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#openttd IRC Logs for 2020-11-21

---Logopened Sat Nov 21 00:00:37 2020
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02:38<andythenorth>when is this in the game?
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03:21<andythenorth>nielsm hi :)
03:23<longtomjr>morning andy. Did you have any breakthroughs yesterday evening?
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03:31<andythenorth>a couple yes
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03:47<andythenorth>I can drop some goals, and focus on making the result look better
03:47<andythenorth>pretty standard outcome TBH
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04:15<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/bananas-server] TrueBrain commented on pull request #37: Add: support more than one CDN url
04:46<LordAro>lol @ translator request
04:50<andythenorth>hmm faster nml anyone? o_O
04:57<LordAro>done any profiling recently?
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05:00<andythenorth>not of Horse or nml no
05:01<andythenorth>I suspect I should just buy a new computer
05:01<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/bananas-server] LordAro approved pull request #37: Add: support more than one CDN url
05:02<andythenorth>TBH it's not usually a problem, the cycle time is ok
05:03<andythenorth>but I am testing company colour remap sprites, changing 1 colour at a time to get a nice visual result
05:03<andythenorth>and compile time is 30s :P
05:12<andythenorth>lol making optimised versions of colours like Purple
05:12<andythenorth>such a horrible colour anyway :)
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05:38<andythenorth>orange is really the worst CC range
05:38<andythenorth>it's got no contrast
05:38<andythenorth>orange is a very odd colour
05:38<Wolf01>Yeah, it's stupid
05:39<Wolf01>You even say orange when you meant tangerine and vice versa
05:40<andythenorth>is clementine a colour?
05:40<andythenorth>lego orange is also hideous
05:40<andythenorth>although lime is the worst
05:41<Wolf01>The real problem with orange is that it's reddish brown... or yellow, I can't decide which orange to use when I need it
05:42<andythenorth>generally the answer is "don't"
05:42<andythenorth>except for switch handles
05:43<andythenorth>cream is also an unpleasant CC
05:43<andythenorth>it looks like the food chunks from vomit
05:44<Wolf01>Yeah... thank you to set me in "I won't eat lunch today until I unsee it" mode
05:45<andythenorth>service is free
05:45<andythenorth>although I am reconsidering my breakfast now oof
05:46<andythenorth>green is pretty bad
05:46<andythenorth>dark green and pale green are very nice
05:46<Wolf01>The dark one?
05:48<Wolf01>Hmmm. TrueBrain: 404 (first of google results)
05:50<Wolf01>A thing which makes me think about the extreme complexity of human life is "how do I search in the new OpenTTD manual?"
06:10<andythenorth>or we could index it with elastic search or something and feed results into a search box over XHR
06:10*andythenorth wavey hands
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06:20<Wolf01><andythenorth> google <- I tried, 404
06:21<andythenorth>this subtle colour remapping is quite nice
06:21*andythenorth wonders if base game should implement it
06:22<frosch123>given how much they crawl, i expected the search engines to update earlier
06:22*andythenorth thinks newgrf is probably best
06:22<andythenorth>Wolf01 try Bing
06:22<frosch123>duckduck is also funny. searching for "github truewiki" finds longtom*r creating an issue there, but not the real repo
06:22<andythenorth>Google indexing is currently sporadic, as far as I can see
06:23<andythenorth>I've had some pages picked up within 1 hour and go to top of SERPs
06:23<Wolf01><andythenorth> Wolf01 try Bing <- same
06:23<andythenorth>but validation of failed pages is taking ages
06:23<andythenorth>and indexing requests are disabled in Search Console
06:23<andythenorth>since October
06:23<andythenorth>have we got a Site Map?
06:24<frosch123>oh, since october? so it's political?
06:24<andythenorth>I assumed technical fuck up but eh
06:24<andythenorth>do we have accounts on Google Search Console and Bing?
06:24<Wolf01> <- 1st comment wins
06:24<andythenorth>if we want to use Google as search, it might need managed
06:24<frosch123>no, we want to use duckduck
06:25<frosch123>it's the only option when you want to impose it on others
06:25<andythenorth>red trains really could go faster
06:27<Wolf01>We could really give companies different bonuses based on CC, red: faster vehicles, green: lower maintenance costs, blue: cheaper purchases...
06:29<Wolf01>And disable CC change in game, what you get you get
06:29<andythenorth>newgrf CB to forcibly set player CC
06:29<andythenorth>oof :)
06:33<frosch123>how much xp do you need to unlock red cc?
06:35<Wolf01>Active member in forum for 5 years
06:37<andythenorth>fair point
06:37<andythenorth>the tank game has player colours
06:38<andythenorth>70% elite players are purple
06:38<andythenorth>60% are blue
06:38<andythenorth>everyone else is other colours
06:38<andythenorth>less than average are red tomatoes
06:42<Wolf01>I'm going to paint a tank pink in TMS, I'm still deciding which one
06:43<Wolf01>Maybe a Pz.III Ausf.J
06:51<andythenorth>paint a hetzer
06:51<andythenorth>paint a Maus!
06:51<Wolf01>Maus won't be in game, not enough space inside workshop
06:52<Wolf01>Hetzer maybe next year with custom tanks support
06:52<andythenorth>modding pack: bigger workshop
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07:18<andythenorth>oof last company colour reshading nearly done
07:18<andythenorth>2 hours of waiting for compiles :P
07:45<longtomjr>Oh, just saw something you might be interested in andythenorth
07:46<Wolf01>I still have to find something of which he wouldn't be interested in :P
07:46<longtomjr>Some of the RVs from polroad has three cargo-subtype options. Random-livery, standard 2cc livery, real life based livery
07:47<andythenorth>yeah AV8 has 4 liveries for planes similarly
07:47<longtomjr>That might be another way to go about this
07:47<andythenorth>I just think the subtypes API for liveries was broken when cargos were added to it
07:47<longtomjr>Maybe you can do something like that for the engines. `1cc livery, 2cc livery`
07:48<longtomjr>And then the player can choose if they want 1cc engines, and use 2cc for the wagons
07:48<longtomjr>or if they want 2cc for the engine, and default color for the wagons or something
07:52<andythenorth>I'm going to avoid the subtypes :)
07:52<andythenorth>I've used it a few times, and it never works well
07:53<longtomjr>hehe, sorry for bringing it up again. I just saw it in game and thought it were an interesting approach to solve the problem
07:53<andythenorth>I'm going to keep it simple, wagons will just use 1cc and 2cc, even in groups
07:53<andythenorth>but I'll do a parameter so players can over-ride group 1cc and 2cc if they really want to, to one choice each
07:54<andythenorth>ideally I'd just be able to read the wagon CC settings from the client
07:54<andythenorth>but I can't
07:55<longtomjr>btw, I don't know if you are interested in doing it, but I have been thinking about forking IH to just have a wagon set
07:55<andythenorth>I wondered if someone would
07:55<andythenorth>to add on to other grfs
07:55<longtomjr>Yep, since the wagons from IH is really really good. And there are some wagons there that is not in other sets
07:55<andythenorth>it would need to be a 3rd party fork
07:56<andythenorth>not me :)
07:56<longtomjr>hehe, I might do that when I get some time, or when we want to run a game where we need it.
07:57<longtomjr>Thinking of doing a subtropics themed multiplayer game again after our Russia + East europe game is done. And then I would like to have some extra wagons to go with the Tropical renewal set.
07:57<longtomjr>I want to try out the new FIRS4 economy
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08:07<andythenorth>it's quite intense, Steeltown FIRS 4
08:08<longtomjr>I have played with steeltown firs4 previously
08:08<longtomjr>but I want to try the In a Hot Country
08:12<andythenorth>it's ok
08:12<andythenorth>it's unchanged from v3 mostly
08:12<andythenorth>it's a bit boring, everything is just export
08:12<longtomjr>I liked the one in v3
08:13<longtomjr>It plays differently from extreme and steeltown
08:25<andythenorth>it's just a bit limited because I tried to make it realistic to W. Africa
08:25<andythenorth>instead of having a gameplay theme
08:27<longtomjr>I like the export focus, especially with a nice heightmap, where you have a bunch of inland farm areas, and then a dry coast where you have to take the processed food to for exports
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08:47<andythenorth>I did have some test code for controlling vehicle properties using vehicles as the bits
08:48<andythenorth>by flipping, it's possible to create a useful bitmap, as long as there are 4 or more vehicles
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10:16<andythenorth>OpenTTD > JGRPP continues
10:16<andythenorth>at what point do we just relabel?
10:16<andythenorth>OpenTTD Legacy
10:17<andythenorth>and OpenTTD
10:33<Wolf01>Last time I've seen the use of "laden" was on Monty Python and the Holy Grail...
10:34<Wolf01>Also Bin Laden, but I don't think it has the same meaning
10:35<andythenorth>we could just cut OpenTTD releases from JGR upstream instead of openttd/master?
10:35<andythenorth>would it be major version bump?
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12:13<milek7>I'm dumb
12:13<milek7>I need some sort of graph that plots GB downloaded vs GB stored
12:14<milek7>so I could read from it eg. "x GB of stored data accounts for y GB of used bandwidth"
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12:33<andythenorth>newrgf settings won't be per player
12:34<andythenorth>so setting base colour for wagons in a parameter
12:34<andythenorth>is a stupid thing to do on MP servers :|
12:35<frosch123>are you sure people interested in liveries play mp?
12:36<andythenorth>NFI :)
12:36<milek7>"If the transfer takes too long, it is best to try to do the upload at another time of day."
12:36<milek7>that's... not encouraging (hetzner)
12:36<longtomjr>We have a multiplayer server, and 20-40 % of gameplay is menus and liveries
12:37<frosch123>one company coop or multiple conpanies?
12:37<longtomjr>multi company co-op
12:37<longtomjr>with infrastructure sharing
12:37<andythenorth>frosch123 newgrf var for the livery bollocks settings?
12:38<andythenorth>but...then we can never delete those settings :P
12:38<frosch123>andythenorth: there is little reason in having more livery settings than vehicles in your game
12:39<frosch123>per wagon painting becomes more reasonable
12:39<andythenorth>this was so combinatorial to try and code in params / magic
12:39<andythenorth>I think I've simplified it and eliminated a lot of choices
12:40<andythenorth>random more / less / none is orthogonal to the actual colours, which is better
12:40<andythenorth>choosing the colours in grf param is just a crude solution to setting wagon colour for groups
12:44<andythenorth>I was going to do some kind of automatic realism option
12:44<andythenorth>like grey wagons before 1940, then brown, then cc
12:45<andythenorth>but it's boring to code, boring to play
12:46*andythenorth considers checking game date for April 1 and doing rainbows
12:46<andythenorth>CC seems quite aggressively cached, not sure if it will work :)
12:47<longtomjr>lol the longer daylength games may still see it :P
12:51<andythenorth>frosch123 3rd company colour solves all this madness :D
12:51<andythenorth>and fits in group livery UI
12:51<andythenorth>oh frosch123 retired, I keep forgetting :D
12:55<frosch123>if you use spritestacks, the recolouring is not chaced
12:55<frosch123>you can change it on every vehicle movement
12:56<frosch123>ah, you implemented wagon aging and colour fading
12:57<andythenorth>it looks that way
12:57<andythenorth>I didn't actually do aging :P
12:58<andythenorth>so what madness could I do with spritestacks?
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13:17<andythenorth>this will do for now
13:26<frosch123>do you have a setting for "royal sovereigns livery"? (what even is that)
13:30<andythenorth>I considered it
13:30<andythenorth>and I don't know
13:31<andythenorth>I have a fake version of that engine
13:31<andythenorth>stats are all 'wrong' though
13:31<andythenorth>hmm shall I start a patchpack?
13:32<frosch123>too bad. i thought we could answer that guy: use horse, set parameter 2, 3 and 7 to values 5, 10 and 4. attach 3 wagons of y to engine x, ctrl+click the 2nd and 3rd wagon, and then you have the livery you want
13:33<frosch123>make a css patchpack. colour trains using css
13:33<andythenorth>if you prefix the instructions with 'go to github and fork Iron Horse'
13:33<andythenorth>probably fine
13:34<andythenorth>this stuff looks remarkably like the LESS theming of 2 css frameworks I maintain :P
13:34<andythenorth>theme vars, modified by python and injected to the LESS at compile time
13:34<andythenorth>css editing inside OpenTTD? o_O
13:35<frosch123>i considered adding a http server to ottd, and offer a newgrf debugger on localhost:8000 or somethign
13:36<andythenorth>tweak company colours directly :P
13:37<andythenorth>if I can find the right byte
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15:17<andythenorth>frosch123 these cc livery settings :)
15:17<andythenorth>all passenger coaches use 'passenger coach (steam)' in buy menu
15:17<andythenorth>and mail vans also use same
15:18<andythenorth>I can set EMU and DMU colours, but only for engines, not any matching wagons
15:18<andythenorth>hysterical raisins
15:20<frosch123>it even does that for maglev wagons :)
15:44<andythenorth>remove remove remove :P
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15:45<andythenorth>oh frosch removed frosch :(
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16:23<milek7>do you think it's necessary to make backups of data stored on backblaze b2?
16:37<andythenorth>any data you can't afford to lose, you need multiple backups
16:38<andythenorth>using different strategies
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17:02<milek7>"can't afford to lose" is tough distinction to make
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17:09<milek7>like, does bananas content is stored somewhere else than s3?
17:38<LordAro>TB's probably got a backup somewhere
17:38<LordAro>but if s3 disappears, the world has bigger problems
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18:02<milek7>I've got my magic plot
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---Logclosed Sun Nov 22 00:00:38 2020