| --- | Log | opened Mon Jan 04 00:00:40 2021 |
| 00:12 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler commented on pull request #8495: Feature: Prevent tunnels from being built under extractive industries https://git.io/JLFZH |
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| 01:01 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #8495: Feature: Prevent tunnels from being built under extractive industries https://git.io/JLFcZ |
| 01:03 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #8495: Feature: Prevent tunnels from being built under extractive industries https://git.io/JLFcC |
| 01:13 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #8495: Feature: Prevent tunnels from being built under extractive industries https://git.io/JLFco |
| 01:28 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #8495: Feature: Prevent tunnels from being built under extractive industries https://git.io/JLFCG |
| 01:46 | <Heiki> | oh, realism |
| 01:52 | <reldred> | muh realisms |
| 01:52 | <reldred> | muh immershuns |
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| 03:07 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] erenes commented on issue #8194: Releases from version 1.10.1 no longer work on mid-2007 iMac https://git.io/JfMJz |
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| 03:15 | <andythenorth> | is cat? |
| 03:19 | <reldred> | cats are good yes |
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| 04:07 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro dismissed a review for pull request #8452: Doc: Add labels to landscape grid description. https://git.io/JL555 |
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| 04:54 | <andythenorth> | lol things that will never get old |
| 04:54 | <andythenorth> | people in forums (not just tt-forums) posting 'is there any news in this thread since last post' |
| 04:55 | <andythenorth> | it's nice for morons to self-identify |
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| 05:18 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on issue #8194: Releases from version 1.10.1 no longer work on mid-2007 iMac https://git.io/JfMJz |
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| 05:51 | <Borg> | howdy..... |
| 05:51 | * | Borg cries |
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| 05:54 | <Borg> | any YAPF experts around? I have like a path w/ 4000 penalty.. and those litle bastards still prefers it.. ;) |
| 05:54 | <Borg> | lets see if 6000 will discourage them... |
| 05:55 | <Borg> | not really.... wttttf |
| 05:55 | <Borg> | and even if path is blocked... they want to go there... |
| 05:55 | <Borg> | like wtf^3 |
| 05:56 | <LordAro> | you are absolutely on your own when fiddling with yapf penalty values |
| 05:56 | <Borg> | why? :) |
| 05:59 | <Borg> | I noticed 2 oddities w/ penalites generally.. |
| 05:59 | <Borg> | big penalty makes path unusuable.. |
| 05:59 | <Borg> | its never selected. |
| 06:00 | <Borg> | even if everything is blocked.. completly.. w/ is weird. because I couldnt find that in code |
| 06:01 | <Borg> | okey.. 9000 made it... |
| 06:01 | <Borg> | not fully of course.. still some trains go to aux path.. where pri is free |
| 06:01 | <Borg> | and its not blocked... |
| 06:01 | <Borg> | lets enable pathfinder display |
| 06:03 | <Borg> | what was it? |
| 06:04 | <Borg> | okey found it |
| 06:04 | <Borg> | what was pf.reserve_paths was for? |
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| 06:06 | <Borg> | ahh always reserve path.. |
| 06:09 | <Borg> | okey.. time to RTFS again.. and debuglevel yapf=3 |
| 06:11 | <Samu> | hello |
| 06:12 | <Borg> | oki doki.. nice.. |
| 06:12 | <Borg> | lets read |
| 06:14 | <+michi_cc> | You don't happen to have two-way signals somewhere, do you? |
| 06:14 | <+michi_cc> | Any maybe two_eol on? |
| 06:16 | <Borg> | michi_cc: nope.. I dont use two-way signals at all.. and two_eol is off |
| 06:16 | <Borg> | I just use PBS + oneway block |
| 06:16 | <Borg> | michi_cc: wanna screenshot? |
| 06:17 | <Borg> | and I use trick w/ PBS back signals.. to influence pathfinder.. to have primary path and auxliary path |
| 06:19 | <Borg> | hmm train going to aux path.. cost is 23568.. still selected |
| 06:20 | <Borg> | distance is 0 |
| 06:20 | <Borg> | its always 0.. not used in YAPF? |
| 06:24 | <Borg> | now.. when I have 9000 penalty over aux path.. pri is finaly selected.. with cost 14272 |
| 06:24 | <Borg> | so.. aux path cost is now sth like 26000+ |
| 06:24 | <Borg> | BIG difference.. |
| 06:24 | <Borg> | so... 14272 vs 24000 yet... 24000 is selected.. why? |
| 06:25 | <Borg> | I was studing that code.. few times.. and seems cost is importand part of path selection.. of course. if path is blocked by train... anything is better.. |
| 06:26 | <Borg> | but if 2 paths are empty.. not reserved by other trains... we have 14272 vs 24000 and yet.. 24000 is selected |
| 06:26 | <Borg> | with is completly weird to me.. |
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| 06:37 | <Borg> | how path cache works? |
| 06:46 | <Borg> | okey. I found the reason.. with makes me even more puzzzled |
| 06:46 | <Borg> | station18113094 |
| 06:46 | <Borg> | PBS17823568 |
| 06:46 | <Borg> | fuck |
| 06:46 | <Borg> | wrong past.. |
| 06:47 | <Borg> | at station, I have cost 13094, but later on that path.. on first PBS signal cost is 23568 |
| 06:47 | <Borg> | how is that possible? |
| 06:49 | <Borg> | okey.. got entire dump... |
| 06:49 | <Borg> | for whole path it looks like this |
| 06:50 | <Borg> | cost: 13094 -> 23568 -> 22852 -> (passing 2x PBS back signals, 6000 penalty) -> 9381 |
| 07:12 | <Borg> | noone? :) |
| 07:13 | <Borg> | and yeah.. whole path is <10 signals.. so signal look ahead.. should kick in |
| 07:19 | <LordAro> | TrueBrain: https://github.com/presslabs/gitfs |
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| 07:25 | <Borg> | what is... segment in pathfinder? |
| 07:47 | <Borg> | another oddity.. |
| 07:47 | <Borg> | when I increase look_ahead_signals = 20 |
| 07:47 | <Borg> | correct path is selected |
| 07:47 | <Borg> | if (n.m_num_signals_passed >= m_sig_look_ahead_costs.Size() / 2) return 0; |
| 07:47 | <Borg> | in ReservationCost() function |
| 07:48 | <Borg> | wonder why its half of its size |
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| 07:54 | <FLHerne> | Borg: I think 'segment' is a section of plain track between junctions/signals |
| 07:55 | <FLHerne> | So the pathfinder can treat it as a single unit |
| 07:55 | <Borg> | FLHerne: I doubt it.... in code I see stuff like this: |
| 07:55 | <Borg> | segment_cost += Yapf().SignalCost(n, cur.tile, cur.td); |
| 07:55 | <Borg> | all look ahead signals are added.. |
| 07:56 | <Borg> | there is also one weird thing |
| 07:56 | <Borg> | if (segment_cost > s_max_segment_cost) { |
| 07:56 | <Borg> | with is worrying.. because s_max_segment_cost is hardcoded to 10000 |
| 07:58 | <Borg> | but still.. its weird.. because increasing signals lookup ahead... make it works fine.. so.. im really puzzled |
| 08:07 | <Borg> | okey lets try something stupid |
| 08:08 | <Borg> | as expected.. stupid thing makes things... bad :) |
| 08:12 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #8485: Codechange: improve performance for complex vehicle chains by resolving sprites less often https://git.io/JLF6I |
| 08:17 | <Borg> | okey.. I think I found something.. |
| 08:17 | <Borg> | with badly influences my costs |
| 08:17 | <Borg> | pbs_cross_penalty <- can anyone explain me.. what it really is? |
| 08:18 | <Borg> | I increased it.. so trains nicely move into platforms when there are some corssing occupied |
| 08:18 | <Borg> | but.. it seems now.. it destroy things in other places |
| 08:21 | <Borg> | time to make test tracks |
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| 08:30 | <Borg> | okey its not it.. |
| 08:30 | <Borg> | changing pbs_crossing to default doesnt change anything |
| 08:33 | <Borg> | now.. doing close inspection on paths.. |
| 08:33 | <Borg> | im even more and more puzzled |
| 08:35 | <Borg> | diagnol paths are more expensive? |
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| 08:40 | <Borg> | arfgh! |
| 08:40 | <Borg> | yes they are... |
| 08:41 | <Borg> | and its hardcoded |
| 08:41 | <Borg> | so its best to AVOID them.... |
| 08:44 | <Borg> | okey.. |
| 08:44 | <Borg> | now is all clear why other patch is still prefered.. |
| 08:44 | <Borg> | there is quite long diagonal track in pri path... |
| 08:45 | <Borg> | with gets probably around 1500+ cost |
| 08:45 | <Borg> | what was the reasoning to penalize diagonal tracks? |
| 08:47 | <Borg> | okey. but there is YAPF_TILE_CORNER_LENGTH=71 |
| 08:47 | <Borg> | co its 100 vs 71 |
| 08:48 | <Borg> | so its not actually it |
| 08:55 | <TrueBrain> | LordAro: nice :D We basically build that ourselves, but not on FUSE level :P |
| 08:55 | <LordAro> | indeed not |
| 08:55 | <LordAro> | FUSE level is a bit cursed |
| 08:55 | <TrueBrain> | I rather like that we decide when to commit/push, honestly :) |
| 08:55 | <TrueBrain> | but I understand why they did it :D |
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| 09:10 | <Borg> | guys.. I really need help w/ that |
| 09:10 | <Borg> | Im trying to understand why my short path.. with like 3-4 signals is sooo expensive |
| 09:12 | <LordAro> | Borg: here's what you should do (that i think i've told you before) : |
| 09:12 | <LordAro> | 1) remove all pathfinder settings from your openttd.cfg |
| 09:12 | <LordAro> | 2) don't touch them again |
| 09:12 | <Borg> | thans not the solution |
| 09:12 | <Borg> | because default settings do NOT work |
| 09:13 | <LordAro> | i can almost promise that the number of people who have actually changed any of those settings in a useful way in the last 15 years can be counted on 1 hand |
| 09:13 | <LordAro> | no one knows what those values are, or what they are doing |
| 09:13 | <LordAro> | they work |
| 09:13 | <LordAro> | so don't touch them |
| 09:14 | <SpComb> | MAGIC |
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| 09:16 | <Borg> | okey.. lets set them to default |
| 09:16 | <Borg> | to see what happens.. |
| 09:24 | <Borg> | yeah... MAGIC.... does NOT fucking work.. |
| 09:24 | <Borg> | as expected.. |
| 09:26 | <Borg> | adding 4500 penalty on path.. |
| 09:26 | <Borg> | jaj.. selected.. |
| 09:26 | <Borg> | lets see if its persistent |
| 09:27 | <Borg> | difference between paths cost is very small.. weird |
| 09:27 | <Borg> | aux path have +4500 penalty additionally |
| 09:27 | <Borg> | all default settings |
| 09:27 | <Borg> | is there something obvious I dont see? |
| 09:29 | <andythenorth> | https://youtu.be/e0U29z4iXFo?t=46 |
| 09:30 | <TrueBrain> | I somehow expected to be rickrolled :) |
| 09:30 | <Borg> | 11594 vs 6062.. |
| 09:31 | <Borg> | really.. |
| 09:32 | <Borg> | again.. path w/ cost 11594 selected |
| 09:32 | <Eddi|zuHause> | do they talk about how on patch-day the government has to turn off the projector that simulates the moon on the sky? |
| 09:32 | <Borg> | where 6062 is empty.. no reservations.. green lights.. |
| 09:32 | <TrueBrain> | didn't you hear they are making tinfoilhats mandatory? |
| 09:32 | <Borg> | default settings.. |
| 09:32 | <Eddi|zuHause> | why aren't there any people wearing tinfoil masks |
| 09:32 | <Borg> | I paused and saved |
| 09:32 | <andythenorth> | https://youtu.be/e0U29z4iXFo?t=456 |
| 09:33 | <andythenorth> | "but you hate magic" |
| 09:33 | <andythenorth> | "yes but it has a small carbon footprint" |
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| 09:36 | <Eddi|zuHause> | oh man that's like a conspiracy gold mine :p |
| 09:37 | <Eddi|zuHause> | and this is from 2009? |
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| 09:37 | <Borg> | okey.. so noone wanna take a look at my save? |
| 09:39 | <FLHerne> | Where's your save? |
| 09:40 | <FLHerne> | (if it doesn't have a hundred unobtainable grfs) |
| 09:40 | <Borg> | if (m_pBestDestNode == NULL || n < *m_pBestDestNode) { <- uhm.. n is Node (is it class?) can we do comparision like this? |
| 09:42 | <Borg> | FLHerne: nah, just too small GRFs, they are here: |
| 09:42 | <Borg> | ftp://ds-1.ovh.uu3.net/home/borg/openttd/BSPI.grf |
| 09:42 | <Borg> | ftp://ds-1.ovh.uu3.net/home/borg/openttd/X2025.grf |
| 09:42 | <Eddi|zuHause> | oh, i remember why i made an ignore list... they keep having the obscurest problems and don't take the sane advice |
| 09:43 | <Borg> | save is here: http://node.borg.uu3.net/Rand4.sav |
| 09:44 | <LordAro> | are pathfinder settings even saved? |
| 09:44 | <Eddi|zuHause> | almost certainly |
| 09:44 | <Borg> | yes |
| 09:44 | <Borg> | they are in save game.. but... now they are all default |
| 09:45 | <Borg> | except depot penalty.. |
| 09:45 | <Borg> | with in that case have no meaning |
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| 10:24 | <supermop_Home> | andythenorth ocean water cycle for pool like temperate hotel? |
| 10:30 | <Borg> | FLHerne: hey, are you going to take a look? or no time atm? I have things setup and waiting |
| 10:30 | <Eddi|zuHause> | because pools are known for meter-high waves? |
| 10:32 | <supermop_Home> | Eddi|zuHause the rooftop pool in the temperate base set never looked all that pleasant to swim in |
| 10:32 | <supermop_Home> | though it was one of those things i noticed as a fascinating detail when i was a kid |
| 10:37 | <Timberwolf> | The one that used to drive me made in temperate base was the passenger carriage. |
| 10:37 | <Timberwolf> | The one in arctic/subtropical is so much nicer. |
| 10:39 | <andythenorth> | supermop_Home blue, with a few ocean dots |
| 10:39 | <TrueBrain> | i'm blue daladilada |
| 10:40 | <Borg> | FLHerne: and segment is probably between junction/branches.. can contain many signals... |
| 10:41 | <supermop_Home> | TrueBrain i think it goes da BA di da ba dai |
| 10:42 | <Eddi|zuHause> | some sentences are worse than rickrolling :p |
| 10:42 | <TrueBrain> | turns out it is daba dee ba da die |
| 10:42 | <Eddi|zuHause> | there's a "da" missing |
| 10:42 | <TrueBrain> | la and ba are very hard to differentiate, but yeah |
| 11:03 | <supermop_Home> | i guess landscape architecture is not really my thing - really lackluster groundsprites so far here |
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| 11:11 | <supermop_Home> | andythenorth do you put greenery on the sprite or let grass show through from a baseset tile? |
| 11:11 | <andythenorth> | I draw greenery usually |
| 11:11 | <andythenorth> | depends how terrain dependent I wanted it to be |
| 11:14 | <supermop_Home> | i guess a hotel has a grounds crew |
| 11:15 | <supermop_Home> | do you think there is enough for ogfx now? |
| 11:16 | <FLHerne> | Borg: What's the issue supposed to be, then? |
| 11:16 | <FLHerne> | (sorry, I tend to squeeze in IRC between other things...) |
| 11:17 | <FLHerne> | I have the save open, nothing looks obviously stuck |
| 11:18 | <LordAro> | FLHerne: you should polish your crystal ball |
| 11:20 | <Borg> | okey.. some final tought.. with yapf.rail_look_ahead_max_signals = 10 YAPF is completly not deterministic to play.. in that track layout (default settings or mine settings) |
| 11:21 | <Borg> | changing that to 20.. makes thing works right!! |
| 11:21 | <Borg> | FLHerne: please redownload Rand4_tmp1.sav |
| 11:21 | <Borg> | because I went futher with tests.. |
| 11:21 | <Borg> | so I copied that snapshot.. |
| 11:22 | <Borg> | FLHerne: so if you have time now.. we can go step by step |
| 11:23 | <FLHerne> | ok |
| 11:23 | <Borg> | okey, let me open it too |
| 11:23 | <Borg> | Now locate train 37 |
| 11:23 | <Borg> | also, please set show reserved paths |
| 11:23 | <Borg> | train 37 now selected path is kinda wrong |
| 11:24 | <Borg> | it destination is Pratbourne Halt |
| 11:24 | <Borg> | it should chose that path straight on that junction under bridge |
| 11:24 | <Borg> | its shorter.. it doesnt have 4500 penalty |
| 11:25 | <Borg> | and there is nothing wrong with it.. its also.. EMPTY |
| 11:25 | <Borg> | if you follow the path the train will go now.. |
| 11:25 | <Borg> | you will see PBS signal after bridge and junctions... and 3 PBS back signals |
| 11:25 | <Borg> | this is my aux path.. w/ should be selected rary |
| 11:26 | <Borg> | or just unpase the game.. and track the train |
| 11:26 | <Borg> | will be easier I think |
| 11:26 | <Borg> | if you got it.. you can just unpause the game.. and watch most trains go that way |
| 11:29 | <Borg> | you can also play with: debuglevel yapf=3 |
| 11:29 | <Borg> | and pause game in right moment and check paths costs.. |
| 11:29 | <FLHerne> | I can see it, that is a little odd |
| 11:30 | <Borg> | I still didnt fugured out what is open vs closed |
| 11:30 | <Borg> | yeah.. very odd.. especially. if you cound all signals on path.. they are <10 |
| 11:30 | <Borg> | s/cound/count/ |
| 11:31 | <Borg> | now.. change the setting: yapf.rail_look_ahead_max_signals = 20 |
| 11:32 | <Borg> | and they should now select correct path |
| 11:33 | <FLHerne> | LordAro: fwiw, the issue is reproducible with default PF settings and doesn't seem obviously explicable |
| 11:33 | <Borg> | the only place I found that MIGHT influence this: |
| 11:35 | <LordAro> | intriguing |
| 11:35 | <Borg> | trying to find it.. now.. |
| 11:35 | <LordAro> | presumably needs some reducing to a minimal example |
| 11:35 | <Eddi|zuHause> | it goes away if you turn the intermediate signals into path signals |
| 11:35 | <FLHerne> | Eddi|zuHause: hah, that's exactlt what I was just doing |
| 11:36 | <Borg> | got it: if (n.m_num_signals_passed >= m_sig_look_ahead_costs.Size() / 2) return 0; |
| 11:36 | <Borg> | but.. I aint expert... so.. hard to say |
| 11:36 | <Eddi|zuHause> | hm, no |
| 11:37 | <Borg> | Eddi|zuHause: I doubt it go away.. because block signals penalty is added only when they are RED |
| 11:37 | <Borg> | if they are GREEN.. no penalty.. and checking them to PBS.. means no penalty either |
| 11:37 | <Borg> | s/checking/changing/ |
| 11:38 | <Eddi|zuHause> | right, turned some more signals, now it seems to work better |
| 11:38 | <FLHerne> | Eddi|zuHause: Which ones? It doesn't work for me |
| 11:38 | <FLHerne> | I tried the pair by the lake, then all of them on both routes |
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| 11:39 | <Eddi|zuHause> | it's weird, sometimes it works for a moment, and then it stops |
| 11:40 | <Borg> | wtf! |
| 11:40 | <Borg> | now its even more weirded |
| 11:40 | <Borg> | I removed all PBS back signals.. |
| 11:40 | <Borg> | and it works as it SHOULD.. because upper path.. should have imo sligher cost.. that down path |
| 11:40 | <Borg> | the only difference is.. im still at look_ahead_max_signals = 20 |
| 11:41 | <Eddi|zuHause> | now i also turned the ones right after the destination station |
| 11:43 | <Eddi|zuHause> | what makes this more difficult to diagnose is that servicing is enabled |
| 11:44 | <Borg> | but all trains have goto depoint for maintenance? and it kicks not often.. 540 days |
| 11:44 | <Borg> | so it should not influence it at all? |
| 11:45 | <Borg> | also u can turn on: order.no_servicing_if_no_breakdowns 1 |
| 11:45 | <Eddi|zuHause> | well, my conclusion: don't mix block and path signals |
| 11:45 | <Borg> | I have no break doents |
| 11:46 | <Borg> | Eddi|zuHause: huh?!! how come.. block signals are essecinal for balancing |
| 11:46 | <Borg> | parameters: yapf.rail_look_ahead_signal_p* |
| 11:46 | <Borg> | without block signals.. penalties never kick in.. |
| 11:46 | <Borg> | Eddi|zuHause: did you make my track works only by changing signals to PBS? all of them? |
| 11:47 | <Eddi|zuHause> | anyway, they still take the long detour sometimes, when the routes are blocked. this is usually because the more signals they go through on the alternate path makes it drop the check whether paths are reserved, which makes it APPEAR shorter |
| 11:47 | <Borg> | Eddi|zuHause: thats good!! even more.. excelent.. thats what AUX path is for |
| 11:47 | <Borg> | take it.. when stuff is blocked.. |
| 11:47 | <Borg> | but if not... go primary :) thats the goal design here |
| 11:48 | <Eddi|zuHause> | if you remove some signals, that situation should be less likely |
| 11:48 | <Borg> | but.. now.. train do go AUX.. even when PRI is empty.. and free |
| 11:48 | <Borg> | okey.. lets try it |
| 11:48 | <Eddi|zuHause> | which leads to the other conclusion: don't give the trains too many options |
| 11:49 | <Borg> | Eddi|zuHause: there are just 2 options there.. |
| 11:49 | <Borg> | okey.. 3 at best |
| 11:49 | <Borg> | is that too much already? :( |
| 11:50 | <Borg> | okey..I removed some block signals |
| 11:50 | <Borg> | still wrong path selected |
| 11:50 | <Borg> | can you provide me your save game? |
| 11:51 | <Borg> | I wanna see design now |
| 11:51 | <Borg> | to sum up... Im kinda happy that yapf.rail_look_ahead_max_signals have big influence on that |
| 11:52 | <Borg> | so... I need to recalc p0,p1,p2 tables again.. and might be nice workaround |
| 11:53 | <Borg> | hmmm |
| 11:53 | <Eddi|zuHause> | there's no real reason for this "AUX" path to exist. it doesn't have more capacity for holding trains, and no overflow depot |
| 11:53 | <Borg> | I removed last block signal on path.. and.. it started to work.. |
| 11:53 | <Borg> | oh.. there is |
| 11:53 | <Eddi|zuHause> | in the worst case, it locks up, and blocks your other routes |
| 11:54 | <Borg> | just stop 2 trains there |
| 11:54 | <Borg> | you will see how AUX path gets used |
| 11:54 | <Borg> | thats the point |
| 11:54 | <Borg> | if its blocked.. get detour |
| 11:54 | <Borg> | AUX path was first also.. I added botton path to unload the AUX because its used for other trains.. |
| 11:55 | <Borg> | I remember I had problems w/ block signals before.. that somehow paths w/ block signals were more preffered.. somehow |
| 11:55 | <Borg> | but I never dug up this in source code.. |
| 11:57 | <Borg> | heh weird |
| 11:57 | <Borg> | I rememoved block signals.. and for few trains it worked |
| 11:57 | <Borg> | now.. they still select AUX path... wtf |
| 11:57 | <Borg> | okey.. not all.. |
| 11:57 | <Borg> | nows its feel kinda balanced |
| 11:58 | <Borg> | when its a bit blocked... then AUX path is used |
| 11:58 | <Borg> | not bad.. |
| 11:59 | <Borg> | adding ONE block signal.. into AUX path.. just after that crossing bridge |
| 11:59 | <Borg> | completly change YAPF behavior.. |
| 11:59 | <Borg> | now all trains go via AUX path.. |
| 11:59 | <Borg> | and I cant find that in source code.. cost calculator.. |
| 12:00 | <Borg> | SignalCost() is easy |
| 12:00 | <FLHerne> | Borg: It's kind of bad form to spam IRC with 20 lines of stream-of-consciousness rambling |
| 12:00 | <Borg> | if its RED.. and not PbsSignal.. just add cost |
| 12:01 | <Borg> | FLHerne: sorry... |
| 12:02 | <Eddi|zuHause> | here's what i think is happening: https://ibin.co/5n6vbgvxe6mH.png |
| 12:03 | <Eddi|zuHause> | that path has 10 signals, and after 10 signals, the "is this track occupied?" check is dropped |
| 12:03 | <Eddi|zuHause> | so if both the platforms and the holding tracks before them are occupied, this longer route is being treated as "shorter" |
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| 12:04 | <Borg> | Eddi|zuHause: w000t? . how come? how more signals make it shorter? |
| 12:04 | <FLHerne> | Because it only cares about track occupancy in the first 10 signal sections |
| 12:05 | <Borg> | Eddi|zuHause: also: please removed back signals.. it will make it <10 signals and it will be still prefered |
| 12:05 | <FLHerne> | And track occupancy is very high-cost |
| 12:05 | <Borg> | FLHerne: whats the variable name of it? I want to check sources.. to understand this... |
| 12:09 | <Borg> | for now I only see one place with that in yapf_costrail.hpp, and it add yapf.rail_lastred_exit_penalty = 10000 to cost. But in my settings I have it set to 0, but still dont help. is there any other places? |
| 12:11 | <Borg> | Eddi|zuHause: also, even if.. this is weird because cost is always added.. so more signals.. more possible costs (not less) so this is counter intuitive as well.. |
| 12:11 | <Eddi|zuHause> | maybe it's also seeing some loop which will increase signal count |
| 12:11 | <FLHerne> | Borg: I think you want yapf.rail_pbs_cross_penalty and yapf.rail_pbs_station_penalty |
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| 12:11 | <FLHerne> | (cost per tile of conflicting track reservation, latter case for stations) |
| 12:12 | <Borg> | FLHerne: that is pbs_cross_penalty ? I had to increase it in my setting.. so trains better balance at platform entrances.. but I dont understand code :( |
| 12:12 | <Borg> | 300 -> 1000 make it nice... trains dont wait for platform when some reservation blocks them. they select other uncoopuied platform.. |
| 12:12 | <Borg> | with 300.. they were just waiting unnecessary.. blocking flows. |
| 12:13 | <Eddi|zuHause> | the settings are "pbs_cross_penalty" for occupied track, and "pbs_station_penalty" for occupied station. "lastred_exit" doesn't apply because you don't have any exit signals, and PBS signals aren't red or green |
| 12:14 | <Borg> | Eddi|zuHause: okey, I have pbs_station_penalty default... 800 what should I try? |
| 12:14 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i've temporarily set them both to 100 (= normal track), and i've not seen a train using the AUX track |
| 12:14 | <Borg> | hmm lets try.. |
| 12:15 | <Borg> | Eddi|zuHause: ARGH!! thx :) |
| 12:16 | <Eddi|zuHause> | (those are not good settings, just for testing) |
| 12:16 | <Borg> | setting pbs_station_penalty 800 -> 100 made it alone! |
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| 12:16 | <Borg> | all other are default settings |
| 12:16 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i still think you should just remove the AUX track |
| 12:17 | <Borg> | :( |
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| 12:18 | <Borg> | no no.. I will keep it |
| 12:18 | <Eddi|zuHause> | remember, the 800 (=8 tiles) is per station tile, so a 7 tile station will allow for 56 tiles worth of penalties as potential detour |
| 12:18 | <Borg> | wow.... alot.. |
| 12:19 | <Borg> | but 800 is default with 100... |
| 12:20 | <Borg> | also.. I dont need to touch pbs_cross_penatly then.. because pbs_station_penalty was also breaking my platform balancing.. damn! one little setting.. so high PF influence.. |
| 12:20 | <Eddi|zuHause> | you can reduce that, but you should still have it higher than 100, so trains would choose a free track over an occupied track |
| 12:20 | <Borg> | okey.. thanks a LOT guys.. now I will revert back to my own settings and adjust only pbs_station_penalty and I will check what will happen now.. |
| 12:21 | <Eddi|zuHause> | setting it to 100 will probably wreak havoc on other places of your network |
| 12:21 | <Borg> | Eddi|zuHause: if it will be problematic.. it will quickly appear on that Nonningwell West station w/ 5 platforms.. when trains will just wait.. instead tacking unocuppied.. :) |
| 12:21 | <Borg> | still.. worth a try :) |
| 12:27 | <Borg> | so far so good.. w/o PBS back signal at AUX.. its being selected.. with is fine... adding one PBS signal.. solves problem.. it because AUX.. selected only when other blocked.. now lets see if other places have issues now |
| 12:29 | <Borg> | yep.. |
| 12:30 | <Borg> | there are problem in other places.. DAMN.. :( |
| 12:32 | <Borg> | time to do RTFS more.. what exacly that pbs_station_penalty do |
| 12:33 | <Borg> | AHA! its near the code I pasted earlier about weird look_ahead_max_signals/2 code in ReservationCost() |
| 12:34 | <Borg> | in one fuction.. all those settings are there.. as well pbs_cross_penalty |
| 12:36 | <Borg> | but. luicky.. those 2 are seems to be used only in ReservationCost() |
| 12:36 | <Borg> | so.. it should be easy to tune it up correctly! :) |
| 12:41 | <Borg> | with is.. not easy |
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| 12:54 | <Borg> | okey.. now I slowly get picture of whats going on.. |
| 12:58 | <frosch123> | there is over 6 hours of yapf talk in the log. i guess i was lucky i had to work today? |
| 12:59 | <Borg> | ;D |
| 12:59 | <Borg> | yeah... consider yourself lucky... |
| 13:01 | <Eddi|zuHause> | frosch123: probably better :) |
| 13:02 | <Borg> | is there any reason to cut in half look ahead signal in Reservation Cost? |
| 13:03 | <Borg> | I think best solution would be to set it to larger number like 20? perhaps 30 even.. and carefully recalculate table so past away signals have minor influence on path. |
| 13:03 | <Borg> | touching pbs_station_penalty makes havoc indeed.. like Eddi|zuHause predicted (if you use PBS to balance platforms) |
| 13:04 | <Borg> | as low as I can go there is pbs_station_penalty = 500 |
| 13:05 | <Borg> | for for 3 tiles platforms.. it gets 1500. and its enough to balance w/o PBS back signal |
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| 13:18 | <Samu> | #8492 - I've been all day trying to make terraforming less restrictive |
| 13:19 | <Samu> | while it diminishes the cases of flooded houses, it doesn't totally eliminate the issue as it currently stands in the PR |
| 13:20 | <Samu> | the PR approach totally eliminates flooding |
| 13:20 | <Samu> | but might be "overkill" in some cases, I'm unsure yet |
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| 13:31 | <andythenorth> | le oof |
| 13:31 | <andythenorth> | also hi |
| 13:31 | <Borg> | Eddi|zuHause: I think this is a bug... in ReservationCost() that div 2 |
| 13:31 | <Borg> | I just made new p0,p1,p2 params adjusted for look_ahead_max_signals=20 |
| 13:31 | <Borg> | and it works nicely |
| 13:32 | <Borg> | BUT of course.. I can be unlucky again.. and create path w/ exaclt 20 signals vs shoter.. and it will break again.. |
| 13:32 | <andythenorth> | ships ships ships ships ships |
| 13:32 | * | andythenorth ships |
| 13:32 | <andythenorth> | names of ships are Hard |
| 13:36 | <Borg> | so, any YAPF guru, please take a look at ReservationCost() function and comment why we check only on half of look ahead signals here... what was the reasoning.. |
| 13:39 | <Borg> | removing that div 2 fixes everything... and makes things work as it should |
| 13:40 | <+michi_cc> | Borg: It fixes everything for your very specific case, nothing more and nothing less. |
| 13:41 | <Borg> | and actually.. im not sure if its wise to have it here at all.. why the check? if we reach Platform Reservation check.. why checking how many signals we passed anyway? |
| 13:41 | <Borg> | is that calc expensive? |
| 13:46 | <Eddi|zuHause> | Borg: the limit is there because it is a) pretty expensive to check, and b) pretty meaningless if you have a 1000k tile route to the other end of the map, because the situation will be different once you get there |
| 13:50 | <Eddi|zuHause> | the "expensive" part is that it cannot be cached, because it changes all the time |
| 13:52 | <+michi_cc> | And yes, the limit to reservation cost is there to prevent to following complaint: "Why does the train go this other long way, the train in front would be long gone until if it just continued straight". |
| 13:52 | <+michi_cc> | Strike on until, please. |
| 14:02 | <Borg> | Eddi|zuHause: okey right.... |
| 14:02 | <Borg> | michi_cc: yeah.. valid point too |
| 14:04 | <Borg> | okey.. so there is more understanding to this now.. lets try other way around.. shorter look ahead... |
| 14:07 | <andythenorth> | it amuses me when people think we have gurus and experts :) |
| 14:07 | <andythenorth> | instead of people just desperately trying to make it work :) |
| 14:09 | <Eddi|zuHause> | andythenorth: how much difference is there really? :) |
| 14:09 | <andythenorth> | very good question |
| 14:12 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/team] alisaffari97 opened issue #120: [fa_IR] Translator access request https://git.io/JLbeF |
| 14:14 | <Borg> | hooly shit.. now it looks even better |
| 14:14 | <Borg> | look ahead max signals = 5 didt splendit work |
| 14:16 | <Borg> | and thanks to that div/2 |
| 14:17 | <Borg> | only final PBS signal check for platform availability |
| 14:18 | <andythenorth> | 1926 cargo ship: design speed 11 knots; 2020 hybrid propulsion cargo ship: design speed 11 knots |
| 14:18 | <andythenorth> | lol ships |
| 14:21 | <LordAro> | ooh, Persian |
| 14:21 | <LordAro> | did we have one of them before? |
| 14:22 | <LordAro> | ooh, that's one of the unfinished langs |
| 14:22 | <LordAro> | can eints even handle those? |
| 14:23 | <frosch123> | yes |
| 14:23 | <frosch123> | though possibly not tested as much :) |
| 14:25 | <frosch123> | the previous persian translator was last active 2016-06-12 :) |
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| 14:28 | <LordAro> | :) |
| 14:28 | <supermop_Home> | andythenorth catamaran ferries |
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| 14:29 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/team] LordAro commented on issue #120: [fa_IR] Translator access request https://git.io/JLbeF |
| 14:29 | <andythenorth> | yes but not for logs |
| 14:30 | <FLHerne> | The newer ones have vastly lower operating costs |
| 14:30 | <FLHerne> | But no-one cares about running cost in OTTD |
| 14:31 | <FLHerne> | I think with ships you kind of have to accept that the differences are for visual happiness more than gameplay :-/ |
| 14:31 | <FLHerne> | (or reinvent the economy) |
| 14:31 | <andythenorth> | yes |
| 14:31 | <andythenorth> | it's just very inconvenient of reality |
| 14:31 | <andythenorth> | it should be arranged for gameplay |
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| 14:38 | <andythenorth> | hmm Train Whack is broken |
| 14:38 | <andythenorth> | it doesn't understand dual-headed engines |
| 14:39 | <Wolf01> | Fix it |
| 14:39 | <FLHerne> | I think it's broken by existing, tbh :p |
| 14:39 | <Wolf01> | Ahaha |
| 14:41 | * | Wolf01 sits down, "let's do something", runs netflix... |
| 14:44 | <andythenorth> | still don't know what to call this type of ship http://www.workboatsinternational.com/small-gen-cargo-pallet-carrier-lpc3581.html |
| 14:44 | <andythenorth> | http://www.workboatsinternational.com/small-gen-cargo-pallet-carrier-lpc3581.html |
| 14:45 | <andythenorth> | the shipping industry calls them 'general cargo' but that doesn't mean general cargo |
| 14:45 | <andythenorth> | it means specifically packaged cargo in palettes, bundles, crates or bags |
| 14:45 | <andythenorth> | general cargo goes in a multi-purpose vessel |
| 14:47 | <andythenorth> | and generally if it's mixed breakbulk it goes in a tweendecker for better use of space |
| 14:47 | <andythenorth> | it's also called packet cargo, but packet cargo doesn't go in a packet ship or a ship in the packet trade, that's for mail and valuables |
| 14:48 | <andythenorth> | the cargo class for this is piece goods, but nobody knows what that is? |
| 14:48 | <Wolf01> | I think you are going too much specific |
| 14:48 | <andythenorth> | you can drive trucks and forklifts onto this type of ship with the ramp, but it's not a ro-ro ship |
| 14:49 | <andythenorth> | Wolf01 yes, I just need a name P |
| 14:49 | <Wolf01> | Simba |
| 14:49 | <andythenorth> | and a working : key |
| 14:50 | <andythenorth> | "Simba Delete This Sprite There is No Valid Name For This Ship Type"? :) |
| 14:51 | <FLHerne> | andythenorth: It's sort of like a big OSV |
| 14:51 | <andythenorth> | gameplay-wise, it's like a railway goods van |
| 14:52 | <andythenorth> | 'van ship' |
| 14:52 | <FLHerne> | Then what exactly is wrong with 'general cargo'? |
| 14:52 | <andythenorth> | it only refits piece goods |
| 14:52 | <andythenorth> | not bulk |
| 14:52 | <andythenorth> | I could change that |
| 14:53 | <FLHerne> | I don't think that's an issue |
| 14:53 | <andythenorth> | it's all kind of lolz anyway, because the ship names can't be seen in game :) grf.farm/images/ship-buy-menu-width.png |
| 14:53 | <andythenorth> | https://grf.farm/images/ship-buy-menu-width.png |
| 14:53 | <FLHerne> | In principle you *could* ship bulk cargoes in bags on something like that, but no-one would |
| 14:54 | <andythenorth> | maybe you're right |
| 14:54 | <andythenorth> | I don't try and name Horse wagons for what they carry |
| 14:54 | <andythenorth> | I just name them for having a name |
| 14:57 | <andythenorth> | maybe Cargo Liner |
| 14:58 | <andythenorth> | the earlier generation will be something like https://www.shippingwondersoftheworld.com/nora_maersk.html |
| 14:58 | <andythenorth> | which is quite a cool ship imo |
| 15:06 | <supermop_Home> | andy it sounds like a box truck for boats? |
| 15:06 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac updated pull request #8495: Feature: Prevent tunnels from being built under extractive industries https://git.io/JLFsM |
| 15:07 | <supermop_Home> | also i tried to give all my road vehicles brand names, model numbers, description etc |
| 15:07 | <supermop_Home> | mostly a waste |
| 15:08 | <supermop_Home> | groundsprites grass and snow done btw |
| 15:09 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac updated pull request #8495: Feature: Prevent tunnels from being built under extractive industries https://git.io/JLFsM |
| 15:10 | <supermop_Home> | just call it a box boat or pallet ship |
| 15:10 | <andythenorth> | box boat! |
| 15:11 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac commented on pull request #8495: Feature: Prevent tunnels from being built under mines https://git.io/JLbUq |
| 15:12 | <supermop_Home> | kassebåd |
| 15:12 | <supermop_Home> | Doosboot |
| 15:14 | <FLHerne> | Hm, "box boat" to me always means containers |
| 15:15 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac commented on pull request #8495: Feature: Prevent tunnels from being built under mines https://git.io/JLbUC |
| 15:15 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac commented on pull request #8495: Feature: Prevent tunnels from being built under mines https://git.io/JLbUB |
| 15:16 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac commented on pull request #8495: Feature: Prevent tunnels from being built under mines https://git.io/JLbUE |
| 15:16 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac commented on pull request #8495: Feature: Prevent tunnels from being built under mines https://git.io/JLbUg |
| 15:18 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac commented on pull request #8495: Feature: Prevent tunnels from being built under mines https://git.io/JLbU6 |
| 15:20 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac commented on pull request #8495: Feature: Prevent tunnels from being built under mines https://git.io/JLbUQ |
| 15:22 | <supermop_Home> | andythenorth ok apparently I PM'd myself the hotel construction sprites last night |
| 15:22 | <andythenorth> | 'oops' |
| 15:26 | <Samu> | https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blame/24f857ed5edab0bf79b1f0f2c18b9a6280103ffb/town_cmd.c#L538 interesting, it was always there |
| 15:26 | <Samu> | I was wondering why add a cost check for the terraform |
| 15:27 | <Samu> | with costmods that check is gonna not be effective |
| 15:28 | <Samu> | like when water is made cheaper to clear |
| 15:30 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler commented on pull request #8495: Feature: Prevent tunnels from being built under mines https://git.io/JLbTZ |
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| 15:49 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #8495: Feature: Prevent tunnels from being built under mines https://git.io/JLbkj |
| 15:51 | <andythenorth> | how about industries with no-fly zone? o_O |
| 15:55 | <frosch123> | how can we establish "decide whether something is wanted first, before discussing details how it is done"? |
| 15:56 | <frosch123> | it's a pretty as**ole move have random people request changes, and more work from the PR author, when people are still discussion the feature in general |
| 15:57 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] mattkimber commented on pull request #8485: Codechange: improve performance for complex vehicle chains by resolving sprites less often https://git.io/JLbIR |
| 15:58 | <LordAro> | frosch123: there's the "candidate: *" tags |
| 15:59 | <LordAro> | can't really stop "random people" (even if they're eddi) requesting changes on "unassessed" PRs |
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| 16:03 | <andythenorth> | is the feature 'tunnels' or 'industries can request limitations'? |
| 16:03 | <andythenorth> | or I could just stay out of it also, quite happily |
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| 16:07 | <frosch123> | it's a weird feature. it tries to enforce a certain game-style |
| 16:07 | <FLHerne> | https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/depth_and_breadth_2x.png |
| 16:07 | <frosch123> | but imo players should enforce their own-playstyle by just playing like that |
| 16:07 | <FLHerne> | Eh |
| 16:07 | <frosch123> | so, i tend to: no religion in ottd |
| 16:08 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac commented on pull request #8495: Feature: Prevent tunnels from being built under mines https://git.io/JLbIS |
| 16:08 | <FLHerne> | By that argument there should be no costs, no town ratings, no date restrictions, etc. |
| 16:08 | <andythenorth> | FLHerne I swear I didn't draw that XKCD, but I wish I had |
| 16:10 | <andythenorth> | for whatever it's worth, I wouldn't use a restrictions flag in FIRS |
| 16:10 | <andythenorth> | it would just lead to requests for a parameter |
| 16:11 | <andythenorth> | I think there are more interesting things to do than spend extending content API in that direction |
| 16:11 | <andythenorth> | spend time * |
| 16:11 | <frosch123> | FLHerne: what about disallowing to raise/lower corners further than 3 heightlevels from where they were during map generation? |
| 16:11 | <Borg> | I now play for a hour or so.. and no anomalies spotted.... YAPF works fine :) |
| 16:12 | <FLHerne> | frosch123: Oh yes please |
| 16:12 | <FLHerne> | Also, indestructible rivers |
| 16:14 | <frosch123> | ok, second attempt: how annoying is it, when a new industry is constructed over your tunnels, you want to adjust the track layout, remove the tunnel temporary, and notice you cannot put it back? |
| 16:15 | <frosch123> | looks like the town-authority-analogy holds up |
| 16:15 | <FLHerne> | frosch123: Well, they shouldn't be able to mine over your tunnels |
| 16:15 | <FLHerne> | So the industry construction check should fail |
| 16:15 | <Eddi|zuHause> | frosch123: i think the logical conclusion would be, that such industries cannot be founded above tunnels |
| 16:17 | <andythenorth> | ok so it's flag, and it has to be handled in per-tile location checks? |
| 16:17 | <andythenorth> | maybe just industry location checks |
| 16:17 | <frosch123> | also, how often does this scenario even happen? |
| 16:18 | <frosch123> | how often do you tunnel under an industry, and how often is it a mine? |
| 16:18 | <Eddi|zuHause> | frosch123: i vaguely remember this feature existing in the past |
| 16:18 | <frosch123> | people tend to ignore superfluous secondary industries, and tunnel under them if they are in the way |
| 16:18 | <frosch123> | but primary are always intesrting to service |
| 16:18 | <Eddi|zuHause> | but i haven't bothered checking out which patchpack that might have been |
| 16:19 | <FLHerne> | My imaginary proper solution: |
| 16:19 | <FLHerne> | - Industries have classes, like cargo-classes |
| 16:19 | <FLHerne> | (including 'IC_MINE') |
| 16:19 | <frosch123> | https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=21438 |
| 16:20 | <Eddi|zuHause> | <frosch123> but imo players should enforce their own-playstyle by just playing like that <-- i'm sceptical about this approach, because often it's easier to follow a rule if it's actually enforced |
| 16:20 | <FLHerne> | - GameScripts or similar can filter all actions like I was proposing before |
| 16:20 | <andythenorth> | FLHerne start a discussion! :) |
| 16:20 | <FLHerne> | - Thus, someone who cares can write a GS that refuses to allow a tunnel if it goes under a mine |
| 16:21 | <frosch123> | please start less discussions about features noone is going to implement :) |
| 16:21 | <andythenorth> | TL;DR we already know this shouldn't be a setting because (1) policy: content > settings (2) newgrf industries won't respect the setting meaningfully |
| 16:21 | <frosch123> | a discussion needs something to be discussed |
| 16:22 | <andythenorth> | if someone turns up with a fully working newgrf patch, a test grf, docs, and an nml PR, then...fine? |
| 16:22 | <FLHerne> | frosch123: Yeah, that's my feeling |
| 16:22 | <Eddi|zuHause> | FLHerne: i can't imagine GS having the proper access to allow/deny constructions |
| 16:23 | <FLHerne> | Eddi|zuHause: My idea was that you could register a Squirrel callback to run on each action |
| 16:23 | <FLHerne> | Not just construction |
| 16:24 | <Eddi|zuHause> | yes, but there's no such thing as squirrel callbacks |
| 16:24 | <Eddi|zuHause> | <FLHerne> - Industries have classes, like cargo-classes <-- what would these classes do differently than the current flags? |
| 16:25 | <Eddi|zuHause> | other than being completely arbitrary and difficult to standardize between different GRF/GS authors |
| 16:25 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i think your suggestion is effectively unimplementable |
| 16:25 | <FLHerne> | Eddi|zuHause: The current flags are even more arbitrary :p |
| 16:26 | <Eddi|zuHause> | completely aside of the fact that nobody would do it |
| 16:26 | <FLHerne> | It seems to mostly work for cargo-classes |
| 16:26 | <frosch123> | Eddi|zuHause: there is a "save" callback |
| 16:26 | <FLHerne> | You get a few odd-looking combinations where vehicle and industry authors didn't quite agree what some flag meant |
| 16:26 | <FLHerne> | But it means that most vehicle grfs work pretty well even with FIRS' 50-whatever cargos |
| 16:27 | <FLHerne> | Which weren't even conceived of when most of those grfs were written |
| 16:28 | <FLHerne> | It may be a bit late for that, of course |
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| 16:38 | <Samu> | can this code be simplified further? https://pastebin.com/pSQZGfw9 |
| 16:39 | <Samu> | simplified, readable, that kind of stuff |
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| 16:51 | * | andythenorth finds these ship diagrams fascinating https://www.shippingwondersoftheworld.com/wpimages/wpe8357759_05_06.jpg |
| 16:51 | <andythenorth> | found loads of them |
| 16:51 | <andythenorth> | much easier to draw when you understand the function of each part |
| 16:57 | <andythenorth> | 'trains' cargo? :P https://beta.maerskline.com/-/media/ml/about/our-history/maersk-line-at-90/05-special-cargo/1280x800-herta-maersk-train.jpg?h=450&w=720&la=en&hash=FDB6572F39B550D10F7D7E754496AE8F43EECAA8 |
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| 17:03 | <FLHerne> | andythenorth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvyIrsZ7Zhs |
| 17:04 | <andythenorth> | always a good watch :) |
| 17:04 | <andythenorth> | nobody died, just |
| 17:06 | <andythenorth> | http://www.cargolaw.com/2012nightmare_emd-loco.html |
| 17:07 | <supermop_Home> | give objects -z height, like discussed for bridges over stations |
| 17:08 | <supermop_Home> | vanilla mines can have a 'depth' of 0, but if andy wants to make mines with -10 depth he can |
| 17:09 | <andythenorth> | andy doesn't :P |
| 17:09 | <andythenorth> | I have zero interest in having industries limit routes |
| 17:09 | <andythenorth> | the nice thing about content APIs is someone else could :P |
| 17:10 | <supermop_Home> | or be crazy and have depth like the meat packing plant |
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| 17:21 | <supermop_Home> | andythenorth do the spritesheets for the ogfx hotel need to arranged same as the current one? |
| 17:21 | <andythenorth> | yup |
| 17:22 | <andythenorth> | I don't mind doing that, but I have my head in other things currently :) |
| 17:23 | <supermop_Home> | k i can do it quickly |
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| 17:37 | <supermop_Home> | which hotel do you want for the base set version? |
| 17:41 | <supermop_Home> | UGH actually my hotel is 5px taller than base set version |
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| 17:57 | <andythenorth> | hotel K BR TR for base set? |
| 17:59 | * | andythenorth must to sleep oops |
| 17:59 | <andythenorth> | so failing to do sensible bedtimes :P |
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| --- | Log | closed Tue Jan 05 00:00:41 2021 |
