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#openttd IRC Logs for 2021-01-11

---Logopened Mon Jan 11 00:00:49 2021
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02:24<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #8548: Dump info console commands https://git.io/JteG3
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02:59<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #8552: Feature: Prevent vehicles to unload cargo in implicit stops in cargodist mode if the cargo is not accepted in such station https://git.io/JteZ5
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03:23<andythenorth>o/
03:25<andythenorth>livery spec such https://gist.githubusercontent.com/andythenorth/636908e3498197124782c6daf40de6ae/raw/7c01cb42d8e8829f857a06222cb076387343b517/gistfile1.txt
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05:13<Samu>hi
05:50<Samu>is this doing what I think it's doing? SB(_me[t].m8, 0, 14, 0);
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06:00<Samu>nop, it's not
06:17<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #8461: Feature: Permanent rivers https://git.io/JLS3A
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07:23<Samu>wow, towns are really angry now, i just cleared a few trees when building rails
07:23<Samu>and i got instantly appalling
07:23<Samu>and that's with a permissive setting
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07:29<Xaroth>they _really_ liked those trees.
07:29<debdog>:)
07:30<Samu>i wonder if tree density has anything to do with it
08:02<Samu>i can't reproduce this https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/8552
08:15<Samu>yep, those reproduction steps didn't work for me
08:15<Samu>the train goes to C, but doesn't unload coal as he says
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08:21<Samu>https://i.imgur.com/xiPe0Qd.png
08:21<Samu>I don't understand cargodist that much, maybe I'm doing something wrong?
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08:37<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on pull request #8507: Fix #7604: prevent houses to wander too far from town center when rebuilding https://git.io/JterV
08:40<_dp_>nvm, I forgot BuildTownHouse can shift tiles
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08:53<TrueBrain>milek7: realised that with your approach the connection can still be easily MITM'd, as we don't validate the server pubkey .. doesn't allow for existing trust to be compromised, but does allow for new trust to be compromised
08:53<TrueBrain>well, "your approach", sounds like there is something wrong with that
08:53<TrueBrain>it isn't
08:53<TrueBrain>it is more that we miss an additional step to mitigate scenarios like you painted further
08:54<TrueBrain>I wrote some words on the gist; just see if you agree with them and if you consider them worth mitigating
08:55<TrueBrain>_dp_: :D
08:56<TrueBrain>my mail still shows your reply, MWHAHAHAHAHA :P
08:56<_dp_>TrueBrain, gz on being able to read even more nonsense :p
08:56<TrueBrain>:D
08:56<TrueBrain>well, you do have a point, as in: it is a real problem
08:56<TrueBrain>just not one that the PR increased or decreased
08:57<TrueBrain>well, it increased it slightly, as houses are more likely to remain in the center
08:57<TrueBrain>so I give you that :)
08:57<TrueBrain>but yeah, it is just a bit poor design how houses bigger than 1x1 are placed
08:58<_dp_>TrueBrain, I'm not sure it is a 'problem' as I don't really see any reasonable way to 'fix' it
08:58<_dp_>so a feature :p
08:59<TrueBrain>fair :D
08:59<TrueBrain>and yes, I was happy to see 2x2 could be build from any tile; it can shift in any direction
08:59<TrueBrain>I did not know that about the Town Growth
08:59<TrueBrain>someone already put effort into that, as it turned out .. that a 2x2 doesn't always have to start on the northern tile :D
09:00<_dp_>TrueBrain, well, if it didn't it wouldn't be able to build 2x2 on all sides of the road
09:00<TrueBrain>would have been worth mentioning in my PR, as I did check that .. lol :)
09:00<Eddi|zuHause>so what's missing? 2x2 overbuilding more than one house at the same time?
09:01<TrueBrain>fusing of houses!
09:02<TrueBrain>that is 2 houses like each other A LOT, they can fuse, and become a bigger house
09:02<TrueBrain>sounds realistic
09:02<_dp_>well, that's one way to fix it I guess
09:02<_dp_>not sure I'd like that it cb though
09:02<_dp_>*in
09:03<TrueBrain>so, 1.11 .. what more do we need .. lets see ..
09:04<TrueBrain>few reviews .. one of airport code ... I will assign that to LordAro , he owes me an airport code review :D
09:04<LordAro>i thought you might
09:04<TrueBrain>:D
09:04<TrueBrain>I too added lots of comments!
09:04<TrueBrain>pretty sure airport code will become the most commented part of the game :D
09:05<TrueBrain>owh, right, 1 PR that ... I am not even sure off fixes the problem correct
09:05<TrueBrain>as ... Trains and Next()
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09:05<TrueBrain>and one "rant" PR, to revert "restart" to its old behaviour, to not scare away all server operators when 1.11 hits :P
09:06<TrueBrain>next, we have 1 PR I like to have in, but is a code-change only (scrollbar thingy)
09:06<TrueBrain>and the GUI buttons .. not sure what the state is there, will have to check with our chief when he joins tonight
09:06<TrueBrain>and LordAro thought I was too ambitious with my 1.11 milestone :P
09:07<LordAro>i mean, having someone working on it full time certainly helps :p
09:07<TrueBrain>:D
09:07<TrueBrain>shocking, aint it? :P
09:07<TrueBrain>it was fun to do with my time off :)
09:08<TrueBrain>I won't keep this up, just to be clear :P :P
09:08<LordAro>is that time off coming to an end? :D
09:09<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8378: Remove undefined behaviour from save/load code https://git.io/JteKT
09:09<TrueBrain>well, I still don't have a job ... more correct: I still haven't applied for one :P
09:09<Samu>I'd like to request #7670/#7822 so that I can start testing "bad" AIs without lagging too much
09:09<TrueBrain>but I have other projects I want to work on too :D
09:09<TrueBrain>so yeah .. :D
09:10<TrueBrain>might shift some of my time to those :)
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09:11<LordAro>TrueBrain: are you... ok with that? :>
09:12<TrueBrain>with what?
09:12<LordAro>not having/applying for job
09:12<TrueBrain>more than I expected to be :)
09:12<TrueBrain>for 6 years I worked a lot .. like .. a lot .. like .. not normal, a lot
09:12<TrueBrain>learned a lot, could do a lot, have done cool shit and stuff
09:12<TrueBrain>been in places I cannot even talk about and shit
09:12<TrueBrain>but ... it took its toll
09:13<TrueBrain>so doing absolutely nothing is pretty .. enjoyable :)
09:13<LordAro>i can imagine so
09:13<LordAro>how long can you keep it up? :p
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09:13<TrueBrain>and I finally managed to get my savings below the level I have to pay additional money to the gov over, so there is that :D
09:13<LordAro>hahaha
09:13<TrueBrain>euh .. 3 years, at this rate? :P Without any compromises :P
09:13<LordAro>nice.
09:13<TrueBrain>so I am really not worried
09:14<TrueBrain>but, I do agree it is unusual :)
09:22<TrueBrain>hmm .. other project, or am I going to try multi-GSes .. that won't be a small project :P
09:22<_dp_>TrueBrain, actually, 2x2 shift doesn't check _all_ directions
09:22<_dp_>so my comment may actually be mostly correct
09:22<TrueBrain>no? I saw it grow in at least 2
09:23<_dp_>I'll make a picture :)
09:23<TrueBrain>oeh, pretty pictures :D
09:24<TrueBrain>the function doing it is written REALLY strange, but it does check 4 tiles :P
09:24<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #8550: Feature: "Remove all industries" button in scenario editor https://git.io/JteKF
09:25<TrueBrain>tile, tile+SE, tile+SW, tile+NW
09:25<TrueBrain>owh, but in reverse, because ... ugh
09:25<TrueBrain>so .. tile, tile+NW, tile+NE, tile+SE, I guess
09:25<Eddi|zuHause>probably been that way since r1
09:26<LordAro>#blamechris
09:26<TrueBrain>next, it checks for every of those tiles if tile, tile+SE, tile+SW, tile+NW is free
09:26<TrueBrain>I learnt nothing from all this
09:27<Eddi|zuHause>yes. the first part is checking all possible 2x2 house locations from the origin tile, the next part is checking if all tiles of that 2x2 house location are free
09:28<TrueBrain>I get what it tries to do .. but boy, that could have written in so many ways that would have been more readable
09:28<Eddi|zuHause>so that second part should check for "free or replaceable house"
09:28<+glx>in the addition to the "remove all" button, he suggests to move "many random industries" out from the list to its own button, I think it's a valid idea, but you can tell what you think about that in #8550
09:29<TrueBrain>I think your assessment doesn't need validation :D
09:29<TrueBrain>Removing hacks == goooooodddddd
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09:30<LordAro>i agree
09:30<LordAro>i'd quite like a confirm box on "remove all industries" though
09:30<TrueBrain>the only thing I am wondering, should they be 2 buttons on top of each other
09:30<TrueBrain>or rather next to each other?
09:30<+glx>there is a confirm box
09:30<TrueBrain>LordAro: read the PR ffs :P
09:30<LordAro>next to each other, i'd say
09:30<LordAro>ah good
09:31<TrueBrain>it has a animated gif and everything
09:31<LordAro>it wasn't mentioned in the text :p
09:31<TrueBrain>IT HAS AN ANIMATED GIF SHOWING YOU :P
09:31<LordAro>and i hadn't gotten further than scanning the email notification :p
09:31<TrueBrain>I forgive you :)
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09:32<milek7>TrueBrain: I will write more later, but I posted quick reply in gist
09:33<TrueBrain>you made me laugh that you consider this less likely, and I consider it more likely :)
09:33<TrueBrain>anyway, as mentioned, these things can be extended on, and doesn't invalidate anything done
09:35<TrueBrain>just as long as we are honest that the risk does exist, nothing is broken :)
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09:38<Samu>have anyone actually tried to do the reproduction steps? #8552?
09:38<Samu>train doesn't unload at C for me
09:42<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8550: Feature: "Remove all industries" button in scenario editor https://git.io/Jte6o
09:49<_dp_>TrueBrain, yeah, should be fine for that pr since it does seem to be able to revert the pr shift in all cases
09:49*_dp_ after many many pictures
09:49<TrueBrain>:D
09:49<TrueBrain>I gave up understanding the code :P
09:49<TrueBrain>and just "assumed it would be fine"
09:53<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] saveinthesky commented on issue #8501: OTTD crashes on start macosx . Log https://git.io/JLNID
09:58<_dp_>Guess I'll add it to my townsim and check stats since I'll have to do that anyway
10:01<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on pull request #8548: Dump info console commands https://git.io/Jteig
10:01<Eddi|zuHause>i'm 90% through updating the diagonal crossings patch... but i think i've hit some larger blocks of code that changed with roadtypes...
10:02<Eddi|zuHause>also, need to rework the adjacent crossings changes into it
10:05<Eddi|zuHause>(and that completely ignores the graphics changes that i couldn't lift off the ancient maedrhos patch in the first place)
10:12<supermop_Home>didn't someone try to make diagonal stations once?
10:13<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but that was even more ancient
10:14<supermop_Home>and/or sloped stations
10:14<Eddi|zuHause>sloped road stations might make sense
10:15<Eddi|zuHause>drive through
10:15<Eddi|zuHause>i think Wolf01 tried that
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10:41<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/nml] glx22 commented on pull request #182: Fix: regression failure with Pillow 8.1.0 https://git.io/Jte1E
10:43<+glx>it's nice we have only 3 pcx files for nml regression, and they all have a different effect on pillow, one loads, 2 fail with different reason
10:53<Samu>i have a question
10:53<Samu>https://pastebin.com/m7iAiPem which one is better? 1, 2 or 3, or other?
10:54<+glx>for me it's 1, but I'm not a c++ specialist
10:56<Samu>i currently have 3
10:56<Samu>as seen as https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/8398/files
10:56<LordAro>1 or 2, personally
10:57<Samu>which one adheres with code style though?
11:00<Samu>can't seem to find any occurrence of this in any part of the code
11:01<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on pull request #8552: Feature: Prevent vehicles to unload cargo in implicit stops in cargodist mode if the cargo is not accepted in such station https://git.io/JteMX
11:03<_dp_>oh, I forgot I switched citymania from mysql to postgres
11:03<_dp_>celebrating ny went well xD
11:12<Samu>_dp_ how would you do=
11:13<_dp_>Samu, do what?
11:13<Samu>https://pastebin.com/m7iAiPem
11:14<_dp_>Samu, 2
11:14<Samu>oki
11:17<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LC-Zorg commented on pull request #8550: Feature: "Remove all industries" button in scenario editor https://git.io/JteDM
11:19<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #8398: Change: Distribute left over cargo to stations according to the highest remainder https://git.io/JLuoN
11:20<Samu>done
11:22<Samu>trailing white space t.t
11:25<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #8398: Change: Distribute left over cargo to stations according to the highest remainder https://git.io/JLuoN
11:29<_dp_>Samu, btw, don't use both pair+struct combo to hold 3 values, either use tuple or move station into struct
11:30<Samu>uh oh
11:31<_dp_>not to say that I understand wtf is that pr even about :p
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11:45<Eddi|zuHause>can i tell make to continue compiling all .cpp files even if one of them fails?
11:45<Eddi|zuHause>well, i could like do "-j200" or soemthing ridiculous
11:54<LordAro>Eddi|zuHause: --keep-going
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12:07<Samu>learning how to do tuple
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12:26<Eddi|zuHause>"tram = road = (GetCrossingRailAxis(ti->tile) == AXIS_Y ? ROAD_X : ROAD_Y);" <-- how did this get into the code? instead of using GetCrossingRoadAxis?
12:31<Eddi|zuHause>"tram = road = AxisToRoadBits(GetCrossingRoadAxis(ti->tile));" seems equivalent
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12:52<Samu>yes! tuple magic!
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13:03<Samu>i can't seem to do this the struct way
13:03<Samu>i could do tuple, but not struct
13:05<andythenorth>yo
13:31<andythenorth>livery spec attempt https://gist.githubusercontent.com/andythenorth/636908e3498197124782c6daf40de6ae/raw/7c01cb42d8e8829f857a06222cb076387343b517/gistfile1.txt
13:32<andythenorth>I tried to delete most of the blablabla
13:33<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master https://git.io/Jteds
13:33<@DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
13:42<_dp_>hm, 8507 does seem to reduce growth a bit, not sure why exactly... https://imgur.com/a/mLCzoiT
13:45<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/team] frosch123 commented on issue #124: [pt_BR] Translator access request https://git.io/JLjbZ
13:51<Eddi|zuHause>huh? got a 403 trying to push to github
13:52<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8006: Codechange: Increase scrollbar length limit to UINT_MAX and make their length properly unsigned https://git.io/JteFZ
13:55<Eddi|zuHause>"You must verify your email address."
13:56<Eddi|zuHause>weird, they say emails were undeliverable...
13:57<TrueBrain>_dp_: I guess that is the amount of run-away houses on average? :)
13:58<_dp_>TrueBrain, nah, runaway houses shouldn't change avg house count
13:58<_dp_>most likely just a bug in townsim though xD
13:59<_dp_>or rather they can change house count but only by increasing fails
14:00<TrueBrain>_dp_: it -does- change house count
14:00<TrueBrain>5 is a bit higher than I would expect :P
14:01<TrueBrain>but there has to be some difference :)
14:02<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro updated pull request #8006: Codechange: Increase scrollbar length limit to UINT_MAX and make their length properly unsigned https://git.io/Jv8Vk
14:03<LordAro>TrueBrain: i think that's everything
14:04<LordAro>probably should check for windows warnings
14:08<TrueBrain>LordAro: will check in a bit :)
14:08<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8531: Fix #7619: nudge fast planes sooner towards their target https://git.io/JtebG
14:10<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8527: Fix a bug in "restart" and introduce "reload" console command https://git.io/Jtebc
14:10<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z opened pull request #8556: Feature: Allow diagonal tracks on level crossings https://git.io/JtebC
14:10<LordAro>oh no
14:10<TrueBrain>no?
14:10<LordAro>diagonal crossings
14:10<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed issue #7619: Game crash from out-of-bounds helicopter, infinite circling with superfast aircraft https://git.io/fjz3Z
14:11<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8531: Fix #7619: nudge fast planes sooner towards their target https://git.io/JLp1e
14:11<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8527: Fix a bug in "restart" and introduce "reload" console command https://git.io/JLp8M
14:11<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed issue #8469: 'restart' command after loading a savegame no longer re-generates the same world applying the settings from the save https://git.io/JLHpO
14:11<Eddi|zuHause>LordAro: it's currently in a very "it compiles" state, unfortunately
14:12<LordAro>:)
14:13<TrueBrain>UnderflowSafeSub is so much better LordAro , nice :)
14:13<LordAro>i wondered about templating it
14:13<LordAro>then forgot
14:18<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8006: Codechange: Increase scrollbar length limit to UINT_MAX and make their length properly unsigned https://git.io/JtebS
14:18<TrueBrain>I think LordAro was testing me
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14:21<LordAro>"It is highly unlikely that this patch can be resurrected. " ~Eddi, 2008
14:21<Eddi|zuHause>you realize how unlikely it is that i actually managed to do this? :p
14:22<LordAro>Eddi|zuHause: :D
14:22<Eddi|zuHause>this was 2011-ish
14:23<LordAro> Warning: ..\src\network\network_gui.cpp(264): warning C4267: 'argument': conversion from 'size_t' to 'uint', possible loss of data
14:23<LordAro>blarg.
14:24<LordAro>i suppose i could make it size_t instead, but...
14:24<andythenorth>so using livery spec, Gold Train GS https://thomaswood.fandom.com/wiki/Gold_Thomas
14:25<andythenorth>most games now seem to be about unlocking skins
14:27<Eddi|zuHause>they have a very different target audience
14:28<andythenorth>I don't think you've been in discord?
14:28<andythenorth>:)
14:30<andythenorth>can GS count stats about vehicles using stations in a town?
14:31<andythenorth>GS dice rolls which livery a town prefers, and player has to try and figure out which one it is by testing :P
14:31<LordAro>i'm not sure that information is recorded anywhere
14:32<andythenorth>GS notices a new livery in use, and increases station ratings
14:32<Eddi|zuHause>well, they can get a list of vehicles visiting a station, same as the player can in the station window
14:33<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 updated pull request #8455: Unified GUI buttons for renaming and scrolling to entities https://git.io/JLyG8
14:33<Eddi|zuHause>but they probably can't read much newgrf-specific stuff
14:33<andythenorth>the daily missions GS could do 'use all the liveries for this engine and get a reward'
14:33<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc updated pull request #8378: Remove undefined behaviour from save/load code https://git.io/JIjs7
14:35<andythenorth>GS station rating penalty if engine livery doesn't match carriage livery
14:35<LordAro>const_cast<void *>(static_cast<const void *>(reinterpret_cast<const char *>(std::addressof(static_cast<LinkGraphJob *>(...
14:36<LordAro>jesus.
14:36<TrueBrain>LOLz!
14:36<TrueBrain>who has to be put on the naughty-bench? :P
14:36<LordAro>just use a c-style cast
14:36<LordAro>TrueBrain: literally the line you commented on for michi_cc's PR :p
14:36<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #8455: Unified GUI buttons for renaming and scrolling to entities https://git.io/JteNw
14:37<TrueBrain>LordAro: the one that triggered my OCD? Shows how I totally did not read it :D
14:37<LordAro>:D
14:37<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #8378: Remove undefined behaviour from save/load code https://git.io/JteNo
14:37<TrueBrain>(I tried to read the PR, I failed, I gave up :P)
14:37*andythenorth runs out of GS -> train livery ideas
14:38<andythenorth>GS makes all RVs of one livery cheaper, because the paint is simpler?
14:38<andythenorth>GS only lets green buses in the town?
14:38<TrueBrain>so now we wait for a preview and we are going to try to break frosch123 's patch :D
14:38<andythenorth>hmm no, that's just company colours
14:40<andythenorth>GS reduces running cost if livery features vinyl-wrap adverts?
14:40<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: i was like "maybe i can learn a few things"... i think i was wrong :p
14:41<TrueBrain>frosch123: can I bothered you to review https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/8533 ? As I wrote there, I am totally not sure that the code is correct; I know that the place of fixing should, give-or-take, be correct, but this Next() stuff confuses the fuck you of me :) I was hoping you had some better insights :D
14:42<andythenorth>ho ho, why don't we sell...ad space...in the game world? :D
14:43<andythenorth>we could integrate some adtech server that specialises in pixel ads
14:43<Eddi|zuHause>can we ban andythenorth?
14:43<andythenorth>there's always discord
14:43<andythenorth>although it is like talking to my kids
14:47<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8551: Flat maps of arctic and tropical climates are completely inaccessible https://git.io/JLh6Z
14:47<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc updated pull request #8378: Remove undefined behaviour from save/load code https://git.io/JIjs7
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14:52<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8455: Unified GUI buttons for renaming and scrolling to entities https://git.io/JteA4
14:53<TrueBrain>I really like your work with that PR frosch123 :)
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14:55<TrueBrain>lol, we have no COLOUR_BLACK .. hmm
14:56<frosch123>only dark grey
14:56<TrueBrain>not in the Colours enum
14:57<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #8533: Fix: don't allow free-wagon-chains to exceed max-train-length https://git.io/JteAV
14:57<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 approved pull request #8533: Fix: don't allow free-wagon-chains to exceed max-train-length https://git.io/JteAr
14:57<frosch123>TrueBrain: why do you need it?
14:57<TrueBrain>was looking for that graph issue thing
14:57<TrueBrain>making the background darker
14:57<TrueBrain>and tnx frosch123 , much appreciated that review :)
14:57<frosch123>use a palette color, not a company color :)
14:58<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8533: Fix: don't allow free-wagon-chains to exceed max-train-length https://git.io/JLpMo
14:58<Eddi|zuHause>aren't those the company colours?
14:58<TrueBrain>NWidget(WWT_EMPTY, COLOUR_GREY, WID_CV_GRAPH) <- frosch123 , I wanted to change that COLOUR_GREY into something black
14:58<TrueBrain>but there is none in the enum
14:59<frosch123>ignore the widget color, just draw a black rectangle in the graph
14:59<frosch123>search for PC_BLACK
14:59<frosch123>possibly add a new constant next to GRAPH_AXIS_LINE_COLOUR
15:00<frosch123>TrueBrain: the widgets use the company colours, since they want multiple shades for bevels and stuff
15:00<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8295: Game crashes trying to sell huge wagon chain https://git.io/JJ9zk
15:00<frosch123>but for the graph, just draw a black rect imo
15:01<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think github and my mail provider like each other... the email verification worked, but an hour later, it's refusing again
15:01<TrueBrain>frosch123: ah, that makes sense :)
15:02<_dp_>btw, I once tried to improve graphs by adding dark outline
15:03<TrueBrain>LordAro: https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/8295 <- this ticket is now yours :) I am okay with close it, but not sure you are :)
15:03<_dp_>it's not perfect but better https://i.imgur.com/BAYWUSR.png
15:03<TrueBrain>indeed
15:03<TrueBrain>right, 3 tickets left for the 1.11 milestone :D
15:04<LordAro>TrueBrain: oh my
15:04<TrueBrain>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/8540 <- this was a trivial PR .. now it is a lot more :D
15:07<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #8398: Change: Distribute left over cargo to stations according to the highest remainder https://git.io/JLuoN
15:08<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8539: Graph Window - Colors of the mauve, dark green and purple companies are barely visible https://git.io/JLpHF
15:08<TrueBrain>https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/1663690/104232661-f5082280-5450-11eb-8d29-bd1b41dad953.png <- frosch123 : yup, just-not-black as background looks good :D
15:10<frosch123>i am unsure whether you mistyped; or are joking that ottd has no real black, just very very dark greey
15:10<_2TallTyler>Much prettier graph!
15:11<TrueBrain>no, I tried PC_BLACK first, which didn't look pretty; so I made it slightly less dark, which looks better
15:11<TrueBrain>but I also did not use PC_DARK_GREY
15:11<TrueBrain>which was too light :)
15:11<TrueBrain>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/0eff2006021dcac8d01144a336856d6ecd7eedcd/docs/palettes/palette_key.png <- I used colour 2
15:11<frosch123>i hope GREY_SCALE(2) :)
15:11<TrueBrain>ofc :)
15:11<frosch123>\o/
15:11<frosch123>it's a silly trick to make magic numbers look less magic
15:12<frosch123>just add a nop-macro :p
15:12<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, in a totally unrelated GUI i was in charge of a few years ago, i also found that not-quite-black is better than pure-black for large areas
15:12<TrueBrain>it does the trick :)
15:12<TrueBrain>general rule of UI: never use #000000, never use #ffffff
15:12<TrueBrain>things look 1000x prettier if you follow that rule alone :)
15:14<_dp_>imo that 'black' looks kinda meh though :p
15:14<Eddi|zuHause>do we have a "colour-blind" mode for the graphs?
15:15<TrueBrain>_dp_: best of the worst, I would say :)
15:16<Eddi|zuHause>i mean, there could be a setting (*ughh*) like for the minimap colours
15:16<_dp_>also, just noticed ff dark bg is actually a noise instead of a single color
15:17<_dp_>had a bit of wtf moment when I color picked it to be the same color and tried to figure out why it looks different xD
15:17<TrueBrain>I pressed "reopen pull request", but nothing happened, lol
15:17<Eddi|zuHause>options could be "dark background, light colours", "light background, dark colours", "monochrome"
15:18<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #8557: Change: darken the background of all graph to increase contrast https://git.io/JtexM
15:18<TrueBrain>ugh, should be a draft PR
15:19<TrueBrain>there we go :)
15:20<_dp_>is it too much to ask for antialiasing on lines? :)
15:20<TrueBrain>PRs are still very welcome :)
15:21<_dp_>8bpp makes aa tricky :(
15:21<TrueBrain>see it as a challenge :P
15:21<TrueBrain>or, just remove the 8bpp blitter! :D
15:22<_dp_>yeah, that's probably the right thing to do
15:22<_dp_>will allow aa and opacity
15:22<TrueBrain>I honestly wonder if there is a downside of doing that :P
15:23<Samu>_dp_, did I use tuple correctly? https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/8398/files asking especially regarding emplace_back
15:23<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stormcone commented on pull request #8006: Codechange: Increase scrollbar length limit to UINT_MAX and make their length properly unsigned https://git.io/JtexN
15:23<_dp_>also tree shading
15:23<TrueBrain>seem LordAro was hiding 2 mistakes in that PR :D
15:23<_dp_>Samu, looks fine to me
15:24<Samu>nice, thx
15:25<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 approved pull request #8455: Unified GUI buttons for renaming and scrolling to entities https://git.io/Jtexj
15:25<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8006: Codechange: Increase scrollbar length limit to UINT_MAX and make their length properly unsigned https://git.io/Jtepe
15:25<andythenorth>if you change cargo rate graph, pls send message
15:25<TrueBrain>glx: \o/
15:25*andythenorth will have a lot of colouring to do
15:25<andythenorth>'probably fine'
15:28*andythenorth considers 'camo' livery
15:29<andythenorth>vehicle blends into background perfectly
15:29<andythenorth>stealth mode
15:29<_dp_>TrueBrain, probably a good time to remove 8bpp, if no one misses it in rc/beta call it fine ;)
15:29<_dp_>though it would be fun to have no perfectly correct blitter at all xD
15:30<andythenorth>can we have micropayments in the game?
15:30<supermop_Home>andy i forgot to consider Great Northern from Twin Peaks for Hotel inspiration
15:30<andythenorth>"unlock more vehicle liveries for £0.99
15:30<Wolf01>Only if you add lootboxes
15:30<andythenorth>oof
15:30<TrueBrain>lootboxes would fix the game, yes!
15:30*andythenorth dislikes lootboxes greatly
15:31<andythenorth>Blitz very big on them
15:31<andythenorth>Lootbox: £40, tank drop chance 4%
15:31<andythenorth>preys on people who can't maths
15:31<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8539: Graph Window - Colors of the mauve, dark green and purple companies are barely visible https://git.io/JLpHF
15:31<supermop_Home>how a bout a mystery box sent to your house that may contain legos or a OO scale train?
15:32<supermop_Home>andythenorth i think they are a legal way to prey on people addicted to gambling who might be underage
15:32<Wolf01>I want a full scale train
15:32<supermop_Home>Wolf01 maybe there is a very small change of that
15:33<supermop_Home>sell 1000 boxes for $100 USD, one box gets a locomotive and the rest get a sticker of the locomotive
15:33<TrueBrain>lol, graphs look weird for the first year of operating .. and with emscripten, it takes for-ever to fast-forward 1 year :D
15:34<TrueBrain>year = quarter, typing hard
15:35<+michi_cc>The keys are like right next to each other :P
15:36<TrueBrain>well, my brain-keyboard interface is acting up
15:36<TrueBrain>my brain is quicker than my hands, really annoying :D
15:36<_dp_>TrueBrain, have you tried using darker grid lines on dark bg btw?
15:36<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #8548: Dump info console commands https://git.io/Jtepy
15:37<andythenorth>I really don't want lootboxes for liveries
15:37<TrueBrain>_dp_: I did not; I was happy with this :P
15:37<andythenorth>but can GS do lootboxes
15:37*andythenorth wonders
15:37<TrueBrain>_dp_: I am going to leave it completely to LC-Zorg how to tune colours .. it is pretty clear to me he knows a lot more about UI/UX design than I do, so yeah .. :)
15:39<Wolf01>Just random buy something in players' depots
15:41<_dp_>just embed browser already and use highcharts :p
15:42<andythenorth>why are we talking about graphs instead of lootboxes?
15:42<frosch123>andythenorth: you spend too much time on discord
15:42<andythenorth>discord is fun
15:42<andythenorth>a current fun game, how many times a day "JGR has added x"
15:43<andythenorth>where x is a feature in basegame
15:43<TrueBrain>_dp_: that would be lovely :)
15:43<TrueBrain>when is the PR done? :P :P
15:43<TrueBrain>hover-over effect, proper tooltip, scaling by clicking
15:43<TrueBrain>those things would be nice :D
15:43<frosch123>ah, i only considered adding a http server to ottd for attaching a grf debugger
15:43*_dp_ has enough stuff to do in 2021 :p
15:44<frosch123>but attaching grafana also works
15:44<TrueBrain>grafana, you go even further :P
15:44<TrueBrain>well, the game runs in emscripten, so why not reverse it: make it browser only, makes embedding of these things easier :P
15:44<TrueBrain>also solves most things related to security :D
15:46<TrueBrain>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/milestone/3 <- almost down to 2 ... :D
15:46<TrueBrain>but I guess the beta has to wait till we got code signing functional
15:47<frosch123>that could mean anything between "tomorrow" and "in 3 years" :p
15:47<TrueBrain>very true
15:47<TrueBrain>we can also just release beta1 soon-ish, and beta2 when ever signing is done :P
15:47<TrueBrain>or RC1, what-ever
15:48<TrueBrain>for some reason, the best addition to 1.11 for me is going to be the new buttons in the window ... it feels so much cleaner :)
15:48<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #8548: Dump info console commands https://git.io/JtehZ
15:49<andythenorth>creates space for vehicle livery button as well :)
15:49<+glx>https://github.com/python-pillow/Pillow/issues/5203#issuecomment-758210195 <-- I guess it's ok if they use our images in their regression
15:49*andythenorth draws paint scheme icon
15:50<TrueBrain>glx: I guess it is not compatible with GPLv2, so the author has to explicitly say "yes" to that, I guess :) (but you knew that I think :D)
15:50<TrueBrain>+already
15:51<TrueBrain>wait, today is 2020.01.11 .. we should release beta1 today .. 1.11 .. get it? Dammit :P Missed opportunities!!
15:51<LordAro>TrueBrain: there's still time!
15:51<TrueBrain>but there are PRs to merge! :)
15:51<TrueBrain>and PRs to fix .. that don't crash the game :P
15:51<LordAro>they can be in beta2!
15:51<TrueBrain>*looking at you LordAro :P*
15:51<LordAro>D:
15:52<TrueBrain>I clicked "Content Service"
15:52<TrueBrain>it crashed
15:52<TrueBrain>:D
15:52<Timberwolf>Heh. beta1, all it does is crash on launch.
15:52<TrueBrain>sounds like a successful beta to me :D
15:53<Timberwolf>I could contribute one of my accidents where I made v->next point to v in the vehicle chain, that went well.
15:53<TrueBrain>:D
15:54<frosch123>i saw some c library that used that convention to terminate linked lists
15:54<frosch123>0 was used to detect invalid/uninitialised
15:55<frosch123>but when people did not use the correct loop macros :p
15:56<TrueBrain>haha
15:56<TrueBrain>at least use "1" for termination in that case
15:56<TrueBrain>I mean ... all pointers in the first page give the same error, so that is all fine :)
15:56<TrueBrain>in = to, what-ever
15:58<_dp_>at least with v != v->next mistakes should be easy to catch on a first run :p
15:58<frosch123>anyway, favorite 1.11 change is the "show group name in vehicle title bar instead of 'train'". i like ideas that anyone could have had in the past 15 years
15:58<frosch123>favorite community contribution was the "detault settings discussion"
15:58<frosch123>that really worked. the others less so
15:59<TrueBrain>yeah, that discussion was surprisingly productive :)
15:59<TrueBrain>I hope GitHub soon iterates over Discussions ... would be nice :)
16:02<_2TallTyler>I want Discussions in the mobile app too. They are useful.
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16:03<Eddi|zuHause> <TrueBrain> wait, today is 2020.01.11 <- you got an obiwan there
16:03<TrueBrain>oops
16:03<andythenorth>my experience, selling a discussions tool for money, is that about 2 in 10 work
16:04<andythenorth>and 1 in 10 really works
16:04<TrueBrain>and yours is ...... ? :D
16:04<TrueBrain>:P :D
16:05<andythenorth>my discussions fell into the 80% fail
16:05<andythenorth>unless you mean 'what is your tool?'
16:05<TrueBrain>I mean, how you write it, is that 1 out of 10 discussion tools only work
16:06<TrueBrain>so I was wondering where your tool was on that spectrum :D
16:06<andythenorth>nah, 1 in 10 of topics :P
16:06<TrueBrain>context is everything my friend :D
16:06<andythenorth>I mean, words and things
16:06<andythenorth>could be better
16:07<TrueBrain>its funny how much difficulties AIs have to find context .. such nice papers written about that
16:07<TrueBrain>language is so vastly more complex than we think :)
16:07<Samu>Check Online Content, Search external websites - what is this button for
16:07<andythenorth>we tried doing LSA on people's opinions about stuff, like 'do they like this film'
16:07<andythenorth>we thought it would be hard and fail
16:07<Samu>it feels outdated
16:07<andythenorth>it is and does
16:09<frosch123>the "fun" part of selling a "discussion tool" is when you also use it internally
16:09<frosch123>then users have direct contact to developers, and the larger the company, the more people who do not know how to give constructive feedback :)
16:09<andythenorth>ours doesn't have enough cat gifs
16:10<andythenorth>that was my conclusion
16:10<frosch123>cat emoji style?
16:10<andythenorth>unicode support demanded
16:10<andythenorth>maybe it should just be a discord client :P
16:10<frosch123>unicode-modifier "cat": draw the following emoji with a cat face
16:11<Timberwolf>AI is mostly an engine for efficiently repeating what happened in the past.
16:11<frosch123>Timberwolf: that does not exclude humans being the same
16:11<andythenorth>T-shirt slogan!
16:11<andythenorth>both
16:11<Timberwolf>Heh.
16:11<andythenorth>front and back
16:11<Timberwolf>Yes.
16:11<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] tpetazzoni commented on issue #8054: Automatic spacing in timetables not working https://git.io/JvFcD
16:11<Timberwolf>Humans are an engine for inefficiently repeating what happened in the past, while being annoyed about it.
16:12<andythenorth>oof very hard not to troll that issue
16:12<andythenorth>'just get JGR' :P
16:12<Timberwolf>That's 2020. The 2021 version is "but it worked in Joker's"
16:13<andythenorth>oh yeah, that raises the game
16:13<andythenorth>Well played
16:13<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Kuhnovic updated pull request #8550: Feature: "Remove all industries" button in scenario editor https://git.io/JLhwv
16:13*andythenorth more t-shirts
16:13<andythenorth>OpenTTD merchandise store?
16:13<andythenorth>hmm, forget livery spec, time to integrate shopify
16:14<Timberwolf>andythenorth: Can I have a "it looks off next to the ground tiles"?
16:14<andythenorth>Timberwolf that's all yours
16:14<andythenorth>I think red baseball caps might be cheap now?
16:14<andythenorth>Make Abase Great Again
16:16<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 merged pull request #8455: Unified GUI buttons for renaming and scrolling to entities https://git.io/JLyG8
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16:17<andythenorth>\o/
16:17<frosch123>what do you think, will i find the eints button?
16:18<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Kuhnovic commented on pull request #8550: Feature: "Remove all industries" button in scenario editor https://git.io/Jtejt
16:18<frosch123>i pressed a button, let's see what happens
16:19<TrueBrain>frosch123: I am sure you are capable :)
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16:19<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on pull request #8548: Dump info console commands https://git.io/Jtejq
16:19<TrueBrain>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/8054 <- I do not understand the issue ... but I also realised I do not understand timetables :D
16:19<frosch123>TrueBrain: definitely, the question is just "capable of breaking things" or what
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16:21<TrueBrain>well, mostly, I do not see what is suppose to work on Windows that is not on Linux (as I somewhat doubt that is the case)
16:21<andythenorth>TrueBrain "Automatic spacing in timetables not working "
16:21<andythenorth>you can stop with the title
16:21<andythenorth>I have never seen it working
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16:21<andythenorth>even when following explicit instructions
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16:21<TrueBrain>that is way too easy to dismiss the bug over that
16:21<andythenorth>and even when it is working, it doesn't seem to do what players want
16:21<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison updated pull request #8548: Dump info console commands https://git.io/JLhan
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16:22<frosch123>TrueBrain: i would expect that start-date thingie only works when the vehicles are not-stopped. but i also do not use that feature, so no idea
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16:23<Heiki>ohh, so many new strings to translate
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16:23<andythenorth>I would favour throwing it out in favour of https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/8342 or JGR's implementation
16:23<andythenorth>but I am a bit of an arsonist
16:23<TrueBrain>I am running Linux client and Windows client side-by-side (thank you WSL2), and I do not see any difference in behaviour
16:23<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master https://git.io/JtejW
16:23<@DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
16:24<frosch123>5 minutes, i got worried
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16:24<TrueBrain>frosch123: it is very slow :)
16:24<TrueBrain>andythenorth: I am not interested in if timetables are broken or not; the interesting part is that the user sees a difference between OSes
16:25<_dp_>if there was a difference players would desync constantly
16:26<andythenorth>I'll try the save on mac
16:26<andythenorth>I never ever saw timetable magic working, no matter how many times I pressed the magic button
16:28<Samu>https://wiki.openttd.org/Timetable where is wiki?
16:29<Xaroth>https://wiki.openttd.org/en/Manual/Timetable ?
16:29<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8054: Automatic spacing in timetables not working https://git.io/JvFcD
16:29<Samu>ah, ok thanks
16:29<+glx>TrueBrain: pillow uses HPND and it's listed as compatible with GPL on gnu.org
16:30<TrueBrain>glx: owh really? Interesting :D Well, that makes it easier ;) Still, nicest thing to do is ask the original author if it is okay, I guess :)
16:37<frosch123>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenGFX/blob/master/docs/authoroverview.csv <- there is a detailed author overview for ogfx, if you need
16:38<frosch123>but probably too complicated
16:39<andythenorth>how do I know if timetables are working?
16:40<andythenorth>there are 4 buses, sometimes they queue, sometimes they don't
16:40<TrueBrain>especially as they basically want to relicense the 3 files, that might be nice; I guess they don't want to add the GPLv2 license for these 3 files glx :)
16:42<+glx>files are from opengfx+ not opengfx
16:42<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] tpetazzoni commented on issue #8054: Automatic spacing in timetables not working https://git.io/JvFcD
16:44<TrueBrain>either I was very unclear, or people just don't read .. shrug :P
16:44<frosch123>https://github.com/python-pillow/Pillow/blob/master/Tests/fonts/LICENSE.txt <- they list licenses for fonts
16:45<frosch123>they have similar license.txt in other folders, but not in the main folder
16:48<Samu>question about this button https://i.imgur.com/nCyK1nX.png
16:48<Samu>why does it exist
16:49<Samu>the site doesn't look maintained
16:50<frosch123>TrueBrain: going by that 3rd comment, they ctrl key is broken on linux
16:50*andythenorth wondered
16:50<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #7615: "medium_font" setting is not applied properly in korean https://git.io/fjuBP
16:51<TrueBrain>frosch123: well, there is an odd thing, that if you ctrl+click the button for one vehicle, it doesn't show on the others. If you click it on another, it resets the first. No clue if that is intentional, but ctrl+click works otherwise just fine
16:51<TrueBrain>but the report is just very unclear to me :P
16:51<TrueBrain>especially the linux vs windows :)
16:53<TrueBrain>if ctrl is not working I would expect that to be an issue in more places, honestly
16:55<TrueBrain>I love the "you can clearly see" in the font issue .. as I just go: I can see what exactly?! :P :D
16:57<TrueBrain>lol @ "git log" .. "timetable", first hit, 2020 .. next hit, 2015
16:57<TrueBrain>:D
17:00<Eddi|zuHause>that means nothing happened in 4 years :p
17:03<+glx>hmm if my search work is correct, it seems DanMacK is the author of the graphics (https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ogfxplus/repository/entry/docs/readme.ptxt)
17:05<frosch123>huh, what repo is that?
17:05<+glx>opengfx+
17:05<frosch123>there are individual repos for ogfx+trains and ogfx+rvs
17:05<frosch123>no idea what that one is
17:08<TrueBrain>some more debugging between Windows and Linux, they both equally do weird shit with timetables, depending a bit where orders of vehicles were etci :P
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17:09<+glx>TrueBrain: undefined behaviour of compiler ?
17:09<TrueBrain>no, they are both equally sucky
17:09<TrueBrain>no difference to find
17:09<+glx>ah, that's a good thing ;)
17:09<TrueBrain>equally is important in that sentence
17:10<LordAro>TrueBrain: have you not found the "if (!linux()) { do_separate(); } code yet?
17:12<TrueBrain>:D
17:12<TrueBrain>well, if timetables work, it sure does look like magic :D
17:13<frosch123>night
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17:16<+glx>so I think I'll just ask DanMacK for the permission to use the include the files in pillow
17:16<+glx>s/use the//
17:16<TrueBrain>sounds like the right thing to do :)
17:16<TrueBrain>otherwise tell them to add a license file for those files :D
17:21<andythenorth>is nap?
17:21<andythenorth>glx if it is Dan he won't mind
17:22<andythenorth>guaranteed, I will say the sorrys and pay the lawyer fees if I'm wrong
17:22<+glx>still nicer to ask
17:23<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8054: Automatic spacing in timetables not working https://git.io/JvFcD
17:23<TrueBrain>andythenorth: that is -not- how licencing works silly bee :)
17:24<TrueBrain>for sure that bug is not a linux vs windows issue
17:24<TrueBrain>it could be an SDL issue
17:24<TrueBrain>but everything is game-play wise working as expected
17:26<TrueBrain>that timetable window is horrible in terms of UX
17:26<andythenorth>glx you can DM danmack in forums and see if he replies
17:26<+glx>that's what I'm doing
17:26<TrueBrain>some buttons trigger on what you selected in the list, but it is not like the top row or the bottom
17:26<andythenorth>I did look in his sig if he had anything about licensing
17:26<TrueBrain>no, the left 4 are ..
17:27<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: when was the last time i said the whole order GUI is in dire need of a restructuring? :p
17:27*andythenorth tries really hard not to improve Truebrain's line
17:27*andythenorth will get kicked
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17:27<andythenorth>nope, can't help myself: "that timetable window is horrible"
17:27<TrueBrain>andythenorth: what-ever he would have in his sig, it wouldn't matter; we can not relicense his work without his permission :D
17:27<TrueBrain>well, there is horrible, and there is: this is just an absolutely fuck-fest :P
17:28<TrueBrain>sorry to who-ever made it, I am sure you did your at most with the tools you had
17:28<TrueBrain>but this is so counter-intuitive :)
17:28<andythenorth>well I think it has the problem of not stepping back and asking 'why'
17:28<andythenorth>full stop, just why?
17:28<TrueBrain>I don'ti care about the feature itself; I am bitching about the UI :)
17:28<andythenorth>yes but the UI is usually just lipstick on underlying concept
17:28<TrueBrain>some simply things could drasticly improve what is going on, honestly :)
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17:29<andythenorth>the underlying concept makes no sense at all
17:29<TrueBrain>2 buttons have ctrl modifiers
17:29<TrueBrain>others 6 do not
17:29<TrueBrain>4 react on selected order, others do not
17:29<andythenorth>nobody has ever explained how the vehicles run faster or slower to stay on time
17:29<TrueBrain>if only when you press CTRL the text would change
17:29<andythenorth>I still don't get that mechanic
17:29<TrueBrain>that would help
17:29<TrueBrain>a line between "based on order selection" and other buttons would help
17:30<TrueBrain>when you press "autofill", that the text changing into "Autofilling ..." or something would help
17:30<TrueBrain>so many little things that would make the UI more .. understandable :)
17:30<LordAro>andythenorth: afaik, they just wait longer at the station, rather than actually moving any slower
17:30<TrueBrain>but mostly, this ctrl-modifier shit is just shit :P
17:31<LordAro>but like most people, i've never really got it to work successfully
17:31<TrueBrain>"Ctrl+click to try to keep waiting times"
17:31<TrueBrain>how do you mean, "try"?
17:31<TrueBrain>what does this tell me? :D
17:31<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: they can't move faster
17:31<andythenorth>well how the hell do they stay on time then?
17:31<LordAro>poorly
17:32<LordAro>or wait a really long time until they're ontime again
17:32<Eddi|zuHause>by leaving as soon as they can, if they have waitingtime on stations
17:32<TrueBrain>"Reset the lateness counter, so the vehicle will be on time" <- what magic button is this? :D
17:32<Eddi|zuHause>that's why after autofill you have to manually increase station waiting time
17:32<Eddi|zuHause>otherwise they can never catch up
17:32<andythenorth>wat?
17:32<andythenorth>so autofill...doesn't?
17:32<andythenorth>I mean it's not that I hate the feature, in case irc makes me seem angry about it
17:33<andythenorth>I just think it's unbelievably lol
17:33<Eddi|zuHause>i think i requested an "autofill should add 20%" setting, but that was denied
17:33<andythenorth>it's a flawed implementation of a poor concept with a crap UI
17:33<TrueBrain>it might be a good feature, just poorly documented in-game what you can expect from it :)
17:33<TrueBrain>like, my dates are now red ... no clue what it means
17:33<TrueBrain>I have no real feedback over it
17:33<TrueBrain>sometimes it is green
17:33<TrueBrain>that must be important
17:33<TrueBrain>but than only 1 is green
17:34<Eddi|zuHause>also, autofill with empty stations is "broken", because it'll underestimate the waiting time
17:34*andythenorth whistles innocently https://preview.openttd.org/pr8342/
17:34<TrueBrain>Finances UI has a bug where if you are in the red, the most left 2 pixels drop off your balance
17:34<TrueBrain>looks funny
17:35<TrueBrain>https://pasteboard.co/JJcRqnO.png <- notice the lack of shadow on the 9? :D
17:37<TrueBrain>spotting the important bugs here!
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17:39<LordAro>that is important!
17:39<andythenorth>I made a helpful picture :D https://grf.farm/images/lololol.png
17:39<Eddi|zuHause>is that above or below missing earrings in importance?
17:40<andythenorth>oops my screenshot failed to include the PR number for 8342 (after JGR)
17:40<andythenorth>silly andythenorth
17:40<TrueBrain>andythenorth: automatic separation and timetables are 2 different things; the latter can do the first, sort of, but it also does more :)
17:40<andythenorth>yes!
17:40<Eddi|zuHause>automatic separation tends to have effects that backfire in traffic jams
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17:41<andythenorth>discord says it's perfect! :D
17:41<andythenorth>I broke 8342
17:41<andythenorth>but not reproducibly
17:41<TrueBrain>do stations have a window where you can see expected arrival times?
17:41<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, i'm sure it's "well tested"
17:42<Eddi|zuHause>but i've never found a version of "automatic separation" that i didn't immediately want to disable
17:42<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: there were at least 2 patches for that
17:42<TrueBrain>I am not surprised :D
17:42<andythenorth>there's a realtime departure board in JGR
17:42<andythenorth>not sure what it does, but it looks fancy
17:43<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: are you sure you want to descend into the rabbit hole that is timetable patches? :p
17:43<andythenorth>they're much demanded
17:43<andythenorth>this is a big thing currently https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=87840
17:43<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but they also might make you insane
17:44<TrueBrain>andythenorth: always when I open these topics, I close them
17:44<Eddi|zuHause>as they're tied into controversial issues like daylength and 24h clocks
17:44<TrueBrain>there is nothing there for me to udnerstand what the topic is about
17:44<TrueBrain>lot of text ... but reading forum text is annoying as fuck
17:44<andythenorth>TL;DR
17:44<TrueBrain>people should add more pictures
17:44<TrueBrain>and forum should become more 2021 styled :)
17:45<Eddi|zuHause>and people trying to make realtime realistic networks where daylength is so long to match the 24h cycle, and rebuilding real s-bahn networks with original timetables
17:45<andythenorth>oh do you not have the default PHPBB theme option?
17:45*andythenorth changed the forums to some standard theme 10 years ago, and never looked back
17:45<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause making exact replicas is very in vogue
17:46<andythenorth>1:1 daylength and realistic timetables
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17:47<Eddi|zuHause>on that note, i'm very in favour of a 24h clock, as it decouples timetables from weird date quirks like uneven month lengths, so you can actually set up repeating patterns without going insane
17:48<andythenorth>https://www.reddit.com/r/openttd/comments/klo5ay/im_looking_for_a_newgrfpatch_that_allows_the_game/
17:48<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause just use JGR
17:49<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: i've got so many savegames from various patchpacks that i'm unsure i'm ever going to be able to load again
17:49<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] tpetazzoni commented on issue #8054: Automatic spacing in timetables not working https://git.io/JvFcD
17:49<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: I did not realise it yet, but yes, the dates in timetable does make me a bit insane when I want to use it
17:49<TrueBrain>that is not helping, that way of presenting the information :)
17:51<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause https://grf.farm/images/JGR-clock-not-date.png
17:52<andythenorth>now I've switched, nearly everything we've talked about for last 10 years....JGR has just....done
17:52<Eddi|zuHause>how do i tell google that "itim" is not a misspelling of "item"?
17:52<andythenorth>templates are done
17:52<andythenorth>partial loading is sort of done
17:52<andythenorth>autoseparate is done
17:53<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: in the pre-JGR eras, the time could be shown as both date AND time
17:54<Eddi|zuHause>because, i like the date, and it's useful for putting savegames in sequential order
17:54<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause ? https://grf.farm/images/JGR-clock-with-date.png
17:55<andythenorth>custom bridgeheads
17:55<andythenorth>bridges over stations
17:55<andythenorth>mac performance
17:55<andythenorth>selective load / unload so cdist actually works completely
17:55<andythenorth>the only problems are that a one-man project isn't long-term sustainable
17:56<andythenorth>and I can't use anything in JGRPP without asking discord for help
17:56<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: which is why i have a collection of a half dozen savegames from equally many patchpacks
17:56<andythenorth>+1
17:56<andythenorth>but if you wanted the feature...there it is, working implementation to look at
17:57<andythenorth>templates in JGR is really quite instructive
17:57<Eddi|zuHause>i've played with this feature long before JGR came around...
17:57<andythenorth>(template vehicle consists)
17:58<Eddi|zuHause>it was "working" alright, many many years ago. just the UI was growing ever more horrible
17:59<andythenorth>patchpacks ftw
18:00<Eddi|zuHause>i was putting some hopes into https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=63721
18:00<Eddi|zuHause>but it might be a bit over the top?
18:01<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause my google understands "Itim"
18:01<andythenorth>but I have an improved post-brexit google
18:01<andythenorth>my data is now managed according to California law
18:02<Eddi|zuHause>there's also https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=39276
18:04<andythenorth>JGR's is https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=46391
18:04<andythenorth>and https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=49956
18:05<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: "autoseparation" is not the same thing
18:05<Eddi|zuHause>really, i'd say "autoseparation" is the opposite of "timetables"
18:05<andythenorth>so it's not just me thinking that then
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18:06<Eddi|zuHause>autoseparation is a "just make it work" button
18:06<andythenorth>I think that's the exact conceptual difference
18:06<Eddi|zuHause>whereas timetables is a "i want to carefully adjust everything until it works"
18:06<andythenorth>which is why bundling the two things together just seems like head->desk
18:07<andythenorth>in my silly opinion
18:10<Timberwolf>I want the annoying middle option, "let me schedule how long the station stops are, everything else automagically works"
18:11<Eddi|zuHause>Timberwolf: how is that supposed to work, if varying station wait times are the only thing that can be used to resynchronize vehicles?
18:12<Timberwolf>Mostly as a baseline. Like, "once these are separated, this is how long they should wait at each stop"
18:13<Eddi|zuHause>i'm not sure, did we add a "apply this wait time to all stations" button?
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18:34<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro updated pull request #8006: Codechange: Increase scrollbar length limit to UINT_MAX and make their length properly unsigned https://git.io/Jv8Vk
18:43<_dp_>ok, I found my townsim bug, now 8507 makes no noticeable difference
19:12<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LC-Zorg commented on issue #8551: Flat maps of arctic and tropical climates are completely inaccessible https://git.io/JLh6Z
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20:46<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LC-Zorg commented on pull request #8557: Change: darken the background of all graph to increase contrast https://git.io/JtvT8
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23:58<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac commented on pull request #8552: Feature: Prevent vehicles to unload cargo in implicit stops in cargodist mode if the cargo is not accepted in such station https://git.io/Jtvmb
---Logclosed Tue Jan 12 00:00:51 2021