--- | Log | opened Sun Jan 10 00:00:48 2021 |
01:39 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac opened pull request #8552: Feature: Prevent vehicles to unload cargo in implicit stops in cargodist mode if the cargo is not accepted in such station https://git.io/JLhF7 |
01:46 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac updated pull request #8552: Feature: Prevent vehicles to unload cargo in implicit stops in cargodist mode if the cargo is not accepted in such station https://git.io/JLhF7 |
02:09 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac updated pull request #8552: Feature: Prevent vehicles to unload cargo in implicit stops in cargodist mode if the cargo is not accepted in such station https://git.io/JLhF7 |
02:21 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac updated pull request #8552: Feature: Prevent vehicles to unload cargo in implicit stops in cargodist mode if the cargo is not accepted in such station https://git.io/JLhF7 |
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02:53 | <andythenorth> | yo |
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03:43 | <TrueBrain> | wow, what a PR. Good motivations, description, and code looks good to me .. lol, what is happening :D |
03:45 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8552: Feature: Prevent vehicles to unload cargo in implicit stops in cargodist mode if the cargo is not accepted in such station https://git.io/JLhx5 |
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04:12 | <andythenorth> | livery_types then with labels and name strings |
04:12 | <andythenorth> | such lol |
04:13 | <andythenorth> | liivery_type subtypes also |
04:15 | <andythenorth> | common livery_type label scheme |
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04:54 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Kuhnovic commented on pull request #8550: Feature: "Remove all industries" button in scenario editor https://git.io/JLhhQ |
04:54 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i'm pretty sure that's the main reason we SHOULDN'T have such a property |
04:57 | <andythenorth> | it wouldn't be just a property at that point |
04:57 | <andythenorth> | it would be a newgrf feature |
04:58 | <andythenorth> | with action 0 and so forth |
04:58 | * | andythenorth is just following one route to logical conclusion |
04:58 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i'm not awake enogh to follow that conclusion |
04:59 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Kuhnovic updated pull request #8550: Feature: "Remove all industries" button in scenario editor https://git.io/JLhwv |
05:00 | <andythenorth> | if liveries are a concept that exists beyond a specific vehicle |
05:00 | <andythenorth> | then they need an entity to define them |
05:01 | <andythenorth> | 'if' |
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05:14 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Kuhnovic commented on pull request #8550: Feature: "Remove all industries" button in scenario editor https://git.io/JLhjX |
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05:51 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #8390: Add: [AI/GS] Missing water related functions and objects https://git.io/JLnqJ |
06:08 | <Samu> | weird diff |
06:12 | <Samu> | glx isn't around t.t https://i.imgur.com/KwYcWCX.png |
06:12 | <Samu> | the generated log file is adding extra lines |
06:13 | <Samu> | on stuff that wasn't changed, because of ";" |
06:16 | <LordAro> | Samu: aha, that's a newline character (ish) in cmake |
06:16 | <LordAro> | convert your stuff to use ':' like everything else |
06:16 | <LordAro> | or that stuff |
06:16 | <LordAro> | whatever |
06:16 | <Samu> | you mean, a new PR changing all ; into : |
06:17 | <LordAro> | well, in that output, yes |
06:17 | <LordAro> | in both the regression AIs and the expected output |
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06:26 | <frosch123> | i don't get 8552... doesn't that completely break cargodist? |
06:26 | <frosch123> | the whole point of feeder services is to have intermediate stations that do not accept a cargo |
06:28 | <TrueBrain> | I think this is one of these things that confuses new players mostly, that implicit all of a sudden can get cargo, from how I understand it |
06:28 | <TrueBrain> | but I never played with cargodist, so what do I know :D :) |
06:28 | <frosch123> | well, that is already solved now, by changing the default settings |
06:28 | <TrueBrain> | non-stop is default now? Yeah, I guess that solves the issue too ;) |
06:29 | <frosch123> | i think 8552 tries to turn non-non-stop to behave like non-stop, which is entirely pointless? |
06:30 | <TrueBrain> | depends on the reason why implicits were created I guess |
06:30 | <+michi_cc> | Apparently cargodist will create a link if e.g. a coal train auto-stops at a pax-only station and will forcefully use it to transfer cargo between trains (that what I understood at least, never use no-non-stop orders myself). |
06:30 | <TrueBrain> | is it done for cargodist? |
06:30 | <frosch123> | implicit orders are for cargodist, yes |
06:30 | <TrueBrain> | (I was honestly confused by the implicit orders, what they do and why they show up :D But I am a newbie player in those regards :P) |
06:31 | <TrueBrain> | so yeah, that invalidates the PR :) |
06:31 | <andythenorth> | everyone is confused by implicit orders |
06:31 | <andythenorth> | but no better way was found :) |
06:31 | <frosch123> | TrueBrain: without cargodist, the player decides where vehicles load, unload or transfer cargos |
06:31 | <frosch123> | with cargodist, cargodist decides where to load, unload or transfer |
06:31 | <TrueBrain> | I guess that is why I was confused what they did, the implicit orders :D |
06:31 | <frosch123> | for that cargodist has to know where vehicles stop, so it needs implicit orders |
06:31 | <frosch123> | to track intermediate stations |
06:40 | <Samu> | is this a good commit name? Fix: No semicolon in regression output |
06:40 | <Samu> | i'm unsure how to describe |
06:41 | <Samu> | CMake uses ; to create newline |
06:41 | <LordAro> | Samu: "Fix: Remove semicolons from regression output" |
06:41 | <LordAro> | technically speaking, the cmake script should be escaping the ';' |
06:41 | <LordAro> | but that's a separate problem |
06:41 | <Samu> | i think we should wait for glx |
06:42 | <Samu> | see what he has to say |
06:42 | <Samu> | but ill make the PR anyway, just in case it's needed |
06:43 | <Samu> | just dont merge asap before glx has a say |
06:43 | <LordAro> | lol, sure |
06:43 | <TrueBrain> | LordAro < glx, good to know :) |
06:43 | <LordAro> | :c |
06:44 | <Samu> | no, it's because it's due to a change yesterday night |
06:44 | <Samu> | glx created |
06:44 | <TrueBrain> | I am totally fine with LordAro < glx, it is not a complain, just a mere observation :D |
06:45 | <LordAro> | wow. |
06:45 | <TrueBrain> | <3 |
06:45 | <LordAro> | :p |
06:45 | <TrueBrain> | sorry, that was just too easy :P |
06:45 | <LordAro> | oh, i quite agree |
06:45 | <TrueBrain> | :D |
06:45 | <LordAro> | anyway, what needs reviewing/rebasing? |
06:45 | <TrueBrain> | scroll patch of yours! |
06:46 | <LordAro> | ah yes |
06:46 | <TrueBrain> | https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/milestone/3 <- basically, that :) |
06:47 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #8552: Feature: Prevent vehicles to unload cargo in implicit stops in cargodist mode if the cargo is not accepted in such station https://git.io/JLjJ2 |
06:48 | <frosch123> | do we have any cargodist expert left? |
06:48 | <TrueBrain> | I promote michi_cc |
06:48 | <frosch123> | i misread 8552 as changing the station acceptance rule. but it actually changes the input to the cargoflow planner |
06:48 | <+michi_cc> | I'm not a cargodIst expert at all. |
06:49 | <frosch123> | so, my initial confusion was wrong, but i still do not know enough about that code :) |
06:49 | <TrueBrain> | I never understood cargodist, sadly enough |
06:49 | <TrueBrain> | same with cargodest |
06:50 | <+michi_cc> | I can tell you about cargodest; how I envision it to work when I finish it in 100 years :P |
06:50 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened pull request #8553: Fix: Remove semicolons from regression output https://git.io/JLjJP |
06:50 | <TrueBrain> | michi_cc: haha :D |
06:50 | * | andythenorth votes don't touch cargodist, back away |
06:50 | <TrueBrain> | is that before or after the economy revamp Celestar is working on? |
06:50 | <+michi_cc> | Hey, YACD is a patch, it's not vaporware :) |
06:51 | <frosch123> | there was a svn branch for economy :p |
06:51 | <TrueBrain> | there are PDFs for economy |
06:51 | <TrueBrain> | like .. real papers |
06:51 | <LordAro> | this->vscroll->GetCount() - this->vscroll->GetCapacity() |
06:51 | <LordAro> | have i forgotten how scrollbars work, or is this always negative? |
06:52 | <TrueBrain> | what does GetCount do? |
06:52 | <TrueBrain> | total items in the list? |
06:52 | <TrueBrain> | as in that case, no |
06:52 | <LordAro> | ah right |
06:52 | <TrueBrain> | well, it might |
06:52 | <frosch123> | TrueBrain: yeah, sadly noone of them notices the fundamental problem: if you do not have enough money in ottd, you have to wait for money to pile up. so "trying to make the game harder" usually ends up with "making the game more boring by adding waiting times" |
06:52 | <TrueBrain> | but these functions really confused me LordAro |
06:52 | * | andythenorth never understood 'game needs to be harder' |
06:53 | * | andythenorth is quite stupid though |
06:53 | <TrueBrain> | frosch123: for me it always read that they confused "fun to play" with "has to be realistic" |
06:53 | <frosch123> | andythenorth: do you remember that multiplayer ncg game with pikka |
06:53 | <frosch123> | pikka was so interested to see people play with his set |
06:53 | <andythenorth> | I remember a few |
06:54 | <frosch123> | but everyone was just frustrated that there was barely enough money for one player to build something |
06:54 | <frosch123> | while the rest was idling for two hours |
06:54 | <andythenorth> | oh yes |
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06:54 | <andythenorth> | those MP GS games massively influenced my design choices |
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06:54 | <andythenorth> | FIRS got redesigned to scale cargo output easily |
06:54 | <TrueBrain> | LordAro: if GetCount does return the amount of items in the list, maybe a GetItemCount would be a better name, tbh :P |
06:55 | <frosch123> | iirc pikka added a setting to his set after that: divide all costs by 8 or so |
06:55 | <andythenorth> | and I tried to keep the needle of vehicle cost + power pointing at 'you can make progress without waiting' |
06:55 | <+michi_cc> | Good multi-player design goals are probably very orthogonal to good single-player design goals. |
06:55 | <andythenorth> | game needs to be richer, not harder |
06:55 | <andythenorth> | just my £0.02 |
06:55 | <andythenorth> | I just played a 160 years of FIRS Steeltown because there's enough depth to it |
06:56 | <andythenorth> | being 'harder' wouldn't have kept me playing |
06:56 | * | andythenorth needs to start a new game |
06:57 | <andythenorth> | the next 2 weeks will contain a lot of questions about JGRPP |
06:59 | <reldred> | There's ways to make a game more difficult, beyond just making everything more expensive. For instance I like the depth that can be added by well designed train sets; deciding what branch of a tech tree to go down, I like super tall maps with heighmaps that introduce varieties of regions with different topology, the chalenges you then faced by trying to traverse that (One of the reasons I really want to see cliffs, more object |
06:59 | <reldred> | obstacles) |
06:59 | <reldred> | God what's JGR up to now andythenorth? I hadn't really seen anything have I missed some news? |
06:59 | <andythenorth> | I don't know |
07:00 | <andythenorth> | I have tried JGRPP before, and I find it quite overwhelming |
07:00 | <andythenorth> | but there are too many reasons to switch |
07:00 | <reldred> | Yeah JGRPP is my regular, I'm particularly fond of custom bridgeheads and things like the tweaked alpine tree growth. |
07:00 | <andythenorth> | playing it requires pretty much constant questions |
07:01 | <andythenorth> | but fortunately the discord is almost entirely JGRPP |
07:01 | <andythenorth> | I keep asking newgrf design questions in discord and the answers are constantly 'solved in JGRPP' |
07:02 | <andythenorth> | apparently all the livery subtypes crap is fixed |
07:02 | <reldred> | Yeah that doesn't sound constructive. |
07:02 | <andythenorth> | I think it's fine no? |
07:02 | <reldred> | No I mean just saying 'jgr fixed it' and not really helping any further. |
07:02 | <Timberwolf> | The problem with "harder" is most of the obvious options add linear difficulty to a game with an exponential growth curve. |
07:03 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #8552: Feature: Prevent vehicles to unload cargo in implicit stops in cargodist mode if the cargo is not accepted in such station https://git.io/JLjUZ |
07:03 | <reldred> | Yeah see I'm not interested in 'harder', I'm interested in challenges and solving them |
07:03 | <reldred> | Rather than just a race against the time/money clock. |
07:03 | <Timberwolf> | You still eventually hit the elbow where everything you do brings in >1 times what it cost. Making that 1.0001 instead of 1.1 just means more time spent in that "waiting for trains to arrive" stage of the game. |
07:05 | <andythenorth> | it's unlikely to go well, asking "how do I do X in vanilla" to people who are like "wtf are you talking about, that is solved?" :) |
07:05 | <andythenorth> | anyway |
07:05 | * | andythenorth tries it |
07:05 | <Timberwolf> | In original TTD and Locomotion, the real difficulty is getting overwhelmed by busywork on a large network. |
07:05 | <andythenorth> | +1 |
07:05 | <reldred> | I mean I geuss it depends how you play it? I mean you can setup a low cost low risk pax route between two cities and put it on fast forward and hit 2050 with millions in the bank |
07:05 | <reldred> | that's a pretty boring way to play |
07:06 | <reldred> | I mean I consider anything other than alpinist/maxheight255/very rough terrain to be basically cheating. But that's me, |
07:06 | <reldred> | It's a sandbox game. |
07:06 | <Timberwolf> | For me, the difficulty is not the money but the inevitable "I need 100 trains to arrive here every minute and... er... HOW" |
07:06 | <andythenorth> | the scarce commodity is 'throughput' |
07:07 | <andythenorth> | not 'money' |
07:07 | <frosch123> | i liked playing settlers 1 in the 90s. the main difficulty was to make the weird transport mechanics deal with the vast amount of cargo. but i also knew people, who just left the game running for 5 hours unattended, until they had enough stuff produced |
07:07 | <Timberwolf> | Which gets more challenging (and "fun") on rugose terrain with many obstacles. |
07:07 | <andythenorth> | frosch123 apparently https://www.simpleguide.net/sg/serflings.jsf |
07:08 | <Timberwolf> | frosch123: I have a friend who plays Factorio like that sometimes. |
07:08 | <Timberwolf> | "I need 18 million green circuits, I'll just leave it running overnight" |
07:11 | <reldred> | I mean you're never going to stop someone playing that way if they want. Even if you have some sort of random disasters system to keep people engaged people will demand the ability to turn it off (I mean I probably would, I make life hard enough for myself in other areas). |
07:14 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/team] frosch123 commented on issue #123: [de_DE] Translator access request https://git.io/JLhB2 |
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07:20 | <Samu> | is this CMake error that kind of error that shouldn't happen? https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/runs/1676425277?check_suite_focus=true#step:8:1855 |
07:22 | <LordAro> | that is a bit weird |
07:23 | <Eddi|zuHause> | you're also never going to stop people building point-to-point routes in openttd, instead of complex networks |
07:28 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro updated pull request #8006: Codechange: Increase scrollbar length limit to UINT_MAX and make their length properly unsigned https://git.io/Jv8Vk |
07:28 | <reldred> | Yup |
07:28 | <LordAro> | pretty sure that's incorrect in places |
07:28 | <reldred> | it's a sandbox game, people are going to play it however they want and however hard they want. |
07:29 | <reldred> | some people play almost entirely for aesthetics and efficiency or profits are entirely on the backseat |
07:31 | <TrueBrain> | LordAro: am I correct to assume you did not process all feedback in #8006 yet? |
07:31 | <LordAro> | ah, no |
07:31 | <LordAro> | that was just a rebase |
07:31 | <TrueBrain> | k :) |
07:46 | <LordAro> | TrueBrain: i'm thinking that a simple "underflow safe unsigned subtract" function might be a good idea |
07:46 | <LordAro> | given the amount of times i've written it (probably incorrectly in places) |
07:47 | <TrueBrain> | that would be even better, yes :) |
07:47 | <TrueBrain> | generalizing hard-to-read-statements is always a good thing :D |
07:47 | <TrueBrain> | frosch123: https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/8032 <- with this latest change, do you see any additional issues with this PR? |
07:49 | <LordAro> | TrueBrain: now the hard bit is finding all of them |
07:50 | <TrueBrain> | haha, yes |
07:50 | <TrueBrain> | ": 0" is a give-away :P |
07:53 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i think technically "0-1" in unsigned is still considered an "overflow". and "underflow" is used in floating point contexts where very small numbers are rounded to 0 |
07:54 | <TrueBrain> | you remember when we talked about this channel being often overly pedantic with no real added value? :P :D |
07:54 | <Eddi|zuHause> | that's an occupational hazard :p |
07:54 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 approved pull request #8032: Fix #7904: Don't use a timer for hundredth tick determination https://git.io/JLjOp |
07:54 | <TrueBrain> | tnx frosch123 ! |
07:56 | <frosch123> | https://github.com/OpenTTD/BaNaNaS/pull/74 <- no need to be lonely, there is also stuff for you :) |
07:56 | <andythenorth> | TrueBrain we talked about that?! Please, give me exact times and dates |
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07:56 | <TrueBrain> | frosch123: :D |
07:56 | <TrueBrain> | andythenorth: FU |
07:56 | <TrueBrain> | <3 |
07:58 | <andythenorth> | I had a bet on how you would answer |
07:58 | <andythenorth> | I was off by a single character |
07:59 | <TrueBrain> | happy I did not disapoint |
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08:06 | * | andythenorth takes all the questions to discord |
08:06 | <frosch123> | yay, i sent my first mail from the new mail account :p |
08:06 | <andythenorth> | so many questions |
08:06 | <TrueBrain> | frosch123: gratz! |
08:06 | <TrueBrain> | how does that make you feel? |
08:07 | <frosch123> | (it's so weird that credentialy of receiving and sending are independent) |
08:07 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8032: Fix #7904: Don't use a timer for hundredth tick determination https://git.io/JvruE |
08:07 | <TrueBrain> | I had that too the other day :P |
08:08 | <Eddi|zuHause> | a propos, when i pushed the first time in a while, github sent me a "deprecation warning" email, should i worry? |
08:08 | <Eddi|zuHause> | about logging in with password |
08:08 | <reldred> | i think they're converting over to key based auth? |
08:09 | <reldred> | which tbh kinda concerns me considering there's whole classes of malware now that focus entirely on compromising keys after AWS did similar |
08:10 | <TrueBrain> | a key has a selected amount of permissions; so the malware no longer gets full access if it succeeds ;) |
08:11 | <TrueBrain> | security is never about completely removing any risk; it is merely about reducing it to an acceptable and/or manageable level :) |
08:11 | <reldred> | dunno, I memorize long passwords and would prefer to keep doing that. |
08:11 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 approved pull request #8553: Fix: Remove semicolons from regression output https://git.io/JLj3X |
08:20 | <andythenorth> | fuck me |
08:20 | <andythenorth> | I am a big fan of having patch packs as experiments |
08:20 | <TrueBrain> | we talked about, and we kinda have to decline your offer |
08:20 | <andythenorth> | it really is the way forward |
08:21 | <andythenorth> | but this template stuff, is absolutely non-working |
08:21 | <andythenorth> | it destroys existing trains |
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08:26 | <andythenorth> | it has 'use depot' |
08:26 | <andythenorth> | oops wrong |
08:27 | <LordAro> | reldred: https://xkcd.com/1172/ etc |
08:28 | <reldred> | Lol |
08:31 | <andythenorth> | this would be the worst livestream ever |
08:31 | <andythenorth> | andythenorth tries to template-replace trains |
08:31 | <andythenorth> | currently I am at 'wtf does it delete other trains for?' |
08:31 | <andythenorth> | how is that useful? |
08:31 | <andythenorth> | my face :P |
08:34 | <Timberwolf> | This reminds me of the best excuse I ever heard for broken workflows, about 15 years ago when I was integrating some code which had been generated by an enthusiastic (but slightly lax on testing) developer in the Frankfurt office of place I worked at the time. |
08:34 | <Timberwolf> | Sent an e-mail "I clicked on A then B, and got this crash". |
08:34 | <Timberwolf> | Reply: "Germans would never click on things in that order." |
08:37 | <reldred> | andythenorth: from my use of it you make templates, assign the templates to groups, and it auto replaces the trains in the group with the template. I didn’t really have too many problems with it. |
08:37 | <andythenorth> | it absolutely just deletes trains |
08:37 | <andythenorth> | I could video it doing it :) |
08:37 | <andythenorth> | you have 4 trains in depot, set the templater going, now you have 3 |
08:37 | <reldred> | Huh, I dunno. I mean I use your sets almost exclusively. |
08:47 | <Samu> | the regression savegame map doesn't have rivers, there's no way to test positive for IsRiverTile |
08:47 | <Samu> | what do I do? |
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08:56 | <LordAro> | Samu: checking that it tests negative in various places will do half the work |
08:57 | <LordAro> | difficult to add rivers to such an old map really, we'd need to create a new map |
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08:59 | <Samu> | i iterated all tiles, just for the sake of it, returned false for every tile |
08:59 | <Samu> | now im reducing to just a few tiles |
09:00 | <+glx> | yeah, but a valid test should return true in some cases |
09:00 | <+glx> | as in really checking the function works |
09:17 | <Samu> | do you mind if i change the TileArea rectangle where the water tests are done in the map? |
09:17 | <Samu> | i found a better spot |
09:18 | <Samu> | it tests over a ship depot, a dock, a canal tile, then ground and sea |
09:18 | <Samu> | the current rectangle is just ground and sea |
09:19 | <+glx> | if there is more different stuff it's better I think |
09:19 | <+glx> | and you can test all functions on the same area |
09:20 | <+glx> | but you need to carefully check the result is correct |
09:21 | <Samu> | oh, good idea |
09:30 | <Samu> | testing this area [img]https://i.imgur.com/CTIs4jE.png[/img] |
09:30 | <Samu> | let me get the current area |
09:32 | <Eddi|zuHause> | am i blind? i can't find a .h file that declares SndPlayTileFx |
09:33 | <Eddi|zuHause> | ah, right. i'm blind |
09:36 | <Samu> | current area: [img]https://i.imgur.com/60eptN9.png[/img] |
09:37 | <+glx> | indeed the "new" area seems a better test case |
09:37 | <Samu> | too bad the buoy is deleted by the time it tests |
09:38 | <Samu> | there's always that care IsWaterTile on the buoy returning false |
09:38 | <Samu> | case* |
09:39 | <+glx> | you can update the buoy stuff |
09:40 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #8444: Feature: Close adjacent level crossings as if they were one large crossing https://git.io/JLjCZ |
09:41 | <+glx> | like depot and dock are removed then rebuilt |
09:41 | <+glx> | you can rebuild the buoy too |
09:43 | <+glx> | and the lock |
09:45 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z updated pull request #8444: Feature: Close adjacent level crossings as if they were one large crossing https://git.io/JLDFp |
09:46 | <andythenorth> | is it naptime? |
09:47 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 merged pull request #8553: Fix: Remove semicolons from regression output https://git.io/JLjJP |
09:48 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z updated pull request #8444: Feature: Close adjacent level crossings as if they were one large crossing https://git.io/JLDFp |
09:48 | <Eddi|zuHause> | andythenorth: is that before or after lunch? |
09:49 | <andythenorth> | uncertain |
09:49 | <+glx> | ahah rebuilding buoy and dock changes some timings and affect vehicle age output |
09:50 | <Eddi|zuHause> | so... crossing dingdingding. currently happens in two ways: a) a crossing with no PBS signals nearby dings when it is activated, b) a crossing with PBS signals dings when the train approaches |
09:50 | <Eddi|zuHause> | should it always be case b)? |
09:51 | <+glx> | I vote b) |
09:51 | <+glx> | but maybe not easy |
09:52 | <+glx> | but dingding means closing for me |
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09:52 | <Eddi|zuHause> | well, currently, a PBS reservation closes the crossing, but doesn't ding |
09:53 | <+glx> | for me if it's closed it should ding |
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09:54 | <openttd_1> | hi! |
09:54 | <+glx> | ding from start of closing until fully open |
09:55 | <Eddi|zuHause> | that sounds... annoying |
09:55 | <Eddi|zuHause> | also, i don't think the current sound effect can loop |
09:55 | <+glx> | but realistic ;) |
09:56 | <openttd_1> | I would like to do some data analysis on the ongoing game, I'm looking for some API of the game which could let me access the data of my busses , trains, other stuff which i costing money |
09:56 | <openttd_1> | in the end I would like to create a sort of statistical dashboard |
09:56 | <openttd_1> | ( just for fun ) |
09:57 | <Eddi|zuHause> | openttd_1: a GameScript that gathers the data and outputs it through either the debug console or adminport |
09:58 | <openttd_1> | cool, so it's doable! |
10:00 | <openttd_1> | I thought that GameScripts was only for AI |
10:01 | <+glx> | no they are similar, but very different |
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10:14 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z updated pull request #8444: Feature: Close adjacent level crossings as if they were one large crossing https://git.io/JLDFp |
10:29 | <Samu> | was wondering if I could include some aqueduct building into the area |
10:30 | <Samu> | guess i rather not |
10:30 | <+glx> | will be a "big" bridge |
10:30 | <Samu> | yes, then the area becomes too large, too many tiles printing |
10:31 | <+glx> | and bridge should not have effect on tile tests I think |
10:32 | <Samu> | the IsWaterTile test |
10:33 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #8390: Add: [AI/GS] Missing water related functions and objects https://git.io/JLnqJ |
10:35 | <Samu> | those age tests changed |
10:37 | <Samu> | i verified the water, coast, canal tests, and yeah... they are "correct" |
10:37 | <Samu> | at least, for what AI makers have to deal with |
10:38 | <Samu> | ship depot is a Water tile, lock is a water tile |
10:38 | <Samu> | but buoy is not |
10:38 | <Samu> | coasts aren't water tiles |
10:39 | <Samu> | even if they're halfcoasts |
10:42 | <Samu> | lock isn't a canal |
10:42 | <Samu> | which is another issue |
10:42 | <Samu> | we have to deal with |
10:43 | <Samu> | it's not straight forward what is what when dealing with water |
10:52 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #8390: Add: [AI/GS] Missing water related functions and objects https://git.io/JLj8n |
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11:02 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z updated pull request #8444: Feature: Close adjacent level crossings as if they were one large crossing https://git.io/JLDFp |
11:05 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #8444: Feature: Close adjacent level crossings as if they were one large crossing https://git.io/JLj4T |
11:10 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 opened pull request #8554: Allow NewGRF vehicles to query the track-type NewGRF about the current track-type https://git.io/JLj43 |
11:11 | <andythenorth> | o_O |
11:12 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #7000: Some NewGRF variables concerning railtypes https://git.io/JLj40 |
11:12 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 closed pull request #7000: Some NewGRF variables concerning railtypes https://git.io/fhI7h |
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11:14 | <openttd_1> | is there a way to send an httprequest with a game script? |
11:15 | <frosch123> | the only connection from GS to the outside world is the admin port. |
11:15 | <frosch123> | you can write a "proxy" that connects to the admin port and provides the stuff you need |
11:15 | <Xaroth> | i was about to type: inb4 somebody suggests a proxy |
11:15 | <Xaroth> | but you beat me to it, frosch123 |
11:16 | <frosch123> | i believe there is even a library to execute GS commands that were sent from the admin port |
11:16 | <Xaroth> | yeah |
11:17 | <frosch123> | openttd_1: https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=68828 |
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11:21 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #8554: Allow NewGRF vehicles to query the track-type NewGRF about the current track-type https://git.io/JLj4d |
11:22 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 updated pull request #8554: Allow NewGRF vehicles to query the track-type NewGRF about the current track-type https://git.io/JLj43 |
11:22 | <openttd_1> | frosch123 that's interesting, I didn't know about the admin port |
11:22 | <frosch123> | i am no longer user to ottd coding style :) |
11:23 | <frosch123> | *used |
11:24 | <andythenorth> | so I need something like getbits(var[0x63, 8, 0xFF, ELRL]), 2, 1) |
11:24 | <+glx> | oh your PR adds an unrelated fix ;) |
11:25 | <frosch123> | openttd_1: https://wiki.openttd.org/en/Development/Server%20Admin%20Port%20Development https://wiki.openttd.org/en/Development/Server%20admin%20port <- there are plenty of libraries to interface it |
11:27 | <andythenorth> | hmm ELRL like that isn't a valid param |
11:27 | <+glx> | there should be a label thing |
11:28 | <andythenorth> | getbits(var[0x63, 8, 0xFF, railtype(ELRL)], 2, 1) might be better |
11:28 | <andythenorth> | with fewer syntax errors also |
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11:28 | <openttd_1> | frosch123: thanks a lot, that's exactly what I was looking for |
11:29 | <Eddi|zuHause> | andythenorth: ELRL is the index, railtype(ELRL) is the label, or something |
11:29 | <Eddi|zuHause> | andythenorth: also, you don't need getbits, you adjust the "8" and "0xFF" |
11:29 | <+glx> | railtype is the index in translation table |
11:29 | <andythenorth> | thanks, the problem was the syntax error |
11:32 | <andythenorth> | Eddi|zuHause so to pick bit 2? |
11:33 | <Eddi|zuHause> | var[0x63, 2, 1, ...] i believe |
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11:35 | <+glx> | var[<num>, <shift>, <mask>, <param>] |
11:35 | <Eddi|zuHause> | yes. you shift 2 bits, and mask 1 bit |
11:36 | <andythenorth> | confirmed bit 2 works as expected with nutracks |
11:36 | <andythenorth> | I'll do a more complete test |
11:36 | <andythenorth> | not sure how I'll do backwards compatibility with older openttd |
11:36 | <andythenorth> | maybe branch switches? |
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11:38 | <Eddi|zuHause> | does old openttd care about unknown variables? |
11:39 | <Eddi|zuHause> | also, why? |
11:39 | <Eddi|zuHause> | old openttd can still use old newgrf version |
11:39 | <andythenorth> | just use bananas min. compatible? |
11:39 | <andythenorth> | that's what FIRS does |
11:40 | <+glx> | openttd returns 0xFFFFFFFF for unknown |
11:40 | <Eddi|zuHause> | yes, then they won't be able to update unless they also update openttd. |
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11:43 | <andythenorth> | that might coincide nicely |
11:43 | <andythenorth> | I am going to use the inflation warning, and put railtypes into Horse that rely on the curve speed fix |
11:43 | <andythenorth> | so 1.11 min. then |
11:44 | <andythenorth> | more UK royal engine liveries for frosch123, who is now interested in them :P https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/britaingeneralrail/h7C7E706D#h7c7e706d |
11:44 | <andythenorth> | now / not /s probably |
11:45 | <andythenorth> | 'pls send grf with that livery' |
11:47 | <Eddi|zuHause> | frosch123: right, i get that #7000 didn't age well, and mixed too much stuff, and didn't handle NRT on account of not having existed yet. ... but you dropped all the Action7 stuff, and complain that there's no usecase when there was... |
11:50 | <+glx> | can be added later I guess |
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12:10 | <+michi_cc> | andythenorth: Could I bother you for an OSX test whenever convenient? I noticed some strange things which might or might not be caused by me using only a virtual machine. |
12:10 | <Eddi|zuHause> | also RE: "please consider all cases before submitting a PR" ... this isn't ever going to happen. i have a silly idea, i code it, submit it publicly for comments, and then refine it until it is either considered "finished" or i lose interest. but if i don't act on this first impulse, nothing is ever going to happen |
12:11 | <Eddi|zuHause> | and i don't think draft PRs existed back then |
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12:15 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] saveinthesky commented on issue #8501: OTTD crashes on start macosx . Log https://git.io/JLNID |
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12:25 | <andythenorth> | michi_cc is there a PR? :) |
12:25 | <+michi_cc> | andythenorth: https://gist.github.com/michicc/2536e5d15bd268cde4d365205a6f61ff |
12:25 | <andythenorth> | ok |
12:25 | <+michi_cc> | There is no PR, I've just noticed strange things for me. But a VM might mess with timing. |
12:26 | * | andythenorth always forgets p1 instead of p0 |
12:26 | <+michi_cc> | Things to watch for: frame rate (in the framerate window) right now and after applying the patch, both in normal and in fast forward. |
12:27 | <andythenorth> | for current master, or will a recent binary do? |
12:27 | <+michi_cc> | I get a totally inconsistent behaviour for something that should be absolutely identical. |
12:27 | <+michi_cc> | Recent will do |
12:29 | <+michi_cc> | With the patch I get a lot more FPS in fast forward, but also a higher variance in FPS in normal speed. Which is very illogical. |
12:29 | <frosch123> | andythenorth: using "unknown variables" will pick the first switch option |
12:29 | <andythenorth> | thanks |
12:29 | <frosch123> | not sure whether you can control what becomes the first option in nml |
12:30 | <andythenorth> | I'll just bump openttd version, assuming this PR makes 1.11 |
12:31 | <Eddi|zuHause> | you used to be able to check for 1.11-alpha vs release, but i don't know if that survived the github move |
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12:32 | <andythenorth> | did we add a chart to FPS? |
12:32 | <andythenorth> | or was that the mac profiler I used? |
12:32 | * | andythenorth can't remember |
12:32 | <+michi_cc> | Click on the respective time. |
12:33 | <+glx> | <Eddi|zuHause> you used to be able to check for 1.11-alpha vs release, but i don't know if that survived the github move <-- still available, only svn rev stuff is no longer updated |
12:33 | <andythenorth> | thanks |
12:36 | <+michi_cc> | andythenorth: I don't need any scientific study, just saying same or different is quite enough for now :P |
12:37 | <+michi_cc> | I.e. just new game, empty map. |
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12:45 | * | andythenorth BRB - cooking :) |
12:56 | <andythenorth> | michi_cc nothing obviously different between the gist and 1.10.2 |
12:57 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 updated pull request #8554: Allow NewGRF vehicles to query the track-type NewGRF about the current track-type https://git.io/JLj43 |
12:59 | <andythenorth> | 1.10.2 pushes a higher graphics FPS generally, but there are other variables like map etc |
12:59 | <andythenorth> | I have a release build of the gist |
12:59 | <+michi_cc> | It's probably some virtual machine thing. But I get a fastforward (without full anim) of 200 fps normally and like 1000 fps with the patch. |
13:00 | <+michi_cc> | Might be differences in virtualized CPU tick timing though. |
13:01 | <andythenorth> | oh this is weird |
13:01 | <andythenorth> | with full anim off |
13:01 | * | andythenorth restarts the game |
13:02 | <andythenorth> | michi_cc with full anim off, it runs so fast it's in permanent autosave :P |
13:02 | <andythenorth> | and graphics FPS shows 50 |
13:02 | <+michi_cc> | Okay, that matches my observations. |
13:03 | <+michi_cc> | I have more fps fluctuations in normal speed though. |
13:03 | <andythenorth> | ok with autosave off, it's running insanely fast |
13:03 | <andythenorth> | but mostly failing to update the UI |
13:03 | <andythenorth> | yeah it will do about 1 year / s |
13:03 | <andythenorth> | but graphics FPS is 10 |
13:04 | <andythenorth> | (this is with ffwd) |
13:04 | <+michi_cc> | Okay, 10 is a bit low. |
13:04 | <andythenorth> | it fails to track mouse etc as well |
13:04 | <andythenorth> | it's like UI is desynced |
13:05 | <andythenorth> | FPS 0.98 :) |
13:05 | <andythenorth> | after a sustained FFWD |
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13:08 | <+michi_cc> | Okay. One more test. I but a second diff on https://gist.github.com/michicc/2536e5d15bd268cde4d365205a6f61ff, should not conflict with the first. |
13:09 | <+michi_cc> | Use it in addition, not instead of. |
13:10 | <andythenorth> | 'assume -R' ? |
13:10 | <+michi_cc> | Hmm, no??? |
13:11 | <andythenorth> | thought not |
13:11 | <andythenorth> | these diffs look the same in raw |
13:12 | <+michi_cc> | https://gist.githubusercontent.com/michicc/2536e5d15bd268cde4d365205a6f61ff/raw/7131061d120de46cbcb23cab815e017a6bb4c799/sec.diff |
13:12 | <andythenorth> | oh I see |
13:12 | <+michi_cc> | The first on is completely unchanged. |
13:12 | <andythenorth> | I missed the second, raw gives each diff, not the whole gist , my mistake |
13:13 | <TrueBrain> | holy crap, reading that new PR makes me realise I really really do not understand NewGRFs :P Well, code-wise it looks good, best I can tell :D |
13:15 | <TrueBrain> | some mad respect to anyone who understands this :D |
13:16 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i think nobody completely understands it, which is partly why #7000 went so out of hand. everyone understood a different thing, or the same thing differently... |
13:18 | <andythenorth> | michi_cc behaviour with second diff is similar |
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13:20 | <andythenorth> | is it just concidence that full anim makes such a difference to this specific behaviour? |
13:21 | <andythenorth> | coincidence * |
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13:24 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #8468: Fix #8316: Make sort industries by production and transported with a cargo filter possible https://git.io/JLHah |
13:24 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #8554: Allow NewGRF vehicles to query the track-type NewGRF about the current track-type https://git.io/JLju2 |
13:25 | <TrueBrain> | the | for return values confused me for a bit .. kept reading || :D |
13:25 | <TrueBrain> | funny, how a mind fills in things that are not there :) |
13:25 | <Samu> | TrueBrain ::SetDParam(0, 1 << cargo_type); visual studio complains with warning C4334: '<<': result of 32-bit shift implicitly converted to 64 bits (was 64-bit shift intended?) |
13:25 | * | andythenorth wonders what to call the nml vars |
13:26 | <Eddi|zuHause> | TrueBrain: i also don't always manage to separate | vs || |
13:27 | <andythenorth> | maybe "var[0x63, x, y, LABL]" is good enough |
13:27 | <andythenorth> | :P |
13:27 | <TrueBrain> | call it the andy-var? :D |
13:27 | <TrueBrain> | I just like calling things silly |
13:28 | <+glx> | Samu: it should be a 64bit value, probably needs explicit |
13:28 | <andythenorth> | nml authors have it too easy, they're not learning enough hex |
13:28 | <frosch123> | TrueBrain: feel free to add "provide a newgrf that proofs that this is usable at all" to the PR template :p |
13:28 | <TrueBrain> | haha, that is not a bad idea honestly :P |
13:28 | <frosch123> | 7000 contained so much stuff, that made so little sense, that if i would have to write a newgrf to use it, i would rather quit trying |
13:28 | <Eddi|zuHause> | andythenorth: adding nml vars is easy, just remember the "x" and "y" and give it a name |
13:29 | <TrueBrain> | but I am afraid people really than give a .grf, instead of anything I can read :) |
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13:30 | <Eddi|zuHause> | frosch123: andy had a test grf, before it grew out of hand |
13:30 | <+michi_cc> | andythenorth: Okay, then I will shelve that for now. Fast fast-forward is nice, but a broken GUI is not. |
13:30 | <andythenorth> | it's very fast :) |
13:31 | <andythenorth> | 8554 needs added to https://wiki.openttd.org/en/Development/NewGRF/Specification%20Status |
13:31 | <andythenorth> | I can do it later if that helps |
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13:32 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master https://git.io/JLjuF |
13:32 | <@DorpsGek> | - Update: Translations from eints (by translators) |
13:32 | <TrueBrain> | you think frosch123 is going to forget that andythenorth ? Thy of little faith :D |
13:32 | <frosch123> | andythenorth: this time i use strike-through in the review-TODO list, like i saw in other PR. not sure whether that makes it more readable though |
13:32 | <TrueBrain> | we should use "- [ ]" I guess |
13:32 | <TrueBrain> | so it can be checked off :D |
13:33 | <Samu> | "show potential fixes" tells me to do this: ::SetDParam(0, static_cast<uint64>(1) << cargo_type); |
13:33 | <andythenorth> | I misread approved and merged, my silly |
13:34 | <TrueBrain> | :D |
13:34 | <Eddi|zuHause> | frosch123: the wording made it sound like that striking should be done by the reviewers instead of the pr authors |
13:35 | <andythenorth> | I am glad I don't have shoelaces in my shoes, I'm not sure I could tie them some days |
13:35 | <TrueBrain> | I'm not sure others think I tied them, you meant :P |
13:35 | <TrueBrain> | :D |
13:36 | <frosch123> | i learnt that there are two methods to tie shows 2 years ago |
13:36 | <frosch123> | and i actually switched the method |
13:36 | <TrueBrain> | its crazy, isn't it? :D |
13:36 | <frosch123> | didn't expect people at my age would be capable to switch the habit of such a basic thing |
13:37 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i've used 2 main methods to tie shoe laces in my life. in the beginning, i sat there smiling, until someone came around to tie them for me, and later i tied them once and never untied them |
13:38 | <frosch123> | my niece was scolded in 1st grade in school because she helped others close the zipper of their jackets, so they would never learn to do it themself |
13:40 | <Eddi|zuHause> | my mom always tells this story how she came to pick me up from kindergarten, and said "tie your shoes", and i did that. then the teachers there were suprised "wait? he can do that?" :p |
13:42 | <andythenorth> | I think 11 years later (almost to the day) |
13:42 | <andythenorth> | is a good time |
13:42 | <andythenorth> | to revisit this https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=847034#p847034 |
13:48 | <frosch123> | you edited it in 2017 :p |
13:49 | <andythenorth> | so I did |
13:49 | <frosch123> | "ford tiles" sounds like the reverse of hovercraft |
13:49 | <andythenorth> | "multi-mode vehicles, e.g. road-rail; hovercraft on land, amphibious trucks etc." |
13:49 | <andythenorth> | there are so many 'done' ponies to add though |
13:49 | <frosch123> | did you watch some western movies at the time? or do you know roadvehicles which commonly drive through water? |
13:50 | <+glx> | we have hovercraft on land ;) |
13:50 | <Eddi|zuHause> | "ford-tiles" would be a special case of "objects with road state machine" |
13:50 | <andythenorth> | I honestly can't remember frosch123 :) |
13:50 | <andythenorth> | it was probably an excuse to justify bulldozers or something |
13:53 | <andythenorth> | I suspect this video caused it, date is close (turn sound off) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lym_fL6KMhA |
13:54 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened pull request #8555: Fix 218f40e: Warning about 32-bit shift implicitly converted to 64 bits https://git.io/JLjzy |
13:54 | * | andythenorth awaits SpinTires mac build |
13:54 | <Samu> | visual studio added a newline at the end of file |
13:54 | <Samu> | can't make it not do it |
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13:59 | <FLHerne> | andythenorth: I think that one would just underscore how incompatible OpenTTD's vehicle scales are |
13:59 | <FLHerne> | tram-trains might just about work |
13:59 | <FLHerne> | Hovercraft or amphibious trucks would look silly |
14:00 | <andythenorth> | FLHerne Hovercraft would never happen |
14:00 | <andythenorth> | game engine won't support it |
14:00 | <FLHerne> | I thought frosch did it? |
14:00 | <FLHerne> | For a given value of 'it |
14:00 | <FLHerne> | ' |
14:00 | <andythenorth> | I might be lying, for effect |
14:01 | <FLHerne> | And that demonstration proved that it does indeed look really silly :p |
14:02 | <andythenorth> | we should be more adventurous |
14:02 | <andythenorth> | belts for the next livestream, or go home |
14:07 | <TrueBrain> | inserts! |
14:10 | <andythenorth> | or I could just make a pipe grf with NRT |
14:10 | * | andythenorth wonders about 'no junctions' somehow, but how to attach depots then? |
14:15 | <frosch123> | "no junctions" is fine for towns, but silly for humans |
14:15 | <frosch123> | AIs are somewhere inbetween |
14:19 | <andythenorth> | I wonder if RL pipelines have junctions |
14:19 | <andythenorth> | I presume so |
14:19 | <andythenorth> | just some valves I guess |
14:21 | <frosch123> | of course they have junctions |
14:22 | <frosch123> | gas pipelines from russia do not daisy-chain through all of europe |
14:22 | <frosch123> | there are different types of valves |
14:22 | <frosch123> | proper one which can be remote-controlled and which can be opened in percentages to regulate flow |
14:23 | <frosch123> | and cheap ones all over the place to isolate area that need maintainance |
14:23 | <frosch123> | though you keep the gas pressure on the pipe while working on the outside |
14:24 | <frosch123> | it's better to have pressured gas inside, that leaks at some points |
14:24 | <frosch123> | than insufficient pressure inside that may make oxygen leak inside |
14:25 | <frosch123> | though if needed, yuo can also fill the inside with pressured nitrogen. complicated but with both advantages |
14:25 | <frosch123> | does it show i wrote software for that once? |
14:29 | <andythenorth> | maybe you just like pipelines :) |
14:30 | * | andythenorth contemplates one pipe from Russia per destination, TTO style |
14:37 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8501: OTTD crashes on start macosx . Log https://git.io/JLNID |
14:56 | <andythenorth> | Update! https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1240361#p1240361 |
14:56 | <andythenorth> | I snuck a made one in an at the end |
14:56 | <andythenorth> | mad * |
14:57 | <FLHerne> | "...and use it to offer an additional cargo" |
14:58 | <andythenorth> | that's not the mad one :) |
14:58 | <FLHerne> | Can't we just *not* use absurd hacks that made sense when binary-patching a game written in 1990s asm? |
14:58 | <andythenorth> | you have no respect for tradition :D |
15:00 | <Timberwolf> | Bring back the creating a sign named "cht: x y" interface. |
15:01 | <andythenorth> | is my pony list open for contributions |
15:01 | <andythenorth> | should I have made a discussion first? :P |
15:02 | <andythenorth> | FLHerne you think 16 separate holds might be better? o_O |
15:02 | * | andythenorth dreads to imagine the cargo sprite generation for that :P |
15:04 | <Timberwolf> | Good news is I made about 2 hours of videos using #8540 today without anything untoward happening sprite-wise. |
15:06 | <andythenorth> | \o/ |
15:06 | <andythenorth> | hmm I probably don't to rerun cmake when I pull remote? |
15:06 | <andythenorth> | in most cases? |
15:10 | <Timberwolf> | There is an entirely unprompted "that looks good and industrial doesn't it? Good job Andy on that, that's very well done. Let's just admire the industrialness of that" in one of them after I scroll to a carbon black plant for the first time :) |
15:10 | <+glx> | <Samu> visual studio added a newline at the end of file <-- visual studio is right, we used to check/enforce newline at end of file, dunno if it's still the case |
15:10 | <Timberwolf> | It is a very good sprite! |
15:13 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 approved pull request #8555: Fix 218f40e: Warning about 32-bit shift implicitly converted to 64 bits https://git.io/JLjVV |
15:14 | <andythenorth> | Timberwolf :) |
15:14 | <andythenorth> | I got bored of all FIRS industries being copy-paste-o same textures |
15:14 | <andythenorth> | I pushed FIRS 4 to be more diverse |
15:15 | <andythenorth> | TrueBrain so JGR official builds when? (or no?) :) |
15:16 | <frosch123> | did you figure out the train templates? |
15:17 | <andythenorth> | somewhat |
15:17 | <andythenorth> | JGR has fixed a few things |
15:17 | <+glx> | andythenorth: he already knows we can provide builds if he wants |
15:17 | <andythenorth> | the templates are *not* something we could PR |
15:17 | <andythenorth> | the templates are quite interesting though |
15:18 | <andythenorth> | the functionality of "I don't have to yak-shave to change my trains" is nice |
15:18 | <frosch123> | i thought yak-shaving was your favorite hobby |
15:18 | <andythenorth> | yak-shaving grfs is my favourite hobby yes |
15:18 | <andythenorth> | the implementation gets in the way, and the UI design fails to follow any of the 19 or so conventions we already have |
15:18 | <andythenorth> | which is remarkable, but no surprise I guess |
15:19 | <andythenorth> | I think templates would be really nice |
15:19 | <andythenorth> | I also think that the hard part of any version of newgrf liveries is auto-replace |
15:19 | <andythenorth> | and the hard part of templates is auto-replace :P |
15:19 | <andythenorth> | if there are templates...does auto-replace stay or go? |
15:20 | <+glx> | auto replace is a hard part by itself ;) |
15:21 | <+glx> | but it "works" |
15:21 | <andythenorth> | it's really remarkable |
15:21 | <andythenorth> | auto-replace is a really good part of openttd |
15:21 | <+glx> | minus the confusion between renew and replace |
15:22 | <andythenorth> | I asked the discord realism grf liveries-are-cargo-subtypes crowd how they manage the horror of subtypes UI |
15:22 | <andythenorth> | and they are all just like "JGR templates, not an issue mate, just move on" |
15:23 | <andythenorth> | OTOH, FIRS is pretty much going to end up banning every realism train grf |
15:23 | <andythenorth> | because they are using cargos for liveries, which breaks one or the other |
15:23 | <andythenorth> | CZTR is already banned, which is going to get me grief |
15:23 | <andythenorth> | RUKTS is getting banned next, then I need to find the others |
15:24 | <andythenorth> | breaks XIS and AuzInd too, so I might help those authors downstream my changes |
15:24 | <TrueBrain> | glx: static cast around 1? Isn't that just 1LL or something? |
15:24 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 merged pull request #8554: Allow NewGRF vehicles to query the track-type NewGRF about the current track-type https://git.io/JLj43 |
15:24 | <andythenorth> | it's been a while since a proper newgrf author drama :( |
15:25 | <+glx> | maybe just need a new engine property with some kind of list of supported livery to choose from, and a variable to access the choice from action 2 |
15:25 | <frosch123> | andythenorth: you could just skip slot 31 |
15:25 | <Timberwolf> | andythenorth: Want to ban Trains? If you do it on the basis of zoom compatibility you have a good chance of me actually being angry about it :) |
15:25 | <frosch123> | or we could make ottd support multiple cargo grfs |
15:25 | <andythenorth> | Timberwolf you said you don't abuse cargo subtypes though :D |
15:25 | <andythenorth> | zoom is pff |
15:26 | <frosch123> | but the latter only makes sense if not every industry set maxes every cargo type limit with 3 days |
15:26 | <Timberwolf> | Indeed. FIRS compatibility is a deliberate objective. |
15:26 | <+glx> | TrueBrain: ha yes maybe a cast is not needed |
15:26 | <andythenorth> | 2x FIRS Timberwolf fork when? |
15:26 | <andythenorth> | can't be hard |
15:26 | <TrueBrain> | glx: can't test why msvc is being stupid, but a static cast over a number feel very weird :p could you see what the proper syntax is? |
15:26 | <andythenorth> | you don't have to design anything, and all of FIRS looks same |
15:27 | <andythenorth> | TimberFIRS |
15:27 | <andythenorth> | singularity happens |
15:27 | <TrueBrain> | Tnx :D |
15:27 | <Timberwolf> | We already have TimberFIRS, it's the one which relentlessly chucks out 6400 units from secondary industries no matter what. |
15:27 | <andythenorth> | TimberFIRS 2 |
15:28 | <andythenorth> | glx yeah, pretty much, or do it on engine IDs and not a property, but provide UI to group them. Either way, auto-replace is the hard part |
15:29 | <andythenorth> | like, are liveries [some word I don't know like extrinsic or transcendent]? |
15:29 | <andythenorth> | if I have Super Engine in DB colours, can I replace it with Mega Engine and it automatically goes to DB colours? |
15:29 | <+glx> | well auto replace can try the same livery first, and if failing it will use the first available |
15:29 | <andythenorth> | and then do we need strings for each cargo and crap? |
15:29 | <andythenorth> | livery / cargo /s |
15:31 | <frosch123> | TrueBrain: 1ull ? |
15:31 | <andythenorth> | I really like the 'group vehicles in the buy menu' route, but I think it's a bit unix worse-is-better thinking |
15:32 | <andythenorth> | grf authors seem really hostile to it when discussed |
15:32 | <andythenorth> | but auto-replace would just...work |
15:32 | <andythenorth> | it's one property and some UI crap |
15:33 | <TrueBrain> | Unsigned makes more sense yes :D |
15:33 | <andythenorth> | and pooling certain stats like reliability and availability |
15:33 | <+glx> | I think they are hostile because it means "rewrite" their grfs ;) |
15:34 | <+glx> | current livery stuff is just abusing around limitations |
15:34 | <frosch123> | andythenorth: do you know whether silicon valley works with 64 cargos? |
15:34 | <andythenorth> | frosch123 no but I need to play a test game anyway |
15:34 | <andythenorth> | might be time |
15:34 | * | andythenorth considers a fork |
15:34 | <frosch123> | i think i have the same "1 << cargo" in sv. and i have no idea whether our squirrel does 64bit ints |
15:35 | <frosch123> | and i have really surprised there is no other case of it in ottd |
15:35 | <frosch123> | *am |
15:35 | <+glx> | tried 1LL and 1ULL, both work |
15:35 | <andythenorth> | I'll start a SV map and see |
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15:36 | <+glx> | let's check gcc quickly |
15:36 | <+glx> | (but should work too) |
15:36 | <frosch123> | ah, upper-case is a good hint :) |
15:36 | <frosch123> | so yes, we have multiple (1LL << foobar) in ottd |
15:37 | <andythenorth> | how many openttd checkouts do others have? |
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15:37 | <frosch123> | one git, 2 old hg, 5 old svn |
15:37 | <frosch123> | the latter with whatever modifications in them |
15:37 | <frosch123> | but there were 5 hg and 12 svn once, so cleaned up some of them :p |
15:37 | <+glx> | I don't remember how many hg and svn I still have |
15:38 | <+glx> | git is so easier, no need to duplicate checkout to work on something else |
15:39 | <andythenorth> | I have vanilla and jgr |
15:39 | <frosch123> | oh, i forgot the checkouts of the release branches. but meh |
15:39 | <andythenorth> | I keep pulling PRs to test and breaking my savegames due to forgetting :P |
15:39 | <andythenorth> | but I don't think 2 checkouts will improve my memory |
15:40 | <+glx> | haha there's even SQInteger mask = 0x00000001LL << i; |
15:42 | <andythenorth> | frosch123 if SV didn't work, what might I see? :P |
15:42 | <+glx> | and we also have 39 1ULL occurences |
15:43 | <frosch123> | andythenorth: it would fail to name the cargo that you have to produce |
15:43 | <frosch123> | just blank |
15:43 | <andythenorth> | if ID was above 32? |
15:43 | <frosch123> | or maybe it would name the wrong one, shifted by 32 |
15:43 | <+michi_cc> | SetDParam takes uint64, so ULL I'd think. |
15:43 | <frosch123> | so if you have to produce cargo 34, it would tell you cargo 2, or so :p |
15:44 | <+glx> | I think it would tell 0 |
15:44 | <andythenorth> | seems to work afaict |
15:44 | <+michi_cc> | typedef __int64 SQInteger |
15:44 | <andythenorth> | it's given me Vehicle Parts with ID 45 |
15:45 | <frosch123> | michi_cc: cool, i was worried we switched to int32 for everyone, to make 32bit and 64bit behave the same |
15:45 | <andythenorth> | it's detected an industry I built correctly producing VPTS |
15:46 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 requested changes for pull request #8555: Fix 218f40e: Warning about 32-bit shift implicitly converted to 64 bits https://git.io/JLjrf |
15:46 | * | andythenorth considers an nml to m4nfo code generator for stations, |
15:47 | <andythenorth> | oh I think timberwolf already suggested that? |
15:47 | <Timberwolf> | Heh. No, I wrote my own weird sidetrack for stations. |
15:47 | <+michi_cc> | I think 32-bit compilers that don't have a 64-bit type are not thing for some time now :) |
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15:50 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #8555: Fix 218f40e: Warning about 32-bit shift implicitly converted to 64 bits https://git.io/JLjzy |
15:50 | <Samu> | hi |
15:51 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 approved pull request #8555: Fix 218f40e: Warning about 32-bit shift implicitly converted to 64 bits https://git.io/JLjrL |
15:51 | <andythenorth> | glx fancy trying a rough prototype of this to see if it's rubbish? :P https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/discussions/8446#discussioncomment-246651 |
15:51 | <andythenorth> | I could provide a grf |
15:53 | <andythenorth> | prototype could just group vehicles where the name string matches |
15:54 | <+glx> | I hate touching GUI ;) |
15:56 | * | andythenorth wonders where GUI even is |
15:56 | <andythenorth> | must be some widgets.cpp or something |
15:56 | <andythenorth> | lol there is widget.cpp |
15:58 | <+glx> | I think it's in build_vehicle_gui.cpp |
15:58 | <andythenorth> | tree thing is not widgetised I think |
15:59 | <andythenorth> | the existing subtypes tree drawing is in vehicle_gui.cpp L454 and so |
15:59 | <andythenorth> | tree is not essential, just hide / show variants on click |
15:59 | * | andythenorth "my first C++ patch" time |
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16:00 | <andythenorth> | this always goes...great |
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16:01 | <+glx> | DrawEngineList() handles the drawing |
16:01 | <andythenorth> | thanks |
16:02 | <andythenorth> | guess it needs fed a list of engines |
16:02 | <andythenorth> | hmm, the existing hide/show might give clues |
16:02 | * | andythenorth new samu |
16:03 | <+glx> | and this draw function is shared between autoreplace and buy |
16:04 | <andythenorth> | yup, I saw the 'crashed' palette use :) |
16:04 | <andythenorth> | no idea how to associate engines in eng_list |
16:05 | <andythenorth> | does that get split up so it contains a list of lists? |
16:05 | <andythenorth> | or is grouping a property on each engine, read when drawing? |
16:05 | <andythenorth> | list of lists means rebuilding all sorting |
16:05 | <andythenorth> | so 'nope' |
16:06 | <+glx> | the list is sorted (by criteria selected in GUI) |
16:07 | <andythenorth> | maybe something like engine has parent ID / none |
16:10 | <+glx> | but adding "group by" may need to create a list of lists |
16:12 | <+glx> | that's where a livery property would help a lot ;) |
16:12 | <andythenorth> | yes |
16:12 | <andythenorth> | I am +/-0 on the IDs idea |
16:12 | <+glx> | 1 engine ID, many liveries, naturally grouped |
16:13 | <andythenorth> | it does seem the simplest overall |
16:13 | <andythenorth> | overwhelmingly, grf authors want to set liveries |
16:13 | <andythenorth> | the abuse of subtypes for stats changes is minimal (I do it) |
16:13 | <+glx> | and maybe a new feature to define liveries specs, like name |
16:14 | <andythenorth> | livery labels :P |
16:14 | <andythenorth> | common livery scheme :P |
16:14 | <andythenorth> | nope |
16:14 | <+glx> | stats can still be modified via CB36 depending of selected livery |
16:16 | <+glx> | I think it's the simplest solution for both newgrf authors, and openttd devs |
16:16 | <andythenorth> | I was trying to avoid combinatorial crap like "BR Blue 87mph, air brakes" |
16:16 | <andythenorth> | but yes |
16:16 | <andythenorth> | agree |
16:18 | <+glx> | in most cases I guess all stats are the same, just the visual changes |
16:19 | <andythenorth> | the changing stats idea...rarely works IMHO |
16:19 | <andythenorth> | I've done it 2 or 3 times now |
16:20 | <andythenorth> | it's nice idea for short buy menu, but bad gameplay |
16:20 | <+glx> | probably more effective to just create a new engine for different stats |
16:21 | <andythenorth> | yup |
16:21 | <andythenorth> | I'm removing refittable capacities from ships currently |
16:21 | <andythenorth> | no station refit support, no auto-replace support, just kind of fail :) |
16:23 | <TrueBrain> | https://merge-chance.info/target?repo=openttd/openttd |
16:23 | <TrueBrain> | Pretty decent |
16:24 | <+glx> | haha but if it's not merged, it stays open for years ;) |
16:24 | <TrueBrain> | No no, read the fine print on that page |
16:24 | <TrueBrain> | They take that into account t pretty nicely |
16:25 | <+glx> | based on 161 most recent |
16:25 | <TrueBrain> | 161 non-members |
16:26 | <TrueBrain> | Which is a lot |
16:26 | <+glx> | oh I see, they're still open for us, but considered closed by the analyser |
16:26 | <andythenorth> | shall we get a badge? o_O |
16:27 | <TrueBrain> | It doesn't feel like we accept 80%, but stats don't lie |
16:27 | <TrueBrain> | https://merge-chance.info/target?repo=vuejs/vue |
16:27 | <TrueBrain> | They do the inverse :p |
16:28 | <+glx> | but faster ;) |
16:28 | <TrueBrain> | Not sure that means better :p |
16:28 | <andythenorth> | so a train would need a list of the liveries it supports? |
16:29 | <andythenorth> | like refittable cargos or something? |
16:29 | <+glx> | yeah similar to refittable |
16:29 | <andythenorth> | static prop, or CB? |
16:30 | <+glx> | I guess usual way is both |
16:31 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc merged pull request #8555: Fix 218f40e: Warning about 32-bit shift implicitly converted to 64 bits https://git.io/JLjzy |
16:31 | <+glx> | so it's possible to "remove" liveries based on current year |
16:31 | <andythenorth> | hmm can I change cargo refits in cb36? |
16:31 | * | andythenorth imagines mischief |
16:32 | <+glx> | remove/add from the list, but still available to draw current running vehicles |
16:32 | <+glx> | just not for new ones |
16:32 | <andythenorth> | I think for the full range of madness, authors will want to check by dates and stuff yes |
16:35 | <frosch123> | andythenorth: the mistake of cargo subtypes to make the callback define the list |
16:36 | <frosch123> | it's easier if you have a static list, and a callback that tells available/not available |
16:36 | <frosch123> | that way it's clearly known which items exist, even if they are not available now |
16:36 | <andythenorth> | so similar to cargos |
16:36 | <andythenorth> | but not |
16:37 | <andythenorth> | there will need to be some new feature type 'livery' to provide a label and name string? |
16:37 | <andythenorth> | or can it be jammed into action 14? :P |
16:37 | <+glx> | new feature is probably better |
16:37 | <frosch123> | andythenorth: action14 is for static stuff. |
16:38 | <frosch123> | just add a text property? like for object and station classes? |
16:38 | * | andythenorth wonders if availability of a livery is better handled per livery |
16:38 | <andythenorth> | not per vehicle |
16:38 | <+glx> | per livery makes sense |
16:38 | <andythenorth> | I can see authors arguing it both ways |
16:39 | <andythenorth> | e.g. SNCF Fret is only after 199x |
16:39 | <andythenorth> | but blablah engine has special realism based rules due to it's exact history |
16:41 | <andythenorth> | I have 'liveries' in Iron Horse already, and the definitions started per engine, and pretty quickly moved to global https://github.com/andythenorth/iron-horse/blob/master/src/rosters/pony.py#L193 |
16:41 | <andythenorth> | (company colour rules stupidity) |
16:43 | <andythenorth> | looking at Objects: text ID, Introduction date, End of life date seem stealable |
16:43 | <andythenorth> | https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action0/Objects#Object_class_text_ID_.2809.29 |
16:44 | <andythenorth> | the 'this engine is special' case is solved by defining a different livery, same string, different dates, only used for that engine |
16:44 | <andythenorth> | or something |
16:44 | <frosch123> | TrueBrain: how does it do the "non member" thing? most members are not public |
16:47 | <TrueBrain> | I guess by the member label on PRs, but I didn't write it, so I don't know |
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16:50 | <frosch123> | when i log out, glx is listed as "contributor" |
16:51 | <frosch123> | so it does not spoil member secrets |
16:52 | <frosch123> | ah, the filter-by-author dropdown seems to spoil it :p |
16:54 | <Samu> | isn't my solution in #8009 similar somewhat to #7979 ? |
16:55 | <Samu> | :( sad face because it was closed |
16:57 | <andythenorth> | livery UI? Similar to subtypes, but less crap? |
16:57 | <frosch123> | those issue/pr filters spoil the whole member structure |
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17:07 | <Samu> | cyas |
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17:14 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Milek7 commented on pull request #8391: RFC: Feature: Public key company authorization https://git.io/JLj6q |
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18:30 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] mattkimber updated pull request #8540: Fix eeb88e8: Trains reversed while paused do not correctly update sprite bounds https://git.io/JLpdb |
18:30 | <Timberwolf> | Spoke too soon. I broke ships. |
18:31 | <Timberwolf> | Noticed it while reviewing videos, there was a one-frame glitch when a ship turned. |
18:32 | <Timberwolf> | We definitely need more people playing nightlies! |
18:37 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LC-Zorg commented on issue #8551: Flat maps of arctic and tropical climates are completely inaccessible https://git.io/JLh6Z |
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19:21 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LC-Zorg commented on pull request #8552: Feature: Prevent vehicles to unload cargo in implicit stops in cargodist mode if the cargo is not accepted in such station https://git.io/JLj7n |
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21:07 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/team] AKANexus opened issue #124: [pt_BR] Translator access request https://git.io/JLjbZ |
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--- | Log | closed Mon Jan 11 00:00:49 2021 |