eddi|zuHause>sounds like a job for a regex :p
05:22<TrueBrain>it is not wrong perse to do this .. there are a few codes that don't need the ;
05:23<TrueBrain>HTML is annoying like that
05:23<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, i got a bit confused about that when i hand-coded html like 20 years ago
05:31<TrueBrain>I hate libraries that do all kind of things "extra" for you
05:31<TrueBrain>the Python "html" lib is really one of them :P
05:36<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rptr commented on pull request #8331: Fix: [NoAI] don't notify caught exceptions https://git.io/JTW6o
05:36<Eddi|zuHause>you can hopefully configure some of those "extra" things
05:36<TrueBrain>nope
05:37<TrueBrain>it uses regex to figure out the HTML, and it doesn't give enough information to me to reconstruct the original input
05:37<TrueBrain>so I get "sf", with input "&sf;" and "&sf"
05:37<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rptr commented on pull request #8331: Fix: [NoAI] don't notify caught exceptions https://git.io/JTW6M
05:37<rptr_>wait, is it an actual problem for you that steam trains are phased out?
05:38<rptr_>i prefer them too, but i'm sure i've played on always-steam servers
05:38<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8331: Fix: [NoAI] don't notify caught exceptions https://git.io/JTW69
05:39<Eddi|zuHause>rptr_: there is a setting to not phase them out. but then you still have the new trains that are obviously superior
05:39<TrueBrain>and not playing with them is SO DIFFICULT or something :P
05:40<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rptr commented on pull request #8331: Fix: [NoAI] don't notify caught exceptions https://git.io/JTW6p
05:40<Eddi|zuHause>it breaks the immersion :p
05:41<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rptr commented on pull request #8331: Fix: [NoAI] don't notify caught exceptions https://git.io/JTWiJ
05:41<rptr_>sorry for spamming git :P
05:41<rptr_>can't you remove trains with newgrf or something?
05:42<andythenorth>I can control all the trains I want
05:43<Eddi|zuHause>sure, you can make a newgrf that fits one single person's needs
05:43<andythenorth>the specific issue is that upgrades come in waves, it's kind of the only way to do it
05:43<Eddi|zuHause>but the next person would need a slightly different newgrf
05:44<rptr_>so, you want new steam trains to come out, but history should end at a certain point? :p
05:44<Eddi|zuHause>and that doesn't scale well when the number of people goes up
05:45<andythenorth>I find that by the time I've replaced all the trains of one generation
05:45<andythenorth>and tuned the network
05:45<andythenorth>it's time for the next generation
05:46<andythenorth>and unlike building, you can't replace trains in pause mode
05:46<andythenorth>I could just adjust the intro dates, but I'd have to do it for all the vehicle newgrfs I use
05:47<andythenorth>also realism reasons :P
05:47<rptr_>yeah that is annoying. and i never upgrade from electric to mono or mono to maglev. yurk
05:47<rptr_>probably more realistic to not upgrade anyway
05:47<andythenorth>I have to use ffwd a lot when replacing trains
05:47<andythenorth>to get them into depot
05:47<andythenorth>so the game goes by quite fast
05:47<rptr_>what was that game someone mentioned above, some other transport game...
05:48<TrueBrain>that moment you find a random "LEFT-TO-RIGHT MARK" in the input .. wutttttt
05:48<Eddi|zuHause>but that brings us back to the original problem of all daylength patches: you need to dive into the code and decouple simulation time progression from date progression
05:48<rptr_>can you change dates in gamescript?
05:48<Eddi|zuHause>no
05:49<Eddi|zuHause>rptr_: transport fever 2
05:52<rptr_>is Cities: Skyline/-s any good?
06:01<Eddi|zuHause>sure
06:01<Eddi|zuHause>if you have lots of RAM...
06:06<Wolf01><Eddi|zuHause> i would think either Wolf01 or alberth <- one of us probably, my long term memory doesn't work well anymore, I can't load memories and I'm paging constantly, working slowly as my brain is still electrochemical... I might need a soft reset
06:09<Eddi|zuHause>they say covid longterm effects are some kind of brain-fogginess :)
06:10<Wolf01>Nah, this is just stress
06:17<rptr_>the first time i was actually concerned about getting sick w/ covid was after hearing about the brain fog. otherwise "i can probably take it"
06:17<rptr_>i'm still convinced i got some brain damage from that flu at age 14...
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06:52<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rptr updated pull request #8331: Fix: [NoAI] don't notify caught exceptions https://git.io/JTWre
06:52<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/team] glx22 commented on issue #59: [ta_IN] Translator access request https://git.io/JTWuw
06:52<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rptr commented on pull request #8331: Fix: [NoAI] don't notify caught exceptions https://git.io/JTWyN
06:57<FLHerne>andythenorth: I can't see anyone paying £30 for that somehow
07:02<andythenorth>optimism
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07:11<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8331: Fix: [NoAI] don't notify caught exceptions https://git.io/JTW9R
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07:24<Wolf01><Eddi|zuHause> i would think either Wolf01 or alberth <- something about it on 4th april, but also I think we referred to the transport fever 2 date freeze feature
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07:52<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rptr updated pull request #8331: Fix: [NoAI] don't notify caught exceptions https://git.io/JTWre
07:56*andythenorth considers 'Wales & West Country' FIRS economy
07:57<LordAro>West Country was always my favourite TTD map
07:57<andythenorth>like FIRS Temperate Basic, only not laughably basic
07:57<andythenorth>this is silly https://grf.farm/firs/4.0.0-alpha-3/html/economies.html#temperate_basic
08:00<rptr_>firs is so nice :)
08:05<andythenorth>hmm
08:05<andythenorth>I think I extended the 'ports are the hubs' beyond reason https://grf.farm/firs/4.0.0-alpha-3/html/economies.html#steeltown
08:06<andythenorth>it's quite hard to build stations to pickup 6 different cargos and deliver 2
08:06<andythenorth>or pick up 6 and deliver 4
08:07<longtomjr_>Being able to use boats makes it easier in a lot of cases though
08:07<longtomjr_>but with default station spread it probably ends up a bit tricky
08:08<rptr_>firs only has 4 economies now?
08:08<rptr_>there used to be some other ones i think
08:09<andythenorth>I removed extreme
08:09<andythenorth>I'm going to add more
08:09<rptr_>more industries = better :D
08:12<rptr_>you could build spaceship parts, Civ 2 style
08:15<Eddi|zuHause>the civ2 spaceship looked weird. civ1 spaceship was nice
08:16<rptr_>didn't know it had one. i wish civ 2 had the resource feature of civ 3, then it'd be perfect
08:18<Wolf01>Never completed one in civ2
08:19<rptr_>i still want to make some mars map. fund farms and dig for water to terraform and win(?). don't know what capabilities game script has
08:19<rptr_>in ottd that is
08:22<FLHerne>andythenorth: Yes please, that's my ideal industry
08:23<FLHerne>economy
08:23<FLHerne>andythenorth: Have you considered customs posts? :p
08:24<FLHerne>Placed only on land map edges
08:24<andythenorth>Railroad Tycoon had Warehouses
08:24<andythenorth>ports-without-sea
08:24<LordAro>TrueBrain: https://github.com/LordAro/OpenTTD/runs/1271090206#step:4:14 any ideas?
08:25<andythenorth>border posts might solve some problems
08:25<andythenorth>e.g. WAWC would need quicklime, but I'd rather import it
08:26<rptr_>sheep and coal
08:28<andythenorth>sheep and coal
08:28<andythenorth>and cider
08:30<andythenorth>FLHerne would including Customs Posts on the borders of Wales / Cornwall be political?
08:30<andythenorth>Cymru / Kernow?
08:32<FLHerne>Emmets
08:32<FLHerne>Go to beaches and hotels, and have an extra-slow loading time because of all the surfboards
08:33<longtomjr_>It looks like the pr that changed the display speed in nml introduced a breaking change
08:33<FLHerne>Oh, and castles
08:33<longtomjr_>for 0.5.3
08:33<longtomjr_>Error: (TypeError) "new_ottd_display_speed() takes 3 positional arguments but 4 were given".
08:33<FLHerne>I've never seen castles as an OTTD industry, but it would be pretty
08:33<longtomjr_>(sorry not sure if this is a good time)
08:33<FLHerne>longtomjr_: Sorry, that's probably my fault
08:34<FLHerne>longtomjr_: Is the relevant NML public?
08:34<longtomjr_>yep, on pip3
08:34<longtomjr_>I saw you added another param there
08:34<longtomjr_>added in 'mul'
08:35<longtomjr_>assume the easy workaround is just to make mul 1
08:36<FLHerne>longtomjr_: Oh, you're calling it from Python
08:36<longtomjr_>yep
08:36<FLHerne>I don't *think* we promise to maintain a stable Python API
08:37<longtomjr_>ah no worries then
08:37<FLHerne>Especially if you're calling odd internals :p
08:37<longtomjr_>working on recompiling the finnish trainset
08:37<longtomjr_>so not my fault :P
08:38<andythenorth>FLHerne I don't think we promise much at all :)
08:38<longtomjr_>anyways, let me try and figure out what is going on.
08:38<longtomjr_>thanks for the help and sorry for bothering
08:38<FLHerne>longtomjr_: And yes, making 'mul' 1 will give you the same behaviour
08:38<andythenorth>mostly we just count ourselves lucky if we keep up with openttd and have some docs :P
08:38<longtomjr_>ty
08:38<FLHerne>Are you using custom speed units or something?
08:38<FLHerne>Sorry, afk for a bit, RL intrudes
08:38<FLHerne>But I'll read anything you say in a bit :p
08:39<TrueBrain>LordAro: honestly no clue. But do we still want to support i386?
08:39<longtomjr_>Wait, this might still be a bug, the error comes from /lib/python3.8/site-packages/nml/actions/action0properties.py"
08:39<LordAro>TrueBrain: looks like it might be some missing executable on the container, judging by https://github.com/docker/for-linux/issues/246
08:39<LordAro>not sure what yet though
08:40<LordAro>TrueBrain: no particular reason why not, tbh
08:40<LordAro>i imagine i'd have the same trouble with the 16.04 amd64 container anyway
08:41<longtomjr_>FLHerne, https://github.com/OpenTTD/nml/blob/0.5.3/nml/actions/action0properties.py#L337
08:41<longtomjr_>that line is the one throwing the error
08:41<TrueBrain>Fair enough. I can help looking what goes wrong later today.. I have seen it before, just cannot remember what solved it ..
08:42<LordAro>no rush :p
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08:45<longtomjr_>FLHerne, this is the script on my end causing the issue: https://hg.openttdcoop.org/frissrails/files/46d2c71804936b5c53a30084bce3c4811fbc36be/nmlc_monkey
08:46<longtomjr_>or rather that same script, in the finnish trainset repo
08:48<longtomjr_># Monkey patch for nml to correct display speed rounding errors,
08:48<longtomjr_># until some nml dev fixes it in upstream
08:48<longtomjr_>I am guessing this is not needed anymore
08:49<rptr_>any industry which generates passengers from passengers? would make sense for a tourist attraction like a castle
08:49<longtomjr_>so yep, error on my end
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09:09<FLHerne>rptr_: FIRS has Hotels which are basically the same thing
09:09<FLHerne>But castles would be more scenic
09:11<andythenorth>ECS has one
09:11<FLHerne>longtomjr_: Yes, if you monkeypatch internal functions, you get to keep both pieces ;-)
09:11<andythenorth>https://www.tt-wiki.net/wiki/ECS_Town_Vector._Tourists_centre._NeuSchwanstein_Castle
09:11<frosch123>ecs castles are a puzzle game
09:11<FLHerne>longtomjr_: Also, the change that breaks your patch also removes the reason for it
09:12<longtomjr_>yep, figured that ouyt
09:12<longtomjr_>*out, thanks
09:12<andythenorth>industry terraforming :P
09:12<andythenorth>specify height relative to N tile :P
09:12<longtomjr_>and sorry for the false positive
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09:24<andythenorth>Wales and West Country economy would be better with regions
09:24<andythenorth>maybe I could use map xy to force industry location
09:25<andythenorth>hmm, but what if some of map is just sea?
09:25<andythenorth>always problems :P
09:25<rptr_>i do find that random locations of industries don't make much sense
09:25<rptr_>makes sense to have farms concentrated mostly in one place, unless it's one big farmland
09:26<rptr_>(for example)
09:26<rptr_>well i think the last time i played firs there were some clusters of farms. not sure if intentional
09:26<+glx>you can craft a scenario manually :)
09:26<rptr_>._.
09:26<rptr_>i don't like that!
09:27<+glx>usually only one type of industry is allowed per town
09:30<+glx>and newgrf industries can use complex checking of surroundings before being built, but that can prevent them totally if the checks are very specific (like in ECS)
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09:35<rptr_>is ECS the one with the weird creatures on the industries?
09:50<TrueBrain>LordAro: very weird issue, as executing the commands locally works fine
09:50<TrueBrain>I remember similar issues when using alpine, and not everything being installed
09:50<TrueBrain>but .. that is not this :D
09:51<TrueBrain>LordAro: maybe try 18.04, see if there is any difference?
09:52<TrueBrain>(in general, 16.04 .. maybe we should drop support for that :D 2 new versions are out, and we said to support n-1 :D)
10:17<LordAro>TrueBrain: it's still supported generally, no real reason why we shouldn't support it either
10:17<TrueBrain>LordAro: not that long ago we said we were only going to do n-1, as otherwise it was not doable really
10:17<TrueBrain>we said that for MacOS, but also for Debian
10:17<TrueBrain>not sure why we want to change that again .. but okay, if you want to hurt yourself, I am not stopping you :D
10:17<TrueBrain>but I would start by trying if 18.04 works
10:17<TrueBrain>and work from there
10:18<TrueBrain>(as I think 20.04 has no i386 anymore?)
10:18<TrueBrain>"Ubuntu Linux 16.04 LTS reaches the end of its five-year LTS window on April 30th 2021" <- or just drag this on for a few more months, and you don't have to feel bad anymore
10:20<+glx>I think 20.04 still has i386
10:20<+glx>at least in packages
10:20<TrueBrain>I can never remember .. they were dropping i386 on one of these main streams :P
10:21<TrueBrain>(about freaking time tbh ... i386 is like ppc :D)
10:21<TrueBrain>ah, they wanted to drop, but too many people were: MAMMIE, THIS IS NOT FAIR
10:22<TrueBrain>so they added i386 for 20.04
10:22<TrueBrain>but in that case LordAro , start with 20.04, and work from there :)
10:22<+glx>they also have ppc64el and s390x
10:22<TrueBrain>it is a lot easier if you know it is because you trying to support a 4 year old something ;)
10:23<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/eints] Aswn opened issue #29: Unable to use STRING1 or anyother non standard modifiers in translations https://git.io/JTlq9
10:23<TrueBrain>well, I agree with their statement that supporting 0.001% is a bad idea, as it is very much untested at that point
10:24<TrueBrain>LordAro: if it is 16.04, and if your code just works on 20.04, we have a direction to search for what goes wrong :)
10:24<LordAro>glx: no, full i386 was dropped in 19.10
10:24<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/eints] glx22 commented on issue #29: Unable to use STRING1 or anyother non standard modifiers in translations https://git.io/JTlq9
10:24<TrueBrain>LordAro: https://ubuntu.com/blog/statement-on-32-bit-i386-packages-for-ubuntu-19-10-and-20-04-lts
10:24<TrueBrain>was reverted ;)
10:24<LordAro>yes, *packages*
10:24<TrueBrain>define "full" ;)
10:25<LordAro>there's no i386 release
10:25<TrueBrain>they were "fully" going to drop i386 :P
10:25<TrueBrain>anyway, please also remember that GitHub Actions Checkout needs a relative new git version (2.18 I believe)
10:25<LordAro>mm
10:25<+glx>yeah I guess the installer is 64bit only, but when upgrading existing install you can still use i386
10:25<TrueBrain>otherwise revision detection might fail (as it will download an archive)
10:25<TrueBrain>so in general, I say what I said last time we talked about this: do the checkout on the host, not in a container ;)
10:26<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/eints] TrueBrain commented on issue #29: Unable to use STRING1 or anyother non standard modifiers in translations https://git.io/JTlq9
10:27<LordAro>mm, maybe
10:27<LordAro>a lot of repeated "runs-on" though :p
10:32<TrueBrain>but it avoids having to deal with stuff that is not important :)
10:32<TrueBrain>you only want to use the container to compile
10:33<TrueBrain>but again, if you want to hurt yourself, I am not stopping you :D
10:33<TrueBrain>I would advise: get it to work first, optimize it later ;)
10:33<TrueBrain>and talking about hurting yourself. ... comparing HTML with mediawiki is PAINFUL
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10:37<rptr_>what other way do parts of openttd check/print based on debug levels apart from _debug_*_level and DEBUG(...)?
10:38<rptr_>can't seem to find a place where _debug_script_level==5 causes output to the in-game console and stdout
10:40<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rptr updated pull request #8331: Fix: [NoAI] don't notify caught exceptions https://git.io/JTWre
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10:58<TrueBrain>why do I keep finding bugs in Wiki templates ... most of this stuff could never really work tbfh :P
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11:36<TrueBrain>owh boy ... <small><<Back to the <a href=""></a></small> ...
11:36<TrueBrain>how to learn anything that the << should be escaped
11:36<TrueBrain>lol
11:37<TrueBrain>it now sees "back" as a tag, and "to the <a href="">" as the attributes
11:37<TrueBrain>lol
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12:56<Eddi|zuHause>obviously you need AI, and blockchain... :p
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13:10<andythenorth>more cloud needed
13:11<frosch123>it's dark, you can't even see the clouds
13:14<TrueBrain>I am finding so many bugs in mediawiki ... I hope they are all fixes in newer versions ..
13:14<TrueBrain>my new favorite: <dl><dt><dl><dd></dt></dl></dd></dl>
13:14<TrueBrain>find the error :P
13:14<+glx>easy
13:15<+glx>the order doesn't match
13:15<TrueBrain>cannot believe the crap a browser can still render :P
13:15<andythenorth>browsers put up with all sorts of shit
13:16<andythenorth>they are the multi-wheel run-flat-tyre truck of the industry
13:16<andythenorth>set a few land mines off under them, they keep going
13:16<andythenorth>I mean...they even run javascript
13:17<+glx>well most can probably still handle IE6 weirdness
13:17<TrueBrain>right ... more fixes ... more HTML that renders exactly the same ...i getting there .. now lets check all pages starting with an 'a' :D
13:18<frosch123>don't fool us. we know that wiki pages start capitalized
13:19<TrueBrain>I really wonder what is easier .. to just fix every page to be sane, or to make the render accept the insanity :P
13:19<TrueBrain>by now, I just lowercased every URL .. got so sick of those differences :P
13:19<TrueBrain>hmm .. somehow I managed to render </td></li></ul></tr> .. that can never be correct :D
13:20<TrueBrain>so sometimes mediawiki changes "a: b" into "a:b", and sometimes it does not .. I am so happy if I can let this all go, and just go with frosch123's dataset
13:20<TrueBrain>(currently comparing against live-wiki, as .. well, .. ugh
13:23<TrueBrain>wtf ... check https://wiki.openttd.org/Advanced_Settings/Economy .. search for "feed service" .. now check the source ..
13:23<TrueBrain>how .... why ...... huh?
13:23<TrueBrain>this is just ... wuth?
13:24<frosch123>you mean the [[link]]trails?
13:24<frosch123>they are not supported by wikitextparser, not me
13:24<frosch123>they are just stupid
13:25<TrueBrain>yes, that with "[[negative income with feeder service]]s", the "s" is inside the <a></a>
13:25<TrueBrain>it clearly is NOT
13:25<TrueBrain>it can go fuck itself
13:26<TrueBrain>(and only for the text it is inside, not for the URL)
13:26<frosch123>yes, that's the stupid mediawiki feature, that noone supports
13:26<frosch123>i only learned about it when figuring out gollum stuff
13:26<TrueBrain>but why .. just why ...
13:26<TrueBrain>"owh, you were stupid, let me fix it for you"
13:27<frosch123>TrueBrain: it's a shortcut: [[foobar]]s == [[foobar | foobars]]
13:27<TrueBrain>... but why?
13:27<TrueBrain>I don't understand these things .. it only makes for very unreadable source :(
13:27<frosch123>when the page title is singular, but the grammar requires something else
13:27<frosch123>it works for languages which append stuff
13:27<frosch123>but fails for others
13:27<TrueBrain>it works for English, basically
13:27<TrueBrain>:P
13:28<frosch123>ask that the guys who added std::chrono:january/05/2005 as valid syntax to c++
13:29<TrueBrain>... wuth?
13:29<TrueBrain>let me see if I can recover some sanity here, I think it just ran out of the door
13:29<TrueBrain>meh, still no clue how to fix <<Back from working .. how do I know that it is not a tag .. hmmmm
13:30<TrueBrain>guess, check if there is another < in the tag
13:30<TrueBrain>hmm, that would work
13:35<frosch123>how is "<< back" different from "a < b" ?
13:35<TrueBrain>it is <<Back, not << Back
13:35<TrueBrain>space :)
13:35<TrueBrain>it will have issues with a<b too
13:35<TrueBrain>but solved now :)
13:39<TrueBrain>funny, wikitextparser considers ) in URLs as valid
13:39<TrueBrain>so http://www.example.com) becomes an URL, instead of without the )
13:39<TrueBrain>meh .. #care
13:40<TrueBrain>-59%</b>
13:40<TrueBrain>+41.682419659735345%</b>
13:40<TrueBrain>owh boy, this will be interesting :D
13:40<LordAro>that happens in so many places i automatically do (http://foo.com )
13:41<LordAro>TrueBrain: ohho
13:41<TrueBrain>-breakdowns</td>
13:41<TrueBrain>+breakdowns0</td>
13:41<TrueBrain>that is also an odd one
13:41<TrueBrain>lets dive in :)
13:43<TrueBrain>the source .. really says "0"
13:43<TrueBrain>but .. I guess .. this is ... PHP ...
13:43<TrueBrain>empty("0") == true after all, in that language
13:43<frosch123>thanks, i was happy without knowing that
13:44<TrueBrain>https://www.php.net/manual/en/function.empty.php
13:44<TrueBrain>just reading it makes me laugh EVERY single time
13:44<TrueBrain>that "" is empty, and that 0 is empty, okay .. ish
13:44<TrueBrain>but "0"
13:44<TrueBrain>that is just hilarious :)
13:44<LordAro>non empty string
13:44<LordAro>it's the same in python :p
13:45<TrueBrain>if "0" == True: THIS NEVER RUNS
13:45<LordAro>(well, "false", rather than "empty")
13:45<LordAro>if "0": does though
13:45<TrueBrain>.... it can go fuck itself then
13:46<TrueBrain>I do not know if I want to fix this or not ...
13:46<TrueBrain>the parameter is "0"
13:46<TrueBrain>it is used in the template as {{2}}
13:46<TrueBrain>and nothing is printed
13:47<frosch123>TrueBrain: some of those wiki parser libs wrote "this does not try to be bug-to-bug compatible with mediawiki"
13:47<frosch123>that's sound like a good approach
13:47<LordAro>sounds like something is using python boolean logic instead of emulating php's
13:47<TrueBrain>yeah, well, let me show you something, just to make you giggle ..
13:47<TrueBrain>LordAro: there is no boolean logic involved, that is the point
13:47<LordAro>ok, "logic to determine whether something is empty"
13:48<TrueBrain>it is printing a parameter ..
13:48<TrueBrain>there should be no logic involved
13:48<TrueBrain>you say: give me a 0
13:48<TrueBrain>you should get a zero :P
13:48<TrueBrain>no clue why mediawiki makes that more complicated
13:48<TrueBrain>anyway .. frosch123 : https://gist.github.com/TrueBrain/8b4226455ddd1b11d146a85e32ce5896 <- I am not being bug-compatible :P
13:48<LordAro>depends what the template is doing
13:48<TrueBrain>so many seds to make comparing possible :D
13:48<TrueBrain>LordAro: printing the variable! That is all!
13:48<TrueBrain>it really just reads: {{2}}
13:48<TrueBrain>no logic, nothing
13:49<TrueBrain>just .. printing the damn variable :P
13:49<LordAro>that is.odd
13:49<TrueBrain>..... glad you caught on :)
13:49<+glx>php likes to complicate simple stuff anyway
13:50<LordAro>but ultimately, i'd say a parser does need to replicate php's behaviour
13:50<TrueBrain>I completely and fully disagree :)
13:50<TrueBrain>it needs to output good HTML
13:50<LordAro>actual bugs, sure, leave those. but language 'design decisions' should be followed
13:51<TrueBrain>good luck finding any "design decision" with mediawiki :P
13:51<TrueBrain>it is all ... "what is implemented"
13:51<LordAro>well, yes
13:51<TrueBrain>even their versions from one version to the other can render different things
13:51<LordAro>that's what the quotes were signifying
13:51<TrueBrain>so it is easy to say from a distance these kind of things, but reality is a whole lot more suckier :)
13:51<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master https://git.io/JTlKk
13:51<DorpsGek_III> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
13:52<TrueBrain>there are many things in our wiki that are easier to fix and simply no longer allow, than to implement the PHP behaviour
13:52<TrueBrain>like this "0" .. fixing it in the template is a lot more effective :)
13:52<TrueBrain>the other lovely thing is: when to escape in URLs .. which is completely random, by the looks
13:52<LordAro>i don't doubt
13:53<LordAro>but something like empty("0") == true should be followed
13:53<TrueBrain>"should" ..
13:53<TrueBrain>please, sod off :P
13:54<LordAro>you're the one that wants to accurately reproduce the output!
13:54<TrueBrain>something something, high horse, something something .. andythenorth , I have a new NewGRF idea for you :D
13:54<TrueBrain>no, LordAro , I do not; I want to validate that my renderer renders our wiki correctly after conversion
13:54<LordAro>that's not a mediawiki paraer weirdness, that's a fundamental part of php
13:54<TrueBrain>there are several ways to reach that goal
13:54<LordAro>parser*
13:54<TrueBrain>you are either being a total dick, or totally misunderstood what I was running into
13:54<TrueBrain>so let me run it again by you, and you can pick :D
13:55<TrueBrain>{{Template|0}} is called
13:55<TrueBrain>Template reads: {{1}}
13:55<TrueBrain>Mediawiki outputs ""
13:55<TrueBrain>my render outputs "0"
13:55<TrueBrain>this is, most likely, due to the fact they use PHP and empty("0") == "" or something silly (I do not know, I have not checked their code)
13:55<TrueBrain>only question is: is "" correct or "0" correct
13:55<LordAro>right
13:56*frosch123 votes for "0"
13:56<LordAro>i thought it was the other way around
13:56<LordAro>-/+ do not make it clear :p
13:56<TrueBrain>- is mediawiki, + is my render, of course :) How else do you compare? Old -> new, right? :D
13:57<TrueBrain>anyway, I assumed you weren't being a total dick, no worries :)
13:57<TrueBrain>it is just this wikitext parser called "mediawiki" ... and our version being ANCIENT ... it is starting to get the better of me :P
13:58<TrueBrain>-<a href="/%d0%9d%d0%b0%d1%81%d1%82%d1%80%d0%be%d0%b9%d0%ba%d0%b8_%d0%98%d0%98/ru" title="настройки ии/ru">
13:58<TrueBrain>+<a href="/%d0%9d%d0%b0%d1%81%d1%82%d1%80%d0%be%d0%b9%d0%ba%d0%b8_%d0%b8%d0%b8/ru" title="настройки ии/ru">
13:58<frosch123>oh, i would bet on current mediawiki still behaving that stupid
13:58<TrueBrain>these diffs crack me up too :)
13:59<TrueBrain>(uppercase vs lowercase)
14:01<TrueBrain>I do understand why wikitext never became a standard, and that markdown exists, btw
14:01<LordAro>TrueBrain: i can't see any difference there at all
14:02<TrueBrain>LordAro: %d0%98 -> %d0%b8, after the _
14:02<TrueBrain>9 vs b
14:02<TrueBrain>took me a texteditor highlight to find that
14:02<LordAro>ah, that's the last character on the line of my current terminal
14:02<LordAro>which is why i missed it
14:03<TrueBrain>also something I cannot seem to get right, when the "alt" text of an image is the filename and when not
14:03<TrueBrain>I gave up .. who cares anyway ..
14:04<TrueBrain>also "fun", mediawiki renders <pre> blocks in <code> blocks :)
14:05<TrueBrain>-<span style="width:0%; height:2px; background:#7fff00; float:left">
14:05<TrueBrain>+<span style="width:0.0%; height:2px; background:#7fff00; float:left">
14:05<TrueBrain>ah ... / vs //
14:05<LordAro>frosch123: fyi, with mediawiki 1.31, i get the '0'
14:05<frosch123>aw :)
14:06<LordAro>hence, a bug that shouldn't be replicated :p
14:06<LordAro>i wasn't wrong!
14:06<TrueBrain>lolz :P
14:06<TrueBrain>I have to say this, but know I am smiling: dickhead
14:06<LordAro>love you too, TrueBrain
14:06<TrueBrain>:D
14:06<TrueBrain>that was funny :)
14:07<TrueBrain>but good to know they also notice it was a garbage thing to do :P
14:07<LordAro>since i'm now at a computer again, i will do a bit more on the release workflow
14:07<TrueBrain>I like I keep finding bugs this way :) Took for-ever to write the compare script, but it is nice it shows me what I am doing wrong
14:07<TrueBrain>LordAro: \o/
14:08<TrueBrain>owh, I really have to do something with the <nowiki> stuff ...
14:08<TrueBrain>I just hope wikitextparse does something with it :P
14:08<TrueBrain>I honestly do not know :)
14:09<TrueBrain>plenty of tests mentioning it
14:09<TrueBrain>so I tihnk it does
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14:12<TrueBrain>-<table border="1" class="wikitable sortable">
14:12<TrueBrain>+<table border="1" padding="4" class="wikitable sortable">
14:12<TrueBrain>how ... just .. why ..
14:12<LordAro>TrueBrain: https://github.com/actions/checkout/issues/334 found this
14:13<TrueBrain>well, you are not alone, that is good
14:14<TrueBrain>still curious if it does work with newer Ubuntus
14:14<TrueBrain>as the amd64 did work in your build
14:14<LordAro>apparently not - i386/ubuntu:18.04 had some problem
14:14<TrueBrain>I wonder if it is an issue where a syscall cannot be executed
14:14<TrueBrain>or something in those lines
14:15<TrueBrain>and 20.04?
14:15<TrueBrain>worth a shot possibly?
14:15<LordAro>i386/ubuntu:20.04 doesn't exist
14:15<TrueBrain>so why is mediawiki ignoring "padding", I wonder ..
14:15<LordAro>which is why i never added it to CompileFarm :p
14:15<TrueBrain>it doesn't? Awh ... I assumed they would have made it :P
14:15<TrueBrain>dist-upgrade an 18.04 :P
14:15<TrueBrain>no, just kidding
14:16<TrueBrain>what is a bit odd that you can execute the "apt update" etc
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14:16<LordAro>well we had to - cached apt packages got too out of date for the mirrors
14:16<TrueBrain>but really .. a checkout on the host is most likely your solution, as I think the cmake will also just work
14:17<TrueBrain>yes, you have to; what I mention, is that it is odd that you can execute apt update, but the actions/checkout doesn't work
14:17<TrueBrain>so the docker is working, and responding okay
14:17<TrueBrain>it is somehow the way actions/checkout interacts with it, that is the issue, it seems
14:17<LordAro>it's really difficult to do mixed host/container commands though, as far as i can tell?
14:18<LordAro>there's some comments in linked issues that suggest that it's due to node being missing in the container
14:18<TrueBrain>install it and find out :P
14:18<LordAro>that's my next step :)
14:18<LordAro>step after that is to work out why FindVersion.cmake is not working
14:19<TrueBrain>because git is too old
14:19<TrueBrain>we have been over that, haven't we? :D
14:19<LordAro>it's returning a result that suggests that git doesn't exist at all (.git dir doesn't)
14:19<TrueBrain>yes ...
14:19<TrueBrain>because you used an old git, and it fetched an archive
14:20<TrueBrain>check the run results, the checkout step
14:20<TrueBrain>it mentions it in there
14:20<LordAro>oooh
14:20<LordAro>yes, that makes sense
14:20<TrueBrain>not the first time we have this conversation about that :P :D
14:20<TrueBrain>this is why I suggest the checkout on host :) Can't you set per step if it needs to run in the container or something?
14:20<LordAro>it's a very confusing fallback behaviour!
14:20<TrueBrain>it is
14:20<TrueBrain>and I would rather have it just fails
14:21<LordAro>i don't think so, as far as i can tell from the docs
14:21<TrueBrain>If you do not set a container, all steps will run directly on the host specified by runs-on unless a step refers to an action configured to run in a container.
14:21<TrueBrain>so it is possible, but how .. hmm
14:21<TrueBrain>and yes, docs are not clear :P
14:22<TrueBrain>owh, an action can be a Dockerfile
14:22<TrueBrain>right, forgot about that
14:22<LordAro>https://github.com/LordAro/OpenTTD/runs/1271828244?check_suite_focus=true and then these this one
14:22<LordAro>s/these/there's/
14:23<TrueBrain>install ca-certifications :)
14:23<LordAro>good call
14:23<LordAro>curious that it's only required for that one though
14:23<TrueBrain>git clone https: ..
14:23<TrueBrain>apt normally uses http still
14:23<TrueBrain>you need to install .. https-transport ?
14:23<TrueBrain>to fix that
14:25<TrueBrain>https://github.com/github/actions-cheat-sheet/blob/master/actions-cheat-sheet.adoc#workflow-syntax
14:25<LordAro>yeah, i thought it might be that
14:25<TrueBrain>it seems you can do: make a single job to do a checkout, and use that for the others
14:25<TrueBrain>might even save a bit of time :D
14:26<TrueBrain>I think it requires you to stash the source btw
14:26<TrueBrain>not sure
14:26<TrueBrain>I know it does share some data automatically
14:26<TrueBrain>bit of trying, lot of `run: ls` steps, etc
14:27<LordAro>aye
14:27<LordAro>thanks :)
14:28<LordAro>dunno how that will work with a matrix either
14:28<LordAro>don't exactly want multiple dockers trying to compile the same sources :p
14:28<TrueBrain>make the build folder out-of-tree and you will be fine
14:29<TrueBrain>mkdir /build
14:29<TrueBrain>:P
14:29<LordAro>ha
14:29<TrueBrain>I love cmake for this :)
14:30<TrueBrain>hmm .. can I make a sed that removes all spaces from the style attribute alone? :D
14:44<TrueBrain>made .. something .. for that, lol
14:44<TrueBrain>it is ugly :D Who cares .. just to test stuff :)
14:47<LordAro>TrueBrain: i386 containers fail when downloading artifacts in the same way as they do when trying to checkout repo :p
14:47<TrueBrain>:(
14:47<TrueBrain>other solution is a tiny bit more meh
14:48<TrueBrain>but you can make a Dockerfile in os/linux or what-ever
14:48<TrueBrain>which does the installing, and an entrypoint which does the cmake
14:48<TrueBrain>what is in CompileFarm basically
14:48<TrueBrain>and you can do "uses: ./os/linux/bla"
14:48<TrueBrain>which will build and run the Dockerfile
14:48<TrueBrain>it is really meh
14:52<TrueBrain>mod.c3.a8le_d.27acc.c3.a9l.c3.a9ration_des_trains
14:52<TrueBrain>:D
14:52<LordAro>how curious
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14:59<TrueBrain>time to overload our wiki again ... the API is freaking slow :P
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15:01<TrueBrain>sometimes I get OSError: [Errno 101] Network is unreachable
15:01<TrueBrain>not sure .. what to think of that
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15:05<frosch123>are you using a bot account?
15:07<TrueBrain>no
15:07<TrueBrain>should I? :)
15:08<frosch123>who knows, it's php
15:08<TrueBrain>I now use a session; that is already a huge improvement
15:08<TrueBrain>1 socket to do everything with :)
15:09<TrueBrain>so much pages are just absolute crap
15:09<TrueBrain>both from a content, but also from a structure
15:12<TrueBrain>still some tables that fail parsing
15:12<TrueBrain>some places where I parse a list, and mediawiki does not
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15:13<TrueBrain>and I absolutely LOVE how things like {{{updated}}} is also translated into all the languages ...... lol
15:13<TrueBrain>can we agree to keep all variables and functions just in english? :)
15:14<frosch123>we can only make the english pages look good. translators have to fix the rest by hand
15:15<LordAro>TrueBrain: https://github.com/actions/runner/blob/2709cbc0eae592e6004b016c52c04382f19c7683/src/Runner.Worker/Handlers/StepHost.cs#L126-L161 so i found why it is the way that it is
15:15<TrueBrain>owh, so the error was not from the line above
15:15<TrueBrain>makes sense .. lol
15:16<TrueBrain>just to check for node12 or node12_alpine ..sounds sane :P
15:17<LordAro>mm
15:17<TrueBrain>frosch123: I am also scanning other languages, and even categories now I see, to check for my render .. but yeah, I was hoping to avoid fixing other languages :D
15:18<LordAro>not sure why that works for the x64 containers though... am investigating..
15:18<TrueBrain>I am basically just hitting every URL in your full.json :P
15:18<LordAro>https://github.com/LordAro/OpenTTD/runs/1271808860?check_suite_focus=true this is a bit broken
15:18<TrueBrain>btw, LordAro , in case you missed it: there is a TODO in the part that should produce .deb files in CMake
15:19<TrueBrain>seems nobody really implemented it / tested it
15:19<TrueBrain>just so I have said it explicit :D
15:19<LordAro>TrueBrain: i was intending on testing the debs before making a PR :p
15:19<LordAro>but i am a long way from that yet :p
15:20<LordAro>interestingly, none of the containers have a `node12`
15:20<LordAro>so why is it working for some of them..
15:20<TrueBrain>not sure it needs it .. :P
15:20<TrueBrain>you can fake the /etc files and see what that does? :D
15:20<LordAro>it's nothing to do with the /etc files
15:21<LordAro>other than the alpine switch
15:21<LordAro>it must actually be failing in the calling function
15:21<TrueBrain>frosch123: do you also have a json of pages (on their original URL) you are keeping?
15:21<TrueBrain>or are we keeping them all currently?
15:21<TrueBrain>"xargs: unmatched double quote; by default quotes are special to xargs unless you use the -0 option" <- pfft, what a way to go :(
15:22<frosch123>TrueBrain: fullmap contains everything that is not in redirects.json, trash.json or in one of the namespaces i ignore (user pages, talk pages, mediawiki/internal pages)
15:23<TrueBrain>ah .. I am using "jq" to read the JSON, so matching stuff is not easy :P
15:23<frosch123>trash.json will grow slightly, but not much
15:23<TrueBrain>I don't have trash.json atm, but that will be fine :)
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15:27<TrueBrain>meh, to get ride of the capital issue, I need to do a lookup after all .. bah
15:28<frosch123>doesn't my conversion fix all capitalisation issues?
15:28<TrueBrain>I dunno; I am testing against the live site atm, as because of the changes, it was very hard to validate HTML
15:28<TrueBrain>(I am checking the live HTML with the rendered one, basically)
15:29<TrueBrain>meant I had to rewrite the URLs again :P
15:32<+glx>LordAro: wouldn't it be better to build source package with cmake and use that in containers ?
15:34<LordAro>not significantly
15:40<LordAro>https://github.com/LordAro/OpenTTD/runs/1271999934?check_suite_focus=true#step:3:35
15:40<LordAro>GOTCHA
15:41<LordAro>of course a x86 container can't execute a 64bit binary
15:41<TrueBrain>I believe I mentioned earlier that it looks like invalid syscalls :P
15:41<TrueBrain>bit silly of a GitHub Runner to do this, I guess
15:42<TrueBrain>means you cannot execute node-actions on a container
15:42<TrueBrain>but you can do "run"
15:42<TrueBrain>and most likely Dockerfiles
15:42<TrueBrain>but as your git is too old anyway, this is a problem left or right :)
15:43<LordAro>it'd be easier to make it work if it didn't hardcode a magical mysterious path
15:43<TrueBrain>_w is workspace on host
15:44<LordAro>well that removes the need to use upload/download artifacts
15:44<LordAro>kinda hacky and all "using undocumented features", but eh
15:44<TrueBrain>still not sure how you are going to get over the git-version issue :)
15:45<LordAro>well i can do the checkout on host
15:45<LordAro>git version isn't an issue for cmake
15:45<+glx>oh and as I think the workspace is shared for all containers you can't use the same "build" dir
15:46<LordAro>mkdir build${{matrix.container}}
15:46<LordAro>fixed.
15:46<LordAro>:p
15:46<TrueBrain>at least put a - in there
15:51<andythenorth>oof naming of things
15:52*andythenorth Port vs. Wharf
15:52<andythenorth>completely not obvious
15:56<LordAro>CMake Error at /usr/share/cmake-3.5/Modules/TestBigEndian.cmake:51
15:56<LordAro>i'll be honest, i wasn't expecting that
15:57<TrueBrain>ha, lol, no :)
15:57<TrueBrain>hmm, even if I look up what the correct name is for wiki pages, even than I have a diff because of casing difference
15:58<TrueBrain>wuthhhhh
16:00<TrueBrain>ah, redirects .. ugh
16:01<TrueBrain>there we go
16:02<TrueBrain>another thing I haven't figured out .. sometimes it makes [1] from link-text
16:03<TrueBrain>no clue when/why/how
16:05<TrueBrain>okay, first 20 pages validate fully now .. \o/
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16:25<TrueBrain>okay .. ran 1100 pages .. 680 pass, 450 have a diff, and 25 fail to render .. over 50% done, I guess :P
16:27<TrueBrain>+<a href="/user:0" title="user:0">
16:27<TrueBrain>+0</a>
16:27<TrueBrain>lol .. guess why that happened :P
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16:52<andythenorth>uff
16:52<andythenorth>or uuff
17:04<supermop_Home_>ok
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17:21<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: that sounds like "Error Code: 0. No Error"
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---Logclosed Mon Oct 19 00:00:49 2020