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#openttd IRC Logs for 2021-01-07

---Logopened Thu Jan 07 00:00:44 2021
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02:01<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8507: Fix #7604: prevent houses to wander too far from town center when rebuilding https://git.io/JLNpN
02:01<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed issue #7604: Buildings "wander" north away from roads https://git.io/fjBBq
02:01<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8509: Fix #8068: always allow removal of tram track if that generates money https://git.io/JLARS
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02:01<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed issue #8068: Streetcar track removal fails when bank balance negative https://git.io/JvxRZ
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02:27<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #8511: Fix #8332: aborting group drag&drop could cause crashes with vehicle drag&drop https://git.io/JLAFv
02:27<TrueBrain>I like that I read a bug report, and I see below that a JGRPP commit to fix the problem :P
02:29<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8332: Null pointer dereference in group window when vehicle/group dragging https://git.io/JTrzT
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03:18<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #8512: Several mistakes with ending-year and extreme values https://git.io/JLANI
03:19<TrueBrain>funny how a really old bug got reintroduced :D ^^ :D
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03:24<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8512: Several mistakes with ending-year and extreme values https://git.io/JLANI
03:35<TrueBrain>right, 20 git blames later, to confirm some details .... :D
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03:36<TrueBrain>owh, finally, it is official, Biden won
03:36<TrueBrain>shocker
03:37<andythenorth>still counting, I'm watching it
03:37*andythenorth stayed up way tooooo late
03:37<TrueBrain>well, he cannot lose anymore
03:37<andythenorth>oof
03:37<TrueBrain>so ... they can do what-ever they like :P
03:40<andythenorth>so houses blog post then? :D
03:40<andythenorth>ha I was going to do a round-up kind of post after livestream, but I forgot
03:41<andythenorth>for all the places we announced livestream, guess which one we missed? :)
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03:46<TrueBrain>what a silly question
03:47<andythenorth>the silliest so far today?
03:47<TrueBrain>either you want to tell or you don't; but this is close to childish :P (I KNOW SOMETHING YOU DONT KNOW :P)
03:47<andythenorth>yeah website oopsie
03:47<TrueBrain>hmm .. wtf are "clearable watered object tiles"?
03:47<TrueBrain>deliberately, I did not post it on the website; that was not "forgotten", it was a choice not to :)
03:48<andythenorth>ok, let's never mention it again
03:48<TrueBrain>:D
03:48<TrueBrain>for something you do a first time, you want to get attention of a certain group of people .. readers of our news I did not consider one of those :)
03:48<andythenorth>where is this water silly question?
03:48<TrueBrain>I am reading a PR that says "clearable watered object tiles" .. no mention what they are, how to get those, etc
03:49<TrueBrain>so clearly it must be something that is well known to everyone
03:49<TrueBrain>I don't know what it is :D
03:51<andythenorth>me neither, but I know very little
03:51<TrueBrain>wtf is going on with the OpenTTD Discord ... now they are also starring cats ... omg ...
03:51<andythenorth>I am enjoying it, but very confused
03:51<andythenorth>is cat?
03:51<reldred>There's a discord? Of course there's a discord.
03:51*andythenorth new convert to discord
03:51<andythenorth>pretty rad
03:52<TrueBrain>so, how to test this code without know wtf it is about ... tempted to just remove it
03:52<reldred>yeah discord's rad til discord starts zealously overpolicing communities.
03:52<andythenorth>wat gamers say bad things?
03:52*andythenorth shocked
03:52<TrueBrain>lol, you can build a canel on a river .. nothing changes, but it does cost you money :D
03:53<reldred>Nah, there's been a few other things that have happened.
03:53<reldred>An off grid living discord got nuked and all its members banned
03:53<andythenorth>well now they're off-grid
03:53<reldred>Irony of people 'off grid' and also on the internet is not entirely lost on me however >:D
03:53<andythenorth>so must be objective achieved no?
03:53<reldred>lel
03:54<TrueBrain>"Docks cannot be placed on rapids"
03:54<TrueBrain>wtf are rapids?
03:55<reldred>Nah I just get concerned when I hear folks like the mozilla foundation call out decentralized platforms as being the biggest danger to society. I know they're thinking about Gab and Parler but their rhetoric also covers any other private forum, IRC, etc.
03:55<reldred>Like, I like IRC, I like boards like tt-forums.
03:55<reldred>And I'm not overly fan of organisations shoe-horning everyone onto centralised platforms so they can nanny us.
03:55<reldred>s/fan/fond/
03:56<reldred>TrueBrain: maybe they're referring to rivers? sloped rivers?
03:56<TrueBrain>it appears so
03:56<TrueBrain>tnx
03:57<andythenorth>TrueBrain where even is this PR? I did search github for 'watered' and crap
03:57<TrueBrain>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7947
03:58<TrueBrain>second commit
03:58<TrueBrain>I have no clue what it does, why it is there, or what it is doing ...
03:58<andythenorth>oh I step away sorry, that's another whackamole PR
03:58<andythenorth>all of these just move the issues around
03:58<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #7947: Fix #7945: Add cost of clearing the sloped tile when placing a dock https://git.io/JvTH0
03:58<andythenorth>it's shuffling the deck, but to what result?
03:59<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7947: Fix #7945: Add cost of clearing the sloped tile when placing a dock https://git.io/JLAxI
03:59<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #7947: Fix #7945: Add cost of clearing the sloped tile when placing a dock https://git.io/JLAxL
03:59<TrueBrain>I just removed the commit, and kept the one solving a bug
04:03<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8340: Draft: Feature: Create Universal (x86_64 + Apple Silicon) build on macOS https://git.io/JLAx8
04:11<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8121: Cannot rebuild just buildozed dock https://git.io/JfnIF
04:11<TrueBrain>bit confused by ^^; if anyone knows more about docks, would love to get some feedback :)
04:17<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8274: Feature: option to auto remove signals when in the way during rail co… https://git.io/JJsQJ
04:18<andythenorth>oof docks
04:19<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8006: Codechange: Increase scrollbar length limit to UINT_MAX and make their length properly unsigned https://git.io/JLApS
04:20<TrueBrain>dock placement is super odd
04:20<TrueBrain>it checks more than it is big, but it doesn't claim the 3rd tile in any shape or form
04:22<andythenorth>I have never noticed a problem and I build a lot of docks
04:22<andythenorth>doesn't mean there aren't any :)
04:22<andythenorth>ok coffee must happen, 5 hours sleep wasn't enough
04:23<TrueBrain>well, I added screenshots of fun moments with docks I had :D
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04:24<andythenorth>there was a very big effort to prevent docks blocking ship routes
04:24<andythenorth>I kind of zoned out about it
04:25<andythenorth>oh I closed it https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6927
04:26<TrueBrain>I read one word and closed the tab
04:26<TrueBrain>how evil
04:26<andythenorth>some truebrain dude had an opinion here about docks https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6926#pullrequestreview-220627935
04:26<andythenorth>anyway this release list is looking nice :)
04:27<andythenorth>grats etc
04:28<TrueBrain>oef, I honestly suppressed any knowledge of those comments :P
04:29<andythenorth>I really feel I did enough reading about docks
04:29*andythenorth nearly wrote dicks, let's not eh
04:29<TrueBrain>well, only 3 (I think?) bugs left and 2 PRs .. the rest either just needs a PR review/merge, or people are working on it real hard :)
04:29<TrueBrain>docks can be such dicks
04:29<andythenorth>GS docks
04:29<andythenorth>docks not being newgrf-able or flat is much more interesting than all these weird cases
04:29<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] orudge commented on pull request #8340: Draft: Feature: Create Universal (x86_64 + Apple Silicon) build on macOS https://git.io/JLAhO
04:30<andythenorth>like...'where can I build this dock?' should be a newgrf author question, like industries
04:30<andythenorth>all this fucking around in vanilla client over trivia :)
04:31<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8511: Fix #8332: aborting group drag&drop could cause crashes with vehicle drag&drop https://git.io/JLAhZ
04:32<LordAro>TrueBrain: your other 2 look reasonably sane, but i need some actual time to think about them first :)
04:32<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8511: Fix #8332: aborting group drag&drop could cause crashes with vehicle drag&drop https://git.io/JLAFv
04:32<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed issue #8332: Null pointer dereference in group window when vehicle/group dragging https://git.io/JTrzT
04:32<TrueBrain>LordAro: I can fully understand that :D
04:32<TrueBrain>especially the bridge one, it is a brain-breaker
04:33*LordAro does some actual work
04:33<TrueBrain>no rush, I appreciate the reviews :)
04:33<LordAro>omg, 99 issues
04:33<TrueBrain>could be 2 less :P :P :P :P
04:33<TrueBrain>ghehehehe :D
04:35<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #7947: Fix #7945: Add cost of clearing the sloped tile when placing a dock https://git.io/JvTH0
04:35<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed issue #7945: Building docks does not account the cost of clearing the sloped tile https://git.io/JvT9H
04:35<TrueBrain>98!
04:37<TrueBrain>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/6337 <- I wonder how to fix this cleanly .. hmm
04:38<andythenorth>tropic TGP is ~broken for generating rainforests in most cases, I'll look if there's an issue
04:38<andythenorth>arctic might just be solved by snowline setting?
04:40<andythenorth>I did try to fix TGP for tropic but le oof https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7340
04:41<andythenorth>samu tried to fix snowline, but looks like an inappropriate solution https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7874
04:42<TrueBrain>so somewhere with the more-heights-stuff, 2 climates broke
04:42<TrueBrain>nice :D
04:43<TrueBrain>looking at artic, both map generators are broken
04:43<TrueBrain>even with Hilly it doesn't go high enough
04:44<TrueBrain>it needs highest setting before it reaches snow :)
04:44<andythenorth>I stopped playing Tropic because the maps are just flat
04:44<andythenorth>some solutions got proposed, e.g. just use heightmaps etc
04:44<andythenorth>is there a Better Way?
04:44<TrueBrain>what is flat for Temperate, should be hilly for Tropic, I guess :D
04:45<TrueBrain>the thing that simply annoys me, that if you are a new player and click Artic, you get an error a forest could not be planted
04:45<TrueBrain>that gives you 0 context what the impact is of that
04:45<TrueBrain>it is just bad defaults, basically
04:46*andythenorth reading https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/7872
04:46<Eddi|zuHause>tropic rainforests might be easier if there were a way to generate good rivers :p
04:47<andythenorth>oh 7 tickets about it Samu made a list :)
04:47<andythenorth>oh dear
04:47<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause $somebody had a patch
04:47<andythenorth>I even tested it
04:47<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, but it got out of hand...
04:47<andythenorth>things do
04:47<Eddi|zuHause>we need river tiles on arbitrary slopes
04:48<reldred>I've been doing a lot of screwing around with heightmaps lately and a couple of things I thought of; ability to control the height at which rainforest kicks in, ability to control the distance from river/ocean before desert kicks in.
04:48<Eddi|zuHause>more settings! :p
04:48<reldred>I mean, doesn't help out newbie players. Sensible defaults would be good.
04:49<TrueBrain>I do not remember that maps were this flat .. is that the new height that causes it?
04:49<TrueBrain>yeah, it is
04:49<TrueBrain>did someone forget to scale something ?
04:49<andythenorth>I will look
04:49<andythenorth>it has been diagnosed before by multiple people
04:50<Eddi|zuHause>a combination of weird TGP special cases, the later added variety curves, and the new heightlevels
04:50<TrueBrain>when I change it back to 15 or so, it is much more what I remember :)
04:50<reldred>Yeah, max height 255, alpinist, no variety distrib, maps are super flat.
04:50<reldred>that was 256x1024, doing a 2048x2048 now
04:51<Eddi|zuHause>iirc the original TGP was doing some extra adjustments on arctic/tropic that might now work against each other
04:51<reldred>Yeah that was more of the same. Tallest mountain I found was height level 48
04:51<andythenorth>so MHL was 2014
04:51<andythenorth>iirc there is some clamp somewhere in variety curves that flattens the map
04:51<andythenorth>but eh, hazy memory
04:51<reldred>Found a mountain @ 58, but no rainforests are generating on them.
04:51<Eddi|zuHause>but original TGP is some very odd code quality, so everyone who tried to understand it got lost
04:52<Eddi|zuHause>that includes me and PeterN
04:52<TrueBrain>took me weeks to take TGP as it was presented to a mergeable state :P
04:52<andythenorth>specific to tropic https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7340/files#diff-8463692a54e306b04c06accf493308970b084cc1a2d09c9d93160ba0dc283924
04:52<Eddi|zuHause>who was TGP author? RichK?
04:53<andythenorth> * Half of tiles should be at lowest (0..25%) heights */ sticks out to me as offending
04:53<TrueBrain>it was a dude that put his name in every patch ... cannot remember who, sadly
04:53<andythenorth>like...if you pull half the tiles down and have large flat areas
04:53<reldred>God I remember when TGP first hit.
04:53<TrueBrain>as in, TGP was littered with comments naming the person who wrote it :P
04:53<andythenorth>that anchors the entire map
04:53<reldred>Seemed god damn magical back in the day I gotta admit
04:53<andythenorth>it's better than original
04:54<TrueBrain>OpenTTD revormed with TGP hitting master :)
04:54<Eddi|zuHause>it does its job pretty good, but it's not extendable
04:54<reldred>Everything was very square in the original map gen
04:54<TrueBrain>it was when some people "in power" lost power, and the dynamic of OpenTTD changed drasticly :)
04:54<TrueBrain>it was when I created a "devs-only" channel :P
04:54<TrueBrain>fun times :D
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04:55<TrueBrain>before the game just froze when generating maps
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04:55<TrueBrain>after that you got this nice dialog showing progress
04:55<andythenorth>since variety distribution was added I fail to understand how the settings relate to result
04:55<TrueBrain>damn, that was technically very tricky to pull off
04:55<andythenorth>eddi has to explain it to me every time
04:55<andythenorth>but eh, let's stick to today's PR
04:55<reldred>Ummm, I know turning variety distribution up results in smoother map and down results in crunchier map.
04:56<reldred>crunchy maps = good as far as I'm concerned.
04:56<andythenorth>it also affects whether you get hills or not
04:56<Eddi|zuHause>iirc PeterN was about to rip out the variety distribution again, and reimplement with perlin noise
04:56<TrueBrain>well, what-ever we do, the current defaults are just shitty
04:56<Eddi|zuHause>but the perlin noise implementation in TGP was... not extendable
04:56<TrueBrain>even for temperate ..
04:57<TrueBrain>I btw never really understood why we needed more height-levels :P
04:57<TrueBrain>slopes aren't exactly fun to deal with :P
04:57<reldred>Past 255? I don't see any point til we can get RCT style cliffs.
04:57<TrueBrain>past 15
04:57<reldred>Oh
04:57<Eddi|zuHause>32 or 48 works pretty well
04:58<reldred>I use past 15 religiously.
04:58<Eddi|zuHause>beyond that is... unpractical
04:58<TrueBrain>the default is 30, so I imagine :P
04:58<TrueBrain>yeah, okay, I can see 48 .. just not 255 :D
04:58<Eddi|zuHause>well, 255 was the next logical step on a technical level.
04:59<reldred>Sometimes depends on the heightmap too. I generally use 63/127. Sometimes 255. Whatever I need to get the terrain I want out of the heightmap I'm using.
04:59<reldred>Currently using a lot of Cpt.K's heightmaps.
04:59<Timberwolf>I like using ~32 on a large and relatively sparse map.
05:00<Timberwolf>The aim is to get 1 or 2 mountains which are impassable and have to be worked around.
05:00<TrueBrain>I guess none of those maps are 256x256 :D
05:00<reldred>I like mountain ranges that *are* unpractical, I like it to be an obstacle I have to work around. Otherwise it may as well be flat terrain if it's not a challenge.
05:00<reldred>I usually use 1:4 or 1:2 ratio maps
05:00<reldred>And 5x train cargo weight modifier
05:01<andythenorth>it's gonna be big maps?
05:01<Eddi|zuHause>there's this weird stretching on 1:4 maps
05:01<andythenorth>I never see any high heights, I play 256x512 or less
05:01<andythenorth>but eh
05:01<Eddi|zuHause>all the mountains are squished along the longer map edge
05:02<reldred>CptK's Broad Channel, at 256x1024, max height 255.
05:02<reldred>Punitive.
05:02<reldred>Horrible.
05:02<reldred>My favorite <3
05:02<TrueBrain>right, so after TGP has done its Perlin Noise, it get a MaxHeight depending on map size, and clamps everything between 0 and that value
05:03<andythenorth>this sounds identical to what peter found
05:03<andythenorth>hurrha
05:03<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, and there's some weird scaling applied, that flattens mountain tops
05:03<Eddi|zuHause>and other weird scalings on tropic and arctic
05:03<TrueBrain>it clamps .. no scaling :P
05:03<Eddi|zuHause>i tried to work through TGP multiple times
05:03<TrueBrain>on flat maps at 1kx1k, highest peak should be 14 high
05:04<TrueBrain>snow is at 15
05:04<Eddi|zuHause>there was an issue where it wouldn't ever generate height 15
05:04<TrueBrain>I can see this being an issue :D
05:04<Eddi|zuHause>back when 15 was max
05:05<TrueBrain>code is just weird too :D First it normalizes towards the max-height, next it clamps it again to max-height
05:05<TrueBrain>pro-move :D
05:05<Eddi|zuHause>i think PeterN came to the conclusion that it needs a complete rewrite, then he disappeared again
05:06<LordAro>and everyone was sad
05:06<TrueBrain>I simply disagree with TGPGetMaxHeight having hard-coded "max-height" values
05:06<TrueBrain>that works against what I expected it to do
05:06<andythenorth>LordAro got "everyone was sad" into one nice line here https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/6337#issuecomment-476414106
05:07<TrueBrain>as in, I expected that higher height-levels would create higher mountains
05:07<TrueBrain>but it does not
05:07<andythenorth>it does not
05:07<TrueBrain>higher max-height-levels just allows fr them, but that is it
05:07<andythenorth>you have to build your own
05:08<LordAro>andythenorth: hehe
05:08<TrueBrain>is it just me, or should is just scale with the max-height-level?
05:08<LordAro>TrueBrain: try it!
05:08<andythenorth>https://images.app.goo.gl/MsWut3HTWw6wyRee7
05:09<reldred>Link the tropic rainforest height to the same UI snowlevel height while you're at it? Then rename the UI widget in the map generation window to reflect it?
05:09<TrueBrain>reldred: no
05:09<TrueBrain>:D
05:09<reldred>:'(
05:09<reldred>At the moment it just greys out.
05:10<TrueBrain>make a PR for it! :)
05:10<reldred>D:
05:10<reldred>please don't make me program
05:11<TrueBrain>please don't make me fix 10 bugs at once :P
05:11<reldred>Fair cop
05:11<reldred>I can respect that. I'm still putting off writing so many grf's...
05:12<reldred>I'm not sure I can withstand the psychic damage of creating any new grf's. Updating/fixing old ones was bad enough.
05:13<Eddi|zuHause><TrueBrain> is it just me, or should is just scale with the max-height-level? <-- i feel like we probably discussed that when merging more heightlevels. might want to look that up :)
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05:13<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: you suggest I go read backlogs of 10 years ago? :D
05:18<TrueBrain>so we have 2 mechanisms that are working against each other: on one hand we say: this is the max height, and here is the snow level. On the other hand we have: for small maps, we shouldn't make mountains too high
05:18<TrueBrain>that is pretty much a contradictory on its own :)
05:19<reldred>Sensible defaults first, once the users have figured out what they're doing beyond defaults open it up to their preference. I mean I like stupid mountains even on tiny maps. Some people like biiiig wide open flat maps.
05:22<TrueBrain>okay ... how does tropical decide where to put the desert line .. lets find the piece of code for that :D
05:23<reldred>From what I can tell its two/three tiles out from any river, and five/six tiles out from any ocean.
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05:23<reldred>Until some arbitrary height that's calculated from the maxheight.
05:24<TrueBrain>1/4th of the max height
05:24<reldred>Makes sense.
05:24<TrueBrain>so for one we have a configurable snow-height, for the other we have a 1/4th height
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05:26<Eddi|zuHause>there's also some weird scaling for newgrf-defined snow height
05:27<Eddi|zuHause>i feel like what would be more sensible is a "fraction of map area that is desert"
05:27<Eddi|zuHause>instead of defining it by height
05:28<Eddi|zuHause>which might make it behave more like sea level
05:28<TrueBrain>that doesn't solve the current problem; a flat map would than either be full desert or full tropical ;)
05:28<TrueBrain>there has to be a reasonable amount of height difference in those maps
05:29<TrueBrain>flat simply doesn't make any sense, from a gameplay perspective
05:29<Eddi|zuHause>but that's true for sea level as well
05:29<Eddi|zuHause>it jumps from 5% to 80% water
05:30<TrueBrain>aren't both the same problem?
05:30<Eddi|zuHause>pretty much
05:31<Eddi|zuHause>you would need fractional heightlevels to find a more accurate line to split
05:31<TrueBrain>hmm .. this result looks a lot better .. I just add the snow-line-height to the max-allowed-tgp level for artic
05:31<TrueBrain>this means very flat is .. not flat
05:32<Eddi|zuHause>which perlin noise could provide
05:32<TrueBrain>but has like 5% snow
05:32<Eddi|zuHause>but you need to do that in an intermediate step which TGP doesn't expose
05:32<TrueBrain>it is a cheesy solution, but it seems to work
05:32<TrueBrain>I am not looking into writing another map generator :) I am looking into how to fix defaults to be less ... weird
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05:38<TrueBrain>snow-line-height is arctic only, not?
05:40<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/bananas-api] erenes opened pull request #79: downgraded chardet to 3.0.4 to fix compatibility issue with aiohttp, … https://git.io/JLxJJ
05:44<TrueBrain>lol @ max-height table .. it used to make sense, as in, that the steps were always bigger than the step before
05:44<TrueBrain>but with this new table, it is all over the place
05:45<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/bananas-api] erenes updated pull request #79: Revert chardet to 3.0.4 to fix compatibility issue with aiohttp, … https://git.io/JLxJJ
05:47<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: that's what you get when people try to fix issues on a surface level
05:48<TrueBrain>yeah, it is all a bit out of whack now
05:48<Eddi|zuHause>that's how PeterN came to his conclusion that it needs a rewrite
05:49<TrueBrain>sadly, that is a conclusion we can draw from many bugs we have :P
05:49<TrueBrain>doesn't really solve the here and now :D
05:49<TrueBrain>tropic is funny, even on Alpinist there are almost no mountains
05:49<TrueBrain>guess that makes some-what sense on some level
05:50<Eddi|zuHause>variety distribution tends to eliminate a lot of mountains
05:54<andythenorth>the PR I put in for tropic does improve the current state
05:54<andythenorth>but I would say that eh :)
05:56<andythenorth>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7340
05:56<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain commented on pull request #79: Revert chardet to 3.0.4 to fix compatibility issue with aiohttp, … https://git.io/JLxUt
05:56<TrueBrain>you keep linking your own PR
05:56<TrueBrain>is there something you want to tell us? :)
05:57<andythenorth>dunno
05:57<andythenorth>it's not like I did anything clever, I just reduced the fragmentation
05:57<andythenorth>swapped "this clearly doesn't work" for "this might be better and is just reusing existing thing"
05:58<andythenorth>I don't think it's a permanent solution :)
06:08<TrueBrain>but it doesn't solve the problem of default settings ;)
06:08<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #8513: Fix: for arctic and tropic, make sure we have at least a few hills https://git.io/JLxTc
06:09<TrueBrain>this does ^^, but it is a stopgap solution, and a compromise between all the bad things :P
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06:12<TrueBrain>let's build a preview so people can experiment a bit
06:13<andythenorth>+1
06:13<TrueBrain>but the more you do, the more issues you notice :D
06:13<andythenorth>I was about to pull it, but wasm ftw
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06:20<TrueBrain>if a PR takes that many words to explain, you know there is something else wrong :P :D
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06:52*andythenorth considers newgrf
06:52<TrueBrain>https://preview.openttd.org/pr8513/ in case you want to give it a test-run :)
06:54*andythenorth wonders how to scroll minimap
06:54<TrueBrain>you will have to set the snow-line-height to 10 yourself if you ever opened any preview btw :)
06:54<andythenorth>I should read the manual
06:55<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: that once again proves what an unmaintainable mess TGP has become
06:56<TrueBrain>you just repeating words now Eddi|zuHause :)
06:56<Eddi|zuHause>some words are worth repeating :p
06:57<andythenorth>does player have to fund lumber mills?
06:57<andythenorth>I'm not getting any
06:57<andythenorth>wiki doesn't say
06:57<andythenorth>https://wiki.openttd.org/en/Manual/Base%20Set/Industries/Lumber%20Mill
06:57<andythenorth>oh it does
06:57<andythenorth>ok that's fine
06:57<TrueBrain>"Lumber mills are a special industry that are not generated automatically but can only be funded by the player." :)
06:58<andythenorth>that will be the clue yes
06:58<andythenorth>if only someone had read it
06:58<TrueBrain>:D
06:58<TrueBrain>enable text-to-speech, that will make the wiki say it :D
06:58<andythenorth>maps seem 'fine'
06:58<andythenorth>like...nothing is broken
06:58<andythenorth>forests are getting built
06:58<andythenorth>I only tried 256x256 default
06:58<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think i've ever played tropic long enough to fund one
06:58<TrueBrain>that was the aim :) It is far from perfect, but it also doesn't break anything :P
06:59<TrueBrain>the bigger the map, the better it gets, honestly
06:59<TrueBrain>on 64x64, nothing works :P
07:00<TrueBrain>why did I make the minimal size 64 again? Most have been high :P
07:00<TrueBrain>128x128 already looks good, that surprises me
07:00<andythenorth>no FF, I don't want to kill the script :P
07:00<andythenorth>it's just map gen
07:00<Eddi|zuHause>on very flat maps you could move the baseline to just around the snowline, at the cost of having no sea level tiles
07:01<TrueBrain>I see more possibilities to improve it, but we already agree'd someone should just rewrite it :D
07:03<TrueBrain>seeing 64x64 maps makes me want to revive head-to-head branch .. that was fun, 4 players on their own 64x64 map (on a single server), trying to make as much money as they could in a short amount of time :D
07:04<andythenorth>you're not tempted to downstream the 16k x 16k patch?
07:05<TrueBrain>none
07:05<TrueBrain>initial I did want to allow a max-size, as in, that you could have 16k by 256, for example
07:05<TrueBrain>but that is complicated to show in an UI
07:06<andythenorth>confirmed 64x64 is a sad time for arctic and tropic
07:06<andythenorth>on defaults
07:06<TrueBrain>but a 16k x 16k map is just silly for a 1-thread game
07:06<andythenorth>does the 64x64 case matter really?
07:06<TrueBrain>nope
07:06<TrueBrain>always have been broken
07:06<TrueBrain>always will be broken
07:07<andythenorth>ok, we need someone more exhaustive than me if we want valid tests :P
07:08<andythenorth>but wfm
07:09<TrueBrain>maybe reldred wants to take a look too :)
07:10<reldred>What am I doing?
07:12<TrueBrain>testing the map-generator fixes in https://preview.openttd.org/pr8513/ :P
07:12<TrueBrain>arctic and tropics
07:13<andythenorth>where is samu?
07:13<andythenorth>le oof
07:19<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8048: Path is not released, after it was reserved through another train causing a crash https://git.io/JvQtG
07:21<TrueBrain>how to reproduce an issue you only have a mp4 off .. hmm
07:21<andythenorth>did I do it?
07:21<TrueBrain>random question; no clue how to answer :)
07:21<TrueBrain>did you reproduce it? I dunno
07:21<TrueBrain>did you make an mp4? I dunno
07:21<TrueBrain>did you have lunch? I dunno
07:21<TrueBrain>:D
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07:28<TrueBrain>return RandomRange(pass + 1); // Randomise deceased passengers.
07:28<TrueBrain>haha, I did not know it was randomized
07:28<TrueBrain>lol
07:28<TrueBrain>just a full random :)
07:32<andythenorth>and a driver?
07:32<TrueBrain>+ 1 is I think to change 0..N) to 1..N]
07:33<Timberwolf>newgrf variable for "vehicle safety" pls. ;)
07:33<TrueBrain>haha :D
07:33<TrueBrain>not a bad idea honestly :P
07:34<reldred>As far as sensible defaults go arctic is looking good TrueBrain, Tropic I need to gen a few more and see how they look
07:34<TrueBrain>if you don't mind, would love the feedback :)
07:34<TrueBrain>tnx!
07:34<reldred>Okay, 2nd map on Temperate quite a bit more promising
07:34<reldred>Tropic, not temperate damnit
07:34<reldred>lol
07:35<reldred>So yeah, I think for default daisies you're looking pretty good now, anyone coming from or who has memories of TTD would be satisfied with those compared to previously.
07:35<reldred>Now let's abuse it and see what happens >:D
07:35<TrueBrain>take it to the limit! :D
07:39<reldred>Okay, looks good on defaults, tropical however still has problems where the max mountain height never gets within an inch of max map height which then means no tropics again.
07:39<reldred>Look, definitely a massive improvement on default settings for a new player.
07:41<reldred>Being able to customise the tropics height level like you can the snow level would fix that I think and be pretty intuitive to anyone who's generated a few arctic maps
07:43<LordAro>TrueBrain: i'm 90% certain the +1 is to include the driver
07:43<TrueBrain>LordAro: I am 90% certain it is not, as train_cmd adds 2 more, of which I assume are the 2 drivers :D
07:43<LordAro>hrm
07:43<andythenorth>Timberwolf expose vehicle safety via 'variants' spec :P
07:43<LordAro>fine::p
07:43<TrueBrain> pass += 2; // driver
07:43<TrueBrain>:D
07:43<andythenorth>player can choose 'overspeed' or not
07:43<andythenorth>is variants spec yet?
07:44<TrueBrain>reldred: indeed, in extremes tropics still don't work .. but I leave that for someone else to fix I think :D Trying to get 1.11 ready :P
07:44<TrueBrain>something something rabbit hole :)
07:44<andythenorth>little ups
07:45<TrueBrain>LordAro: on the other hand, my 0..N) -> 1..N] is bullshit, as the +1 is inside the ()
07:45<TrueBrain>so no clue what the + 1 is for ...
07:45<TrueBrain>or trains have 3 drivers
07:45<TrueBrain>that works :P
07:46<Timberwolf>andythenorth: Red ones are faster but more dangerous?
07:46<andythenorth>sounds like liveries
07:46<andythenorth>and a recurring joke
07:47<andythenorth>we can already do that with company colours :P
07:47<andythenorth>vehicle variants demanded https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=88255
07:47*andythenorth wonders what's wrong with the 'many IDs' route
07:48<andythenorth>"it's too many clicks" say the players who want to double-click to build a vehicle, click to open a menu, click to open a tab, double click to make a choice, click to another tab, double-click another choice, click to another tab, double-click another choice, then close the window
07:49<andythenorth>[I elided the scrolling clicks]
07:50*andythenorth fails to provide context again, let's have more coffee and be a better person (
07:50<reldred>TrueBrain: Probably the only other suggestion I'd have is to make map borders: random the default. It's still in the spirit of TTD but really flexes that OpenTTD has *more to offer*
07:51<reldred>Esp. with the terra genesis map generator anyway
07:52<TrueBrain>I think we need someone to sit down and work out how map generator v3 should look and work :)
07:52<TrueBrain>including all the bits and pieces I read today of things that should/could be improved :)
07:53<andythenorth>peter concluded just use heightmaps from external landscape generators
07:53<andythenorth>like world machine etc
07:53<andythenorth>like...just ship a lot of pngs
07:53<andythenorth>random choice
07:53<TrueBrain>awh, my URLs to my mapgens no longer work
07:53<TrueBrain>SAD
07:53<TrueBrain>I once got to the point you could enter coordinates, and it would generate an ingame map for you based no the real world situation
07:53<TrueBrain>that was fun :D
07:53<reldred>You'd really need to work in some sort of preview
07:54<TrueBrain>back then, processing 20GB of map data ...was a lot of data .. now it is laughable :P
07:54<reldred>That's the big problem with heightmaps atm
07:54<TrueBrain>reldred: nobody made a (simple) tool for that, like a webpage or anything?
07:54<reldred>¯\_(ツ)_/¯
07:55<andythenorth>wasm P
07:55<andythenorth>GHA wasm screenshots, per frosch's idea
07:55<TrueBrain>sometimes I am surprised people didn't fix some simple stuff, but enormous complex shit people have tools for :D
07:55<TrueBrain>andythenorth: you say words; no clue what they mean :P
07:55<TrueBrain>sorry :)
07:56<andythenorth>for each heightmap on bananas, load it into a wasm preview, then generate a screenshot, and save it to bananaanaas
07:57<andythenorth>I mean...it doesn't have to be wasm probably, that was just what frosch voiced an idea for
07:57<TrueBrain>that can be done with anything, but yes :)
07:57<TrueBrain>screenshots in general of content would be nice :)
08:06*andythenorth dares to write some nml
08:06<andythenorth>randomised ship colours experiment
08:06<reldred>I reckon I'm gonna have a crack at m4nfo next
08:06<reldred>just to be spicy
08:06<reldred>just to be a little different
08:07<reldred>and because I kinda feel bad that michael blunck has been trying to convince me to use it now for at least half a decade or more.
08:07<andythenorth>it is picking up quite a bit of traction now
08:07<andythenorth>due to JGR and the extended newgrf spec
08:08<reldred>The JGR Cinematic Universe?
08:08<andythenorth>I can't use m4nfo, I've had too many unpleasant interactions with MB
08:08<andythenorth>I did consider switching
08:08<reldred>Eh, I've never really had a problem with michael
08:09<reldred>and oh boy, I've had a lot of problems with a lot of people in the ttd community over the years
08:09<reldred>I mean I was dead set against bananas for the longest time, didn't help that someone uploaded a bunch of my stuff without my permission.
08:10<andythenorth>people's gonna people
08:10<andythenorth>etc
08:11<reldred>well, been in this community sixteen years, I joined when I was 15/16.
08:11<TrueBrain>lol .. so we broke AIs in 1.9, and didn't add the compatibility layer for it? Sad ...
08:11<reldred>Road building?
08:12<TrueBrain>CreateGroups got a parameter added
08:12<TrueBrain>but I don't see compatibility code for it :D
08:12<TrueBrain>that is not very nice
08:14<TrueBrain>owh, wait, nevermind
08:14<TrueBrain>I was looking at this the inverted way
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08:15<TrueBrain>yeah, the bug was in my setup :D oops :)
08:16<TrueBrain>can't believe I have to wait 50 ingame years to possibly reproduce a bug ...
08:17<LinuxUser>Hi everyone, hoping for a bit of install advice please. I'm running Lunix Mint on an old laptop and I wanted to install OpenTTD. I see it's available in the Software Manager but it's not the latest version (currently 1.7.1). Once installed, can you update the game from within, or should I install the latest from the OpenTTD webpage?
08:18<TrueBrain>OpenTTD does (currently) not support self-updating
08:18<TrueBrain>additionally, distributing Linux binaries is really difficult over all the different flavours (with different library-versions)
08:18<TrueBrain>so we don't have a version for Mint
08:18<TrueBrain>you either have to compile it yourself (ugh), or hope one of the debian variants "just works"
08:19<TrueBrain>but also, might be good to ask Mint maintainers why they are 3 years behind :D
08:20<LinuxUser>Ah, ok. I'm a Linux 'newbie' and thanks to the lockdown I can't access my Win10 laptop. I struggle installing stuff let alone compiling! :)
08:20<TrueBrain>well, despite 1.10.3 being better, of course, 1.7.1 isn't that bad either :)
08:20<reldred>Mint is just Ubuntu, if there's ubuntu packages they'll work on Mint.
08:20<TrueBrain>just joining multiplayer will be difficult
08:20<TrueBrain>reldred: we have 4 versions of Ubuntu .. there is no "just" when it comes to Linux :)
08:21<TrueBrain>but yeah, you can try :)
08:21<TrueBrain>https://www.openttd.org/downloads/openttd-releases/latest.html, select "Linux", pick one you like most, and hope for the best :)
08:21<reldred>Yeah, obvs. you want to go for the version your version of mint is based off.
08:21<LinuxUser>Excellent, I'll see what Ubuntu one isa available. As you say worth a try :)
08:22<reldred>What version of mint you running?
08:22<LinuxUser>32-bit - let me check the version number one sec
08:23<andythenorth>hmm HTH do I use random_bits in nml?
08:23<TrueBrain>45341235473452
08:23<TrueBrain>pick one :)
08:23<TrueBrain>:D :P
08:23<TrueBrain>sorry :P
08:23<LinuxUser>19.3 (Tricia)
08:23<andythenorth>maybe I'll just pick them out with some hex
08:23<andythenorth>I have NFI
08:24<reldred>Probably forked off Bionic then if it's 32bit. Try the Ubuntu Bionic 32bit LinuxUser
08:24<andythenorth>maybe getbits is my friend
08:24<LinuxUser>Thanks reldred I'll look it up
08:25<reldred>And yessss, I was right. Package base for all Mint 19.x is Ubuntu Bionic.
08:25<reldred>https://www.linuxmint.com/download_all.php
08:25<reldred>Mint 20 moved to Ubuntu Focal and probably dropped 32bit support like Ubuntu did.
08:26<TrueBrain>1972, and the game is already slowing down .. ugh .. 30 more years to fast-forward :P
08:26<reldred>Which explains why you'd still be on Mint 19 then.
08:26<LinuxUser>Linux Ubuntu Bionic 18.04 (i386, 32 bit) - Found it :)
08:26<reldred>Bingo bango bongo
08:26<reldred>good luck have fun
08:27<LinuxUser>Thanks for all your help guys! Have a good one!!
08:27<TrueBrain>enjoy the game :)
08:27<LinuxUser>Cheers!
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08:29<andythenorth>10k nml lines of recolour sprites
08:29<andythenorth>probably fine, right?
08:30<reldred>wcgw?
08:30<reldred>alas I must retreat to the smaller internet
08:30<andythenorth>it's more portable
08:31<Eddi|zuHause>same procedure as last year?
08:33<reldred>Gotta admit I’m really liking cloudirc. Irc on the mobile even with bouncers was always a pain in the ass
08:33<Samu>TrueBrain, https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7947#issuecomment-755980482 you're mistaken, 2nd commit was "Change: Allow to build dock on clearable watered object tiles", it was described
08:33<Samu>now it's gone because you removed it
08:36<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8048: Path is not released, after it was reserved through another train causing a crash https://git.io/JvQtG
08:36<Samu>here's a history before the force push https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/commit/42c9a11c0b99d2edbe8928dbaf7005e602178ac1
08:36<andythenorth>but why was it there?
08:36<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed issue #8048: Path is not released, after it was reserved through another train causing a crash https://git.io/JvQtG
08:37<TrueBrain>Samu: so you consider that a description? Boy .... you and I live in very different worlds
08:37<TrueBrain>I especially appreciated you sneaking that into a PR claiming to fix a completely different problem
08:37<TrueBrain>that really helps .. /s ;)
08:37<Samu>they suggested me to do like that
08:38<TrueBrain>because you already sneaked it into a single commit
08:38<TrueBrain>which was worse :P
08:38<TrueBrain>pretty sure they were as confused then as I was now :)
08:38<TrueBrain>you make it so difficult for us to review any of your PRs
08:38<TrueBrain>it takes like 10 times more time than any other PR
08:39<TrueBrain>often they contain random unrelated changes, things you didn't explain, things that have no relation to what you explain, etc
08:39<TrueBrain>but we have told you this so many times now .... :)
08:39<Samu>i thought it was related, it was about fixing costs for building docks
08:40<TrueBrain>so a builder comes to your house to fix a window. He also noticed your toilet has a piece chipped off, so he removes the toilet
08:40<TrueBrain>it was related
08:41<TrueBrain>make PRs do 1 thing, and make them do it well. Document them well, test them well, be proud of the PR. Don't make PR do 10 things, have poor documentation, or have them only tested for your very specific use-case
08:43<TrueBrain>as really, how "fixing cost" relates to "being able to build", is not something I can comprehend ..
08:44<TrueBrain>it is very easy to make 20 shitty PRs .. it takes about as much time as to create a single good one
08:44<andythenorth>don't do this :P https://github.com/andythenorth/unsinkable-sam/commit/ffd82796d8bd8d433f680959b1104d675a98608c
08:44<andythenorth>or if you do, make content, not PRs for vanilla
08:44<TrueBrain>holy crap andythenorth , no, don't do that :P
08:45<TrueBrain>that commit message alone :D
08:45<andythenorth>it's ok to inflict madness on yourself
08:45<andythenorth>1 person project
08:45<TrueBrain>you knew what you were doing wrong there :P
08:45<andythenorth>exactly
08:45<TrueBrain>can't believe you followed a commit message style for that :D
08:45<andythenorth>that just increases the lol
08:45<andythenorth>'look at my diligence'
08:45<TrueBrain>hahaha :) Owh, this is a perfect example, tnx :D
08:45<andythenorth>I was saving it up
08:45<TrueBrain>reminds me of commit messages like: "did stuff"
08:45<TrueBrain>"fixed more things"
08:45<andythenorth>the typos are the cherry on top
08:45<TrueBrain>"unbroke the game"
08:45<reldred>Don’t ever look at my GitHub then...
08:46<andythenorth>'fixed unrelated typos becuase I noticed them'
08:46<TrueBrain>reldred: it is fine if nobody has to review them :)
08:46<Xaroth>the string concatenation alone is making me shudder :P
08:46<andythenorth>oh and I ran black :)
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08:46<andythenorth>but I didn't mention that
08:46<reldred>Just me a year later trying to figure out wtf was wrong with me
08:46<TrueBrain>everyones worst enemy .. you of a year ago :D
08:47<andythenorth>"Change: fixed stuff; ran black over entire codebase; moved to python 3"
08:47<Samu>very well, i'll make a separate PR for it
08:47<TrueBrain>(not you you, but you you, you get what I mean :D)
08:47<andythenorth>ideal commit
08:47<TrueBrain>Samu: and it better be well documented! :)
08:47<Samu>that's the harder part
08:47<TrueBrain>programming is more than C++ :)
08:48<andythenorth>oof ships are annoying
08:48<TrueBrain>as in this case, I am sure in your world "clearable watered object tiles" makes total sense .. but really, wtf does it even mean :P
08:48<Samu>rocks on water
08:48<Samu>requires newgrf objects
08:49<TrueBrain>so things like that, including a savegame to show it, are pretty much mandatory for such PRs
08:49<TrueBrain>and yes, that is a lot of work for very few lines
08:49<TrueBrain>if you check any of my PRs as of late .. I spend more time documenting why I changed something, then I spend on the change itself
08:50<TrueBrain>take https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/8512 alone
08:50<TrueBrain>the fix was simple .. but boy, it requires some backstory for someone else to agree with that
08:50<TrueBrain>if I want my PRs to be reviewed smoothly, I have to put in the effort that the reviewer can understand what is happening, without reading alllll the code himself too
08:51<andythenorth>so I have some nice code for subtly randomising wagon company colours
08:51<andythenorth>"nice' = 10k lines of sprites but eh
08:51<andythenorth>I thought it would be nice for ships, but it isn't :(
08:51<andythenorth>https://grf.farm/images/oof_ship_randomised_cc.png
08:52<+glx>hmm I may need to update commit messages in #8032
08:52<andythenorth>because they're not directly next to each other, the randomisation isn't really noticed
08:52<TrueBrain>it is smooth andythenorth , it is not bad :)
08:52<TrueBrain>gives a bit more colour to the game, honestly
08:52<andythenorth>it's not bad, but it's not enough :)
08:53<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] orudge updated pull request #8340: Draft: Feature: Create Universal (x86_64 + Apple Silicon) build on macOS https://git.io/JkqLt
08:53<andythenorth>hmm maybe I can paint the vehicle name on the ship
08:53<andythenorth>can I have in-game sprite editing thx bai
08:53<andythenorth>'web service'
08:54<TrueBrain>glx: in error_gui.cpp, you now change a 3 second timer into a 1 second timer
08:54<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: but, if you notice it, it wasn't subtle enough
08:54<andythenorth>yes
08:54<TrueBrain>meaning error messages only stay 5 seconds, instead of the 15 seconds now
08:54<andythenorth>foreground is background etc
08:54<+glx>they stay as specified in the options :)
08:54<TrueBrain>glx: not sure there is a right solution :P
08:55<TrueBrain>well, tooltip says "seconds", but it was never "seconds" :D
08:55<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause so to restate the goal, the point isn't 'notice my cool recolouring callback'
08:55<andythenorth>the point is 'ship instances feel a bit more individualised'
08:55<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: lots of places where people said "20 days" but actually it was "50 days" because the game counted in 2.5 days units
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08:56<andythenorth>le snail_UES_
08:56<snail_UES_>hey andythenorrh
08:58<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8032: Fix #7904: Don't use a timer for hundredth tick determination https://git.io/JLxO0
08:59<TrueBrain>wait, orudge , that works? That really is all that is needed?
09:02<andythenorth>the grey ones are more distinct https://grf.farm/images/oof_ship_randomised_cc_2.png
09:02<TrueBrain>andythenorth: I really do like it; it is one of those gimmick things that make things feel more alive :)
09:03<andythenorth>it's a keeper
09:03<andythenorth>I might force some colours to be more contrast
09:03<andythenorth>or have 3 variants, not 2
09:07<+glx>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/commit/33281491b16c566e26b05bb0a0d24f9cb7e2da77 <-- seems the "second" unit was added 10 years ago without real change in the behaviour
09:08<TrueBrain>someone just claimed it was seconds :P
09:08<+glx>then the help string was added later
09:08<@orudge>TrueBrain: well, that won't be for a universal build. This is just to make sure the ARM64 build works first.
09:09<TrueBrain>orudge: fair :) I still wonder about universal builds .... we will see :D
09:09<@orudge>vcpkg has been updated with the newer version of cmake, though I don't know if the same version is deployed on the GitHub servers or how it is cached
09:09<@orudge>so let's see what happens
09:09<TrueBrain>pam pam pammmm
09:10<supermop_Home>hi
09:11<TrueBrain>glx: even in that version, it was never seconds :D (had to check, of course :D)
09:11<TrueBrain>can't blame anyone from assuming it would be, tbh
09:12<TrueBrain>I was thinking we could just rename the setting and really do make it seconds ... worst people go like: heh? Didn't I set this to NNN?!
09:12<TrueBrain>:P
09:13<+glx>btw I like your suggestion for duration timer
09:14<TrueBrain>a tiny bit more work, but worth it I think :)
09:14<TrueBrain>hmm ... why can't I send this truck to a truck station?! NewGRFs confuse me
09:15<andythenorth>articulated?
09:15<TrueBrain>doesn't look like it
09:15<TrueBrain>https://pasteboard.co/JIxRFvT.png
09:15<TrueBrain>the highlighted one
09:15<TrueBrain>can only go to a pass-through stop
09:15<andythenorth>articulated
09:16<andythenorth>did we not fix the error message?
09:16*andythenorth looks
09:16<TrueBrain>how can I tell it is articulated?
09:16<andythenorth>no
09:16<TrueBrain>owh, when driving
09:16<TrueBrain>and boy, that does look very ugly (sorry to say)
09:16<andythenorth>from the buy menu, you have no clue
09:16<TrueBrain>I must stop looking at that
09:17<TrueBrain>owh boy, that looks VERY weird
09:17<TrueBrain>this game is not build for that kind of animation
09:17<andythenorth>nope
09:17<TrueBrain>oef ......
09:17<TrueBrain>I cannot handle this set
09:17<andythenorth>try Timberwolf's
09:17<TrueBrain>error btw is: "vehicle can't go to that station"
09:17<TrueBrain>that is it
09:18<TrueBrain>no detail on what the issue is
09:18<TrueBrain>confusing as fuck, I can tell you
09:18<andythenorth>yeah I repro-ed
09:18<TrueBrain>if I wouldn't have you, I would have removed it and just thought: what-ever, stupid game
09:18<andythenorth>it's remarkable how many players we actually have :)
09:18<TrueBrain>my problem with these articulated vehicles, they detach in corners
09:19<TrueBrain>which makes me go: OWH NO!!!!
09:19<TrueBrain>but they recover
09:19<TrueBrain>especially in an U-turn, one part is still going the wrong way :D
09:19<andythenorth>it's quite jarring?
09:19<andythenorth>I am used to it
09:19<TrueBrain>sorry, I know, lot of hard work goes into stuff like this, but boy .. this game was not made for these animations
09:19<andythenorth>in newgrf done > perfection very often
09:20<andythenorth>10/8 sprites are also weird in turns
09:20<andythenorth>don't even look at the long ships :P
09:20<andythenorth>on canalas
09:20<andythenorth>they clip nearby houses etc
09:20<TrueBrain>https://pasteboard.co/JIxTF77.png <- I mean ...
09:20<andythenorth>ha complete detach
09:21<TrueBrain>https://pasteboard.co/JIxTUsM.png even worse
09:21<andythenorth>"I just draw them"
09:21<TrueBrain>https://pasteboard.co/JIxU2pZ.png and now it is running away
09:21<TrueBrain>https://pasteboard.co/JIxUaGl.png clipped inside
09:22<TrueBrain>I doubt we can blame the NewGRF for this .. I am afraid it is more the game doing shitty stuff
09:22<andythenorth>reimplement as hovercraft?
09:22<TrueBrain>as I said, I cannot watch this .. :P
09:22<TrueBrain>ll
09:22<andythenorth>triggered!
09:23<andythenorth>stick to trains
09:27<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: the NewGRF can make this worse if their sprites are misaligned to the bounding box
09:27<Eddi|zuHause>but yes, U-Turns are the worst
09:29<andythenorth>I suspect Hog is misaligned
09:29<andythenorth>for years I have been aligning sprites with the displayed bounding box (ctrl-B)
09:29<andythenorth>but last year or so I learned that is wrong
09:30<TrueBrain>:(
09:30<TrueBrain>anyway, the set looks awesome .. just the game allows it to glitch too much :P
09:30<andythenorth>I have had it explained to me multiple times, but I am just a bit dense about some ideas
09:30<TrueBrain>disallow-90-degree-turns for RVs?! :D
09:30<andythenorth>like...I see a bounding box, so I align the sprite with it
09:31<Eddi|zuHause>it's probably fine with / and \ views, but | and – are ... special
09:31<TrueBrain>this was always the case btw .. it is funny how much bigger busses get in the | and -
09:31<andythenorth>no it's wrong for \ and / also
09:31<TrueBrain>less noticeable :)
09:32<Eddi|zuHause>there's also some weirdness with "we moved the bounding box to the center of the [shortened] vehicle, but tried to move the anchor point back to not break old grfs
09:33<andythenorth>these might still be wrong https://grf.farm/images/bounding_lol_boxes.png
09:33<andythenorth>but that was the result after peter told me how wrong the older version was
09:33<andythenorth>previous version tried to place sprite more inside the box
09:34<TrueBrain>wtf is OrderBackup, and do I care .. hmm
09:34<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: i think that's when you sell a vehicle and immediately buy a new one, it gets the old order list back
09:35<TrueBrain>ah, that would make sense, I guess
09:35<TrueBrain>tnx
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09:36<Eddi|zuHause>(you lose the order list if you close the depot, or sell another vehicle)
09:37<TrueBrain>okay, and implicit orders update themselves, that is nice
09:38<TrueBrain>to fix a bug I have to change RemoveOrderFromAllVehicles to also allow removing orders of a single vehicle type
09:38<TrueBrain>but this "All" is in there :P
09:39<TrueBrain>guess I should rename it :P
09:39<Eddi|zuHause>s/All/Many :)
09:42<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #7972: Impossible/invalid orders aren't marked as such in the order list https://git.io/JvGub
09:45<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened pull request #8514: Change: Allow to build dock on clearable watered object tiles https://git.io/JLxsA
09:48<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #8032: Fix #7904: Don't use a timer for hundredth tick determination https://git.io/JvruE
09:52<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #8514: Change: Allow to build dock on clearable watered object tiles https://git.io/JLxGl
09:54<supermop_Home>TrueBrain in TTO that was the only thing keeping you sane when trying to replace old vehicles
09:56<TrueBrain>wait, you are still sane? You don't belong here! We are all not sane in here! :D
09:56<TrueBrain>glx: that looks nice, the error timer :D I am still annoyed by the 3-ish second thing :P
09:56<Eddi|zuHause>honestly, i'm pretty sure i've never met a sane person in my entire life
09:56<TrueBrain>but also still no clue what we can do about it :)
09:59<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #7972: Impossible/invalid orders aren't marked as such in the order list https://git.io/JvGub
10:01<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: i think we should take a step back and look at it from a higher angle
10:02<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #7972: Impossible/invalid orders aren't marked as such in the order list https://git.io/JvGub
10:03<supermop_Home>TrueBrain maybe i was still sane in 1994
10:03<TrueBrain>I always hope Eddi|zuHause is still typing after such comments, but often I notice he isn't :D
10:05<Eddi|zuHause>sorry, i took a step back from the keyboard :p
10:07<Eddi|zuHause>i think i'll type some thoughts in the ticket
10:08<TrueBrain>:)
10:08*andythenorth has concerns about lunch
10:09-!-ekangmonyet [~ekangmony@202.151.229.112] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:09<supermop_Home>go for a ploughman's
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10:09<supermop_Home>can't lose
10:10<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #8515: Fix: don't allow cloning vehicles if cloning orders is failing https://git.io/JLxZZ
10:10<supermop_Home>late for lunch there isn't it?
10:10<TrueBrain>at least I could partially fix the thing I found most annoying .. but by no means it fixes the issue
10:11<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #7972: Impossible/invalid orders aren't marked as such in the order list https://git.io/JvGub
10:11<@orudge>TrueBrain: https://github.com/orudge/OpenTTD/runs/1662877336?check_suite_focus=true <-- for arm64, it just says "this check failed", no further output. Is that... normal? It seemse to have taken a long time to get the macOS builds building, I'm guessing they don't have a lot of build machines for macOS
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10:12<TrueBrain>orudge: for releases we indeed use a macos agent that is in beta
10:12<TrueBrain>and it seems they don't have that many
10:12<TrueBrain>so indeed, retrying is the only solution ..
10:12<TrueBrain>you can also try downgrading to 10.13 I believe
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10:12<@orudge>Ah OK
10:12<TrueBrain>they have more of those available
10:13<TrueBrain>but I don't know the impact of this
10:13<TrueBrain>the CI uses the old macos runners
10:13<@orudge>I think 11.0 is needed for arm64, though it might work on the 10.13 - depends on what xcode version is installed
10:13<@orudge>Will retry it
10:13<TrueBrain>10.15 is the old one
10:14<TrueBrain>https://github.com/actions/virtual-environments/blob/main/images/macos/macos-10.15-Readme.md
10:14<andythenorth>ok I have overlooked combining 1CC and 2CC with this randomisation
10:14<andythenorth>10k lines of sprites won't be enough
10:14<TrueBrain>(and https://github.com/actions/virtual-environments/blob/main/images/macos/macos-11.0-Readme.md )
10:14<andythenorth>I need 160k lines, and some help with maths
10:19<+glx>TrueBrain: you may want to unlink #7972 from #8515 ;)
10:19<Samu>i making void tiles flood the edge tiles instead of the tiles flooding themselves
10:20<Samu>at least, all the flood code stays in one place
10:20<TrueBrain>glx: lol "not fix" ... I added <!-- --> to make it not link :D
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10:23<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 approved pull request #8515: Fix: don't allow cloning vehicles if cloning orders is failing https://git.io/JLxnm
10:25<TrueBrain>https://pasteboard.co/JIyjZVB.png
10:25<TrueBrain>I can do this
10:25<TrueBrain>just the double spaces are annoying me :P
10:25<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on issue #7972: Impossible/invalid orders aren't marked as such in the order list https://git.io/JvGub
10:26<TrueBrain>https://pasteboard.co/JIykl7p.png lol ..
10:28<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #7972: Impossible/invalid orders aren't marked as such in the order list https://git.io/JvGub
10:29*TrueBrain uploaded an image: image.png (27KB) < http://tasks.synapse:8008/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.home.truebrain.nl/TnHvEKLHTmzQuUYpMKQryJKz >
10:29<TrueBrain>wtf
10:29<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on issue #7972: Impossible/invalid orders aren't marked as such in the order list https://git.io/JvGub
10:29<TrueBrain>good luck reaching that URL
10:29<TrueBrain>no clue what my client did there :P
10:30<TrueBrain>https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/1663690/103910732-771ce200-5105-11eb-8d08-ec485e41e55d.png <- I love how fucked up the order GUI is :D
10:30<TrueBrain>but that is an old problem :P
10:36<FLHerne>You should see the JGR version
10:37<andythenorth>yes but players love it
10:37<andythenorth>emoji
10:38<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #8516: Fix #7972: show invalid orders to stations that don't accept your vehicle https://git.io/JLxcf
10:38<TrueBrain>I love this fix .. it is really tiny :)
10:40<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8516: Fix #7972: show invalid orders to stations that don't accept your vehicle https://git.io/JLxcf
10:40<TrueBrain>mandatory second push, because ...
10:41<FLHerne>TrueBrain: Perhaps you should add a "(Station Removed)" string to the current invalid-order?
10:42<milek7>trying to read that red text burns my eyes :P
10:42<FLHerne>Actually, would just changing the string work?
10:42<TrueBrain>FLHerne: the station is not removed; just the part this engine can go :)
10:42<FLHerne>TrueBrain: I mean, for the case that's shown in red text before your patch
10:43<TrueBrain>the "(invalid order)" after you completely removed a station?
10:43<FLHerne>Yes
10:43<TrueBrain>there are more routes that could lead to a dummy order
10:43<TrueBrain>so that might not be trivial
10:43<TrueBrain>(removing depots, waypoints, hangars, ..)
10:43<FLHerne>Ok, <thing> removed, but then you have to know what <thing> was...
10:43<TrueBrain>I am not against such change btw, but that is something for another PR I guess :)
10:44<FLHerne>So yes
10:44<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on issue #7972: Impossible/invalid orders aren't marked as such in the order list https://git.io/JvGub
10:44<TrueBrain>(and yes, as people noticed all day: when I am fixing bugs, I am pretty much fixing the bug, not the other 10 things I find wrong surrounding it :D)
10:45<TrueBrain>like this is the second bug on which I get the response: REWRITE THE WHOLE THING :P :P :D
10:45<TrueBrain>I have 3 other huge features I would rather work on :D
10:46<Eddi|zuHause>great. now i started up that game...
10:46<andythenorth>also...rewrite fallacy
10:46<TrueBrain>you only have yourself to blame :)
10:46<Eddi|zuHause>should i actually play? :p
10:46<TrueBrain>@random 1 2
10:46<TrueBrain>bah, I disabled that :P
10:47<Eddi|zuHause>do we have @8ball? :p
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10:48<TrueBrain>I made supybot a whitelist, with very few commands on the list ...
10:48<LordAro>TrueBrain: are you at least writing down the other wrong things you find :p
10:48<TrueBrain>as supybot was annoying me, how many stupid commands it has
10:49<TrueBrain>LordAro: nope! As the issue-tracker wouldn't be able to handle it
10:49<LordAro>D:
10:49<TrueBrain>but really, if you play the game after not having played it for years, you spot a lot of: WTF?!
10:50<TrueBrain>like: why can't I send this truck to a truck station?!
10:50<TrueBrain>but seemly nobody had that question, so it must be only me having that issue :)
10:51<TrueBrain>23 open things to do for 1.11, 9 of which just require approvals on 5 PRs :D
10:51<TrueBrain>so 14 things left
10:51<TrueBrain>4 with some minor work from their authors
10:51<Eddi|zuHause><TrueBrain> but seemly nobody had that question, so it must be only me having that issue :) <-- you haven't read the forum in that time either, right? :p
10:52<LordAro>TrueBrain: why couldn't you send that truck to a truck station? :p
10:52<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: forum? Do we have one?
10:52<TrueBrain>LordAro: it was articulated or something ... which the game didn't tell me .. like .. at all
10:52<TrueBrain>just don't use NewGRFs and you are fine
10:53<TrueBrain>I see no reason why an articulated vehicle can't get in a truck stop btw ...
10:53<TrueBrain>just reverse
10:53<TrueBrain>ffs
10:54<TrueBrain>but yeah, I can spend literally days on polishing OpenTTD .. so many rough edges when you come in "fresh"
10:54<Eddi|zuHause>"days"? :p
10:55<Eddi|zuHause>that sounds optimistic by several orders of magnitude :p
10:55<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened pull request #8517: Codechange: Make void tiles flood edge tiles, instead of edge tiles flooding themselves https://git.io/JLxCt
10:56<TrueBrain>Samu: another word of the wise: if you make more PRs in a project than the maintainers can review and merge/close, you are not doing yourself any favours
10:57<Samu>what do you mean
10:58<TrueBrain>if you in a week make 10 new PRs, and only 2 get reviewed / closed / merged ... you are not helping a project
10:58<TrueBrain>especially if you do that week in week out
11:00<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] orudge updated pull request #8340: Draft: Feature: Create Universal (x86_64 + Apple Silicon) build on macOS https://git.io/JkqLt
11:00<Samu>hmm, if i make too few, im told to split, if i make many, im told not to make many :(
11:00<TrueBrain>as in the rest of life, there is a balance to be made
11:00<TrueBrain>and those 2 things you mention, have little to do with each other
11:01<TrueBrain>you have to split them, as they have no relation with each other
11:01<TrueBrain>and you are flooding us, without contributing in any other way .. we cannot be your puppet that only has time to only review your PRs :)
11:01<andythenorth>Samu also you get lots of conflicting advice in open source
11:01<andythenorth>this happens
11:01<TrueBrain>it is almost our fulltime job .. which is not okay ;)
11:01<TrueBrain>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pulls/SamuXarick <- just see that list of open PRs :)
11:02<TrueBrain>it becomes rather unrealistic of you to expect us to review them all
11:02<TrueBrain>you have to find a balance what you PR
11:02<TrueBrain>wait till the PRs you have open are processed
11:02<TrueBrain>and open a new one
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11:02<TrueBrain>or find other ways to help out; there is more than just creating code :P
11:03<andythenorth>reviewing PRs :P
11:03<andythenorth>deleting code :P
11:03<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8340: Draft: Feature: Create Universal (x86_64 + Apple Silicon) build on macOS https://git.io/JLxCz
11:04<Eddi|zuHause>https://www.twitch.tv/eddijk anybody got a clue what i was trying to do last time?
11:04<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] orudge updated pull request #8340: Draft: Feature: Create Universal (x86_64 + Apple Silicon) build on macOS https://git.io/JkqLt
11:04<TrueBrain>at work I used to put people on a quota .. if you have 5 open PRs, your next job cannot be to create a 6th. It has to be some other work, like reviewing other peoples work, updating documentation, triaging issues, etc
11:04<andythenorth>WIP control!
11:04<andythenorth>Kanban!
11:06<andythenorth>Samu most software is just management :P
11:06<andythenorth>here's some homework, pls report back :P http://ce.sharif.edu/courses/97-98/1/ce475-1/resources/root/Kanban-vs-Scrum.pdf
11:06<TrueBrain>I am already draining the review quota for OpenTTD .. but at least I am fixing bugs I did not create myself, or that nobody knew was a bug :P :P
11:06<TrueBrain>bah, my English sentences are still terrible; deal with it :P
11:06<Eddi|zuHause>software development is 10% writing new stuff, and 90% desperately trying to keep together the stuff that is already there
11:07<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] orudge commented on pull request #8340: Draft: Feature: Create Universal (x86_64 + Apple Silicon) build on macOS https://git.io/JLxCw
11:07<andythenorth>that ignores 60% meetings
11:07<andythenorth>and 30% wondering why the toolchain doesn't work
11:07<andythenorth>and 10% cat videos
11:07<Eddi|zuHause>you can drop 50% of those 60% meetings
11:07<andythenorth>or watch cat videos in them
11:07<andythenorth>saving time
11:07<andythenorth>efficiency
11:07<TrueBrain>orudge: vcpkg action code is kinda hiding behind another repo .. really annoying to find what things do, I noticed too :D
11:08<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: do that long enough, and you have no meetings :)
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11:08<andythenorth>how many recolour sprites do I need if I'm handling 2CC and 1CC remapping?
11:08*andythenorth can't basic maths
11:08<@orudge>TrueBrain: ah...
11:08<andythenorth>256?
11:08<TrueBrain>how many chicken can I put in my belly before I fall over ... I am about to find out! :)
11:08<andythenorth>7
11:08<LordAro>23
11:08<andythenorth>chickens, chicken wings, or chicken nuggets?
11:09<TrueBrain>well, it is 400grams total ..
11:09<@orudge>well, if this does work, then I'll try flipping that flag and we can go with that instead
11:09<TrueBrain>pretty sure I can eat that myself
11:09<TrueBrain>orudge: yeah, exactly :) Trial and error :D
11:09<TrueBrain>if you don't want to push in the branch that is linked to your PR, you can just push to any other branch btw
11:09<Samu>alright, im not doing any more PRs until you review the existing ones.
11:09<TrueBrain>the release workflow will just work orudge :)
11:10<Samu>will try to keep 5 or 6 open max
11:10<TrueBrain>Samu: would be appreciated; just to put in context, 20+% of the open PRs are yours ;)
11:11<TrueBrain>and they do take extra effort from our side, as we have to validate your claims etc. Which is totally fine, but you have to prioritize what you think is important to add to OpenTTD more :)
11:11<TrueBrain>most of us devs have 20+ branches in our local repository, because we didn't consider them important enough to make PR-ready
11:12<TrueBrain>that is absolutely normal and okay
11:13<TrueBrain>Samu: https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/8517 <- how I read this PR, you just spotted a silly glitch, and made a PR for it. What I always wonder: does it matter? How many people will notice? How important is this? Is it worth 2 hours of my time to review this? Something you do have to balance
11:13<TrueBrain>(you, as author of a PR)
11:14<TrueBrain>currently, as it stands, I put this as number #55 on my list of PRs to review, all the way at the bottom :) Not because it might be bad, or wrong .. just, because I do not think anyone would notice, and I can spend my 2 hours better on other things atm :)
11:14<Eddi|zuHause>to be fair, i did notice that some (many) years ago :)
11:14<TrueBrain>but you classified it as bug priority -10000 and never bothered to make an issue, I guess? :D
11:15<Eddi|zuHause>i think so :)
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11:17<TrueBrain>"Excluding merges, 13 authors have pushed 49 commits to master" <- this week :)
11:17<TrueBrain>"On master, 131 files have changed and there have been 2,217 additions and 2,269 deletions. "
11:17<TrueBrain>haha
11:18*andythenorth oh I already generated all the recolour sprites I need
11:18<andythenorth>I just did it wrong
11:18<andythenorth>ha ha lol etc
11:18<andythenorth>what an idiot
11:18<TrueBrain>last month, we did 100 PRs and 51 issues
11:18<andythenorth>take away my coding license
11:18<TrueBrain>wait, you need a license to code?
11:18<TrueBrain>oh-oh .......
11:18<andythenorth>you don't have one?
11:18<andythenorth>FML
11:18<andythenorth>this is....bad
11:19<andythenorth>and you won't be able to get one now due to Covid
11:19<TrueBrain>translator did 25% of the commits the last 30 days
11:19<TrueBrain>lol
11:19<andythenorth>translator used to be 98% of commits
11:19<TrueBrain>don't make this a negative thing!
11:19<LordAro>yeah, 25% is super low ;p
11:19<TrueBrain>I was enjoying the positive!
11:19<TrueBrain>ffs people :)
11:20<Eddi|zuHause>you win some you lose some :p
11:20<andythenorth>2016-2018 was the low https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/graphs/contributors
11:20<andythenorth>this is golden age
11:20<TrueBrain>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pulse/monthly <- I like pulse :)
11:20<TrueBrain>it looks nice :D
11:21<TrueBrain>okay, so I need to make 1000 commits more to beat frosch ....
11:21<TrueBrain>it just isn't fair .. NoAI, 1 commit
11:21<TrueBrain>TGP, 1 commit
11:21<TrueBrain>he is just cheating!
11:22<andythenorth>oof eddi has more commits than me
11:22<TrueBrain>Contributions: Additions, clearly show when those events happen :P
11:23<andythenorth>27 vs 21
11:23<Eddi|zuHause>how did that happen?
11:23<TrueBrain>right, chicken time
11:23<andythenorth>hammer time
11:23<Eddi|zuHause>also that's not counting the dozen or so svn commits "based on patch by eddi"
11:23<LordAro>132, nice
11:24<LordAro>how many of those are actually authored by me, i wonder
11:24<LordAro>oh, all of them
11:24<LordAro>cool
11:25<andythenorth>FIRS 6369 commits :P
11:25<andythenorth>"Change: some pixels"
11:28<Timberwolf>Road Vehicles has a commit for "fixes of unknown nature", which is confidence-inspiring.
11:30<TrueBrain>LordAro: it counts authored, so it misses commits you committed (and possibly modified)
11:30<TrueBrain>So it is the lower bar, basically :D
11:41<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] orudge updated pull request #8340: Draft: Feature: Create Universal (x86_64 + Apple Silicon) build on macOS https://git.io/JkqLt
11:42<andythenorth>oof maths for offsetting into recolour sprites :P
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11:42<Eddi|zuHause><grm-base-value> + <cc-number>?
11:43<+glx>orudge: I think with doNotUpdateVcpkg it also needs a specific commit
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11:45<+glx>or maybe not, I can't remember what I tested during the CI move
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12:19<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #8514: Change: Allow to build dock on clearable watered object tiles https://git.io/JLxB1
12:26<andythenorth>I like black, but it makes some maths very hard to read
12:26<andythenorth>https://github.com/andythenorth/unsinkable-sam/blob/colour_randomisation_strategies/src/utils.py#L77
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12:29<frosch123>TrueBrain: you can replace the error message duration with a on/off setting: do you want to read error messages, or do you want them to vanish as fast as possible
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12:31<+glx>when set to 0 they are not shown at all (unless critical)
12:31<frosch123>i mute all sounds, so some red flickering is a welcome notification :p
12:39<andythenorth>is this valid nml? and valid maths? :P return custom_ship_recolour_sprites + (16 * 1) + company_colour2
12:42<+glx>custom_ship_recolour_sprites is a switch ?
12:42<Eddi|zuHause>doesn't sound like very sane maths
12:43<andythenorth>it's a recolour sprite
12:43<+glx>so a constant
12:43<Eddi|zuHause>should be valid nml, if custom-ship_recolour_sprites is a parameter (grm result)
12:43<andythenorth>company_colour2 is a var
12:43<andythenorth>or shoudl be
12:43<andythenorth>it doesn't fail anyway, but the results are...unexpected
12:43<+glx>yeah if it was a switch nml syntax would error
12:43<Eddi|zuHause>what's the (16*1) supposed to mean?
12:44<supermop_Home>recoloring ships?
12:45<andythenorth>it's an offset into the sprites
12:45<andythenorth>there are another 32 of these
12:45<andythenorth>or so
12:46<andythenorth>I'll do the maths in python, cleaner output
12:47<rptr_>hi
12:57<andythenorth>lol 10 mins hunting a non-existent bug because company colour caching is aggressive :)
12:58<andythenorth>GG
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13:03<Xaroth>andythenorth: if black makes your math too hard to read, it's likely that you should rephrase it a bit ;)
13:03<andythenorth>I wondered
13:04<andythenorth>but then I'm rearranging me to suit the tool
13:04<andythenorth>bit weird
13:04<Xaroth>also, a list of a keys() to find an index?
13:04<Xaroth>not all python implementations promise consistency in dict keys/items/values
13:05<Xaroth>i.e. it could become [1,2,3] or [2,3,1] in some implementations
13:05<andythenorth>pff
13:05<andythenorth>people have to move on :)
13:06<andythenorth>I was stuck at work on 2.4 for what seemed like 10 years
13:06<andythenorth>very bad idea
13:06<Xaroth>but I would definitely rewrite those few lines
13:06<andythenorth>let's see
13:06<Xaroth>move the index fetching out of it
13:07<andythenorth>to a var?
13:07<Xaroth>yeah
13:08<andythenorth>I've spent 15 years teaching myself to stop doing that :P
13:08<andythenorth>this isn't 'my first flash game' :)
13:08<andythenorth>"let's var everything"
13:08<andythenorth>var One = 1
13:08<Xaroth>you've spent 15 years to learn to make unreadable code? :P
13:08<andythenorth>I've spent 15 years learning not to include pointless abstractions
13:08<andythenorth>when one line of python can be scanned in one line
13:08<Xaroth>this isn't pointless
13:09<andythenorth>black seems to throw all that out of the window
13:09*andythenorth will adapt
13:09<Xaroth>black is of the opinion that cluttering a single line of code with too much different operations is unreadable, and should be on separate lines
13:09<andythenorth>can't even tell what it's supposed to do
13:10<andythenorth>it would be easier to read if I wasn't calling list() on the keys
13:11<andythenorth>why am I even doing that, are keys not an iterable with index()?
13:12<Xaroth>https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3106/
13:12<Xaroth>.keys/values/items return values are special
13:13<andythenorth>nice
13:13<Xaroth>afaik they return the actual references to the keys/values
13:14<Xaroth>rather than a copy of that
13:14<Xaroth>that's why they force you to list() it to do stuff with it
13:18<andythenorth>not really good enough yet https://github.com/andythenorth/unsinkable-sam/blob/d8cc02e31dfec594aec74c33ba5d0b2c1e30caba/src/utils.py#L76
13:18<andythenorth>but eh
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13:20<Wolf01>And now a friend raised a question: why superscript numbers (¹²³) in ascii table are in wrong order?
13:20<LordAro>they're not in ascii
13:20<LordAro><pedantry>
13:20<Wolf01>(speaking of OEM850)
13:20<LordAro></*
13:21<frosch123>andythenorth: index() on dict keys() ? isn't that random?
13:21<andythenorth>not in python 3.something
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13:21<LordAro>3.7
13:21<andythenorth>https://softwaremaniacs.org/blog/2020/02/05/dicts-ordered/
13:22<frosch123>oh, insertion order
13:22<LordAro>still a bit of a weird thing to do
13:22<andythenorth>I could do the old style list of 2-tuples
13:22<andythenorth>but $someone somewhere said get with the program
13:22<frosch123>LordAro: i think microsoft unordered_set does the same :)
13:23<andythenorth>unpacking ((a, b), (c, d)) is fun but eh
13:23<LordAro>frosch123: hehe
13:23<LordAro>frosch123: well, iirc, it was a cpython implementation detail in 3.6
13:24<frosch123>that's what andy's link says
13:24<andythenorth>I tried the OrderedDict thing somewhere, but it's one more import to faff with
13:24<andythenorth>I am going to blame TB for my choices as he will be full of chicken and unable to remember what was said
13:25<frosch123>tb full of chicken? did he get a cheap deal on left-over christmas-birds?
13:25<andythenorth>probly
13:25<andythenorth>it does look weird though eh, list(foo.keys()).index('bar')
13:26<andythenorth>why not just foo.index(bar)?
13:26<LordAro>i'd question why you're trying to treat it as an ordereddict at all
13:26<frosch123>i guess sorted(foo.keys()).index(bar) is not what you want?
13:27<andythenorth>LordAro because the order is significant
13:27<andythenorth>and a dict is less ugly to work with than a list of 2-tuples
13:27<andythenorth>potato / potato though
13:27<Xaroth>you might want to put some checks to make sure you're running py3.7 at least.
13:27<andythenorth>I _might_
13:27<andythenorth>but you know...
13:27<Xaroth>or fall back to OrderedDict on older versions, but /shrug
13:28<andythenorth>or write a note
13:28<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master https://git.io/JLxux
13:28<@DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
13:30<LordAro>list(foo.keys()).index(bar) it is then
13:30<LordAro>split it out into a separate variable if you want to :p
13:30<Xaroth>Your comment also doesn't match your var names, but that's a bit pedantic
13:31<Xaroth>and fstrings might work well with this
13:31<andythenorth>no that's a good spot thanks
13:31<Xaroth>and 'is' on int comparisons.. it works, but not advised
13:32<Xaroth>but only because you're comparing to an int that's interned :P
13:32<Xaroth>(-5 - 255 is interned, the rest is not)
13:33*andythenorth fixes
13:33<andythenorth>'black considered useful'
13:34<andythenorth>frosch123 I did random CC variation for ships :P https://grf.farm/images/oof_ship_randomised_cc_2.png
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13:42<frosch123>haha, if you keep the difference so small, some people may never notice :)
13:44<andythenorth>yeah I'm unconvinced so far
13:44<andythenorth>ships really need some kind of randomisation
13:44<andythenorth>when you have a group of e.g. 10 or 20 all same, it's boring
13:45<frosch123>make them rusty in different positions? :p
13:46<andythenorth>grows the sprite count horribly :P
13:46<andythenorth>maybe a layer
13:47<andythenorth>can we have procedural painting directly in game?
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13:50<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #8492: Fix: Don't allow towns to terraform certain floodable tiles https://git.io/JLdA0
13:50<andythenorth>4096 spritelayers, each layer has 1 pixel sprite :P
13:51<andythenorth>'procedural painting'
13:52<supermop_Home>make a brown splotch but a big chain of switches to position it?
13:53<andythenorth>yes
13:53<andythenorth>there are old ideas about dirt increasing between services
13:56<TrueBrain>are my PRs reviewed yet? Awh :(
13:56<TrueBrain>:P
13:58<andythenorth>I could randomise to a whole different company colour https://grf.farm/images/oof_ship_randomised_1cc_2cc_and_variants.png
13:58<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8515: Fix: don't allow cloning vehicles if cloning orders is failing https://git.io/JLxZZ
14:02<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8032: Fix #7904: Don't use a timer for hundredth tick determination https://git.io/JLxgt
14:02<frosch123>i got access to a great website :) "for security reasons your password may not contain <, > or =". but the initial generated one contained those, and now i cannot change password :p
14:02<TrueBrain>lolz ... "security reasons" my ass :P
14:04<frosch123>maybe they store them in an excel table, and excel may render them as html
14:04<frosch123>ah, yeah, excel also explains the "="
14:04<frosch123>i was wondering about that
14:05<andythenorth>they're keeping them in plain text
14:05<andythenorth>so access control is does form.password.value == database.passwords.username
14:05<andythenorth>and they can't have comparison operators
14:06<Xaroth>btw andythenorth, `for line in file:` also works instead of readlines()
14:06<Xaroth>and if you're using 3.7+, you don't need codecs.open to open with a certain encoding.
14:06<andythenorth>is there a 'with' version or something also?
14:06<andythenorth>I don't seem to be closing the file
14:06<Xaroth>yes
14:06<TrueBrain>< > are not valid because they are afraid they are HTML escapes that they forgot to encode properly, and = is not allowed as they check if the password is base64 encoded by checking for a = in the string .. I think that is more realistic, for websites which such statements :P
14:06<Xaroth>with open(path, mode, encoding="utf-8"):
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14:16<LordAro>reasonably certain utf-8 is the default now
14:16<TrueBrain>you are .. correct! :D
14:19<milek7>umm, no
14:19<milek7>" The default encoding is platform dependent (whatever locale.getpreferredencoding() returns),"
14:20<andythenorth>oofsie
14:20*andythenorth puts utf-8 back
14:20<frosch123>so it is cp1252 on windows?
14:20<frosch123>and utf-8 on everything else?
14:23<milek7>that depends on windows settings
14:23<milek7>cp1250 for me
14:24<andythenorth>Xaroth thanks, improved those
14:25<TrueBrain>saying it is not utf-8 is very pedantic :) Since Python 3.6 Windows defaults to UTF-8, on MacOS it was already UTF-8 and Linux .. well, only people who like shooting themselves in the foot are non-utf8 :)
14:26<TrueBrain>most Python3 programmers have been leaving out the encoding for a long time now :P
14:27<TrueBrain>you basically have to get out of your way to get it non-utf8 .. not sure andythenorth should care about that :)
14:27<frosch123>https://docs.python.org/3/library/locale.html#locale.getpreferredencoding <- half of the text is about android
14:27<TrueBrain>funny aint it? :D
14:27<frosch123>is it just me, or is that platform way too new to have encoding issues?
14:27*andythenorth considers lunch
14:27<LordAro>milek7: i'm pretty sure default changed to utf-8 even on windows for 3.8 or 3.9 orsomething
14:28<TrueBrain>https://docs.python.org/3/using/cmdline.html#envvar-PYTHONUTF8 <- this is the best thing ever, but I believe it is still off by default
14:28<TrueBrain>it basically says: fuck you all :)
14:28<frosch123>did they hire old ms or java people, who thought ucs2 is a thing?
14:29<TrueBrain>well, you will be shocked how many PEPs are wasted on encoding over different OSes :P
14:29<frosch123>oh, some insurances run machines which do not even know about ascii
14:30<milek7>TrueBrain: https://i.imgur.com/GUvgW5A.png
14:31<TrueBrain>default != your configuration :)
14:32<andythenorth>do we know how to reload GS yet?
14:32*andythenorth considered reloading last autosave
14:32<andythenorth>and hoping that saveload in the GS is not the broken part
14:33<TrueBrain>but in case of doubt, start with -X UTF8 :P
14:33<milek7>TrueBrain: I'm not sure why you are trying to argue facts here
14:34<milek7>for most windows users (who have not gone out of their way to set PYTHONUTF8) default encoding is not utf8
14:35*andythenorth looks at the PRs
14:35<andythenorth>PRs look back :(
14:35<Xaroth>UTF-8 here.
14:35<frosch123>andythenorth: drawing more eye icons? :p
14:35<andythenorth>do we need more?
14:35<milek7>https://github.com/python/cpython/blob/db68544122f5a0c7b80f69c0e643049efa6699c6/Doc/using/windows.rst#utf-8-mode
14:36<andythenorth>ok let's rip the plaster off the low numbers
14:36<andythenorth>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7000
14:36<andythenorth>do I make a test grf or not?
14:36<frosch123>i'll finish that during the weekend
14:36<frosch123>fix the stuff with intention, delete the stuff without intention
14:36<andythenorth>ok I can make a test grf (will be bloated due to being Iron Horse)
14:37<andythenorth>and I can make a savegame
14:37<andythenorth>or we could write an nml example for it
14:37<andythenorth>which might be preferable, but more boring
14:37<frosch123>did someone already write nml regressions for old/new produce syntax?
14:38<andythenorth>I wrote some examples which were declared 'not great'
14:38*andythenorth looks in tests also
14:38<milek7>TrueBrain:
14:38<milek7>>Since Python 3.6 Windows defaults to UTF-8
14:38<milek7>if by that you mean PEP529, that only applied to filesystem paths
14:38<milek7>"Notably, this does not impact the encoding of the contents of files. These will continue to default to locale.getpreferredencoding() (for text files) or plain bytes (for binary files). This only affects the encoding used when users pass a bytes object to Python where it is then passed to the operating system as a path name."
14:42<andythenorth>frosch123 this any good? https://github.com/OpenTTD/nml/commit/220acaf0d67d8ac713e8366b2589b40673400ea2#diff-f274537aaf2c509726a5ee54bb585c3c6e205fa6cf85a26d871bd7fc01a784a9
14:43<frosch123>did someone figure out what the examples were meant for?
14:48<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #8513: Fix: for arctic and tropic, make sure we have at least a few hills https://git.io/JLxal
14:49<andythenorth>frosch123 [I don't know emoji]
14:49<andythenorth>FLHerne made a commit though
14:49<LordAro>milek7: ah, that'll be it
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15:11<Samu>TrueBrain, #8513 is gonna break #8404
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15:20<andythenorth>was it lunch?
15:21<TrueBrain>LordAro: boy, 8055 is indeed a tough one, I get what you meant last time I asked about that :) Also a lot of double-code to ensure it really cannot be opened etc :P funny :)
15:22<TrueBrain>Samu: would it generate a merge conflict? yes. Does it "break" it? no.
15:22<+glx>conflicts happen, often fun to fix :)
15:22<Samu>but even without the conflict, it's going to be counterproductive
15:24<TrueBrain>flawless argumentation there :P Not sure what you are aiming at :D
15:26<TrueBrain>so if max-road is set to 0, you can't build roads, so you cannot help towns grown, unless you know about a GUI setting .. hmm
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15:26<TrueBrain>I like the screenshot in 8063, that looks like much better feedback to the user
15:26<Samu>your PR sets map height based on snow line height, so it forces terrain above snow. mine's approach sets the snow line height after the generation is done.
15:27<TrueBrain>so what is the problem? :)
15:27<Samu>it becomes kind of pointless
15:27<andythenorth>one prevents broken
15:27<andythenorth>one tries to put lipstick on the broken pig
15:27<andythenorth>this is just the fruit of experience
15:28<TrueBrain>so any pending PR we have prevents any fix surrounding similar code? I am honestly not sure what you are aiming at here Samu
15:28<TrueBrain>that you want your PR reviewed? Is that it?
15:28<TrueBrain>really not sure what point becomes pointless, honestly
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15:30<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #8032: Fix #7904: Don't use a timer for hundredth tick determination https://git.io/JvruE
15:31<Samu>mine becomes pointless
15:31<+glx>temporary third commit, will squash in first if ok :)
15:31<andythenorth>all code dies
15:31<TrueBrain>Samu: how so? How does mine invalidate yours?
15:32<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #8032: Fix #7904: Don't use a timer for hundredth tick determination https://git.io/JLxwy
15:32<TrueBrain>glx: personally, I wouldn't make it that complicated. Why not just do if (hundredth_tick_timeout == 0 && !_network_dedicated) ?
15:33<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #8063: Fix #8055: Always allow building any available roadtypes, even if there are no road vehicles available https://git.io/JLxw9
15:33<+glx>then retest 0 to reset ?
15:33<TrueBrain>yeah
15:33<Samu>because you set the heigh to be above the snow line, while mine tries to set the snow line based on the generated terrain. Yours will always have snow, so there's no point in trying to determine a snow level afterwards
15:33<+glx>I can do that
15:34<TrueBrain>glx: I personally think that is easier to read, but it might fully be me :)
15:34<frosch123>there are so many bs comments in 8063...
15:34<TrueBrain>Samu: that is only true if your PR tried to solve the wrong thing. I assumed it wanted to solve setting the snow line height manually, and just find a nice automated value
15:35<TrueBrain>that is valid before and after my PR; my PR only fixes things looking shitty right now
15:35<+glx>yeah auto snow should still work I think
15:35<TrueBrain>it is at least something to consider; I haven't formed an opinion about it :)
15:36<+glx>and TrueBrain's PR fix the non automatic stuff
15:37<TrueBrain>frosch123: I was thinking of enabling all toolbars, and adding what the image in 8063 shows; I think that is a lot better than disabling the icon as it currently is anyway
15:37<+glx>like if you manually set silly snow level it will try to generate a working map I think
15:37<TrueBrain>for trams I was rather confused the first time, like: why can't I click this .. do I need to forward time? :D
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15:37<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8513: Fix: for arctic and tropic, make sure we have at least a few hills https://git.io/JLxrv
15:37<frosch123>TrueBrain: what is the difference between that and setting "disable_unsuitable_building" to false?
15:38<TrueBrain>frosch123: the latter gives no visual feedback to the user he has no road vehicles available
15:38<TrueBrain>you can even build bus-stops etc
15:38<TrueBrain>so by disabling the bus-stop buttons + a small text telling why, might help the user a lot, my reasoning goes
15:39<TrueBrain>(but my reasoning might be flawed, ofc!)
15:39<frosch123>do the same for canals then :)
15:39<TrueBrain>for all toolbars, yes
15:39<frosch123>for road and rail it is harder
15:40<frosch123>roadtypes and railtypes have introduction conditions
15:40<TrueBrain>yeah .. can you request to the game if they will become available?
15:40<TrueBrain>is there such a callback?
15:40<frosch123>for railtypes it's easy. they become available if there is a vehicle that can drive on them, and some minimum year is reached
15:41<frosch123>roadtypes have that "default road" anomaly. it was a hot topic 5 years ago, i don't think nrt specified any behavior
15:41<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8516: Fix #7972: show invalid orders to stations that don't accept your vehicle https://git.io/JLxrG
15:42<TrueBrain>what do you mean, "default road" anomaly?
15:42<frosch123>if there are no trains, no railtype is available. if there are no roadvehicles, towns still need *some* road
15:43<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8512: Several mistakes with ending-year and extreme values https://git.io/JLxr8
15:43<frosch123>no idea what identifies that "town road type"
15:43<frosch123>trams are easy again. no trams available, no tramtypes available
15:43<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8516: Fix #7972: show invalid orders to stations that don't accept your vehicle https://git.io/JLxr0
15:44<TrueBrain>ideally, what I would like to do, is present two strings: either there are no tramtypes available, not now, not ever
15:44<TrueBrain>or, there are tramtypes available, just not now
15:45<TrueBrain>LordAro: honestly, I just looked at the Order GUI and was like: this is already a mess, let's add to it :P I would rather solve it differently, but I didn't know how :)
15:45<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #8032: Fix #7904: Don't use a timer for hundredth tick determination https://git.io/JvruE
15:45<TrueBrain>I considered leaving out the "non-stop" etc, but that was weird too
15:45<frosch123>TrueBrain: no idea what you mean. if there are no trams, all entries in the dropdown are disabled
15:45<TrueBrain>just making them red, but that was missing visual feedback
15:45<LordAro>TrueBrain: yeah, that's fair :)
15:46<TrueBrain>frosch123: what I mean is, there is a difference between no trams available now, and no trams available at all
15:46<TrueBrain>as in: did you forget to install a NewGRF?
15:46<TrueBrain>LordAro: if you have other ideas, I would really like that :)
15:46<frosch123>but why does that matter?
15:47<frosch123>do you want to allow building *some* tramtype when there are no trams?
15:47<frosch123>extending the road anomaly to trams?
15:47<TrueBrain>okay, so we were talking about 2 different things I see :D
15:47<TrueBrain>I now get what you mean
15:47<+glx>oh and moving hundredth_tick to a "local" thing removes an extra window loop, probably very small benefit but still
15:48<TrueBrain>frosch123: let me see if I can make a mock-up here, as I am not fully sure how trams etc work :)
15:49<frosch123>TrueBrain: i think the "disable/enable build tools when no vehicle is available" originated from before there were rail/road/tram types. imo that settings makes no sense for road/tram/rail/airports. only infrastructure it somewhat works is canals
15:49<TrueBrain>okay, what I wanted to solve is already solved, so nevermind :)
15:50<TrueBrain>frosch123: what I am aiming at, is that there is missing some visual elements to make the player aware why buttons are disabled
15:50<TrueBrain>it really frustrated me
15:51<frosch123>i once worked on a software, where disabled buttons were clickable, and then they displayed an error message
15:51<TrueBrain>if only the tooltip would indicate why they were disabled, would already help
15:51<frosch123>non-standard guis :)
15:51<TrueBrain>but I was now aiming for something slightly more subtle
15:53<andythenorth>hide the tram icon in main toolbar if no trams :P
15:53<andythenorth>disable if trams not ready yet
15:53<TrueBrain>that is not really a way I would consider useful :P
15:54<Samu>warning! happens since b30c3f6 https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/runs/1664447174#step:6:700
15:54<TrueBrain>I am very sure b30c3f6 did not cause that :P
15:55<andythenorth>just include trams, problem vanishes?
15:55<TrueBrain>LordAro: I think I now a solution for the order GUI, will try in a bit :)
15:55<andythenorth>trams in openttd.grf!
15:55<LordAro>TrueBrain: :o
15:55<andythenorth>no trams, because we didn't want community drama, is how I remember it
15:55<andythenorth>OMG YOU ADDED TRAMS, I SWITCH TO SIMUTRANS
15:56<andythenorth>GAME RUINED
15:56<Samu>happens with this https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/commit/0125892f041026d049dd9ce7e6d1a63ed5fd67eb
15:56<LordAro>correct!
15:56<LordAro>but that's definitely not b30c3f6
15:57<Samu>ok, my bad, that's the parent one
15:57<LordAro>`-static_cast<int>(ROAD_STOP_TRACKBIT)` should do it
15:57<LordAro>Samu: i'll allow you to PR that :p
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15:58<TrueBrain>LordAro: https://pasteboard.co/JIAv3gM.png better?
15:58<LordAro>TrueBrain: i think maybe, yes
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15:58<TrueBrain>or just black for the remainder of the text?
15:58<TrueBrain>or maybe only the error red
15:58<TrueBrain>hmm
15:58<LordAro>nah, that looks too much like an implicit order
15:59<Samu>i cant make more PRs
15:59<Samu>im afraid TrueBrain will not like it
15:59<TrueBrain>the world isn't black and white
15:59<TrueBrain>LordAro: https://pasteboard.co/JIAvGmI.png
15:59<LordAro>Samu: i'm giving you permission for this one :p
16:00<+glx>you can for this one, it's small and requested :)
16:00<LordAro>TrueBrain: hmm
16:00<LordAro>could be missed if the whole line isn't red, perhaps?
16:00*LordAro is not UI expert
16:00<+glx>all red is better I think
16:00<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8508: Fix #7656: destroying a tunnel/bridge now first removes the tracks for cost calculation https://git.io/JLxoE
16:00<frosch123>TrueBrain: if it helps, we have commands to push/pop colours
16:01<frosch123>so you can push colour, switch it, print some text, pop old colour
16:01<+glx>oh yes we always forget them
16:01<TrueBrain>frosch123: oeh, that is nice
16:01<TrueBrain>LordAro: https://pasteboard.co/JIAwtx9.png
16:01<TrueBrain>easier to miss why it is red, tbh
16:01<milek7>could it be yellow or something?
16:02<TrueBrain>so that comes back to why I prefixed it, a bit more in-the-eye
16:03<TrueBrain>too many of this text is already between () and []
16:03<+glx>I prefer prefix too
16:03<andythenorth>Can't read orders (too many things) (please improve) [too big to fix]
16:03<andythenorth>whoever added far end etc
16:03<andythenorth>needs to explain themselves :)
16:03<TrueBrain>so all red with prefix?
16:03<frosch123>just don't make everything read, otherwise you cannot see line selection
16:03<andythenorth>red is barely readable, contrast wise
16:03<andythenorth>so yeah just red on the angry part pls
16:04<andythenorth>angry / scary /s
16:04<TrueBrain>red is a terrible color, but I am not going to break consistency there :)
16:04<TrueBrain>frosch123: how do you do the color push? :D
16:04<+glx>red "(can't use)" as prefix then back to normal
16:05<TrueBrain>https://pasteboard.co/JIAyg6t.png
16:05<frosch123>STR_XYZ :Default color {PUSH_COLOUR}{RED}red text{POP_COLOUR} default color again
16:06<TrueBrain>I search for {PU, grr :D Tnx
16:06<andythenorth>^^ wfm TrueBrain
16:06<TrueBrain>works a lot better with selection too
16:07<TrueBrain>https://pasteboard.co/JIAyNQJ.png
16:07<TrueBrain>frosch123: funny, that is not currently used in english.txt, push/pop :D
16:07<andythenorth>ship
16:07<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8516: Fix #7972: show invalid orders to stations that don't accept your vehicle https://git.io/JLxcf
16:08<+glx>yeah it's mainly used by newgrf I think
16:08<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8516: Fix #7972: show invalid orders to stations that don't accept your vehicle https://git.io/JLxoH
16:08<TrueBrain>works perfectly here :)
16:09<frosch123>TrueBrain: it was added for newgrf or gs, can't remember
16:09<Samu>UpdateCompanyRoadInfrastructure(rt, GetRoadOwner(tile, rtt), -static_cast<int>(ROAD_STOP_TRACKBIT_FACTOR));
16:09<Samu>looks ugly
16:09<frosch123>but mostly to highlight stuff in lines, that change colours, when selected
16:09<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro updated pull request #8502: Codechange: Remove min/max functions in favour of STL variants https://git.io/JLNcq
16:10<Samu>UpdateCompanyRoadInfrastructure(rt, GetRoadOwner(tile, rtt), -(int)ROAD_STOP_TRACKBIT_FACTOR); won't this work? seems less ugly and visual studio doesn't complain
16:10<LordAro>Samu: less ugly, but (very technically) less correct
16:11<TrueBrain>lol, you can build an airport in year 0
16:11<TrueBrain>just no aircrafts
16:11<TrueBrain>ghehe
16:11<TrueBrain>expected all airports to have a minimum year of .. what .. 1918? :D
16:12<LordAro>Samu: https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/language/explicit_cast
16:12<frosch123>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/8502 <- when you click on the first "force-pushed" from 2 days ago. do you also get a completely unrelated diff?
16:13<TrueBrain>that link also picks up rebases, sadly
16:13<frosch123>ah, it's a rebase
16:13<frosch123>that explains it :)
16:13<TrueBrain>which is really annoying
16:13<TrueBrain>I know they have on their roadmap for Q1 to make this reviewing a bit easier
16:13<TrueBrain>but from what I read, they overcomplicated it a bit, but we will see :P
16:14<TrueBrain>(as author of a PR you can inform reviewers a new version is ready, even if it takes you 5 pushes, etc)
16:14<frosch123>does gh have developers in nl?
16:14<frosch123>can you apply?
16:14<TrueBrain>haha, no tnx :)
16:14<frosch123>aws?
16:14<TrueBrain>I have been suggested to apply at AWS several times now; not sure :)
16:15<+glx>imagine reviewing on phone, following the comments is a pain on phone
16:15<frosch123>pretty sure everyone things ottd gets stuff for free then
16:15<+glx>and reading the diff is worse
16:16<+glx>indentation is almost broken
16:16<TrueBrain>glx: GH has a feedback forum, which they seem to read
16:17<andythenorth>"working for the dread pirate Bezos"
16:17<andythenorth>"AWS: where smart people go to feel bad about themselves"
16:18<frosch123>andythenorth: poor guy is now only the second richest
16:18<TrueBrain>from what I understand, working for AWS is pretty fine
16:18<TrueBrain>it is Amazon that is mostly the issue
16:18<TrueBrain>(which might sound strange, but that is what people tell me :P)
16:18<andythenorth>Yeah I extrapolated from Amazon
16:19<andythenorth>Google SRE in europe is supposed to be horrible, is that where Y*xo was?
16:19<frosch123>i doubt tb wants to deliver parcels
16:19<TrueBrain>I am sure they don't want me to pay what I ask for delivering parcels, no :)
16:19<+glx>he'll deliver packets ;)
16:20<andythenorth>wow AWS Glassdoor is pretty positive
16:20<+michi_cc>Look what I wasted my time on today :p
16:20<TrueBrain>yeah, I am not kidding andythenorth :)
16:20<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc opened pull request #8518: [OSX] Replace FreeType by native glyph rasterization https://git.io/JLxK8
16:21<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc opened pull request #8519: [OSX] Render screen in full native resolution on HiDPI displays. https://git.io/JLxK4
16:21<+glx>wow
16:21<frosch123>google is funny. every second day youtube switches between two layouts for me. i think they have different versions on different servers, and sometimes i get one or the other
16:21<+glx>must be a lot of work michi_cc
16:21<andythenorth>I get that too
16:21<supermop_Home>TrueBrain i am sure if you get to work in the domes instead of a warehouse it's nice
16:21<TrueBrain>this is why michi_cc has been so quiet :D
16:21<andythenorth>michi_cc works, some of us talk
16:21*andythenorth shamed
16:21<LordAro>nice
16:22<+glx>andythenorth: you have something to test now ;)
16:22<+michi_cc>glx: Not that much actually, OSX is very similar to Win32 in this regard. Most time was spent getting the details right (e.g. floor/round/ceil ...)
16:22<+michi_cc>TrueBrain: If might also be because I'm not on vacation anymore :p
16:22<TrueBrain>:D
16:22<TrueBrain>wait, you guys have jobs?! :P
16:25<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 approved pull request #8502: Codechange: Remove min/max functions in favour of STL variants https://git.io/JLxKw
16:25<TrueBrain>CI passed?! Nice LordAro :D
16:25<TrueBrain>I will let you merge before I do mine, in case there is any conflict :P
16:25<LordAro>wait, it did?
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16:26<LordAro>i got an email saying it failed
16:26<TrueBrain>no, it did not :(
16:26<TrueBrain>sorryyyyyyy
16:26<frosch123>aw, why do i bother approving things, when the ci fails
16:26<TrueBrain>I just assumed because he approved :(
16:26<TrueBrain>wel, MacOS works at least \o/
16:27<TrueBrain>guess you found the one file that doesn't include stdafx.h or something? :D
16:27<LordAro>probably
16:27<andythenorth>wasm preview of 8518!
16:27<TrueBrain>andythenorth: that would be .. pointless :P
16:27<andythenorth>but WHY!?
16:27<+glx>#8508 will need to be reapproved after conflict is fixed ;)
16:27*andythenorth pulls
16:29<+michi_cc>With all these late changes coming in, we could do a 1.11-beta-announce livestream.
16:29<TrueBrain>and show off all the cool new features? :D
16:30<andythenorth>I miss livestreaming
16:30<andythenorth>it's been so long
16:30<andythenorth>if I learn the twitch timing, I can avoid talking over the feature :P
16:31<Samu>this is a terrible exercise for my brain
16:31<andythenorth>michi_cc quad size interface setting now in use :)
16:32<Samu>do i really got to fill in the PR form
16:32<Xaroth>yes
16:32*andythenorth testing 8519
16:32<+glx>Samu: it's easy, you just tell you fix the MSVC warning
16:32<+glx>no need to write a book in this case :)
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16:33<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened pull request #8520: Fix 0125892: Warning about unsigned unary minus https://git.io/JLxKx
16:33<Samu>probably failed at it
16:34<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #8519: [OSX] Render screen in full native resolution on HiDPI displays. https://git.io/JLxKj
16:35<supermop_Home>andythenorth hotel sprite need anything else?
16:35<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 approved pull request #8520: Fix 0125892: Warning about unsigned unary minus https://git.io/JLx6v
16:35<andythenorth>supermop_Home I need to PR it, and wait for consensus
16:36<andythenorth>someone will either just approve it, or we'll debate it for days and you'll be sad :P
16:37<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #8521: Change: always allow to click on the toolbar icons for road/rail/dock/airport https://git.io/JLx6I
16:37<TrueBrain>this is not done yet ^^ (hence, draft), but I wanted to build a preview to see what you guys think of a solution like this :)
16:41<andythenorth>so has the macOS build had twice the zoom level of other clients?
16:41*andythenorth unclear what other OS builds do
16:42<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #8520: Fix 0125892: Warning about unsigned unary minus https://git.io/JLxKx
16:43<+glx>andythenorth: because retina
16:44<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8032: Fix #7904: Don't use a timer for hundredth tick determination https://git.io/JLx6u
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16:45<andythenorth>I lack any useful unit to compare zoom levels across different OS / devices
16:46<+glx>it's not about zoom level I think, everything is basically double resolution on retina
16:46<andythenorth>it's 4 pixels to 1 yes
16:48<TrueBrain>frosch123: https://preview.openttd.org/pr8521/ <- this is somewhat what I had in mind. Start the game in year 0 of so for best result. I still want to add something to indicate why the build-station etc are disabled
16:49<TrueBrain>well, and others ofc .. would love some feedback
16:50<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #8517: Codechange: Make void tiles flood edge tiles, instead of edge tiles flooding themselves https://git.io/JLxCt
16:50<andythenorth>michi_cc 8519 so far :)
16:50<andythenorth>....the default 1x UI zoom is unworkable, and would be better disabled if we want to go this route.
16:51<andythenorth>...the zoomed out map is remarkably more beautiful
16:51<andythenorth>...the FPS on a release build of 8519 is about 25% of the 1.10.2
16:51<+michi_cc>Well, you have 4x the pixels to render.
16:52<andythenorth>...the loss of one zoom in level is annoying to me as a newgrf author, but I doubt most players would care
16:52<+glx>yeah it's expected to be slower
16:52<andythenorth>yeah retina usually is
16:52<+michi_cc>glx: HiDPI in master renders like the old, old, old Win32 pixel doubler setting.
16:52<andythenorth>the handful of other games I play don't run in retina, but they're 3D
16:53<frosch123>TrueBrain: no idea what's different
16:53<+michi_cc>Well, I added an openttd.cfg-only setting for "unplayable". It's not really discoverable though :(
16:53<TrueBrain>frosch123: haha, sorry: toolbar icons are never disabled
16:53<frosch123>i need to read the diff to find out :p
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16:53<TrueBrain>so even in year 0, you can build road
16:54<TrueBrain>but you cannot build stations
16:54<TrueBrain>you can build canels
16:54<TrueBrain>but no docks
16:54<andythenorth>I guess to test the font PR I need to learn how to change the font?
16:54*andythenorth assumes
16:54<andythenorth>pixel font is pixel font
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16:59<supermop_Home>i never change the font myself
16:59<supermop_Home>tried to use Transport once, but its not a real complete font so the game didn't like it
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17:01<supermop_Home>don't really have any other font that i think would look better in the context of the game
17:01<frosch123>TrueBrain: looks good
17:01<frosch123>why is it a draft?
17:01<TrueBrain>because I want to fix a bit more :)
17:02<andythenorth>michi_cc I will test more tomorrow :)
17:02<TrueBrain>https://pasteboard.co/JIAV7qJW.png
17:02<TrueBrain>that is what I really wanted to do :)
17:02<+michi_cc>andythenorth: Just select Greek or Chinese or something as game language.
17:03<andythenorth>much unicode :)
17:04<andythenorth>ok fonts are very....sharp
17:04<andythenorth>high quality
17:04<andythenorth>I haven't tried the freetype replacement yet
17:07<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8521: Change: always allow to click on the toolbar icons for road/rail/dock/airport https://git.io/JLx6I
17:07<TrueBrain>now it is ready for review ^^ :D
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17:09<TrueBrain>wait, I might as well also remove the setting about this, I guess .. as that is totally pointless now I guess?
17:09<Samu>cyas goodnight
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17:09<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep updated pull request #8480: Multitile depots https://git.io/JL5Hh
17:11<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8521: Change: always allow to click on the toolbar icons for road/rail/dock/airport https://git.io/JLx6I
17:19<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8461: Feature: Permanent rivers https://git.io/JLxPR
17:19<TrueBrain>I really do not see the point of ^^; am I missing something?
17:19<TrueBrain>what do rivers have that sea doesn't?
17:20<frosch123>they are not on height level 0?
17:20<frosch123>you can only rebuild them with canals
17:20<frosch123>which people consider ugly
17:20<TrueBrain>it feels like this is the wrong solution to a different problem :P
17:20<LordAro>i'd be happy woth making rivers permanent without the setting, tbh
17:21<LordAro>with*
17:21<frosch123>TrueBrain: well, the "motivation" in that PR is not the usual motivation for that request
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17:21<TrueBrain>frosch123: yeah, I suspected as much :)
17:21<frosch123>usually the point is: rivers are the only thing in game, which you can destroy, but not restore
17:22<frosch123>everything else either grows back (houses), or you can build it
17:22<TrueBrain>okay, that is fair
17:22<TrueBrain>making rivers indestructible makes them one of the only items that are (industries being the other exception, I think)
17:22<TrueBrain>which feels like it jumps to the other side of the spectrum :)
17:22<frosch123>don't forget transmitters and lighthouses :)
17:22<TrueBrain>haha, fair :)
17:23<rptr_>poor rivers
17:23<TrueBrain>but rivers are much more disruptive
17:23<TrueBrain>isn't the issue just that the cost of destroying them is too low?
17:23<frosch123>TrueBrain: i am unsure about the current behavior of locks. they may or may not restore previous rivers, when removed
17:24<frosch123>TrueBrain: no, people complain about *accidentially* removing them (read: selective demolish :p)
17:24<TrueBrain>rivier is maintained
17:24<TrueBrain>haha, okay, so we are back to that being the more proper solution for this :D
17:24<frosch123>cost only works for small companies
17:24<TrueBrain>LordAro: how do you feel about it? As you mention you would want to add this without setting?
17:25<TrueBrain>frosch123: yeah, okay, cost is irrelevant if you are bigger, true
17:25<TrueBrain>can't we add in the landscape toolbar: build river?
17:26<TrueBrain>game-play wise a bit weird, I guess
17:26<frosch123>i think there was a patch for that
17:26<frosch123>noone liked it, can't remember why
17:26<TrueBrain>it supersedes canals, I guess :D
17:26<andythenorth>since when removing locks preserves rivers?
17:26<andythenorth>o
17:26<andythenorth>since always? :o
17:26<frosch123>probably "realism"
17:27<TrueBrain>andythenorth: all I did was start the game, place a lock, remove it
17:27*andythenorth every day is a school day
17:27<frosch123>andythenorth: i said, i don't know the state :p
17:27<TrueBrain>river was still there :)
17:27<milek7>hmm
17:27<milek7>dbg: [net] [server] could not start network: could not create listening socket
17:27<andythenorth>probably I misremember how I think it was
17:28<TrueBrain>removing canals is not possible :)
17:28<frosch123>TrueBrain: anyway, i also prefer "indestrucible rivers" over "player-built rivers"
17:28<frosch123>just subjective :)
17:28<TrueBrain>I just see inconsistent behaviour, that is all :)
17:28<TrueBrain>would mean you cannot terraform next to a river etc
17:28<TrueBrain>I expect a lot of people will not like that
17:28<frosch123>yes, they become long transmitters :p
17:29<frosch123>they can play without rivers
17:29<frosch123>or magic bulldozer
17:29<TrueBrain>it is one of those things I expect will become a setting you set off by default
17:29<TrueBrain>as it is just too disruptive for most people's way of playing
17:29<TrueBrain>but that is just a hunch
17:29<milek7>indestructible rivers logically also leads to indestructible sea?
17:30<TrueBrain>it is one of those: we should never have added them in the first place :P :P
17:30*andythenorth proposes modest proposal, modestly
17:31<andythenorth>remove rivers?
17:31<andythenorth>no wait
17:31<andythenorth>river building tool in normal game, move on?
17:31<andythenorth>I have just been replacing missing rivers with GarryG's massive selection of river objects
17:32<andythenorth>it's like 3 times in a game where I have removed a river and want to restore it
17:32<TrueBrain>I would almost suggest a "challenging" mode, where some rules of the game change: 1) you can only terraform N times per year, 2) removing rivers and sea is part of that terraform quota
17:32<andythenorth>GS :P
17:32<andythenorth>oh no, no callbacks
17:32<andythenorth>GS could manage the quota though
17:32<andythenorth>if I play a game for 100 years, I want to replace broken rivers like...what...3 times?
17:33<andythenorth>and it's a few tiles
17:33<andythenorth>so just river builder
17:33<andythenorth>only reason canals don't work are (1) ugly (2) can't build on slopes
17:33<TrueBrain>can ships go upstream on rivers?
17:34<andythenorth>in current game? yes
17:34<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep updated pull request #8480: Multitile depots https://git.io/JL5Hh
17:34<andythenorth>IRL? yes
17:34<TrueBrain>another solution might be, to make "river source blocks", which are indestructable
17:34<+glx>TrueBrain: or a dirt pile system, to raise land you need to dig somewhere else, and vice versa
17:34<TrueBrain>and that you can build "new rivers" from the source block, flow where-ever you like
17:34<andythenorth>TrueBrain like a minecraft water block?
17:34<TrueBrain>glx: I like that idea too :)
17:34<TrueBrain>andythenorth: yeah, kinda
17:34<andythenorth>canaltypes
17:34<TrueBrain>so if you destroy a river, you can build a new .. trench, I guess
17:34<TrueBrain>and it flows through it again, making it a river again
17:34<andythenorth>nice idea
17:35<TrueBrain>but if you do it in a random spot
17:35<TrueBrain>nothing happens
17:35<andythenorth>practically, having a newgrf option for 'choose your canal appearance' would solve 90% of it
17:35<TrueBrain>also means if you cut in the right place, a whole river can dry up, btw :P
17:35<andythenorth>and option to build rapids
17:36<TrueBrain>so I guess there are alternative solutions besides just making it indestructible; that seems to me to be the most gameplay invasive solution :P
17:38<andythenorth>but it can have a setting!
17:38<andythenorth>and we can add a regression test for the setting!
17:39<andythenorth>and let AIs test for it!
17:39<andythenorth>and GS!
17:39<andythenorth>and write a wiki page!
17:39<andythenorth>bad andythenorth
17:39<frosch123>TrueBrain: https://bugs.openttd.org/task/1884 <- hmm, i thought there were gui icons...
17:40<frosch123>oh wait... there is already an icon in scenario editor
17:40<frosch123>silly me
17:40*andythenorth wants a setting that turns Excel into Word, and another that makes it into Outlook
17:40<frosch123>i was looking for the old patch, just for the icon :p
17:40<TrueBrain>:D
17:41<frosch123>andythenorth: since when can ships cross river slopes?
17:41<frosch123>you have to build locks
17:41<andythenorth>yes
17:42<andythenorth>do we differ on meaning of 'upstream' or something else I wrote? :)
17:42<+glx>I think "upstream" was implicitely without building anything
17:43<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8461: Feature: Permanent rivers https://git.io/JLxXo
17:43<TrueBrain>I meant upstream on a slope
17:43<TrueBrain>I was not clear enough :D
17:44<andythenorth>yeah ships can't traverse rapids
17:44<andythenorth>needs a lock
17:44<TrueBrain>ah .. okay, that at least makes the canal + lock consistent
17:45<FLHerne>frosch123: re. examples -- I think they're useful for people learning NML, although the current ones aren't great
17:45<andythenorth>current examples, all I get from them is guilt that I haven't made them better
17:46*andythenorth should get a therapist :P
17:46<FLHerne>They're better than nothing
17:46<FLHerne>And since no-one else has improved them either, that means they're a positive contribution :p
17:46<andythenorth>I think it's hard to have an nml feature PR without an example
17:47<frosch123>hmm, industries are the only thing in game you can build but not destroy... do rich companies block other companies by encircling them with industries? :p
17:47<andythenorth>but maybe the regression tests work better for that
17:47<andythenorth>frosch123 interesting griefing idea
17:47<TrueBrain>frosch123: pretty sure that "buy land" is cheaper :P
17:47<andythenorth>next livestream, circular industry layouts
17:47<andythenorth>town-sized
17:47<TrueBrain>but yes, I might have put industries down in places people want to build :D
17:48<andythenorth>hmm
17:48<frosch123>andythenorth: haha, you should definitely have a firs industry with an enclosed but empty center
17:48<andythenorth>circular industry round a town, it can accept and produce various cargos, but taxes them
17:48<andythenorth>'tax'
17:49<andythenorth>frosch123 only if I can put a river in it
17:49<andythenorth>not a canal
17:50<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #8517: Codechange: Make void tiles flood edge tiles, instead of edge tiles flooding themselves https://git.io/JLxXd
17:51<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8063: Fix #8055: Always allow building any available roadtypes, even if there are no road vehicles available https://git.io/JLxXx
17:52<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #8521: Change: always allow to click on the toolbar icons for road/rail/dock/airport https://git.io/JLxXh
17:52<frosch123>that airport sprite is so unclear, i thought it was some graphics bug :)
17:52<frosch123>night
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17:53<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8521: Change: always allow to click on the toolbar icons for road/rail/dock/airport https://git.io/JLx6I
17:53<TrueBrain>LOL! Okay, that was a nice find :D
17:53<TrueBrain>oops :D
17:54<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8521: Change: always allow to click on the toolbar icons for road/rail/dock/airport https://git.io/JLx1t
17:54<TrueBrain>LordAro: is it okay if I merge, or will you update your STL min/max soon? :) (I can wait, really)
17:55<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #8517: Codechange: Make void tiles flood edge tiles, instead of edge tiles flooding themselves https://git.io/JLx1Y
17:56<TrueBrain>owh, that just cracked me up andythenorth :)
17:58<LordAro>TrueBrain: not sure i'll get to it tonight
17:58<+glx>I agree for the shores, it's the other stuff I don't understand
17:58<TrueBrain>glx: I really don't know why that last chunk :P
17:58<TrueBrain>LordAro: no worries; I will just wait, I came to realise .. there is no rush :)
17:59<TrueBrain>and the less conflicts you have, the less chance something is forgotten :D
17:59<andythenorth>I never tire of this https://e2d.964.myftpupload.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/NoPonyForYou.jpg
17:59<TrueBrain>glx: but yeah, abusing MP_VOID to silently be MP_WATER is a hack; not sure it is a bad hack btw .. but it is a hack for sure :)
17:59<TrueBrain>also, MP_VOID is only there in 2 of the 4 borders, if I am not mistaken
17:59<TrueBrain>the two south directions
18:00*andythenorth must to sleep
18:00<+glx>depends on freeform edges I think
18:01<andythenorth>or things will get...rong
18:01<andythenorth>bye
18:01<+glx>(not checked)
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18:01<TrueBrain>there is another setting influencing it, I believe
18:01<TrueBrain>wait, no freeform edges indeed
18:01<TrueBrain>that influence if there is an MP_VOID at all :P
18:02<Eddi|zuHause>there's always an MP_VOID, just freeform edges makes more of them
18:05<TrueBrain>with freeform edges, yes, but without it, I believe it was symmetrical or something weird
18:07<TrueBrain>euh, or the other way around .. ugh, it is a mess, that I remember :P
18:07<TrueBrain>if freeform-edges is on, x,0 and 0,y are made into a void
18:07<TrueBrain>opening up the code works better :D
18:07<TrueBrain>so the north border is fully MP_VOID with freeform
18:08<TrueBrain>this was to give the overhanging effect, I believe?
18:08<TrueBrain>as that border prevents you from seeing slopes, not?
18:08<+glx>it's for height calculation too IIRC
18:09<+glx>as it needs an adjacent tile
18:09<Eddi|zuHause>without freeform borders, you have MP_VOID only at the southern end, with freeform map you have also at northern border
18:09<TrueBrain>one of those weird quirks in OpenTTD :P
18:10<Eddi|zuHause>but the issue can only exist with freeform borders
18:10<TrueBrain>haha, funny, the places that make it MP_VOID are miles apart in the code
18:10<+glx>yes because non freeform is always an island
18:11<TrueBrain>north-border is done in map generators, south-border in InitializeLandscape
18:11<TrueBrain>that is not confusing at all :D
18:11<+glx>welcome to openttd source :)
18:12<TrueBrain>we should just remove the freeform as a setting honestly :P
18:12<TrueBrain>simpler code :D
18:14<TrueBrain>anyway, that brings us back to the PR, it is a hack to use MP_VOID for that, but I guess it kinda works
18:16<TrueBrain>just that last chunk, I cannot place .. meh .. I spend too much time deciphering his PRs :P
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18:34<+glx>after better reading the diff, I now understand the issue (but that really should be explained in the description)
18:34<TrueBrain>owh yes, he is terrible in explaining what is going on etc, which makes us spend waaaaayyyyyy too much time on reviews
18:34<TrueBrain>and you have to second guess EVERYTHING
18:35<+glx>basically edge tiles are supposed to self flood, but the check is too strict and most of them don't flood
18:35<TrueBrain>haha, well, that is a completely different story indeed :)
18:36<+glx>and giving flood power to MP_VOID solves it nicely indeed
18:36<TrueBrain>- if (!IsValidTile(dest)) continue;
18:36<TrueBrain>+ if (dest >= MapSize()) continue;
18:36<TrueBrain>this .. this is just weird
18:36<+glx>yeah that's part I don't get
18:37<TrueBrain>well, IsValidTile returns false on MP_VOID
18:37<TrueBrain>but I don't see why that is a problem
18:37<TrueBrain>at the very least, it should have been a comment
18:40<TrueBrain>feels like he fiddled till it worked
18:40<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Milek7 updated pull request #8391: RFC: Feature: Public key company authorization https://git.io/JLnig
18:40<+glx>as always
18:42<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Milek7 commented on pull request #8391: RFC: Feature: Public key company authorization https://git.io/JLxD1
18:45<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #8517: Codechange: Make void tiles flood edge tiles, instead of edge tiles flooding themselves https://git.io/JLxDb
18:45<TrueBrain>milek7: how we say in Dutch: "lekker bezig!", which is a nice compliment :)
18:45<+glx>may help others to understand too :)
18:48<+glx>but really we should not have to read the diff to get the problem
18:54<TrueBrain>someone is repackaging other's people NewGRF work and uploading it to BaNaNaS .. most of it valid by license, and by-passes our "are you the author?" question, as it is a repack.. it might not be invalid, but sure it isn't by the spirit
18:55<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro dismissed a review for pull request #8502: Codechange: Remove min/max functions in favour of STL variants https://git.io/JLxKw
18:55<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro updated pull request #8502: Codechange: Remove min/max functions in favour of STL variants https://git.io/JLNcq
18:56<TrueBrain>YOU FORGOT ONE LordAro ?! :o :o
18:56<TrueBrain>HOW DARE YOU!
18:56<LordAro>D:
18:56<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #8502: Codechange: Remove min/max functions in favour of STL variants https://git.io/JLxyr
18:57<TrueBrain>what is the worst that can happen
18:57<TrueBrain>:D
18:58<TrueBrain>if you want to install a coinminer in OpenTTD, these are the PRs to do that with :)
18:59<TrueBrain>awh, it fails :(
18:59<LordAro>aw
18:59<LordAro>what did i miss this time?
18:59<TrueBrain>win32_s and xaudio2_s
18:59<TrueBrain>can't blame you for those :)
18:59<TrueBrain>shall we just remove them instead?
19:00<TrueBrain>you also seen " Warning: ..\src\autoreplace_gui.cpp(420): warning C4267: 'initializing': conversion from 'size_t' to 'EngineID', possible loss of data" ? Not sure it is your PR
19:00<+glx>yeah I was thinking about that
19:01<TrueBrain>right, I should be in bed; night :)
19:01<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro dismissed a review for pull request #8502: Codechange: Remove min/max functions in favour of STL variants https://git.io/JLxyr
19:02<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro updated pull request #8502: Codechange: Remove min/max functions in favour of STL variants https://git.io/JLNcq
19:02<LordAro>i'll take a look
19:03<+glx>maybe it is, as the warning is not in master
19:04<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro updated pull request #8502: Codechange: Remove min/max functions in favour of STL variants https://git.io/JLNcq
19:04<LordAro>yeah, it's a std::min line
19:04<LordAro>add casts until the warnings go away
19:11<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro updated pull request #8502: Codechange: Remove min/max functions in favour of STL variants https://git.io/JLNcq
19:12<TrueBrain>Now it is glx' turn to approve :p
19:13<+glx>I'll wait for CI first :)
19:14<TrueBrain>Noooo, that is against the flow!! :p
19:17<+glx>more warnings, and still fails :) (town_cmd.cpp)
19:19<LordAro>D:
19:19<LordAro>the differing behaviour is really quite interesting
19:19<+glx>maybe I can just try to fix them locally
19:22<LordAro>heh, probably
19:22<LordAro>let me suffer a bit more first
19:22<LordAro>for one, the line number for town_cmd.cpp doesn't match
19:22<LordAro>error is 3332, std::min is 3335
19:22<LordAro>and both arguments are the same type
19:24<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro updated pull request #8502: Codechange: Remove min/max functions in favour of STL variants https://git.io/JLNcq
19:30<LordAro>glx: ok, i give in
19:30<LordAro>can you take a look?
19:32<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Milek7 opened pull request #8522: Codechange: Use access __attribute__ to silence warnings in GCC https://git.io/JLx9Q
19:33<+glx>yeah I don't see where 3332 comes, it's 3306
19:34<+glx>may explain why you can't fix it ;)
19:35<LordAro>doesn't help
19:36<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8522: Codechange: Use access __attribute__ to silence warnings in GCC https://git.io/JLxHe
19:36<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Milek7 commented on pull request #8522: Codechange: Use access __attribute__ to silence warnings in GCC https://git.io/JLxHf
19:37<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8522: Codechange: Use access __attribute__ to silence warnings in GCC https://git.io/JLxHI
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19:40<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8522: Codechange: Use access __attribute__ to silence warnings in GCC https://git.io/JLxHl
19:40<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #8522: Codechange: Use access __attribute__ to silence warnings in GCC https://git.io/JLx9Q
19:51<milek7>urgh
19:51<milek7>now I created more warnings "unknown attribute 'access' ignored"
19:51<milek7>:(
19:51<milek7>(in older compilers)
19:53<LordAro>ah crap
19:53<LordAro>take GCC version into account in the macro pls
20:00<+glx>ok with a simple change it compiles
20:01<+glx>now the 224 warnings (many are just langfiles)
20:01<Eddi|zuHause>all changes are simple. just a bunch of letters :p
20:04<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Milek7 opened pull request #8523: Codechange: Check if access __attribute__ is supported before trying to use it. https://git.io/JLxHj
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20:42<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Milek7 updated pull request #8391: RFC: Feature: Public key company authorization https://git.io/JLnig
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20:50<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #8502: Codechange: Remove min/max functions in favour of STL variants https://git.io/JLNcq
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21:11<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #8502: Codechange: Remove min/max functions in favour of STL variants https://git.io/JLx5S
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---Logclosed Fri Jan 08 00:00:45 2021