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#openttd IRC Logs for 2021-01-05

---Logopened Tue Jan 05 00:00:41 2021
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04:19<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8495: Feature: Prevent tunnels from being built under mines
04:19<TrueBrain>I used words!
04:25*andythenorth uses reading!
04:26<andythenorth>also I should not be allowed to rebase anything ever
04:26<andythenorth>I think I might alias rebase to ''
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04:29<andythenorth>I should stop following the instructions
04:29<andythenorth>" (use "git pull" to merge the remote branch into yours)" gets me every time
04:30<andythenorth>it's force-push at that point
04:30<TrueBrain>"git pull" is a horrible command to use
04:30<TrueBrain>I literally never use it
04:30<TrueBrain>if I would be to alias anything to "", it would be "git pull"
04:31<TrueBrain>shitty command being shitty
04:38<LordAro>does too many things
04:39<TrueBrain>yup .. too much magic
04:39<LordAro>i think it does have a mode for automatically rebasing now
04:39<LordAro>which probably makes it worse
04:52<TrueBrain>yeah, as people will not understand the errors :P
04:53<TrueBrain>but it is better than the magic merge
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05:32<TrueBrain>what do we think about ? Sounds cute, easy enough, and indeed seems to be missing from the game atm :)
05:33<andythenorth>seems vanilla to me
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05:37<TrueBrain>it is already based on population; guess we should get the other PR in for bridges to be the same :)
05:40<TrueBrain>guess we can just pick them up both, clean the minor boo-boos, sync them to be the same, and push them .. would be nice :)
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05:42<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8485: Codechange: improve performance for complex vehicle chains by resolving sprites less often
05:42<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8458: Fixes for issues with rotated (non-rectangular) airports
05:42<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed issue #8437: Airports: Improper aircraft movement when the northernmost airport tile is not part of the layout
05:43<TrueBrain> <- curious how long it takes for someone to complain :P
05:43<TrueBrain>yeah, no clue why you didn't merge them yet LordAro :P
05:44<LordAro>mostly it's being unsure of things
05:44<LordAro>and wanting someone else to also approve it
05:45<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8457: Change: Ability to convert between road types for town roads and bridges now indi…
05:45<TrueBrain>shrug .. pretty sure we can have lengthy debates about these kind of PRs .. but nobody found a regression, so to the public! :P
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05:47<TrueBrain> <- I still don't like this feature .. but not sure why
05:49<TrueBrain>guess it is fine with it being a setting .. it is not so much about gameplay, but more about how to use the interface, I guess
05:49<LordAro>idk, i think i like it
05:49<TrueBrain>it is one of these PRs I am fine with it being a setting :D
05:49<LordAro>indeed :)
05:49<TrueBrain>it would be horrible for new players
05:49<TrueBrain>that is mostly my argument
05:50<LordAro>mm, having it default off is fine, imo
05:50<LordAro>needs a rebase though :D
05:50<TrueBrain>yeah, and code cleanup
05:50<TrueBrain>_settings_game is sync'd between client and server, is it not?
05:50<TrueBrain>I wonder if sending the bit via DoCommand is useful
05:50<LordAro>i was wondering about that
05:51<LordAro>i certainly would expect it to be synced
05:51<TrueBrain>I think it can just pick up the setting where it is needed .. no need for all this routing in of information, I think
05:51<TrueBrain>okay, something on my todo-list :)
05:51<LordAro>though you could argue that passing it in the command uses less global state :)
05:51<TrueBrain>if the state wasn't already there, you are right :P
05:53<TrueBrain>fun, DC_NO_RAIL_OVERLAP is not used anywhere :P
05:53<TrueBrain>seems a remnant of the old AI
05:54<andythenorth>8274 signals, the existing behaviour does annoy me in game
05:55<andythenorth>I have a twitch about the PR, not sure why, maybe just it's more combinatorial behaviour
05:55<LordAro> i've just had this brought to my attention. Seems reasonable enough to PR? I don't think there's anything significant in there that would make it difficult to PR
05:56<LordAro>TrueBrain: freeing up command numbers would please me
05:56<TrueBrain>should I renumber the DC numbers?
05:56<TrueBrain>or just leave a hole
05:56<LordAro>leave a hole, imo
05:56<TrueBrain>and yes, PR it :)
05:57<andythenorth>LordAro would that JGR pick 'solve' ? (loaded question, there's no repro for 8314)
05:57<LordAro>renumbering would probably cause all sorts of issues with external things, i would imagine
05:57<LordAro>andythenorth: possibly
05:58<LordAro>though... that comment from UnsuspiciousGooball implies that it's already a thing?
05:58<LordAro>not sure i understand
05:58<andythenorth>that's a different issue, afaict
05:58<andythenorth>I reproed that behaviour
05:59<andythenorth>the train can't find a path after converting to the powered railtype, but it's fixed by reversing the train
06:00<Eddi|zuHause>that sounds like a path reservation thing
06:00<andythenorth>I have seen the behaviour Gwyd talks about, but only after reloading railtype grfs where the railtype definition changed
06:00<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #8496: Codechange: DC_NO_RAIL_OVERLAP is a remnant of the OldAI
06:00<andythenorth>the solution is then to crash a train into the stuck train
06:00<TrueBrain>I do not understand what the HasSignals block does, but I think I did that PR correctly :)
06:00<TrueBrain>signals are fine if you make straight lines or something? I dunno
06:01<andythenorth>anyway no repro, no grf list, no save, no screenshot etc for 8314, so not the best of reports :)
06:02<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8496: Codechange: DC_NO_RAIL_OVERLAP is a remnant of the OldAI
06:03<TrueBrain>LordAro: would that be helpful to anyone?
06:03<TrueBrain>(honest question)
06:03<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #8496: Codechange: DC_NO_RAIL_OVERLAP is a remnant of the OldAI
06:03<TrueBrain>andythenorth: I FOUND A MEERKAT
06:04<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: i imagine someone in 10 years wants to add a flag and check whether he can reuse that?
06:04<TrueBrain>it is unused; he can use it
06:04<TrueBrain>this is not stored in savegames or something
06:04<TrueBrain>it is just runtime information
06:04<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, but he will probably embark on a discovery first what this was before
06:04<TrueBrain>why would anyone do that? I heavily doubt that
06:05<TrueBrain>neither are you going to do that when you want to use 0x1000
06:05<TrueBrain>I left a comment as otherwise you might miss there is a hole there, that is all
06:05<TrueBrain>remember it hasn't been used for 11 years now :P
06:05<TrueBrain>well, 12 even
06:05<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #8496: Codechange: DC_NO_RAIL_OVERLAP is a remnant of the OldAI
06:06<LordAro>2 vs 2
06:06<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8496: Codechange: DC_NO_RAIL_OVERLAP is a remnant of the OldAI
06:06<TrueBrain>LordAro: what is your reason for triggering on that line? :)
06:07<TrueBrain>why you think history is important here?
06:07<TrueBrain>(again, no sarcasm; IRC can be tough on that :D)
06:09<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #8496: Codechange: DC_NO_RAIL_OVERLAP is a remnant of the OldAI
06:09<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8496: Codechange: DC_NO_RAIL_OVERLAP is a remnant of the OldAI
06:10<+michi_cc>TrueBrain: Just renumber, then nobody will complain, even if you have a lot more changed lines :p
06:10<TrueBrain>well, I honestly wonder what is in LordAro 's mind :) It might be insightful ;)
06:10<TrueBrain>something triggered it :D I might be missing something :)
06:10<LordAro>basically the same as Eddi
06:11<TrueBrain>okay, I can understand that argument
06:11<TrueBrain>it just doesn't apply here :)
06:11<TrueBrain>this is not a spec :)
06:11<TrueBrain>it is an internal value
06:11<TrueBrain>but I went through the history
06:11<+michi_cc>It makes it a tiny bit to look like some of the bitfields that are saved somewhere.
06:11<Eddi|zuHause>i wasn't going to comment on it, but then LordAro did and i had to chime in
06:11<TrueBrain>we removed DC flags more often without any mentioning it ever existing :)
06:11<LordAro>even for things like admin port?
06:11<TrueBrain>only if you have a fake client, this matters
06:11<TrueBrain>(as DoCommands are sent over TCP)
06:12<LordAro>i thought we cared about thirdparty versions now? :p
06:12<TrueBrain>but ... yeah ... :P
06:12<+michi_cc>Renumbering will trick the mind (and kick all fake clients :)
06:12<TrueBrain>pretty sure you cannot fire a DoCommand via the admin port :)
06:12<TrueBrain>(not on DC_ flags level)
06:13<LordAro>guess i thought they were a bit more exposed than they are
06:13<TrueBrain>LordAro: if we care on this level about thirdparty, we should not remove it and leave it as a DONEVERUSEAGAIN :)
06:13<TrueBrain>not as far as I know :)
06:14<LordAro>that enum should probably have an explicit size on it too
06:14<LordAro>(4 bytes?)
06:14<TrueBrain>I was triggered on that too because of another PR
06:18<TrueBrain>owh, it is not even send over the network
06:18<TrueBrain>only 3 flags are converted from network to DC_
06:18<TrueBrain>DC_ purely is internal :)
06:19<TrueBrain>DoCommandP is network-safe
06:19<TrueBrain>DoCommand is the internal processing
06:19<TrueBrain>the first does not have flags; they are embedded in Cmd
06:19<TrueBrain>the second does
06:21<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8496: Codechange: DC_NO_RAIL_OVERLAP is a remnant of the OldAI
06:21<LordAro>happy? :p
06:21<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8496: Codechange: DC_NO_RAIL_OVERLAP is a remnant of the OldAI
06:22<TrueBrain>it is not about happy or not :) It is about: am I missing something and are we about to break everything, or not :D
06:22<TrueBrain>it also answers: does the size of DoCommandFlag matter; answer appears to be: no
06:22<TrueBrain>4 bytes, 8 bytes, give it a size, it is fine, from what I can tell :)
06:24<TrueBrain>DoCommand vs DoCommandP is just very confusing :D
06:26<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain dismissed a review for pull request #8496: Codechange: DC_NO_RAIL_OVERLAP is a remnant of the OldAI
06:26<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8496: Codechange: DC_NO_RAIL_OVERLAP is a remnant of the OldAI
06:26<TrueBrain>(forgot a dot in the commit message, and changed 0x0010 to 0x010, as to be more like the other values)
06:28<LordAro>well i'm not approving it again :p
06:28<Eddi|zuHause>i'm fairly sure me approving anything doesn't actually help anyone :p
06:29<TrueBrain>LordAro: lolz :)
06:29<Samu>oh, I'm gonna use that new entry for my DC_NO_FLOOD thingy
06:29<TrueBrain>LordAro: but honestly, it was a good question you asked. As clearly I did not have an answer ready .. which is never a good thing :P
06:30<TrueBrain>assumption can be evil :D
06:30<TrueBrain>ah, I see why the auto-signal-remove needs a bit ... the setting is client-side only
06:30<TrueBrain>that makes sense
06:31<LordAro>all questions answered!
06:32<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc approved pull request #8496: Codechange: DC_NO_RAIL_OVERLAP is a remnant of the OldAI
06:32<TrueBrain>bit 0..2 ... that fits 7 values .. right
06:32<TrueBrain>bits are annoying :P
06:32<+michi_cc>It's fitting even 8 values
06:32<TrueBrain>doWeUseThis or do_we_use_this as variable-names?
06:33<TrueBrain>michi_cc: haha, yes :D
06:33<+michi_cc>Poor, poor zero :)
06:33<TrueBrain>well, strictly seen, zero is not a number :P
06:33<TrueBrain>but that fact doesn't help anyone, ever
06:35<TrueBrain>a | b << 3 === a | (b << 3) , right? Do we prefer one of the other?
06:35<TrueBrain>of = over, typing hard
06:36<+michi_cc>As zero is part of N₀, I would very much consider it a number. But I'm sure Eddi has a dedicated opinion about that :D
06:37<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8496: Codechange: DC_NO_RAIL_OVERLAP is a remnant of the OldAI
06:37<Eddi|zuHause>you have to add more specifiers to "Number" to make 0 not one of them
06:37<TrueBrain>you guys are looking at this too much from a math perspective :P
06:37<TrueBrain>zero wasn't "invented" till years after the other numbers :D
06:38<Eddi|zuHause>you don't "invent" maths. you "discover" maths, as it has been there before you found it
06:39<TrueBrain>guess airquotes carry no meaning anymore :'(
06:39<TrueBrain>okay, my_variable, fine
06:39<TrueBrain>now for the () ...
06:39<Eddi|zuHause>and after you found it, you can usually find clues that it has always been there because you find people using workarounds for the thing that had been missing all along
06:39<TrueBrain>coding style doesn't mention it ...
06:39<TrueBrain>LordAro / michi_cc : any preferences on a | b << 3 vs a | (b << 3) ?
06:40<LordAro> a friend of mine has "0 ∈ ℕ" on a tshirt
06:40<+michi_cc>The latter
06:40<LordAro>TrueBrain: latter
06:40<TrueBrain>consensus, wow
06:40<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: i was told to order it big endian, so (b << 3) | a
06:41<TrueBrain>I .. do not even know what to say to that :P
06:41<Eddi|zuHause>it's in #7000 somewhere, i think it was frosch123
06:42<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain requested changes for pull request #8274: Feature: option to auto remove signals when in the way during rail co…
06:43<TrueBrain>okay, that are very minor things to fix in that PR
06:44<TrueBrain>I could have done it myself, but user was active recently enough; so hopefully he is still interested :D
06:45<TrueBrain> <- oef .. difficult to review. Lot of unrelated changes ..
06:48<LordAro>i looked at it earlier, then got distracted by removing our own implementations of std::min/max
06:48<LordAro>then i got an incomprehensible compile error, and stopped
06:48<Eddi|zuHause>those are the "best" :p
06:48<TrueBrain>OEH, Pretty bird
06:49<TrueBrain>LordAro: sorry to ask, but what is the state of ? You happen to know?
06:49<TrueBrain>oeh, coding style issue :P
06:50<TrueBrain>that PR cannot possibly be correct
06:51<TrueBrain>IsValidID cannot be run before the "join_as--" is done
06:52<LordAro>all those commands are very inconsistent about what they do with the company id
06:52<LordAro>i looked into it before
06:52<LordAro>beyond that, no idea what the state is :p
06:53<TrueBrain>I ask because you did the last review ;) But I see ... this is one of N problems related to this :) And the solution is incorrect ... guess that needs more attention :)
06:54<TrueBrain>tnx LordAro !
06:55<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on pull request #8274: Feature: option to auto remove signals when in the way during rail co…
06:55<LordAro>compile error, if anyone else can work it out
06:55<LordAro>well, link error
06:55<TrueBrain>nice catch JGR :)
06:56<TrueBrain>I think I would prefer it as a client-setting .. but a company-setting would mean less code .. interesting balance :)
06:56<TrueBrain>LordAro: challenge accepted!
06:57<+michi_cc>I wouldn't like signal auto-remove as a company settings. IMHO it is a pure GUI thingy.
06:58<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8274: Feature: option to auto remove signals when in the way during rail co…
06:59<TrueBrain>LordAro: okay, that is just funny .. wth? :D
06:59<LordAro>i have no idea
07:00<LordAro>my only thought was that it's something to do with std::max not being (explicitly) inline
07:00<TrueBrain>you at least get a relocate warning
07:00<TrueBrain>I don't even get that :D
07:01<TrueBrain>anyway, the code is really fishy
07:01<TrueBrain>who defines static consts in a struct?!
07:01<TrueBrain>I mean, come on
07:01<TrueBrain>moving them out fixes the issue
07:01<TrueBrain>owh, this struct is really just a class hiding as a struct
07:02<TrueBrain>ah, it is the Window system
07:04<TrueBrain>I am not sure what a 'static const' in a struct is suppose to do, honestly
07:05<TrueBrain>you want a variable to be part of a struct
07:05<TrueBrain>but you also make it static
07:05<TrueBrain>I cannot put my finger on it, but it hurts
07:05<LordAro>that's one of those weird edgecases in C++, isn't it?
07:06<LordAro>the thing that you have to declare inside, but define outside the struct
07:06<LordAro>though i thought that changed with C++11 or something
07:06<TrueBrain>well, for non-const, yes
07:06<TrueBrain>but this is also a const
07:06<TrueBrain>a static const inside a struct ... I dunno what the intentions are, honestly
07:06<TrueBrain>as a const a compiler can already resolve compile-time
07:07<TrueBrain>a "static int" inside a struct can also be resolved compile-time
07:07<TrueBrain>error: ISO C++ forbids in-class initialization of non-const static member ‘FramerateWindow::VSPACING’
07:07<TrueBrain>seems it is not fixed yet in C++17 LordAro :P
07:08<LordAro>i presume scoping is the intention
07:08<TrueBrain>so my second suggestion does the same, does it not?
07:08<TrueBrain>(in your gist)
07:09<TrueBrain>I am applying C logic here on a C++ world, so don't believe anything I write :P :D
07:09<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #8495: Feature: Prevent tunnels from being built under mines
07:10<+michi_cc>It should be okay:
07:10<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: valid point; a setting wouldn't hurt if the NewGRF controls when it triggers, I guess :) Nice reply!
07:11<TrueBrain>michi_cc: but what does it do, a "static const" vs "const" in a struct?
07:11<+michi_cc>Struct::member versus instance.member
07:11<TrueBrain>owh, like that, fair
07:12<TrueBrain>well, we use neither
07:12<TrueBrain>we just use "member"
07:12<TrueBrain>so I guess that is an easy solution in this case :)
07:12<+michi_cc>a non-static const is (formally) initalized at instatiation, not startup.
07:12<TrueBrain>but compilers optimize it away anyway, do they not?
07:12<TrueBrain>(in this example)
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07:13<TrueBrain>but it might still use memory on initialization, I guess
07:14<TrueBrain>but okay, given that page, changing `const` into `constexpr` solves it too
07:14<+michi_cc>static const they should, const alone should in principal affect the memory layout of the struct unless the optimizer can prove that nobody takes the address of it anywhere.
07:15<TrueBrain>I wonder if this is just a GCC bug LordAro found .. what does clang do :)
07:15<TrueBrain>don't have it installed, bah
07:18<TrueBrain>seems constexpr was also the intention here
07:20*LordAro trying clang
07:22<TrueBrain>did this happen in more cases, or just for this window?
07:22<TrueBrain>and constexpr is pretty cool :D Hints even harder to compilers to use it as a constant :P
07:22<TrueBrain>learning new things :D
07:22<TrueBrain>owh, I forgot lunch ... that needs fixing!
07:24<LordAro>constexpr is a *huge* thing in new C++ now
07:25<LordAro>/usr/bin/ld: CMakeFiles/openttd.dir/src/framerate_gui.cpp.o: in function `FramerateWindow':
07:25<LordAro>/home/lordaro/dev/openttd/src/framerate_gui.cpp:438: undefined reference to `FramerateWindow::MIN_ELEMENTS'
07:25<LordAro>clang-11: error: linker command failed with exit code 1 (use -v to see invocation)
07:25<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #8492: Fix: Don't allow towns to terraform floodable tiles
07:26<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #8495: Feature: Prevent tunnels from being built under mines
07:27<Samu>there is some code repetition in my code, kinda sucks to make a helper function for another helper function
07:27<Samu>but I guess I have to
07:37<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #8495: Feature: Prevent tunnels from being built under mines
07:54<TrueBrain>LordAro: I can understand constexpr being huge .. it seems it can replace a lot of macros and shit :)
08:03<+michi_cc>consteval (C++20) even more. constexpr means "could be evaulated at compile time", consteval is "will be evaluated at compile time". Can be used for complete functions and stuff.
08:06<TrueBrain>nice :D
08:07<TrueBrain>might reduce a lot of template magic, I can imagine
08:11<LordAro>that and concepts
08:25<TrueBrain>lol ... "connect" console command is indeed very broken :D
08:25<TrueBrain>this is fun
08:30<Eddi|zuHause>for some reason my brain connected that to "this is fine" and now imagines you sitting in a burning room :p
08:31<TrueBrain>okay, that whole company-joining-stuff is just broken, but also a bit by design
08:32<TrueBrain>I am very tempted to just collect all the network issues, plan them out, and make a v3 protocol
08:32<TrueBrain>not sure that patching up individual issues is going to help
08:32<TrueBrain>so many bugs on bugs over the years ..
08:33<andythenorth>'but now we have experience'
08:34<TrueBrain>well, that for sure is a true statement ... there are "several" years of working on network protocols between then and now :P
08:34<TrueBrain>but no, it is more that there are a few things that are hard to resolve in the way the network currently works
08:34<TrueBrain>for example, the bug I just reproduced: when you join a server which requires a company password, your client hasn't left the last server, but also hasn't joined the new
08:34<TrueBrain>so you are in a very weird partial state
08:35<TrueBrain>and in fact, the server itself hasn't forgotten about you :P
08:36<LordAro>v3 will be json-based, right?
08:36*andythenorth must leave
08:36<TrueBrain>..... I join you in leaving andythenorth :)
08:36<TrueBrain>LordAro: I should be more specific: I didn't mean that I want to revise the protocol itself
08:36<TrueBrain>just the packets (and order) therein
08:37<andythenorth>TrueBrain new channel, everyone but LordAro ? :)
08:37<andythenorth>oops bad behaviour
08:37<TrueBrain>I kinda like LordAro , so nah, I am good here :)
08:37<LordAro>ok, then SOAP :p
08:37*LordAro leaves before he is kicked
08:37<TrueBrain>OpenTTD over WebSocket would be interesting :)
08:38<SpComb>POST /tracks
08:38<SpComb>and then port the pathfinder to use GraphQL
08:39<TrueBrain>right, lets put this bug in the freezer for now; there is no easy solution without breaking 10 other things, it seems :)
08:39<Eddi|zuHause>so we are finally going web 2.0 now?
08:51<TrueBrain>LordAro: <- I think we should aim to process these before doing a 1.11 release
08:52<TrueBrain>it looks more than it really is; some PRs just need some minor work
08:52<TrueBrain>some issues are trivial to fix
08:52<TrueBrain>would love to hear your opinion on the matter :)
08:53<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #8492: Fix: Don't allow towns to terraform certain floodable tiles
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08:56<LordAro>oof, that's a lot :D
08:59<TrueBrain>well, there was a reason I suggested to not do 1.11 yet :) If you feel some don't belong there, do let me know :)
09:00<LordAro>it's just a matter of whether we can get them all done
09:00<LordAro>it's very optimisitic
09:01<TrueBrain>yeah, I don't expect us to process them all
09:01<TrueBrain>but it might give some priority in what to pick up :)
09:01<TrueBrain>like .. you really do not get a message for plane crash :o
09:02<TrueBrain>ah, it was my settings
09:03<TrueBrain>still no popup
09:03<TrueBrain>if the aircraft is cleaned up before the news pops up, it is never shown
09:04<andythenorth>soothing Russian train video
09:04<andythenorth>such forest, such sunlight
09:10<Eddi|zuHause>i guess this is a disguised steam train? :p
09:11<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #7611: Accident/disaster news not always showing
09:11<TrueBrain>okay, crashed vehicle news is REALLY evil :)
09:11<TrueBrain>no wonder you rarely see it
09:12<Eddi|zuHause>is github slow or is it my internet? because that page is not loading
09:12<TrueBrain>works for me
09:12<TrueBrain>(duh; otherwise I could not have posted it :P)
09:12<supermop_Home>good morning
09:13<TrueBrain>but I have had issues with GitHub for weeks now .. it sometimes just loads VERY slow
09:13<Eddi|zuHause>i thought we fixed that by separating "real" news from ticker messages
09:14<TrueBrain>totally unrelated to the problem :)
09:14<TrueBrain>well, not totally
09:14<TrueBrain>that made it less bad
09:14<TrueBrain>it is still bad
09:15<andythenorth>TrueBrain it's because you're in Iran
09:15<TrueBrain>before that, 0 chance you seeing a crashed vehicle .. now 1% :P
09:16<TrueBrain>it is worse with fast-forward, as news is tied to "realtime" clock
09:16<LordAro>andythenorth: oof
09:16<TrueBrain>andythenorth: sadly, that has been a known problem
09:17<TrueBrain>something with sanctions against a country
09:17<TrueBrain>it is sad
09:18<TrueBrain>one solution for the news I can see, is to make crash-news-reports not tight to the vehicle, but to a viewport location
09:18<Eddi|zuHause>new category: *BREAKING NEWS*
09:18<TrueBrain>in that case the news remains
09:18<TrueBrain>just might show an empty plot
09:19<Eddi|zuHause>that sounds reasonable. make sure the news keeps the map location, and doesn't rely on the vehicle to access that location
09:20<supermop_Home>ugh did TTO invent the idea of an endless scrolling ticker of news at the bottom of screen for cable news?
09:20<TrueBrain>haha :D
09:20<supermop_Home>Chris Sawyer is responsible for Fox News D:
09:21<Eddi|zuHause>"news ticker" pretty much predates TV by like a century :p
09:22<supermop_Home>yes but more as a series of stock prices by telegraph that you make a concerted decision to look at
09:22<TrueBrain>hmm ... the news ticket does appear this way, but you no longer know WHICH vehicle crashed
09:22<TrueBrain>not sure that is better
09:23<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: long haul suggestion: keep the vehicle around in vehicle lists, but clear it from maps. and add a "rebuild in nearest depot" button or something
09:23<TrueBrain>yeah, I was considering the same, but that would also keep vehicles in the vehicle pool
09:23<TrueBrain>it needs cleaning some day, I guess
09:24<supermop_Home>not as a endless distraction splitting your attention
09:24<LordAro>can't the news message just be "precalculated" when it's generated? then no need for worrying about keeping references to vehicles around at all
09:25<TrueBrain>LordAro: yes, that is the "based on tile, not vehicle" solution
09:25<TrueBrain>but the problem is, the vehicle is cleaned up by then
09:25<TrueBrain>so .. what vehicle crashed?
09:25<LordAro>well, just save the location instead of the vehicle
09:25<TrueBrain>news messages are "precalculated" in that sense :)
09:25<TrueBrain>yes ...
09:25<TrueBrain>but what vehicle was it?
09:25<TrueBrain>it was cleaned up
09:25<TrueBrain>no longer there
09:25<Eddi|zuHause>supermop_Home: to my understanding, a "news ticker" was typically put up in places like newspaper offices, where they ran in the background and someone went through them whenever they ran out of interesting things to write about
09:25<TrueBrain>not for the game
09:25<TrueBrain>but for the user
09:26<TrueBrain>how does the user know what vehicle crashed
09:26<LordAro>but you've saved the name of the vehicle when generating the news message
09:26<TrueBrain>you were thinking from the game :D That is solved, that is easy ;)
09:26<TrueBrain>not from the player perspective :D
09:26<TrueBrain>not = now :)
09:26<LordAro>i'm not sure what the difference is
09:26<TrueBrain>a player gets: aircraft crashed
09:26<Samu>does the news about crashed vehicle also go missing for AIs?
09:26<Eddi|zuHause>LordAro: how would the user find out what the order list was, after the vehicle is cleared?
09:26<TrueBrain>so ... what aircraft was it? Theone from A to B, or from A to C?
09:27<TrueBrain>sorry, I was not clear in explaining :)
09:27<Samu>if the AI is busy doing something else before checking events?
09:27<supermop_Home>Eddi|zuHause exactly - it wasn't bombarding a regular audience trying to look at something else
09:29<Eddi|zuHause>supermop_Home: i'm trying to think back when i first was noticing something like that. must have been around 2000-ish
09:29<LordAro>idk, location should give a pretty good clue to the player, along with the vehicle name
09:29<TrueBrain>it wouldn't for my games :D
09:29<Eddi|zuHause>supermop_Home: which was around the same time as 24h-news-channels started popping up
09:29<TrueBrain>but okay, this was already a problem
09:29<TrueBrain>so nothing new :)
09:30<TrueBrain>disasters have the same issue atm :) News is removed when the disaster is removed
09:30<Eddi|zuHause>supermop_Home: presumably in america this was a bit earlier than in europe
09:30<TrueBrain>so an UFO can crash your rail, and by the time you would get the message
09:30<TrueBrain>you see and hear nothing :D
09:30<TrueBrain>lets fix this :P
09:31<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: i agree, "keep the news around" and "keep the vehicle info around" are two different issues.
09:31<TrueBrain>one bug at the time :D
09:32<Eddi|zuHause>technically those are features, not bugs :)
09:33<Eddi|zuHause>because, as far as i can tell, the current behaviour is not broken, just undesirable
09:34<TrueBrain>what is also funny: town celebrates, new aircraft at airport!
09:34<TrueBrain>aircraft crashes
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09:34<TrueBrain>gets cleaned up
09:34<TrueBrain>all the news abut the celebration is also removed
09:34<TrueBrain>that is just EVIL
09:34<supermop_Home>Eddi|zuHause here it was 95 or 96 i think - suspiciously just 1 year after Transport Tycoon!
09:35<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: imagine some people never got the news "First Zeppelin lands at Lakehurst, New Jersey" on account of it going up in flames
09:36<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #8497: Fix: keeps news about accidents around after vehicle is cleaned up
09:36<TrueBrain>anyway, easy fix :)
09:36<supermop_Home>oooh precedent: first record of a news ticker being used as part of a regular broadcast was on NBC's Today, used when the program first premiered on January 14, 1952. Without the benefit of computer-generated headlines and digital on-screen graphics, the ticker was very different from the ones in use today. The Today ticker was an actual piece of paper with typewritten headlines superimposed on the lower third of the screen. T
09:36<supermop_Home> on the smaller screens of the time, and was dropped not long afterward.
09:37<supermop_Home>can we add breakdowns for the ticker?
09:37<supermop_Home>complete with smoke sprite?
09:41<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8497: Fix: keeps news about accidents around after vehicle is cleaned up
09:41<Eddi|zuHause>i think part of your message was cut
09:41<TrueBrain>so happy it is not only me who has that issue :)
09:42<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8497: Fix: keeps news about accidents around after vehicle is cleaned up
09:42<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: i'm fairly sure it's a clientside issue of the sender, where it's not pre-cutting the message properly to fit into an IRC message body
09:42<TrueBrain>it is a problem between client and server for sure
09:42<TrueBrain>not sure what client supermop_Home uses
09:43<TrueBrain>but I can imagine it could also be that the server sends a max-message-size that is incorrect
09:43<supermop_Home>its called xo?
09:43<Eddi|zuHause>so the server cuts down the message further, and doesn't bother sending the rest as a second message
09:43<TrueBrain>so it might be somewhere in between the two :)
09:43<TrueBrain>might be as easy as a disagreement of specs :)
09:43<TrueBrain>(total-message-size, including NOTICE etc, or "message size" as parameter)
09:44<supermop_Home>well the gist of the idea was that NBC tried a news ticker in 1952, superimposing a feed of an actual paper ticker tape at the bottom of the screen
09:44<supermop_Home>but it was basically impossible to read on the like 6" screens back then, and the ticker kept breaking down
09:45<supermop_Home>on my client side it shows it sent as two messages?
09:45<Eddi|zuHause>at least, in europe the inflation of "Breaking News" wasn't ever adopted
09:46<TrueBrain>screen. T
09:46<TrueBrain> on the smaller screens of the time, and was dropped not long afterward.
09:46<TrueBrain>is what we received
09:46<Eddi|zuHause>supermop_Home: yes, it was two messages, but part of the first message was silently dropped by the server
09:46<supermop_Home>i see
09:46<TrueBrain> is more clear :)
09:47<TrueBrain>I have the same issue with my client :) (Matrix IRC bridge)
09:48<supermop_Home>Eddi|zuHause here the permanent tickers didn't start until 9/11, but then never went away
09:49<supermop_Home>so in the absence of ongoing crises whatever rehashes of regular news stories became the crisis
09:49<Eddi|zuHause>supermop_Home: i mean stuff like live-helicopter-car-chases
09:49<supermop_Home>before then they were used occasionally for sever weather / snow day school closures
09:50<milek7>this is likely server bug, IRC allows 512 bytes per message
09:50<milek7>so client calculates proper length to fit into 512b messages
09:50<Eddi|zuHause>"Breaking News: In areas with more than 200 new infections per 100.000 inhabitants, people aren't allowed to travel further than 15km from their homes"
09:50<TrueBrain>hmm .. can you use money-cheat in multiplayer as server ...
09:51<milek7>but irc server stucks its own hostname or something into message, and now it overflows
09:51<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: i think you can't
09:52<TrueBrain>starts singleplayer, gives lot of money, start server from savegame
09:52<TrueBrain>works as well :D
09:52<Eddi|zuHause>that works, yes
09:52<milek7>hmm, or maybe client should also substract hostname length, but I don't know if client knows it fully
09:54<milek7>so it seems clients needs to substract its own hostname to calculate proper length
09:54<milek7>but RFC don't say anything that it has to do it, so...
09:56<Borg>well.. it aint that bad
09:56<Borg>irv private message looks like this: PRIVMSG <target> :<string>
09:56<Borg>so.. usualy.. you need to substract around 20 bytes from 510...
09:56<TrueBrain>hmm, found another fun bug when looking at another .. you can give other people 0 money in network games :)
09:56<TrueBrain>that makes no sense :P
09:57<Borg>but of course.. if you target multiple targets.. your <string> shortens
09:57<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 opened issue #8498: Add some way to sort or filter the vehicle list such that crashed vehicles are shown first.
09:57<Borg>also.. that 510 bytes per message limitation is only or client -> server... server <-> server can talk full blown
09:58<Borg>just supermop_Home IRC client is b0rked.. thats all
09:59<FLHerne>milek7: The RFC explicitly says that the 512-byte limit includes the command and any parameters
10:00<FLHerne>> IRC messages are always lines of characters terminated with a CR-LF (Carriage Return - Line Feed) pair, and these messages shall not exceed 512 characters in length, counting all characters including the trailing CR-LF. Thus, there are 510 characters maximum allowed for the command and its parameters.
10:01<milek7>but I don't think command is the issue there
10:01<FLHerne>TrueBrain: Well, why not?
10:01<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on issue #8498: Add some way to sort or filter the vehicle list such that crashed vehicles are shown first.
10:02<FLHerne>supermop_Home: What was the missing section of your message?
10:02<milek7>FLHerne: but the issue that server adds client hostname before broadcasting to other servers
10:02<Borg>milek7: no! its not the issue
10:02<Borg>servers <-> server and server -> client does NOT impose that limit
10:02<milek7>apparently it is
10:02<milek7>his message was 430 char long
10:03<Borg>its only client -> server to protect servers from flooding and excessive large messages
10:03<FLHerne>supermop_Home: (or, how long is it)
10:03<milek7>and PRIVMSG #openttd is around 20 or so
10:03<milek7>so where ~60 characters went?
10:03<Borg>milek7: well, then OFTC ircd is broken.. but.. I will do RTFS now..
10:04<Borg>milek7: servers append this to every command originating from client: <nick>!<user>@host COMMAND ...
10:04<Borg>lets see if they are as well length checked.
10:07<Borg>yep.. my good old IRCd doesnt fiddle with messages.. but OFTC ircd perphaps do... its new age ircd after all.. added a lot of things..
10:07<Eddi|zuHause>can we teleport crashed vehicles to a random depot, instead of deleting them?
10:08<Eddi|zuHause>(imagine some crash investigation authority gathering the parts)
10:08<Borg>milek7: yep.. and I found it.. its truncating the message to 510 bytes...
10:08<Borg>so.. not SMART :(
10:09<Timberwolf>Eddi|zuHause: Go full classic Microprose: when there is a crash, switch to an X-COM tactical mission.
10:09<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #8499: Fix: allow input of numbers greater than INT32_MAX for GiveMoney
10:10<Eddi|zuHause>Timberwolf: i haven't actually ever played X-COM
10:12<Borg>milek7: so I wonder if this is standard or not.... if it is on majority of ircds.. to truncate messages to 510 bytes.. then clients should actully use 410 limit on PRIVMSG/NOTICES to be on safe side
10:13<FLHerne>Eddi|zuHause: but why
10:13<FLHerne>Oh, messages
10:13<Borg>Timberwolf: haha :D good one
10:13<Eddi|zuHause>FLHerne: so a player can figure out what he needs to replace
10:16<twpol>Borg: Yup, ChatZilla and Ambassador (same codebase, been around for >20 years) limit to 400 characters because that's easier than trying to guess the prefix the server will add:
10:17<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] lukasradek commented on issue #7611: Accident/disaster news not always showing
10:17<Borg>twpol: nice... lets see irssi out of curiosity
10:20<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8497: Fix: keeps news about accidents around after vehicle is cleaned up
10:20<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #7611: Accident/disaster news not always showing
10:21<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8497: Fix: keeps news about accidents around after vehicle is cleaned up
10:22<Samu>Is this good english? * Get the number of raised corners of two given slopes combined.
10:23<Borg>twpol: ugh.. irssi code is fuzzy... primary function that talks to ircd.. checks for 510 bytes.. but trying out to figure how PRIVMSG are sent
10:23<Samu>i smash a slope into another with a &, and then i count corners
10:29<FLHerne>Samu: That sounds like a "why would you do that?!" problem more than an English one
10:30<Samu>it's so that I don't repeat code
10:30<Samu>sec, let me update PR in a min
10:30<Samu>you'll see
10:31<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #8492: Fix: Don't allow towns to terraform certain floodable tiles
10:32<Samu>oh, forgot the return
10:32<Samu>I'm bad
10:34<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] lukasradek commented on issue #7611: Accident/disaster news not always showing
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10:35<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #8492: Fix: Don't allow towns to terraform certain floodable tiles
10:36<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #7611: Accident/disaster news not always showing
10:36<Samu>lol commit checker
10:36<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #8492: Fix: Don't allow towns to terraform certain floodable tiles
10:36<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #7611: Accident/disaster news not always showing
10:41<supermop_Home>Eddi|zuHause i do wish a way to clone crashed vehicles lasted longer than the wreck on the road
10:41<supermop_Home>this was more an issue for me playing tto in the 90s when i constantly was crashing busses and planes
10:42<supermop_Home>and you couldn't clone so id have to build a new one and hope i could get the orders replicated
10:44<TrueBrain>I think we all agree there :)
10:44<TrueBrain>it seems I found someone willing to give that a spin to implement :)
10:45<Eddi|zuHause>let's see about that :p
10:46<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] lukasradek commented on issue #7611: Accident/disaster news not always showing
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10:46<TrueBrain>well, you can't say I am not trying :D
10:47<debdog>a list of formerly crashed vehicles where the user can replace each listed vehicle or remove it manually from that list. sounds nice
10:48<TrueBrain>I am trying to backport a patch from JGRPP to upstream, but boy, that is not easy :D Git doesn't really make it simple to do so ... :D
10:50<Eddi|zuHause>that might be tricky once the branches diverged a bunch
10:52<FLHerne>TrueBrain: `git cherry-pick`?
10:52<FLHerne>If there are a ton of conflicts, that's not really git's fault
10:52<FLHerne>(and you can play with different merge strategies to see which gets least confused)
10:53<TrueBrain>I know how cherry-pick works, tnx ;)
10:53<TrueBrain>the problem is changes on top of the change, that you want to know about
10:57<Borg>TrueBrain: did you tried to merge master to that sha1 on separate branch?
11:00<TrueBrain>owh boy, and now I have to learn the Window system ... not sure if I want to :D
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11:13<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on issue #7611: Accident/disaster news not always showing
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11:27<Samu>towns can build tunnels, hmm
11:27<Samu>i say hmm, because tunnels can terraform
11:27<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on issue #7611: Accident/disaster news not always showing
11:27<TrueBrain>spent 30 minutes on getting to look as I would expect
11:28<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #7611: Accident/disaster news not always showing
11:29<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8498: Add some way to sort or filter the vehicle list such that crashed vehicles are shown first.
11:30<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8498: Add some way to find and recover crashed vehicles
11:30<Samu>glx: - I know, I need help on that one to avoid using globals
11:36<supermop_Home>now i'm listening to the wave race 64 soundtrack
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11:49<TrueBrain>bah .. so I finish backporting a nice patch, to find out there are several bugs with it :)
11:49<TrueBrain>I wonder if JGRPP also has those bugs, or if they are fixed there
11:50<TrueBrain>see, another patch I missed .. lol
11:55<+glx>looking at how to do #8468 nicely, I just noticed GetCargoTransportedSortValue() is not aware of 16 out cargo :)
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11:56<+glx>IndustryProductionSorter() is not either
11:56<+glx>oh it is, my bad
11:56<+glx>there's a loop
11:56<andythenorth>I recall some kind of shenanigan about how we'd fit all the cargos into the window :)
11:57<+glx>but transported only look at first 2 cargos
11:57<andythenorth>I _thought_ it was solved :)
11:57<andythenorth>oof transported :P
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12:03<TrueBrain>OpenTTD chat is a bit weird, I am finding out :D
12:03<TrueBrain>you can send from yourself to a company
12:04<TrueBrain>so you can sneak money away without anyone noticing
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12:12<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #8500: Change: move "give money" from client-list to company window
12:12<TrueBrain>not perfect yet (see limitations), but looking for opinions ^^
12:12<TrueBrain>LordAro is going to love me, as I removed 2 globals :)
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12:19<Samu>you're working around the clock
12:19<frosch123>sounds like tax evasion
12:22<andythenorth>oof tax return time looms
12:22<andythenorth>thanks :(
12:22<andythenorth>January, the bleakest month :D
12:22<milek7>borg: twpol: tbh it looks like protocol flaw
12:22<LordAro>TrueBrain: :D
12:23<Samu>i'd rather have the "give money" not exposed so easily
12:23<milek7>imo only sensible thing would be to server splitting message, if it doesn't fit after processing
12:30<andythenorth> so many ships I could draw
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12:33<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8499: Fix: allow input of numbers greater than INT32_MAX for GiveMoney
12:37<frosch123>i still don't know how integer promotion works :)
12:37<Samu>can somebody fix that unary minus something already :p
12:38<Samu>or do you want me to do it?
12:44<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac commented on pull request #8495: Feature: Prevent tunnels from being built under mines
12:44<Samu>glx, I just noticed IndustryTransportedCargoSorter isn't used
12:44<Samu>i commented it out, and apparently everything still runs fine
12:45<+glx>it's listed in sorter_func
12:47<Samu>removed it from there too
12:49<Samu>oh, maybe you're right, let me try sort by transported
12:49<Samu>lol, stupid me
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12:52<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #8468: Fix #8316: Make sort industries by production with a cargo filter possible
12:54<Samu>wow, I see
12:56<+glx>it's still a "global" but it's scoped
12:58<Samu>transported filter also needs a similar treatment
12:58<Samu>sort by transported, with a cargo production
12:58<Samu>as the selected cargo
12:59<+glx>transported does support more than 2 cargos yet anyway
12:59<Samu>like for example, livestock percentage transported, sort by transported
12:59<Samu>it messes up with grain, doesn't look sorted
13:00<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed issue #7750: Overflow issue when sending money in multiplayer
13:00<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8499: Fix: allow input of numbers greater than INT32_MAX for GiveMoney
13:02<Samu>i kinda forgot about Sort by Transported %
13:02<Samu>was too focused on Sort by Production
13:04<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #8468: Fix #8316: Make sort industries by production with a cargo filter possible
13:04<+glx>and I forgot a "not" in my last message :)
13:09<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #8500: Change: move "give money" from client-list to company window
13:09<frosch123>oh, wrong button.
13:10<frosch123>more comments to follow
13:11<FLHerne>frosch123: It's whichever is largest out of both arguments and `int`
13:14<Samu>wow, Sort by Transported % won't be easy to fix
13:15<Samu>i just looked into it, seems that it only takes the 2 first producing cargoes from the industry
13:16<Samu>need to investigate better
13:17<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] saveinthesky opened issue #8501: OTTD crashes on start macosx . Log
13:20<andythenorth>just no?
13:20<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8501: OTTD crashes on start macosx . Log
13:21<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on issue #8501: OTTD crashes on start macosx . Log
13:21<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8500: Change: move "give money" from client-list to company window
13:22<LordAro>almost certainly #8066
13:22<TrueBrain>it is a good moment to test if our nightly really is fixing all those MacOS issues ;)
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13:25<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #8500: Change: move "give money" from client-list to company window
13:26<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8500: Change: move "give money" from client-list to company window
13:26<TrueBrain>I am happy frosch123 has as many WTFs as I had :P
13:27<frosch123>albert's gui system is actually quite nice. you should train a bit with it :)
13:28<TrueBrain>I spend more than an hour with it, fiddling to get this icon correct
13:28<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master
13:28<@DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
13:28<TrueBrain>what I do not like, at all, is that there was a lack of hitting the freaking enter in all the definitions :P
13:28<TrueBrain>they are just huge blobs of text :D
13:28<TrueBrain>but most of it feels inuitive
13:28<TrueBrain>grr, typing, hard
13:34<TrueBrain>frosch123: I only do not understand why the View HQ button is bigger than the Password button by default
13:34<TrueBrain>I cannot discover what causes that
13:35<TrueBrain>I guess the spacer with minimal size of 90 causes it
13:36<frosch123>as long as you font size is small: "view hq" = "password icon" + "password button" = 90
13:36<frosch123>but when your font becomes bigger, that all breaks down
13:36<TrueBrain>but that 90 feels magic to me :D
13:36<TrueBrain>(of the view HQ button)
13:37<TrueBrain>as if widgets auto-align to the same size in their container?
13:37<TrueBrain>I am missing a piece of the puzzle :)
13:37<frosch123>yes, that's the point of containers :)
13:37<TrueBrain>okay, so the selection with a spacer causes the whole container to act like that
13:37<frosch123>or rahter, that's the point of SetFill
13:37<TrueBrain>The Company GUI is build up a bit annoying ... I expected a left column and a right column
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13:38<TrueBrain>but instead it is build from top to bottom
13:38<frosch123>"SetFill" means "use all the space in the container"
13:38<TrueBrain>yeah, okay, and everything in a selection is precalculated
13:38<TrueBrain>that makes sense
13:38<TrueBrain>(as in, the size of the first item in a selection influence the second one
13:38<TrueBrain>I wonder if I shouldn't just completely rebuild the Company GUI (with the same look&feel)
13:39<TrueBrain>but .... it is so easy to get lost in that :P
13:39<frosch123>with the infrastructure/vehicle counts, it's not that easy
13:39<frosch123>you could just set the size of the buttons in UpdateWidgetSize
13:39<frosch123>and remove all the minimumsize
13:39<TrueBrain>it does require me to copy/paste the STR_ of them, it seems
13:39<TrueBrain>at least, that is what they do in all other windows, from what I can tell
13:40<TrueBrain>I don't like code-duplication :)
13:40<frosch123>it's a lot shorter than looking up the text via GetWidget
13:42<TrueBrain>okay, syncing the sizes looks a lot better
13:42<frosch123>but yes, the company window is one of the worst :)
13:42<frosch123>buttons all over the place
13:43<frosch123>some buttons are right of the stuff they belong to
13:43<frosch123>others are at the bottom
13:43<frosch123>colour schema button could be next to the colour schema text
13:43<frosch123>manager name button could be next to the manager name
13:43<frosch123>same with face
13:44<frosch123>i think that's the reason i did not touch that gui in the location/rename PR :p
13:44<TrueBrain>I just wanted to fix this very ugly password buttno :P
13:44<andythenorth>let's not talk about colour schemes window though :)
13:44<TrueBrain>yeah, any idea why the A is misaligned btw frosch123 ?
13:44<andythenorth>buttno :P
13:45<frosch123>TrueBrain: it's misaligned because there is nothing to align it to :p
13:45<TrueBrain>but other buttons are aligned ..
13:45<frosch123>aligning icons and texts does not work, because icons and text are scaled differently
13:45<frosch123>aligning icons does not work, because the X is not aligned in the first place
13:45<TrueBrain>X is off by a pixel or so, yes :D
13:46<frosch123>technially i have to align the icon with the X of the original graphics
13:46<frosch123>ogfx can align the A differently
13:46<frosch123>but it will never align with the text
13:46<frosch123>so, a pencil is probably better than a letter
13:47<TrueBrain>that solves the issue too, yes :D
13:47<frosch123>but a pencil in 10x10 in monochrome is kind of hard
13:47<TrueBrain>the URL I linked had some other suggestions, I guess
13:47<TrueBrain>grrrrr, now my password icon is again in the wrong place :P
13:47<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Kuhnovic commented on pull request #8274: Feature: option to auto remove signals when in the way during rail co…
13:47<TrueBrain>ah .. there we go
13:48<TrueBrain>I have to add a spacer in the vertical container, where I expect the horizontal container
13:49<TrueBrain>oops .. SetFill takes x / y
13:49<frosch123>TrueBrain: i guess "DrawSprite(SPR_LOCK, PAL_NONE, r.left,;" should be changed to "DrawSprite(SPR_LOCK, PAL_NONE, rtl ? r.left : r.right - r.width + 1,;"
13:49<frosch123>so the icon is right-aligned for LTR languages, and left-aligned for RTL languages
13:51<TrueBrain>owh, you can right-align stuff .. I was just padding it on the left, or at least, trying to :D
13:51<TrueBrain>r.width does not exist :(
13:51<andythenorth>I will probably draw some icons
13:51<frosch123>well, i means the sprite width
13:51<frosch123>r.width was wrong anyway :)
13:51<andythenorth>10x10 mono is quite a jump from drawing ships :P
13:52<frosch123>TrueBrain: ah, you can also insert another spacer
13:52<frosch123>make one space do the fill, and make the icon one fixed size
13:52<TrueBrain>well, I expected I had to do that inside the horizontal container
13:52<TrueBrain>but I have to do it in the vertical
13:53<TrueBrain>which I do not understand
13:53<TrueBrain>but it does work :P
13:53<frosch123>andythenorth: i used some grey in the eye icon, so not pure mono
13:53<TrueBrain>owh, I think I get it
13:53<andythenorth>ok pencil challenge :P
13:54<andythenorth>are our icons now just mono then?
13:54<andythenorth>I guess they're just sprites eh
13:54<+glx>when touching GUI IIRC it's nice to try hebrew to check alignment ;)
13:55<frosch123>but you have to remember the location of the change language combobox in advance, and be able to mirror it in your head :)
13:55<Xaroth>or learn hebrew very very quickly.
13:56<Wolf01>Or change the openttd.cfg manually
13:56<TrueBrain>is there a way to debug windows, like where it draws rectangles around the widgets or something?
13:56<TrueBrain>or start the game with -x guys ... use the parameters available! :P
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13:57<frosch123>i don't think we have that
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13:58<TrueBrain>hmm .. vertical alignment of icon is a bit weird
13:58<TrueBrain>frosch123: you don't think we have the -x I have been using all day? :D
14:00<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #8455: Unified GUI buttons for renaming and scrolling to entities
14:00<TrueBrain>(sorry, out of sync comments are fun :P)
14:00<TrueBrain>it is just hard to debug now from time to time to see where a container is .. guess I could color them somehow
14:00<TrueBrain>well, got it to work, so happy days \o/
14:01<andythenorth>I broke the image how?
14:01<andythenorth>GH hates it :)
14:02<andythenorth>maybe it hates indexed pngs
14:03<LordAro>i was just about to say
14:04<TrueBrain>interesting, what you did there andythenorth :)
14:04<TrueBrain>andythenorth: you clicked save too quickly
14:04<andythenorth>such user
14:04<TrueBrain>ooeehhh, a pencil
14:04<andythenorth>anyway a version
14:07*supermop_Home had mulled wine at lunch
14:11<andythenorth>eye icon is harder
14:12<andythenorth>ellipse shape in 10 px
14:12<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8500: Change: move "give money" from client-list to company window
14:12<TrueBrain>not done yet, still need to fix chat ^^
14:12<andythenorth>with round pupil and highlight :P
14:12<TrueBrain>but the window thingies should be fine now :D
14:12<andythenorth>we want 'eye' yes, not 'cross-hairs' like maps use?
14:12<TrueBrain>tnx a lot frosch123 for the pointers :)
14:13<supermop_Home>andythenorth i feel like a google map pin would be intuitive
14:13<andythenorth>pin pins the window though
14:14<supermop_Home>i like the crosshairs, but to a newcomer idk how they could possibly be understood to mean move the view to this location
14:15<supermop_Home>the eye is a little surreal though
14:16<frosch123>andythenorth: it only has to fit the original baseset, make it SF style :p
14:16<TrueBrain>okay, a real n00b question: DoCommandP is called with CMD_MSG(STR_ERROR_INSUFFICIENT_FUNDS)
14:16<TrueBrain>but this is not always the correct error ...
14:17<TrueBrain>can you have more than one error from a DoCommandP?
14:17<TrueBrain>I guess not ..
14:17<frosch123>the command can return a message
14:18<frosch123>the CMD_MSG is only used, if the command returns fail without message
14:18<TrueBrain>ah! :D
14:18<TrueBrain>tnx :)
14:18<andythenorth>frosch123 now with eye
14:18<TrueBrain>so much fun! A "grep" on the wrong thing can crash VSCode
14:18<TrueBrain>like .. how? :P
14:19<frosch123>andythenorth: i'll make some in-game screenshots with different window colors
14:20<andythenorth>I'm a big fan of 8455 :P
14:21<andythenorth>creates space in the vehicle window...
14:21<TrueBrain>it is awesome, that is for sure :)
14:22<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8500: Change: move "give money" from client-list to company window
14:23<andythenorth>"Over 90 percent of pre-2000 gaming source code may already be gone."
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14:24<TrueBrain>sending chat in singleplayer crashes the game, shocker :)
14:24<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] kabal2020 commented on pull request #8274: Feature: option to auto remove signals when in the way during rail co…
14:25<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8274: Feature: option to auto remove signals when in the way during rail co…
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14:32<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8500: Change: move "give money" from client-list to company window
14:32<TrueBrain>okay ... now for the stupid chat stuff ..... hmmm
14:35<supermop_Home>i think sim city 3000 was underrated
14:36<TrueBrain>ah, chat is done in a callback as you want to know self vs other, I guess
14:37<supermop_Home>sc4 was more fun tho infuriatingly buggy
14:37<supermop_Home>3000 felt a little lost in the cracks
14:37<supermop_Home>but had a lot of nice touches
14:38<supermop_Home>cute sprite design, good music
14:38<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #8455: Unified GUI buttons for renaming and scrolling to entities
14:38<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] kabal2020 commented on pull request #8274: Feature: option to auto remove signals when in the way during rail co…
14:38<frosch123>i think we need another icon iteration
14:39<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8455: Unified GUI buttons for renaming and scrolling to entities
14:40<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8274: Feature: option to auto remove signals when in the way during rail co…
14:40<TrueBrain>pencil is a lot more clear than the A at least :D
14:40<TrueBrain>nice :D
14:41<frosch123>andythenorth: i changed the pencil to 9x9, that's the size of the X
14:41<TrueBrain>chat doesn't work in single-player .. what to use to tell about the money transfer there .. hmm
14:42<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/team] lorimonti opened issue #121: [it_IT] Translator access request
14:42<frosch123>well, the X is 8x8, but it looks weird when the tip of the pencil extends over the bottom of the X
14:42<frosch123>on the top the pencil can be longer
14:43<frosch123>TrueBrain: does it need telling? only one player could issue it
14:43<TrueBrain>good point!
14:50<supermop_Home>write an AI that likes to send money?
14:51<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler commented on issue #8498: Add some way to find and recover crashed vehicles
14:51<TrueBrain>frosch123: basically the callback was used as DoCommandP doesn't know the player who did somethng, only the company
14:51<TrueBrain>but I guess it is perfectly fine to mention which company wired money to what company
14:51<TrueBrain>instead of which player
14:53<frosch123>haha, true, now the culprit can push blame onto another company member
14:53<TrueBrain>that is the only drawback
14:53<TrueBrain>I can leave the callback in, but you are right, clients can block the message
14:53<TrueBrain>so it is all a bit .... so-so
14:54<Wolf01>I'm not sure about the eye icon
14:54<frosch123>make it company only :)
14:54<Samu>glx, which sorter makes more sense? It's sorted by transported and produced cargo: all cargo
14:54<TrueBrain>company only?
14:54<frosch123>there is no point in attributing actions to clients
14:54<frosch123>they have to trust each other in every build action
14:54<frosch123>so money is nothing special
14:54<TrueBrain>yeah, that is what I did now
14:54<TrueBrain>you see money from company to company
14:54<TrueBrain>not which player did that
14:55<TrueBrain>(well, not pushed yet)
14:56<TrueBrain>ugh, getting company name is HARD :P
14:57<frosch123>{COMPANY} ?
14:57<TrueBrain>yeah, you have to use GetString
14:57<frosch123>oh, i guess the old message used the language of the sending client :)
14:58<TrueBrain>-STR_NETWORK_MESSAGE_GIVE_MONEY :*** {RAW_STRING} gave your company {2:CURRENCY_LONG}
14:58<TrueBrain>how is eints going to handle this?
14:59<frosch123>it will remove the invalid translations from git
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14:59<frosch123>but still remember the, and display them as "invalid" to the translators
14:59<Samu>glx, this one is sort by transported with produced cargo: livestock[/img]
15:00<frosch123>unless you reset the eints storage
15:00<frosch123>(don't do that :p )
15:01<Samu>the all cargo filter looks kinda bad still
15:01<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8500: Change: move "give money" from client-list to company window
15:01<TrueBrain>frosch123: good, that is what I would expect :)
15:02<TrueBrain>well, this PR went a bit overboard
15:02<TrueBrain>but okay
15:02<frosch123>you found a rabbit hole :)
15:03<TrueBrain>well, your fault :P
15:03<TrueBrain>you confirmed what I wanted to do, but refrained from doing :D
15:03<TrueBrain>owh, and I created some merge-conflicts with it for JGR with this PR .. it does things differently enough that it doesn't cleanly merge
15:04<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8500: Change: move "give money" from client-list to company window
15:05<TrueBrain>but, 1 less Cc, 2 less globals, and one ugly hack gone :D That should count for something!
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15:06<TrueBrain>hmm, I can send which player did it
15:07<TrueBrain>DoCommandP have a "text" field ofc
15:07<frosch123>there is a special CMD_XYZ in command.cpp to make the server put the clientid into p1 or p2
15:07<Wolf01>Hardcode "TB did it!"
15:07<frosch123>the clients cannot fake that
15:07<TrueBrain>both p1 and p2 are already used, but that is a good point
15:07<Samu>can AIs give money? doubtful
15:09<frosch123>still see no reason why the player is important though
15:09<TrueBrain>you are right
15:09<TrueBrain>okay, I will not purse this :P
15:10<TrueBrain>okay, this is weird ...
15:10<andythenorth>frosch123 does it look good? :)
15:11<TrueBrain>char msg[64]; was used in GiveMoney
15:11<TrueBrain>so ... what is it? :D
15:11<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #8500: Change: move "give money" from client-list to company window
15:12<frosch123>TrueBrain: i cannot comment on commit messages, maybe mention that client-language thing in the last commit?
15:12<TrueBrain>only the company names were used from the sending client
15:12<TrueBrain>the rest was translated correctly
15:12<TrueBrain>is that worth mentioning?
15:13<frosch123>oh, i thought it was send like a regular chat message
15:13<TrueBrain>no, only snippets
15:13<frosch123>but that explains why noone reported it
15:13<TrueBrain>but how many bytes is a company name ....
15:14<frosch123>ottd limits all names with 32 unicode chars, and then reserves 4 times the size in bytes
15:14<TrueBrain>news also does 64
15:14<frosch123>so 32 vs 128 is CHARS vs BYTES
15:14<TrueBrain>well, times 2 in the case of company name, as it turns out :P
15:14<TrueBrain>but for networking, it is times 4
15:14<TrueBrain>which is confusing as fuck :D
15:15<TrueBrain>I was hoping to find a constant for it ..
15:15<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8500: Change: move "give money" from client-list to company window
15:16<TrueBrain>MAX_LENGTH_COMPANY_NAME_CHARS * 2 valid? Or just weird? :D
15:16<frosch123>TrueBrain: you find both "MAX_LENGTH_COMPANY_NAME_CHARS" and "MAX_LENGTH_COMPANY_NAME_CHARS * MAX_CHAR_LENGTH" in the source
15:16<frosch123>no idea where you get the "* 2" from
15:16<frosch123>but that looks wrong :)
15:16<TrueBrain>the code already read [64]
15:17<TrueBrain>news does the same
15:17<frosch123>well, replace them with MAX_LENGTH_COMPANY_NAME_CHARS * MAX_CHAR_LENGTH :)
15:17<andythenorth>the i icon suffers from being an ellipse with sharp tails, locked in a square
15:17<frosch123>more rabbits
15:17<andythenorth>maybe we should give it eyelashes
15:18<frosch123>messed more with the icons, time for new screenshots
15:18<andythenorth>I am eyelashing
15:18<andythenorth>weird AF
15:18<andythenorth>but the shape fits the bounding box better
15:18<TrueBrain>frosch123: except or the fact it is stored in a savegame in some places .. so I cannot replace them easily
15:18<TrueBrain>right, the rabbit hole stops here :D
15:19<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8500: Change: move "give money" from client-list to company window
15:20<TrueBrain>this wasn't even in the 1.11 milestone, ffs :P
15:20<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #8455: Unified GUI buttons for renaming and scrolling to entities
15:22<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #8455: Unified GUI buttons for renaming and scrolling to entities
15:22<TrueBrain>I like the eye andy posted
15:22<frosch123>andythenorth: your eye is aligned with the debug icon, it should be aligned with the other 3
15:22<andythenorth>mine is quite Addams family
15:23<andythenorth>I aligned it with the pin, but it depends if we think the line is with windowshade icon
15:24<andythenorth>windowshade is off-grid in my opinion, but it also makes sense for the feature
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15:27<LordAro>TrueBrain: got a bit of time, are you waiting on me for anything/need a review/etc?
15:28<TrueBrain>LordAro: you expect me to say no to that? :D
15:28<frosch123>i put your eye one pixel higer, it looks better when the pupil is aligned with the windowsize-dot
15:28<TrueBrain>waiting on you is strong, but .. :)
15:29<TrueBrain>LordAro:, and making and a bit the same and passable
15:29<TrueBrain>LordAro: finishing would be nice too :)
15:30<TrueBrain>triaging will be fun :D
15:30<TrueBrain>and I was hoping you could solve / close :)
15:30<TrueBrain>enough? :P
15:30<andythenorth>I have made a horrible alternative eye
15:31*andythenorth isn't posting it
15:31<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Kuhnovic updated pull request #8274: Feature: option to auto remove signals when in the way during rail co…
15:31<andythenorth>frosch123 done?
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15:38<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8497: Fix: keeps news about accidents around after vehicle is cleaned up
15:38<LordAro>TrueBrain: :)
15:38<LordAro>#8063 is probably a bit too much, it turned into something bigger than i was expecting :)
15:38<TrueBrain>LordAro: I indeed add those when squashing if I don't forget .. I find it highly annoying that every force push, the cmmit is mentioned in an issue :P
15:39<LordAro>yeah, that's fair :)
15:39<TrueBrain>LordAro: too bad; close it? keep it around? (8063)
15:39<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed issue #7611: Accident/disaster news not always showing
15:39<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8497: Fix: keeps news about accidents around after vehicle is cleaned up
15:39<LordAro>TrueBrain: i mean too much for right now :p
15:39<TrueBrain>fair :)
15:39<LordAro>though there's not exactly consensus on how it should be handled
15:44<TrueBrain>I haven't really read up on it, I just now I find it weird I cannot change towns when I don't have RVs :P
15:45<Samu>glx, if (this->industries.SortType() != 3) {
15:45<Samu>I didn't want to use a number here
15:46<Samu>do the filters have a name, enum or so?
15:46<Samu>3 means Sort by Transported
15:46<frosch123>TrueBrain: LordAro: andythenorth: <- i edited last post with 2 options for the pencil, 3 options for the eye
15:46<Samu>2 means Sort by Produced
15:46<frosch123>you have to look closely :)
15:46<Samu>1 is by Type, 0 is by Name
15:47<TrueBrain>B / X for me
15:47<TrueBrain>Y looks like a totem, and now I cannot unsee that :D
15:47<TrueBrain>A vs B is a toss-up, really
15:47<+glx>Samu: I don't think there's an enum as it was not needed
15:49<Samu>hmm, where would i place this enum?
15:49<Wolf01>B / X for me too
15:50<+glx>inside the class I guess
15:51<Timberwolf>B / X but I don't like any of the eye options.
15:51<andythenorth>popular vote
15:51<TrueBrain>Timberwolf: make us something better? :D
15:51<Timberwolf>You've seen how bad my UI sprites are, right? :p
15:52<andythenorth>the pencils are potato / potato
15:52<Wolf01>I don't like the eye at all for that button
15:52<Wolf01>But X is the best one
15:52<andythenorth>I don't like the eye but if we shipped it I wouldn't complain
15:52<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 approved pull request #8500: Change: move "give money" from client-list to company window
15:53<andythenorth>drawing tiny icons is horrible
15:53<Wolf01>What about a camera or a binocular?
15:54<Timberwolf>Yup. What's the resolution here?
15:54<frosch123>10x10 or 10x9 depending on how well it aligns with the other icons
15:55<andythenorth>binoculars look like handcuffs :P
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15:56<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8500: Change: move "give money" from client-list to company window
15:58<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #8455: Unified GUI buttons for renaming and scrolling to entities
15:59<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] mattkimber commented on pull request #8455: Unified GUI buttons for renaming and scrolling to entities
15:59<Wolf01> like the one on the 5th row 4th column, it should be possible to draw in 10x10
16:00<TrueBrain>sorry andythenorth , that doesn't do it for me :(
16:00<andythenorth>me neither
16:00<Wolf01>Those binoculars need some depth :P
16:00<andythenorth>I tried rotating them, but nah
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16:03<Samu>if (this->industries.SortType() != IDW_SORT_BY_TRANSPORTED) {
16:04<Samu>much better name
16:04<Samu>3 was ugly
16:04<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #8455: Unified GUI buttons for renaming and scrolling to entities
16:05<TrueBrain> top left, is that something?
16:06<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #8455: Unified GUI buttons for renaming and scrolling to entities
16:06<frosch123>andythenorth: too big, you made it 11x11
16:07<andythenorth>it's bad anyway
16:07<Wolf01>OMG, I tried to draw something in paint... it's... hideous
16:07<andythenorth>TrueBrain the map pin?
16:07<andythenorth>they're really hard to do without vectors
16:07*andythenorth has spent a year working on map stuff
16:07<andythenorth>I'll try one
16:08<andythenorth>hmm looks like a toy balloon
16:09*Timberwolf likes the target and snowflake-target options.
16:10<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #8455: Unified GUI buttons for renaming and scrolling to entities
16:10<andythenorth>^ too heavy at the moment
16:11<andythenorth>also relies on grey pixels for anti-aliasing, dislike
16:11<TrueBrain>if that can be made a bit nicer in such a small dimension, that might be obvious to everyone
16:11<LordAro>that is a lot of buttons
16:11<TrueBrain>but now it indeed looks odd :D
16:12<TrueBrain>either way, I am fine with X. It aint perfect maybe, but it is clear once you pressed it once :D
16:12<andythenorth>I'd go with X
16:12<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #8455: Unified GUI buttons for renaming and scrolling to entities
16:12<andythenorth>it's a trivial improvement later if someone can do better
16:13<andythenorth>ooh the movie camera
16:13<andythenorth>CCTV camera is most appropriate eh
16:13<frosch123>yay, someone recognised it :)
16:13<TrueBrain>T works too for me
16:13<TrueBrain>but it is currently not centered :P
16:14<TrueBrain>(in both X and Y :P)
16:14<Timberwolf>Yeah, I think the film camera has potential.
16:14<frosch123>Y won't happen, X is possible
16:14<Timberwolf>I didn't think of doing one without the tape reels.
16:14<andythenorth>ok well that was more fun than other things
16:14<TrueBrain>owh, I meant x-axis and y-axis, not icon X and Y, to be clear :D
16:15<frosch123>i understood that :)
16:15<andythenorth>can we draw a predator tracking drone in 10x10? :P
16:16<TrueBrain>can we make that if you look really close, you see another universe?
16:16<andythenorth>TrueBrain there are fractal videos on YouTube, try those :P
16:18<FLHerne>Map pin is nice
16:18<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Wolfolo commented on pull request #8455: Unified GUI buttons for renaming and scrolling to entities
16:19<TrueBrain>I kinda like the way the camera looks of Wolf01
16:20<TrueBrain>too much pixels ... E_PIXEL_OUT
16:20<Wolf01>I also fixed the binoculars, they looked like a cat at the first attempt
16:20*LordAro applies +1
16:22<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] mattkimber commented on pull request #8455: Unified GUI buttons for renaming and scrolling to entities
16:23<TrueBrain>that is a nice camera too
16:24<FLHerne>It's a nice-looking camera, but it makes me think 'screenshot' more than 'jump to position'
16:24<TrueBrain>yeah ... the map pin still is most clear for me
16:25<TrueBrain>but making that look good is HARD
16:25<FLHerne>Yeah, the Google-esque one is a bit anachronistic for a '90s interface
16:25<andythenorth>I think 'pin' and 'pin' is confusing
16:25<TrueBrain>everyone knows the mappin by now :P
16:26<Wolf01>FLHerne, yeah, the eye suits better for that, they had strange taste back in those years :P
16:26<LordAro>andythenorth: i hadn't considered that they're both "pins"
16:26<andythenorth>also the eye echoes the icon we're replacing
16:27<FLHerne>What about inward-pointing arrows?
16:27<Wolf01><andythenorth> also the eye echoes the icon we're replacing <- was it a "I"?
16:27<andythenorth>it's a big eye :P
16:27<FLHerne> like
16:27<LordAro>TrueBrain: yay/nay?
16:27<Wolf01>Nice, but it might look like an iron cross at 10x10 :S
16:28<TrueBrain>I am all for these kind of changes LordAro , but not a C++ expert, so ... no clue what the drawbacks are :P
16:28<LordAro>the only "interesting" bit is
16:29<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #8455: Unified GUI buttons for renaming and scrolling to entities
16:29<LordAro>and removing a load of casts
16:30<TrueBrain>and changing some const in constexpr :P
16:30<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #8468: Fix #8316: Make sort industries by production with a cargo filter possible
16:30<TrueBrain>so yeah, PR it, and we make michi_cc review it :P
16:30<TrueBrain>Q, T or X for me :)
16:30<Wolf01>frosch123, put in all the buttons with the same function and let players push the one they feel like it's the right one?
16:32<Wolf01>I'm for B, P, Q, W
16:32<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #8455: Unified GUI buttons for renaming and scrolling to entities
16:32<andythenorth>make it a setting!
16:32<andythenorth>if only the sprites were in a grf somewhere :P
16:33<TrueBrain>andythenorth: hard no on that last addition :P
16:33<andythenorth>you can't even tell what it is?
16:34<Timberwolf>I had that same problem with inward arrows, they either don't fit or look too light.
16:37<FLHerne>They just barely fit diagonally
16:38<Timberwolf>Heh snap, I tried the same. Can't decide if I like it or not :/
16:38<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] mattkimber commented on pull request #8455: Unified GUI buttons for renaming and scrolling to entities
16:40<Wolf01>Make default UI 2x and draw better icons? XD
16:40<frosch123>noone stops you :)
16:40<frosch123>ottd will already use the extra zoom icons
16:41<frosch123>ogfx has a few, but not all
16:41<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro opened pull request #8502: Codechange: Remove min/max functions in favour of STL variants
16:41<LordAro>and apparently i already need to rebase it
16:41<FLHerne>I tried this
16:41<TrueBrain>LordAro: very tempted to say: if CI passes, blind approve, and go go go :P
16:42<FLHerne>Without those holes in the top/bottom arrows it's a bit confusing, and with them it looks silly
16:44<LordAro>TrueBrain: very brave :p
16:44<LordAro>i at least want to check for cast warnings on all the platforms
16:45<TrueBrain> makes reviewing a bit easier, btw, in this case :)
16:45<Samu>quick question: cargos or cargoes?
16:45<TrueBrain>std::max({src->r, src->g, src->b}); <- wow, this works? Cool ..
16:45<andythenorth>potato or potatoes?
16:45<andythenorth>cargos Samu
16:46<frosch123>TrueBrain: you can even skip the ( )
16:46<frosch123>"std::max{src->r, src->g, src->b};" also works
16:46<TrueBrain>wuth?! Lol ..
16:46<TrueBrain>do we want that?
16:46<frosch123>no, i think it is considered uncool now
16:47<frosch123>c++20 fixes stuff in that area, so better not touch it
16:48<TrueBrain>I see LordAro did apply some ... "coding style" at some places :P
16:48<TrueBrain>mostly newlines ;)
16:48<andythenorth>Samu dictionary disagrees with me and says cargoes
16:48<andythenorth>but in all my native English speaking life I would never have written that
16:48<TrueBrain>OpenTTD has no more instances of cargos since a few weeks ago :P
16:49<TrueBrain>3 places LordAro split a long line with newlines :D OpenTTD has no max-width you know!! :P
16:49<TrueBrain>I am fine with it, like .. #care :P
16:49<andythenorth>mostly when I search for rules about 'cargo or cargoes' I get 'cookies'
16:49<andythenorth>the internet is fucked eh
16:50<andythenorth>most of it is useless, just these banners across every page
16:50<andythenorth>there's some browser plugin that gets rid of them somewhere
16:51<Wolf01>I once activated some banners on one site I was working on, and I needed some time to figure out why I couldn't see them
16:52<LordAro>TrueBrain: you got me to split the long comments just yesterday!
16:53<LordAro>but yes, i did decide some lines were *too* long :p
16:57<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro opened pull request #8505: Feature: Allow converting track under trains when compatible with the new rail type
16:58<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro updated pull request #8505: Feature: Allow converting track under trains when compatible with the new rail type
17:01<frosch123>does that really check for "compatible"? i.e. can you depower an electric train?
17:01<LordAro>i'll be honest, i didn't get as far as testing it
17:01<LordAro>i tend to assume JGR's stuff works :p
17:02<LordAro>but i will test it shortly
17:02<frosch123>added "preview"
17:02<LordAro>that works too
17:02<andythenorth>I would have assumed Gwyd uses JGR
17:02<andythenorth>all the active discord users seem to use JGR
17:03<Wolf01>I wonder why :P
17:04<TrueBrain>it has a lot of good things
17:04<TrueBrain>but while backporting this patchset today, I got reminded about the quality of some patches on the forum
17:04<supermop_Home>andythenorth drawing real hotels is less fun
17:05<andythenorth>supermop_Home quit and do game art :P
17:05<andythenorth>jobs are over-rated?
17:06<andythenorth>"Now think that OpenTTD is RCT1 and JGR patchpack is RCT2. "
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17:07<andythenorth>TrueBrain what's your favourite forum patch? :)
17:07<TrueBrain>no clue; never indexed it sufficiently to have an opinion
17:11<supermop_Home>andythenorth not sure which industry has least healthy hours
17:12<supermop_Home>just reading architecture theory criticism of Cyberpunk 2077 issues
17:12<frosch123>hmm, in my memory preview was faster
17:12<TrueBrain>faster to build, or to use?
17:13<frosch123>to build
17:13<TrueBrain>~10 minutes
17:13<TrueBrain>slowest target we have atm :D
17:14<supermop_Home>though reports in media of CDPR crunch as "they had to work 6 day weeks in the months leading up to release" fall on unsympathetic ears here
17:17<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #8505: Feature: Allow converting track under trains when compatible with the new rail type
17:20<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro updated pull request #8502: Codechange: Remove min/max functions in favour of STL variants
17:21<frosch123>never noticed "mouse_over_start_stop", is that new?
17:25<TrueBrain>frosch123: from C++ perspective, any reason not to do the std::min/max?
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17:26<TrueBrain>CI fails LordAro :(
17:26<LordAro>oh no
17:26<TrueBrain>no member named 'min' in namespace 'std'
17:26<LordAro>i somewhat expected as such
17:27<TrueBrain>src\os\windows\crashlog_win.cpp(222): error C3861: 'min': identifier not found
17:27<TrueBrain>that is windows
17:27<LordAro>that follows
17:27<TrueBrain>and MacOS fails too :)
17:27<TrueBrain>funny how only linux passes
17:28<TrueBrain>how does that happen?
17:28<frosch123>TrueBrain: the c++ one is exactly the same as our template
17:28<frosch123>no idea why we ever had a custom one
17:28<frosch123>minu() is special, but LordAro took care of that
17:28<TrueBrain>RichK, or what was his name?
17:28<frosch123>no idea what magic is behind our min(int, int) overload
17:28<frosch123>TrueBrain: kudr ?
17:29<TrueBrain>ah, yes
17:29<frosch123>kudr is yapf and weird misc/*hpp classes. richk is tgp, airports, and first newairports disaster
17:29<TrueBrain>one of the two just added a LOT of C++ magic templating bla in core/
17:29<TrueBrain>was his own framework
17:30<frosch123>most of it is still in misc/
17:30<TrueBrain>believe nobody could really review it, and it was one of those: what-ever, now it is in there :P
17:30<frosch123>no idea where core is from
17:30<TrueBrain>skidd started it
17:30<Samu>please someone re-review #8468, glx
17:30<Samu>someone else
17:31<Samu>going to bed, cyas goodnight
17:31<TrueBrain>ah, yes, core is skidd
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17:31<TrueBrain>KUDr was misc indeed
17:31<TrueBrain>owh, the history :P
17:32<TrueBrain>"header files with miscellaneous template classes (smart pointers, blob, array, hashtable, etc.) moved from src/yapf to src/misc as they can now be used anywhere."
17:32<TrueBrain>with commits like this:
17:33<TrueBrain>it is where I checked out from understanding those parts of the code btw :)
17:33<TrueBrain>I avoided it like the plague
17:33<LordAro>frosch123: the only "potentially weird" thing is that our one is inline, whereas STL is not
17:34<TrueBrain>it was the months of: if we do it ourself, it is better than std:: :D
17:34<TrueBrain>at least nobody added boost
17:34<TrueBrain>so we have that
17:34<frosch123>LordAro: compilers can figure out the "inline" themself
17:36<frosch123>TrueBrain: can i add the http client from boost? :p
17:36<TrueBrain>anyway, before I go find my bed: anyone in favour of ? I only see a lot of work with very little benefit, but I might be biased :D
17:36<andythenorth>I am hard -1 to doing the work
17:37<andythenorth>if it turned up 100% working patch with docs, I would be like...shrug, ship it
17:37<andythenorth>like nmlc, newgrf wiki...everything
17:37<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro updated pull request #8505: Feature: Allow converting track under trains when compatible with the new rail type
17:37<LordAro>frosch123: usually, yes
17:37<LordAro>though it's a bit trickier if the function is in a different library
17:38<frosch123>yes, but that does not apply to header templates
17:38<andythenorth>so is it bedtime?
17:39<LordAro>frosch123: oh derp, true
17:40<+glx>min/max needs <algorithm> (I had that in grfcodec)
17:41<LordAro>glx: yeah, i was hoping i could get away with it (like i can with gcc)
17:41<LordAro>probably will need to add it to algorithm
17:41<LordAro>probably will need to add <algorithm> to stdafx.h *
17:41<frosch123>TrueBrain: i have no idea either. yesterday we compared it to town authority. it's some weird restriction, that players have to work around. however, there was a similar patch on the forums in 2005, which also disallowed water wells and other. this one exclused liquid
17:41<frosch123>so, the industry selection is opinionated :)
17:42<TrueBrain>so, if it is done, via NewGRFs, which requires spec and blablablabla, lot of work
17:42<TrueBrain>k :)
17:42<frosch123>newgrf also do not work here. industry authors should not care about player playstyle
17:43<frosch123>and forking "firs with restrictions" from "firs without restrictions" is insane
17:43<TrueBrain>right ... so it is even a deeper rabbit hole
17:44<frosch123>if we had multiple gs, which can check player actions, that would be awesome, but is utopical :)
17:44<TrueBrain>but something like that would be needed, indeed
17:44<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on pull request #8505: Feature: Allow converting track under trains when compatible with the new rail type
17:44<TrueBrain>I am close to some specs for something like that btw ... I just need to validate how Squirrel VMs work again :D
17:44<TrueBrain>if creating multiple VMs is an option, or that it has to be 1 VM with multiple instances
17:45<TrueBrain>(Squirrel instances, that is)
17:45<TrueBrain>but that tomorrow :)
17:45<frosch123>every ai has a separate VM, so it is an option. but you probably already knew that :p
17:46<TrueBrain>yeah, but 1 VM per town, for example
17:46<TrueBrain>not sure if that holds up :D
17:46<TrueBrain>~20k VMs on 4kx4k? :D
17:46<frosch123>no, and i don't think you want that.
17:46<frosch123>that puts gs into the same position as newgrf: no global state
17:46<TrueBrain>I doubt that is efficient :)
17:47<TrueBrain>global state is either way something we need to talk about .. as can there be state between 2 GSes
17:47<frosch123>if gs wants per-town state, it can do that itself
17:47<TrueBrain>but okay .. I will write something down first, makes talking a bit easier, I hope :D
17:47*andythenorth thinks sleeping time
17:47<frosch123>if you want state between 2 gs, then go for messagepassing. no shared memory :)
17:47<@orudge>So, from January - November last year, we had a surplus for the year of around £45. After TrueBrain's post in December, we then had £412 of donations that month! Taking out the new OVH servers, that led to a 'profit' of £337 last year :)
17:47<frosch123>gs can send json to each other
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17:47<@orudge>Now, let's see what the first AWS bill looks like :|
17:48<frosch123>there is some draft for json passing between gs and newgrf somewhere
17:48<TrueBrain>orudge: haha :D Tnx for the update!!
17:48<frosch123> <- quite old
17:48<TrueBrain>frosch123: JSON parsing is nasty ... but yeah, it has to be an API of sorts
17:48<TrueBrain>no shared memory no :)
17:48<frosch123>we already have a json parser somewhere
17:49<frosch123>gs <-> admin port probably
17:50<@orudge>TrueBrain: Bank balance has increased overall in the past 4 years by just £102, which is fine really, as there's still a fair pile of money sitting there from previous years!
17:50<TrueBrain>slightly insane :)
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17:50<TrueBrain>okay, the bill more than halved indeed by having those 2 VPSes doing BaNaNaS
17:50<TrueBrain>current estimate is ~230 dollar this month
17:51<frosch123>we need weak $, strong £
17:51<@orudge>OK. Well, at that rate, we can fund AWS for a couple of years at any rate :)
17:51<TrueBrain>funny, EC2 instances now are the main cost
17:51<TrueBrain>I can get those down a bit
17:51<@orudge>well, not "at any rate", that's a confusing expression for me to use when I already said "at that rate" :D
17:51<@orudge>but yes
17:51<TrueBrain>owh, and Tax ended up on the first of Jan, which is a bit odd ..
17:52<@orudge>If funds look like they're running low at any point, then we can perhaps do a fundraiser, but I think we should be OK for a while yet
17:54<TrueBrain>yeah, and I will fiddle a bit with AWS to see what services I can reduce cost of
17:55<TrueBrain>as I now see for example we are over EBS quota .. that is most likely unintended :D
17:55<TrueBrain>we did 100k IO operations in the last 5 days :D
17:55<@orudge>[22:50:57] <frosch123> we need weak $, strong £ <-- it's looking a bit healthier these days, almost back to where it was pre-Brexshit
17:55<@orudge>Not quite as nice as when it was £1=$2 though
17:56<TrueBrain>500k DNS requests in 5 days, lolz
17:56<TrueBrain>people love those DNS queries
17:57<TrueBrain>but yeah, let's see how this month goes :)
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18:02<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8439: Feature: Make town bridge max length a function of its population
18:05<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8495: Feature: Prevent tunnels from being built under mines
18:05<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed pull request #8495: Feature: Prevent tunnels from being built under mines
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18:09<LordAro>hmm, i'm not sure my Ensure* functions are being called at all
18:09<LordAro>my print statements aren't doing anything, anyway
18:10<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8495: Feature: Prevent tunnels from being built under mines
18:12<TrueBrain>printf or DEBUG?
18:12<TrueBrain>for some reason I have a hard time seeing the first, the second does work fine :P
18:15<milek7>maybe we need ottd2
18:15<milek7>with multiple track layers :P
18:15<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] kiwitreekor opened issue #8506: Town builds unnecessary junctions on highway
18:15<milek7>(so more real bridges and tunnels)
18:15<TrueBrain>too bad I removed .. I always link a an mp4 I think SmatZ once made, when people say these things :)
18:16<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on pull request #8505: Feature: Allow converting track under trains when compatible with the new rail type
18:16<TrueBrain>lol @ "highway" PR .. for most of the time reading it, I was like: wtf is "highway" .. but I guess a NewGRF :D
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18:41<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on issue #8506: Town builds unnecessary junctions on highway
18:49<LordAro>TrueBrain: i use fprintf(stderr by default to avoid stdout weirdnesses :p
19:16<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] kiwitreekor commented on issue #8506: Town builds unnecessary junctions on highway
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19:31<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8505: Feature: Allow converting track under trains when compatible with the new rail type
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20:50<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/nml] GreyfurWolf opened issue #180: NML erroring out when compiling
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21:18<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #8506: Town builds unnecessary junctions on highway
21:45<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/nml] glx22 commented on issue #180: NML erroring out when compiling
22:17<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/nml] glx22 opened pull request #181: Fix #180: No proper error message was given, if an unreferenced Strin…
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23:35<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/team] Luis45ccs opened issue #122: [es_ES] Translator access request
23:38<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/team] Luis45ccs commented on issue #122: [es_ES] Translator access request
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---Logclosed Wed Jan 06 00:00:42 2021