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#openttd IRC Logs for 2021-01-16

---Logopened Sat Jan 16 00:00:57 2021
01:33<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] orudge opened pull request #8579: Change: Label Mac builds as "macos" instead of "macosx"
01:34<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/website] orudge opened pull request #182: Fix: Add Universal description for modern macOS binaries
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03:57<TrueBrain>orudge: so a German person created an info@ account for Steam :P
03:57<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #8579: Change: Label Mac builds as "macos" instead of "macosx"
03:59<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on pull request #182: Fix: Add Universal description for modern macOS binaries
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04:50<andythenorth>Timberwolf multiple liveries using company colour combination rules, or not playing :D
05:01<orudge>TrueBrain: apparently so. Steam's e-mails don't always seem to be getting through though.
05:02<orudge>Can't actually register a new account on another address
05:02<orudge>Will have a try again
05:04<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/website] orudge commented on pull request #182: Fix: Add Universal description for modern macOS binaries
05:04<TrueBrain>orudge: you can't just recoveri that account?
05:04<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] orudge merged pull request #8579: Change: Label Mac builds as "macos" instead of "macosx"
05:05<TrueBrain>orudge: what I mean, that we add to the description: "(Universal, including Intel and Silicon support)" or something
05:05<orudge>TrueBrain: that's what I tried to do
05:05<orudge>Don't think that's necessary, honestly
05:05<TrueBrain>when someone arrives at the Get Info dialog, it is a bit late :D
05:06<TrueBrain>k :)
05:06<orudge>Universal is standard terminologh
05:06<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain approved pull request #182: Fix: Add Universal description for modern macOS binaries
05:06<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain dismissed a review for pull request #182: Fix: Add Universal description for modern macOS binaries
05:06<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain approved pull request #182: Fix: Add Universal description for modern macOS binaries
05:06<TrueBrain>orudge: we will direct complaints to you, no worries :D
05:07<TrueBrain>personally I like promoting that we build for Silicon, but, meh :)
05:07<orudge>Happy to receive them ;)
05:07<orudge>We can do that in the release announcement :)
05:07<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/website] orudge merged pull request #182: Fix: Add Universal description for modern macOS binaries
05:36<andythenorth>what shall we do today Pinky?
05:39<TrueBrain>orudge: I double-checked, the password for info@ for steam was never written down in any of the usual places, it seems :(
05:42<orudge>I managed to reset the password
05:42<orudge>It just wouldn't let me log in
05:42<TrueBrain>what is the error?
05:42<orudge>Haven't translated the German e-mail yet
05:42<orudge>It needed a verification code
05:42<orudge>which never arrived
05:42<TrueBrain>did you put the password in the usual place?
05:43<orudge>The new usual plaxd
05:43<TrueBrain>you sure? :D
05:43<orudge>However, that account is registered in DE, not sure if it can be changed to GB
05:43<orudge>since our company is in GB
05:43<orudge>well, unless I forgot to hit Save
05:43<orudge>which is entirely possible :P
05:44<TrueBrain>it is hiding, the Save button
05:44<orudge>Will look into it on Monday
05:44<TrueBrain>I don't like that design
05:44<TrueBrain>well, if I have the password too, I can help you look :) Without it .. not much I can do :P
05:44<TrueBrain>reset it again, at best :D
05:45<orudge>It is in 1password
05:45<orudge>I did save it after all
05:46<TrueBrain>hmm .. in what category?
05:49<orudge>Private, oops
05:50<orudge>In fact I put the Apple password in there too it seems
05:50<TrueBrain>the signing one was in the right place
05:51<TrueBrain>but yeah, by defaults it adds it in private, which is a good thing
05:52<orudge>OK, now moved
05:52<orudge>If we can either get the account moved country (Steam suggests that might happen if you make a purchaes from another country) or close it and open a new one, that will work
05:52<orudge>or just get a new one open - I set up a new e-mail address forwarder to use for that
05:52<orudge>If you can't get it to work I can try a new account next week
05:52<orudge>but now I must head off
05:52<TrueBrain>sounds like a plan
05:52<TrueBrain>cheers :)
05:56<andythenorth>hmm this map is too flat
05:56<TrueBrain>that's what she said!
05:59<TrueBrain>"The account name or password that you have entered is incorrect." lol
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06:17<andythenorth>why is this game still so addictive after 26 years?
06:17*andythenorth curious
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06:30<TrueBrain>orudge: if we delete the current account, it will go in "hybernation" for 30 days before it is really deleted :)
06:30<TrueBrain>(I am in btw .. took some effort ..)
06:33<TrueBrain>other than emails being weirdly delayed, but sometimes arrive instantly, the account seems in good health. It is indeed linked to Germany, but I do not think that matters for the Partner signup
06:34<TrueBrain>I did have to reset the password again, as for some reason the one in 1password was not working. It is now :P The initial german email is just "your password has changed, if this was you, no action required" email
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06:42<Eddi|zuHause><TrueBrain> orudge: so a German person created an info@ account for Steam :P <-- my guess would be that was planetmaker
06:48<orudge>Thanks TrueBrain
06:49<orudge>Can try partner signup on Monday :)
06:55<TrueBrain>w00p :)
06:56<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc updated pull request #7744: Draft Feature: OpenGL video driver
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07:15<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc updated pull request #7744: Draft Feature: OpenGL video driver
07:15<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #7744: Draft Feature: OpenGL video driver
07:17<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8573: Add tile parameter for GSCompany.ChangeBankBalance to show text effect if needed
07:20<TrueBrain>michi_cc: linux now fails compiling :(
07:21<Samu>there's something in this PR that just doesn't feel right.
07:22<Samu>a very flat 256x256 desert map with a max height of 29, it looks worse than mountainous
07:23<Samu>try a max height of 255
07:26<LordAro>Samu: we need more exact than a feeling
07:26<LordAro>TB acknowledges it's not perfect, but it's better than it was previously
07:28<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8578: Fix: Stopped ships shouldn't block depots
07:31<andythenorth>ok the problem with 8513 in desert and height 255 is that it's not placing rainforest with
07:31<andythenorth>a 256x256 map
07:32<TrueBrain>andythenorth: fully expected and sadly by current design
07:32<TrueBrain>it takes 128 tiles to get to the 255 height ... so yeah, that is a bit of an issue :D
07:32<TrueBrain>we should simplify the normal "start game" dialog, and allow more tuning in an "advanced" mode, honestly .. the way it is now wired in is impossible :)
07:33<TrueBrain>the desert climate is the only one which really has this issue btw, the others work differently
07:33<TrueBrain>as .. why do the same thing 4 times, if you can at least do 1 time something COMPLETELY different :P
07:33<LordAro>having played around with arctic a bit, i think it's fine
07:34<TrueBrain>desert is fine too if you keep the heightlevel within the dimensions of your map :)
07:34<TrueBrain>(it is the only one that scales something depending on the max heightlevel)
07:34<TrueBrain>not even TGP scaled with that
07:35<TrueBrain>euh, 128 tiles earlier is 255 tiles .. no clue why I divided that by 2 :P
07:35<TrueBrain>I think a 1k map is the first that can reach 255 in height :P
07:35*LordAro tries generating a 4k map with 255 height just for fun
07:36*andythenorth thinks that desert is fundamentally flawed in current design for TGP
07:36<andythenorth>never figured out how
07:36<TrueBrain>I just don't understand max-height .. I understand it was like: well, we might as well do 256 too, but .. it makes no sense
07:36<TrueBrain>TGP, in normal climate, only generates up to 90-ish in height
07:36<TrueBrain>so what are you going to do with the other 160?
07:36<andythenorth>le oof
07:36<TrueBrain>for desert, it adds 1/4th to that value, so it can generate up to ..
07:36<andythenorth>it got merged afaik because forums were saying 'game is dead' a lot
07:37<TrueBrain>@calc 90 + (256 / 4)
07:37<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: 154
07:37<andythenorth>not sure there was any other reason
07:37<TrueBrain>but it cannot get any higher really .. so why allow it? Gives a false sense of what is happening
07:37<andythenorth>TrueBrain btw I don't think desert means 8513 is wrong, just trying to turn Samu's 'feeling' into a fact
07:37<TrueBrain>andythenorth: I understand :) 8513 fixes more than it breaks, so I am all good :)
07:38<andythenorth>there is no equivalent problem in arctic
07:38<TrueBrain>so I was thinking: let go of max-height (just make it always 250 or what-ever). Make "terrain types" like flat, hilly, etc with fixes values. Allow anyone to "override" that value in advanced mode, to set it to what-ever it wants
07:38<TrueBrain>that way TGP can generate landscape up to 250
07:38<andythenorth>maybe I should try my 'use temperate for tropic' patch a 3rd time :P
07:38<TrueBrain>if you want to be REALLY silly :P
07:38<LordAro>oof, fully zoomed out 4k map is not fast on this laptop
07:38<LordAro>and that's without anything except terrain
07:38<andythenorth>it really just is better with current tropic TGP rules > dev/null
07:39<TrueBrain>the problem is not TGP perse
07:39<TrueBrain>it is just a combination of weird defaults and non-configurable values
07:39<LordAro>33ms world tick, with occasional 50ms graphical
07:39<TrueBrain>like the "desert height is 1/4th of MAX height"
07:39<TrueBrain>but okay, we can bitch about this all day .. it has been broken for a few years now .. clearly nobody cares enough :D
07:40<TrueBrain>I might mock up some UIs to reduce the problem soon :)
07:40<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8566: Move "town name" selection into map generator GUI
07:40<andythenorth>original generation has 'interesting' issues with height level 255 in tropic also
07:40<frosch123>TrueBrain: the default value of max-height is 64 or so. 250 is not really wanted
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07:41<frosch123>but yes, if max-height is a lot higher than the landscape really is, stuff breaks
07:41<LordAro>obligatory: what does JGR do?
07:41<andythenorth>with height level 255 on 256x256, original generator makes mangrove swamps of rainforest; rest is desert
07:41<andythenorth>with height level 15 on 25x256, original generator makes 50% rainforest, 50% desert, in 2 halves of map
07:41<TrueBrain>frosch123: default is 30, hence why I do not understand why you can change that to 8 times that value :P
07:42<frosch123>ah, 30, sounds good
07:42<TrueBrain>but okay .. mostly my issue is, that changing that value gives the suggestion it influences terrain generation
07:42<TrueBrain>for 3 climates, it does not
07:42<TrueBrain>(well, it does, but in an inverse way .. it makes hills being chopped off :P)
07:42<andythenorth>make some original tropic maps :P they're quite cool
07:42<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc updated pull request #7744: Draft Feature: OpenGL video driver
07:42<frosch123>i thought it depends on the total map size? like bigger maps can also get taller?
07:42<TrueBrain>frosch123: indeed
07:42<TrueBrain>but never above the max-height
07:43<TrueBrain>so that setting only makes things worse if it is too low
07:43<TrueBrain>never better by making it higher :D
07:43<TrueBrain>such a mind-fuck :D
07:43<andythenorth>why did TGP need to make it's own re-imagination of tropic landscape?
07:43<TrueBrain>basically, max-height of 250 doesn't give you any hills higher as with max-height of 90
07:43<TrueBrain>landscape will be identical between the two
07:44<andythenorth>original 50:50 rainforest:desert maps look really cool :D
07:44<frosch123>TrueBrain: anyway, the idea of exposing that setting was to give add-ons an idea above what high/low means, so they can detect hills independent of snow
07:44<TrueBrain>frosch123: that would only have made sense if it influences the height TGP worked with :)
07:44<frosch123>stuff like variable-snow-line define snow height as percentage of max-height
07:44<TrueBrain>I would have fully understand that
07:44<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8576: Feature: Allow GameScripts to add additional text to Industry view window
07:44<TrueBrain>but as said .. no matter what max-height is, everything above 90 generates the same TGP terrain :)
07:45<TrueBrain>so it seems something got lost between idea and implementation :P
07:45<frosch123>TrueBrain: i mean the setting mixes two things: (1) it affecs the map generation somehow. (2) after map generation it affects what is considered high/low
07:45<andythenorth>8576 might be interesting in future :D
07:45<frosch123>you mostly talk about (1), i talk about (2) :p
07:45<TrueBrain>frosch123: sort of .. my remark is that I would assume that 1 and 2 worked in tandum
07:46<TrueBrain>but 1 works completely independent of 2
07:46<TrueBrain>like .. TOTALLY different :)
07:46<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #7744: Draft Feature: OpenGL video driver
07:47<TrueBrain>with my patch they do effect each other more btw
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07:47<+michi_cc>TrueBrain: More Height Levels was one of those classical "very well tested" patches.
07:48<TrueBrain>michi_cc: okay, that does help, as that means I don't have to be like: huh? but just assume it was forgotten
07:48<TrueBrain>as I think if we link 1 and 2 closer together, it becomes much more sensible :)
07:49<frosch123>wut, what does "|+" mean in a mediawiki table?
07:50<TrueBrain>I suppressed any knowledge of wikitext
07:50<andythenorth>is 'very well tested' a synonym for 'not tested at all'?
07:51<andythenorth>frosch123 does that span the next td?
07:51*andythenorth pure guessing, wikitext makes me want to delete my internet connection
07:52<TrueBrain>right, lets implement SDL+OpenGL in a proper fashion ..
07:52<frosch123>andythenorth: in this case it was "the user probably meant |-, so lets behave like that"
07:52<andythenorth>"le oof'
07:54<andythenorth>is nice
07:55<+michi_cc>andythenorth: I would translate it more like "it is working very well for exactly the things I do".
07:55<TrueBrain>michi_cc: didn't you mention we shouldn't be using double buffer for OpenTTD? As you enable it for win32? (just asking the question :D)
07:55<andythenorth>we should do a lexicon in
07:56<andythenorth>my most recent adventure into 'very well tested' and 'solved' was templates in JGRPP :)
07:56<andythenorth>which it turns out can arbitrarily delete other trains
07:58<andythenorth>maybe tropic is matter of personal taste, but I find this boring to look at and play
07:58<andythenorth>I supposed the original baseset icon is desert though, on map gen screen
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08:01<andythenorth>on height level 255 with TGP, I think it's actually quite cool, there's proper high desert plateaus etc
08:01<andythenorth>not gonna get many farm-type industries though :D
08:03<+michi_cc>TrueBrain: You seem to be right. See how good my memory is :)
08:03<andythenorth>original on 255 height level, quite good mangrove-swamps
08:03<TrueBrain>michi_cc: well, I mostly wonder if I should enable or disable it, if I can find out how that works :P
08:03<+michi_cc>TrueBrain: Funnily, I just tested without double buffering, and is in fact slower even if, thanks to Windows Aero, we don't actually draw to the real screen anywhere.
08:04<+michi_cc>So I guess enable it, unless Linux does things very differently.
08:04<TrueBrain>michi_cc: with some minor refactoring in Win32OpenGL, I can share that between SDL and Win32 .. is that wanted?
08:04<TrueBrain>would mean it becomes a Mixin, I guess
08:05<TrueBrain>and with minor, I mean, I need a function for SwapBuffer and for UpdateSurface, which Windows does different
08:05<TrueBrain>well, let me start with copy/pasting it, we can refactor after
08:05<TrueBrain>easier :)
08:07<+michi_cc>Also, SDL is 99% for Linux and similar, not sure if everything I did in Win32 really holds there.
08:07<TrueBrain>80% of your Win32OpenGL functions I had to copy/paste :P
08:08<TrueBrain>as they deal with setting up the OpenGL backend properly etc :)
08:09<TrueBrain>haha, you skip palette animation during FF :D Not sure that is a bad thing .. :P
08:10<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl updated pull request #8576: Feature: Allow GameScripts to add additional text to Industry view window
08:10<LordAro>TrueBrain: i can see that being useful in an additional "faster forward" mode
08:11<andythenorth>frosch123 is this extra 'scroll to' button intended on vehicle windows? :)
08:11<LordAro>andythenorth: that goes to the station, doesn't it?
08:11<+michi_cc>TrueBrain: Huh, were am I skipping this? Must have been always in win32, because I can't remember changing anything there.
08:12<andythenorth>oh it does?
08:12<TrueBrain>let me rephrase: you are doing it on WM_PAINT events, not on every tick
08:12<andythenorth>did there used to be an eye doing that?
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08:12<LordAro>andythenorth: i've no idea, what's what i'd expect
08:12<andythenorth>don't think I've ever used that button
08:12<+michi_cc>Well, yes, animating the palette outside painting is a bit pointless.
08:13<TrueBrain>not disagreeing at all :D
08:13<andythenorth>no button there in 1.10.2
08:13<andythenorth>what does JGRPP do?
08:13<TrueBrain>just not what SDL seems to be doing currently :)
08:13<LordAro>andythenorth: ctrl click or something?
08:14<frosch123>andythenorth: previously "scroll to destination" was "ctrl+click on status bar". i freed that usage of "ctrl" by adding a button that behaves like the other buttons
08:14<+michi_cc>TrueBrain: It's not my idea though, it was always this way in GDI PaintWindow
08:14*andythenorth tests
08:14<andythenorth>oh and ctrl-click gets a new viewport
08:14<TrueBrain>michi_cc: well, I take the compliment back in that case!
08:15<frosch123>andythenorth: did i add a tooltip?
08:15<frosch123>no idea how useful the extra viewports are. i never use them. but at least it is consistent with the rest
08:15<andythenorth>I'm potato / potato, but at my current UI zoom / font zoom / baseset combo, the vertical alignment is off
08:16<frosch123>andythenorth: true, but that is the fault of the text
08:16<andythenorth>yeah I'm wondering if I can fix it
08:16<frosch123>the text in the title bar is one pixel lower
08:17<andythenorth>I have long-standing idea to put speed at start of destination string
08:17<andythenorth>as the string is often truncated
08:17<andythenorth>wondering if speed should be split to a separate string?
08:17<andythenorth>next to 'stop/start'
08:17<frosch123>was the setting to show the speed in the status bar deleted? :p
08:18<frosch123>otherwise you can add 4 more options to it :p
08:18<andythenorth>nothing in UI settings for it
08:18*andythenorth looks in JGR
08:18<frosch123>i think a separate widget for the speed would waste space
08:19<frosch123>it's no important when vehicle is stopped
08:19<frosch123>and how often do you look at the speed?
08:19<frosch123>only to check whether it reaches its top speed
08:19<andythenorth>not often, but when I want it, I want it
08:20<andythenorth>separate widget I am -1 though
08:20<andythenorth>hmm, does a stopped train in depot need 'ignore signals'?
08:21*andythenorth general vehicle UI questions
08:21<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on pull request #8576: Feature: Allow GameScripts to add additional text to Industry view window
08:21<andythenorth>frosch123 generally removal of all those 'location' buttons is great
08:21<andythenorth>my muscle memory for the UI is temporarily broken, but there's just less...noise
08:22<frosch123>andythenorth: <- probably 10 years old by now :p
08:23<frosch123>andythenorth: two of the buttons change behavior when inside depot
08:23<andythenorth>I have an ulterior motive for that button...for vehicle livery obvs. :P
08:23<frosch123>in theory there is now space to add a button to directly go to the timetable-window, instead of ctrl+orders, but they seem to be unpopular
08:25<andythenorth>frosch123 that truncation seems to valid, is it actually a setting in .cfg?
08:25<andythenorth>to be *
08:26<frosch123> <- it's from 2013, good luck syncing that. the string rendering probably changes twice :p
08:26<_dp_>I know 2 usecases for extra viewports - for fast hq placement in citybuilder and for converting stuff on the entire map :p
08:26<andythenorth>I found vehicle_speed cfg item, wonder what that does :P
08:28<frosch123>hmm, no idea what is in that branch i linked. it looks like half is missing :p
08:29<andythenorth>I did do half of the PR for moving speed to start of string
08:29<andythenorth>then I found....extra cases
08:29<LordAro>ooh, "AltSFX" a thing
08:29*LordAro tries it out
08:30*andythenorth playing the game
08:30<andythenorth>forgot all the coverage stuff got added :)
08:30<andythenorth>and the station areas got fixed :)
08:30<andythenorth>so many good changes last 2 years
08:31*LordAro too
08:31<LordAro>giving tropical a try
08:36<andythenorth>so what should 'livery' icon look like on vehicle window?
08:36<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on pull request #8573: Add tile parameter for GSCompany.ChangeBankBalance to show text effect if needed
08:36<andythenorth>does it need to look distinct from 'company colour' icon in groups window?
08:41<andythenorth>would we ever do a company colour per vehicle?
08:42<+michi_cc>It's not exactly a 'company' colour then anymore, is it? :D
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08:52<andythenorth>it's more like...paint the vehicle
08:54<TrueBrain>michi_cc: you already cherry-picked parts of my work I see? (fixes in opengl.cpp) :D
08:54<TrueBrain>how nice :)
09:03*andythenorth thinks 'set the company colour per vehicle' isn't going to meet the needs of realism newgrfs :P
09:03<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler commented on pull request #8578: Fix: Stopped ships shouldn't block depots
09:07<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: you can just make a group with only 1 vehicle in it...
09:07<andythenorth>can't make a group per wagon though
09:07<andythenorth>they tend to be attached to trains
09:08<andythenorth>that might be an 'interesting' alternative way to do templates though, vehicle group per vehicle in the consist
09:08<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8576: Feature: Allow GameScripts to add additional text to Industry view window
09:09<andythenorth>so current icon ideas for livery
09:09<andythenorth>rainbow unicorn; nyan cat; settings cog
09:09<andythenorth>(discord helped)
09:12<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl updated pull request #8576: Feature: Allow GameScripts to add additional text to Industry view window
09:13<frosch123>does nml allow variables to start with digits?
09:13<frosch123>can i delete "256_persitent_registers" then?
09:14<Eddi|zuHause>wtf is that? :p
09:15<LordAro>i feel like i need a gamemode where terraforming is actually prohibitively expensive, or even impossible
09:15<+michi_cc>TrueBrain: Yes, I took care of your OCD things :)
09:16<TrueBrain>I have many more, don't worry :)
09:17<andythenorth>frosch123 where even is that? :) I don't find it in nml src or wiki
09:17<andythenorth>oh config flags, missed the missing s
09:18<frosch123>orry :)
09:18<andythenorth>happen to all of u
09:18<_dp_>LordAro, can't you just set terra limit?
09:20<LordAro>_dp_: mm, i suppose i could
09:20<LordAro>basically, i think i want "difficulty presets" :)
09:22<andythenorth>GS :P
09:23<_dp_>I'd vote for general game modes like creative(infinite money and magic bulldozer), realistic(all the crap), etc...
09:23<LordAro>GS can't control game settings :p
09:23<LordAro>oh, definitely want a proper sandbox mode too
09:23<LordAro>i wouldn't have thought so...
09:23<LordAro>besides, a GS for just changing a few settings is massive overkill
09:24<_dp_>prety sure I seen some gs do that
09:25<_dp_>LordAro, not as massive as newgrf for changing settings :p
09:26<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc updated pull request #7744: Draft Feature: OpenGL video driver
09:26<+michi_cc>Pushed a few more potential OCD triggers :)
09:27<LordAro>_dp_: potentially
09:27<LordAro>basically, i want an overhaul of the "new game" environment
09:29<TrueBrain>michi_cc: but but .. THE CONFLICTS! :D (I am kidding, it is fine :D)
09:29<TrueBrain>michi_cc: <- I am taking the slow path, making SDL2 a lot more like Win32, a few lines of code at the time
09:29<TrueBrain>while at it, I find Win32 that I think improves the code
09:29<TrueBrain>this will take a few days to get done :)
09:30<andythenorth>I am considering Free Horse
09:30<andythenorth>for sandbox mode
09:30<andythenorth>bored of players asking for 'cheaper'
09:30<andythenorth>I have made Horse cheaper twice
09:30<andythenorth>with daylength, inflation on, realistic timetables, and trains that only run like once a year
09:30<andythenorth>they need 'free'
09:31<andythenorth>sandbox mode wishlist needed
09:31<_dp_>imo basecosts should just be a setting
09:31<frosch123>i thought the basecost grf was a solved thing
09:31<_dp_>with ability to adjust vehicle prices, cargo incomes, etc
09:32<TrueBrain>michi_cc: in VideoDriver_Win32OpenGL::Paint, you do GetUpdateRect and ValidateRect .. what does this do? Is this Windows way of not redrawing everything?
09:32<TrueBrain>oeh, and this URL is better to see my work:
09:32<_dp_>frosch123, pretty sure basecosts can't into vehicle prices
09:33<andythenorth>afaik basecost can't set running cost to 0
09:33<andythenorth>only tiny tiny tiny fractional multiplier
09:33<andythenorth>0 is demanded imho
09:33<andythenorth>it's a one line change in Horse though
09:33<andythenorth>basically full trainset mode
09:33<andythenorth>place houses, no town limits, vehicles cost 0
09:34<+michi_cc>TrueBrain: The GDI comment is better: /* Mark the window as updated, otherwise Windows would send more WM_PAINT messages. */
09:34<TrueBrain>ah! k :)
09:35<frosch123>_dp_: not individual vehicles, but per vehicle type
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09:35<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Milek7 commented on pull request #7744: Draft Feature: OpenGL video driver
09:36<andythenorth>GS can't credit you in real-time for cost of vehicles you buy, right? GS has no callbacks....
09:37<_dp_>frosch123, running costs, not purchase costs
09:37<frosch123>_dp_: base costs 15 to 19
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09:45<_dp_>hm... I do remember I couldn't adjust them for some reason...
09:45<_dp_>mb because they were in callbacks or smth
09:46<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler commented on pull request #8574: Feature: Ships yield when passing through one another
09:50<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/team] fnutt opened issue #125: [nb_NO] Translator access request
09:51<andythenorth>people use bouys for ships :O
09:52<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/team] fnutt commented on issue #125: [nb_NO] Translator access request
09:54<LordAro>andythenorth: how very 2013
09:54<LordAro>it always concerns me when people try to self-approve
09:54<LordAro>like... are you actually going to be good at translating if you can't understand the dorpsgek message?
09:56<fnutt>I can see what you are saying yes. Hehe. Sorry. I was looking at past issues with translator requests and saw /approve was written.
09:56<fnutt>I will in the future read it more carefully.
09:57<Eddi|zuHause><frosch123> i thought the basecost grf was a solved thing <-- no, basecost grf has an incredibly clunky UI with no explanation what anything means
09:57<frosch123>which of the 10?
09:57<Eddi|zuHause>all of them
09:58<LordAro>fnutt: do you feel the message could be improved at all to make it clearer?
09:59<fnutt>To be honest, the message was very clear and easy to understand. No reasons to change it.
10:00<fnutt>I just wanted to be “quick” and skipped reading the message throughout.
10:00<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/team] LordAro commented on issue #125: [nb_NO] Translator access request
10:00<LordAro>fnutt: hehe, fair enough
10:01<LordAro>well the conversation here has satisfied me enough anyway :)
10:02<fnutt>Thank you.
10:04<LordAro>go fix those 61 strings :)
10:05<frosch123>oi, nml has no PR template... now i have to figure out myself what to write
10:06<LordAro>typey typey words
10:06<fnutt>It does scares me a tiny bit to see there's just one other no_NB translator for OpenTTD.
10:06<fnutt>I will do my best. Have to look at what has been translated before to be sure to have some sort of consistency.
10:06<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/nml] frosch123 opened pull request #183: Add support for recent NewGRF additions
10:07<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/nml] frosch123 commented on pull request #183: Add support for recent NewGRF additions
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10:08<frosch123>fnutt: all translators were reset 6 months ago
10:08<frosch123>there are plenty of languages who have no translator currently
10:09<LordAro>fnutt: well, the other translator only joined in November, and they've not done a *huge* amount since
10:09<LordAro>prior to that was June 2019
10:09<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] grossws updated pull request #7851: Change: add support for next/previous railtype global hotkeys
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10:10<fnutt>Alright :)
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10:10<fnutt>Is there some sort of notification system as to when more strings are in need of translation?
10:11<fnutt>(assuming I translate the 59 strings)
10:11<LordAro>29 languages (of 63) without translators right now
10:11<LordAro>including en_US
10:11<LordAro>supermop_Home_: you wanna get in on that? ;)
10:12<supermop_Home_>ha what does en_us need?
10:12<frosch123>fnutt: no, all notificatons are way more general. better to set a quarterly reminder to check :)
10:13<fnutt>Here's a dumb question - why at all have en_US and en_GB? The difference is so small.
10:13*fnutt finds a corner to hide ;)
10:13<frosch123>supermop_Home_: <- validation, whether to drop some u, or replace some s with z
10:13<supermop_Home_>andy willfully sneaking in weird British vernacular?
10:13<Eddi|zuHause>fnutt: to shut up all the nitpicks about whether to use GB or US spelling
10:13<frosch123>fnutt: is having en_AU reason enough? :p
10:13<LordAro>fnutt: the differences between en_GB & en_AU are even smaller :p
10:13<supermop_Home_>is there en_NZ?
10:13<fnutt>Fair enough
10:14<supermop_Home_>AU has a few weird bits
10:14<Eddi|zuHause>do we have de_AT yet?
10:14<supermop_Home_>but i don't think they'd show up in the game
10:14<frosch123>austrians can't read
10:14<supermop_Home_>en_IN seems like it would be the most needed
10:14<frosch123>but i like how you follow up en_AU with de_AT :)
10:15<supermop_Home_>as some terminology is very different
10:15<fnutt>If I was better in nn_NO, I could have done that one. :p But I think it's better to not start on it. Sort of the same as en_GB and en_US - very similar, but still different.
10:16<frosch123>supermop_Home_: en_AU has "lollies" instead of "sweets" :)
10:16<frosch123>and fairy floss
10:17<supermop_Home_>i wonder what the AU 'tradie' -ie term for chief executive is
10:18<fnutt>What is the context of this one? Not entirely sure what units should be translated to.
10:18<fnutt>tiles per day? huh?
10:18<supermop_Home_>frosch123 they seem to use truck more than brits do
10:18<LordAro> quite a lot of possible variants
10:18<frosch123>fnutt: vehicle speed, km/h, mph, tiles/day
10:18<supermop_Home_>its not all lorry down there
10:18<fnutt>Okey, thanks.
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10:20<supermop_Home_>i am sure these dozens of Caribbean en_ variants are pretty similar
10:21<fnutt>Assuming the other people has translated correctly, I'm basing my translations on
10:21<supermop_Home_>do we have en_CA?
10:22<supermop_Home_>also i wonder what the difference between haw and haw_US is
10:23<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/nml] frosch123 updated pull request #183: Add support for recent NewGRF additions
10:23<Samu>I had an idea
10:23<Samu>more height tables!
10:24<supermop_Home_>LordAro if you want me to take a look at US i can
10:24<Samu>then it just needs adjusting the heights for arctic / desert to make tgp create decent maps
10:25<supermop_Home_>frosch123 you can't use "economic inflation"?
10:26<frosch123> <- similar variables are named like that
10:27<LordAro>supermop_Home_: would be nice to have *someone* doing it
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10:38<fnutt>Meh... I disagree with some of the earlier translations. :/ "Last year" has been translated to "i fjor", but in reality it should have been "forrige år" if we are to translate it directly (without too much interpretation).
10:38<fnutt>last=forrige, year=år.
10:39<TrueBrain>if you like, and want to pick the brain of the other translator, you can always open a Discussion inside your language team on GitHub
10:40<Samu>nobody likes my idea?
10:42<fnutt>Or I can "just" fix it myself?
10:42<TrueBrain>sure you can!
10:42<TrueBrain>just be careful it doesn't become a: I want it A, I want it B, between 2 people :D
10:43<fnutt>buzzCraft, are you here with another nick? or someone else speaking norwegian?
10:48<fnutt>I clearly see {STRING2}, not {STRING}. :/
10:49<fnutt>Is this a bug?
10:50<fnutt>Saving it as {STRING}, but the base lang string clearly says {STRING2}.
10:50<Eddi|zuHause>it's more of a misinformation. when the base uses {STRINGn} the translation must use {STRING} instead
10:53<+michi_cc>TrueBrain: I've picked you Win32 cleanups and added another one. I mean, do we really need a Windows 95 specific work-around anymore?
10:53<TrueBrain>it is why I started to remove those comments :)
10:53<Samu>lol, a 64x map using very flat on arctic gets a higher height than the same map on flat
10:53<Samu>you really didn't test this much, did u?
10:55<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc updated pull request #7744: Draft Feature: OpenGL video driver
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10:57<TrueBrain>slowly pulling this puzzle apart that we call SDL2 :) It is getting close to what Win32 does :D The main difference so far is that on Win32 you can make a DIB before you have a Window .. on SDL this is the other way around :)
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11:03<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc updated pull request #7744: Draft Feature: OpenGL video driver
11:03<+michi_cc>Missed a tiny, tiny speck :)
11:07<TrueBrain>I failed to spell usererror correctly 3 times in a row .. that is impressive
11:11<TrueBrain>michi_cc: pushed more Win32 changes you might want to cherry-pick :P It is slowing down ;)
11:11<TrueBrain>just some weird comments, and simplified GetScreenDepth :)
11:13<+michi_cc>TrueBrain: Did you see the comment by Milek7 on the PR regarding SDL_GL_GetProcAddress? Not sure what the proper way there is.
11:13<TrueBrain>haven't looked into that yet, at all. Still working towards re-adding OpenGL to SDL :)
11:13<fnutt>Is this something that groves, or may it grov?
11:15<fnutt>Never mind it.
11:18<TrueBrain>michi_cc: VideoDriver_Win32GDI::AllocateBackingStore, the "return false" on no change looks a bit odd. Shouldn't that be "return true"?
11:21<TrueBrain>and possibly that usererror should be a return false, to give things a chance to recover?
11:21<+michi_cc>True for AllocateBackingStore means "we did something", and it is basically only used in VideoDriver_Win32Base::ClientSizeChanged, because AfterBlitterChange is using the force param.
11:21<TrueBrain>AfterBlitterChange also uses it
11:22<TrueBrain>which, if returned false, reverts
11:22<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/team] CodCannon opened issue #126: [pt_PT] Translator access request
11:22<TrueBrain>so it also seems to indicate "something failed"?
11:22<TrueBrain>owh, force=true
11:22<TrueBrain>so why is it in the "return" value there :D
11:22<+michi_cc>There's nothing to recover from, it means the user has somehow managed to start the win32 video driver together with the null blitter.
11:23<TrueBrain>another path is via ChangeResolution, where a "return false" of AllocateBackingStore indicates there was a failure
11:23<+michi_cc>No idea, it is all old code.
11:23<TrueBrain>(via MakeWindow)
11:23<TrueBrain>haha :D
11:24<TrueBrain>SDL2 is newer, but has similar weird "double meaning" results :P
11:24<+michi_cc>Maybe there used to be a second failure mode in AllocateBackingStore way back.
11:25<TrueBrain>I was mostly wondering if "return false" would be fine for failures, as that function can also do a usererror
11:26<TrueBrain>fuck it, I am going for the usererror
11:26<TrueBrain>if these functions fail, something is really wrong
11:27<TrueBrain>similar with "VideoDriver_Win32OpenGL::AllocateBackingStore" I guess, if gl_rc is not set .. that should never happen, should it?
11:27<TrueBrain>(sorry for all these questions .. it is just easier to talk about them, then to look at it for hours and still failing to understand them :D
11:33<+michi_cc>Some of that code was probably really written with old, old systems in mind where e.g. higher resolutions might not be available in 32bpp and so on. Or assuming like 4MB RAM or so.
11:35<+michi_cc>TrueBrain: The very first call to VideoDriver_Win32OpenGL::AllocateBackingStore has gl_rc == nullptr :P We can't create the context without a window, and window creation sends a resize message.
11:35<TrueBrain>so you have the same issue as I have with SDL .. I have to change the order of these statements :)
11:35<TrueBrain>Create Window first, AllocateBackingStore after :)
11:37<TrueBrain>but Windows makes it harder on you because of the event
11:37<TrueBrain>yeah, makes sense
11:37<TrueBrain>Video-driver code is most often just one huge mindfuck someone went through once :)
11:37<+michi_cc>That's at least how it works on Windows. And as messages flow though Base, adding the check in VideoDriver_Win32OpenGL::AllocateBackingStor was the easiest.
11:40<fnutt> is now complete. :)
11:41<TrueBrain>gratz! And tnx :)
11:49<fnutt>53 PR's on github. uhm.... I see there's some dating back to march 2019. May I ask why they are still hanging around?
11:51<Eddi|zuHause>each one for different reasons
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11:54<andythenorth>because people get sad if I just close them?
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11:55<andythenorth>Samu what height level for the 64x test?
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11:56<andythenorth>"you really didn't test this much, did u?" no :)
11:58<Samu>i'm filling the tables using default values
11:58<andythenorth>how's your combinatorial maths samu?
11:58<Samu>there's some weird results
11:58<andythenorth>mine is not good, I can never remember when to use factorial, npr or ncr
11:59<Samu>{ 13, 12, 12, 16, 19, 28, 40 }, ///< Hilly, sub-arctic
11:59<Samu>height for 64 is higher than 128 and 256
11:59<andythenorth>for the same random seed?
12:00<Samu>no, this is the max_height from table, after TrueBrain changes, using default snow height and default max height
12:00<andythenorth>if you want anything other than anecdotal results, you need a script
12:00<andythenorth>do you have a script?
12:00<andythenorth>you could probably patch the game to log, and feed it all the possible combinations of map
12:01<andythenorth>using a stable set of random seeds
12:01<andythenorth>otherwise it's just guessing
12:03<Samu>still need to fill the data for mountainous and alpinist
12:03<Samu>then i'll post the end result
12:04<andythenorth>are you testing with 0% water?
12:06<Samu>im not testing water, i'm currently not looking at the end result
12:07<andythenorth>if you don't have a stable seed, and you don't prevent water
12:07<andythenorth>then the results are junk
12:07<andythenorth>presence of water can limit possible height level
12:07<andythenorth>how many samples are you doing per combination of settings?
12:09<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] fnutt opened issue #8580: Norwegian bokmål and nynorsk
12:13<Samu>1, since I'm only looking at max_height_from_table
12:14<andythenorth>and generating one map only?
12:14<andythenorth>but always from same seed?
12:15<Samu>i think i didn't explain my self too well
12:15<andythenorth>you're logging some output from the TGP function?
12:15*andythenorth makes wild guesses :|
12:17<andythenorth>or we're just reading TGPGetMaxHeight?
12:18<Samu>I am logging the results of max_height_from_table at the last line,
12:19<Samu>and i'm testing with default snow line height, 10, and default maxheightlevel 30
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12:19<Samu>and doing it for all combinations possible, mapsize, terraintype
12:19<Samu>i'm filling a table with the results for arctic and tropical
12:24<FLHerne>fnutt: " if we are to translate it directly (without too much interpretation)" <-- that's not inherently a concern, you should use your language's normal idiom for the in-game meaning
12:27<FLHerne>Literally translating what the English text says can go wrong
12:27<FLHerne>Particularly because some of the English texts are badly-worded or misleading
12:28<fnutt>Absolutely. Sentence structure in english and norwegian isn't 100 % the same.
12:37<Samu>well, mountainous large maps lost a lot of height
12:42<Samu>well, it would still be capped at 30, but some values i'm getting are in the 20's for alpinist on a 2048x sized map
12:42<Samu>wondering if I should test desert with 255 maxheightlevel
12:43<+glx>fnutt: both nynorks and bokmal do exist for openttd
12:44<Samu>only one value remains... alpinist tropical 4096x
12:47<fnutt>Uhm.. you are right.... but... it is not listed in ?
12:48<fnutt>Sure sure, but... something ain't right here since there are no language string for it?
12:49<+glx>STR_NETWORK_LANG_NORWEGIAN is just for network games IIRC, it's to indicate the spoken language on the server
12:49<fnutt>glx: Is your username on github glx22?
12:49<+glx>it is
12:50<fnutt>Alright. That makes sense.
12:50<+glx>and yes translating without the context is not easy :)
12:50<fnutt>Based on this I guess I can close the issue. Thanks for the help.
12:52<+glx>at least we try to use descriptive string IDs, but it's not always enough
12:53<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] fnutt closed issue #8580: Norwegian bokmål and nynorsk
12:54<+glx>oh you could have left the original message I think
12:54<fnutt>I could, but it was just stupidity by me. Wanted to remove it.
12:55<+glx>it was a good question, not knowing where the string was used
12:59<fnutt>Zero translators for nn_NO. *sight*. I'm not qualified to do the translations correctly. 355 strings in need of translation. :/
13:00<+glx>yeah, some languages don't have translators
13:02<Samu>considering max_heightlevel, any value above 30 is capped to 30
13:06<LordAro>fnutt: please don't blank issue text, the history is useful
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13:06<LordAro>and it's in the history anyway
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13:06<LordAro>just a comment explaining why it's invalid would do fine
13:07<Samu>i think i need to test extreme values, like a retarded snow line height of 253, max height level of 255
13:08<Samu>need to get a bigger picture of the issue
13:15<Samu>wow, this looks broken
13:16<Samu>set a snow height of 253 and a max height of 255
13:16<Samu>now generate a 4096x4096 sub-arctic very flat
13:17<Samu>it looks.... worse than alpinist
13:18<andythenorth>lol tree generation time on 4096x4096
13:18<andythenorth>trees are so stupid, they should just be procedural :)
13:18*andythenorth 1 min later, map gen finishes
13:18<andythenorth>nope, still going
13:18<andythenorth>128000000 individual trees to place
13:19<andythenorth>instead of 256 pre-computed variants
13:19<Samu>there were no suitable bla bla for forests :p
13:20<andythenorth>same you make a very good case here for the removal of More Height Levels
13:20<Samu>hide the trees
13:20<Samu>it's not "very flat" at all
13:20<Samu>it's "to the moon" height
13:21<andythenorth>ok seems to me 253 snowline and 255 max height is working correctly
13:21<andythenorth>the map is ugly AF and I wouldn't want to play it
13:21<andythenorth>but it's correct
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13:21<TrueBrain>did you just really say: I entered some insane values and am disappointed in how it looks? :D
13:21<andythenorth>it's working correctly
13:22<TrueBrain>guess a nice example of why adding settings for everything is silly :P
13:22<andythenorth>this is a matter of how people's brains are ordered
13:22<andythenorth>if player sets max height 255, surely they want 255 no?
13:22<Samu>map generated no snow
13:22<andythenorth>but now these reports are that map should be both 255 high, AND very flat
13:23<andythenorth>wait you might be right
13:23<andythenorth>4096x4096 is really so slow
13:23<andythenorth>but demand is for 16kx16k
13:24<Samu>honestly, it should try to at least make it look "very flat"
13:25<andythenorth>what, a 255 high plateau?
13:25<TrueBrain>andythenorth: but their machine can handle it !!!!!11111oneone
13:25<andythenorth>TrueBrain it's very well tested
13:25<Samu>it makes no difference which terraintype is set
13:25<andythenorth>Samu confirmed no snow
13:25<andythenorth>ok revert PR pls
13:26<andythenorth>this really is cool AF, TGP has made incredibly ugly very high arctic maps
13:26<andythenorth>with ugly ugly slopes
13:27<Samu>it only made it that high because of the snow line height being set that high, it praticall ignored the "very flat" preset
13:27<Samu>feels wrong
13:27<andythenorth>you can argue order of operations forever
13:27<andythenorth>255 height > snowline > map flatness
13:27<andythenorth>is what's happening
13:27<andythenorth>lol 100 tile long slopes
13:28<TrueBrain>its amazing, you can step out of this channel for hours, and come back to the exact same discussion, not an inch further :)
13:29<andythenorth>mac FFWD on 4096x4096 map, 1x :P
13:29<+glx>anyway using "incompatible" settings you can't expect "working" map ;)
13:29<TrueBrain>if you shoot yourself in the foot .... boy it hurts :)
13:29<andythenorth>TrueBrain can I combine 'rm -r' and '*' ?
13:30<andythenorth>shall I try?
13:30<Samu>but, other than this specific issue, look at the results using default values
13:30<+glx>you can andythenorth, but be carefull where :)
13:30<TrueBrain>don't forget the f andythenorth ! :D
13:31<Samu>you can see for instance, that 512x size hilly generates higher levels than 512x size mountainous
13:31<andythenorth>glx I was thinking of "cd /"
13:32<andythenorth>does that work?
13:32<+glx>hmm probably will require "sudo" too ;)
13:32<andythenorth>I run as root all the time
13:32<andythenorth>be fine right?
13:32<andythenorth>for the record, I don't :P
13:32<Samu>or that a 2048x sized mountainous has higher height than a 4096x sized mountainous
13:33<andythenorth>glx shall we talk about livery spec? :P
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13:36<Samu>I was going to propose a revert on that PR, and use 3 more tables for heights, manually inserting the heights on the table ourselves as we see fit
13:37<Samu>1 height table for each landscape
13:38<Samu>i also believe very flat shouldn't be too flat for arctic/desert, but when working with extreme values, it outputs very bad maps
13:40<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master
13:40<@DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
13:41<Samu>as for desert vs rainforest in sub-tropical, I have another proposal
13:43<Samu>btw, lowering snow_line_height from 15 to 10 is the best thing out of that PR
13:51<Samu>Must think
13:51<Samu>i think I'll go with the desert/rainforest proposal first
13:52<Samu>will make a PR soon
13:52*andythenorth considers if industries can use liveries
13:52<TrueBrain>wait, does that mean you closed other PRs?! :o
14:04<andythenorth>I could do it?
14:04<andythenorth>if that helps?
14:13<andythenorth>silent agreement? o_O
14:25<TrueBrain>pretty sure he is silent for other reasons ;)
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14:58<Eddi|zuHause>wait... so if "livery" means "some user-defined visual choice"... why would industries have those, when there is not even a dialog window to choose an industry layout?
15:04<andythenorth>because we haven't made it yet!
15:14<andythenorth>can you tell these 2 ships apart visually?
15:14<andythenorth>or do they look the same?
15:14<TrueBrain>one is clearly bigger than the other
15:15<TrueBrain>one has yellow things in the front, white thing around the middle thing, stairs on the right ..
15:15<andythenorth>not just further away?
15:15<TrueBrain>this is a silly game "find the differences", it is pretty obvious
15:15<andythenorth>I have learnt to check
15:15<andythenorth>some people would see those as identical
15:15<TrueBrain>I know nothing about gfx, don't put any value to what I say about it :P
15:15<TrueBrain>it has red, yellow and white
15:15<TrueBrain>yes, the same
15:15<TrueBrain>confirmed :)
15:16<andythenorth>thought so
15:16<andythenorth>2 holds, one chimney
15:16<andythenorth>they both look like boats!
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16:04<andythenorth>lol mac performance
16:04<andythenorth>CPU 1 of 8 cores is busy
16:04<andythenorth>discrete GPU is 50% workload
16:05<andythenorth>World of Tanks Blitz (3D game using Metal API) is supposed to run at 60fps
16:05<andythenorth>it runs at 30fps with all settings on 'low' or 'ultra low'
16:06<andythenorth>GPU is 4GB Radeon pro 5500M
16:06<+glx>so mobile version
16:07<andythenorth>iPad runs the same game at 60fps with most effects on 'high'
16:07<TrueBrain>michi_cc: it is funny I run in the exact same issues as Win32 .. in this case: AllocateBackingStore is called before the context exists :D It aligns pretty nicely :)
16:07<andythenorth>ipad screen is half the pixels at best
16:07<+michi_cc>Well, SDL on Windows at least has to do exactly the same stuff :)
16:09<TrueBrain>hihi, my screen flickers black sometimes .. pretty sure there is an issue with the palette :D
16:11*andythenorth considers writing Apple a stern note
16:11<TrueBrain>owh, not even the palette ... just not drawing to the screen, lol
16:12<TrueBrain>ah, calling SDL_UpdateWindowSurface is a bad idea :D
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16:13<TrueBrain>8bpp-optimized is a lot quicker than 40bpp-anim .. was that expected, I forgot .. me checks PR
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16:14<TrueBrain>ah, no, nevermind
16:14<TrueBrain>depends on what is on screen
16:15<+glx>8bpp being faster seems correct to me
16:15<TrueBrain>performance of both is within the noise :P
16:16<+glx>and I guess palette animation with opengl can use GPU, while other drivers are all cpu
16:20<TrueBrain>michi_cc: found a bug .. if you change resolution with win32-opengl, it crashes :D (not dragging your Window, selecting another resolution!)
16:21<TrueBrain>I noticed, as it crashes SDL too :P
16:21<+michi_cc>Hmm, will test :)
16:21<+glx>ah not manual resize, but changing in option window ?
16:21<TrueBrain>seems to be called in a weird moment :)
16:23<+michi_cc>Not crashing for me :(
16:23<TrueBrain>ah, AllocateBackingStore does a ReleaseVideoPointer but not a GetVideoPointer if it was released
16:23<TrueBrain>michi_cc: with 40bpp-anim btw
16:23<TrueBrain>it crashes because anim_buffer is NULL, sort-of
16:25<+michi_cc>Ahh, I see the problem. OpenGLBackend::Resize is not mapping the anim buffer if persistent mapping is not used.
16:25<+michi_cc>Fix incoming shortly.
16:27<TrueBrain>right, figured out what functions should be class-based .. now I only have to clean up the palette functions for the non-opengl part ..
16:27<TrueBrain>palette is a bit of a mess in SDL :)
16:29<TrueBrain>on 2k resolution, video output goes from ~1.4ms to 0.14ms (SDL vs SDL-OpenGL)
16:29<TrueBrain>(in 32bpp mode)
16:29<+glx>nice improvment
16:30<TrueBrain>in 8bpp it is even worse: from 3ms (SDL) to 0.03ms (SDL-OpenGL)
16:31<milek7_>that's not counting gpu time, though
16:31<+glx>but that means cpu has more free time to do game state stuff
16:33<TrueBrain>let me put it in stats that give less weird responses: my ff FPS goes from ~150 fps to ~1500 fps with 8bpp; same map, same everything
16:34<TrueBrain>and full animation on ofc, as fuck yeah
16:35<+glx>seems cpu uses the free time :)
16:35<TrueBrain>this makes fullscreen a lot more playable for me :D
16:35<TrueBrain>but okay, my machine is not really low-end or anything (whistles innocent) .. so we will have to see how it hold up on other hardware :D
16:36<TrueBrain>first, we need to finish it :)
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16:38<TrueBrain>there is a weird blob of code in the SDL driver that Win32 doesn't have .. hmmm
16:40<TrueBrain>ah, via Windows WM_PAINT trigger a paint
16:40<TrueBrain>SDL just does it .. often
16:42<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc updated pull request #7744: Draft Feature: OpenGL video driver
16:43<+michi_cc>Look at VideoDriver_Win32OpenGL::AllocateBackingStore again now.
16:44<TrueBrain>ha, I wrote a near identical fix there for SDL to try it out :D
16:44<TrueBrain>means I am starting to understand this stuff a tiny bit :P
16:45<+michi_cc>TrueBrain: I don't have the exact number offhand, but even with the Intel GPU on my laptop, I still have a very noticeable speedup (x3 or something like that I think).
16:45<TrueBrain>what amuses me, is that std::max(a, 1) throws an error with a being an uint .. like ... can't you figure this out compiler? Really?
16:46<TrueBrain>hmm, random crash
16:46<TrueBrain>nope, still crashing on me michi_cc :(
16:47<TrueBrain>in very weird places :P
16:47<+michi_cc>Then SDL seems to do something differently.
16:47<TrueBrain>no, with win32-opengl
16:48<TrueBrain>"openttd.exe -snull -mnull -ddriver=4 -r 1024x768 -vwin32-opengl -x -c test.cfg -b 40bpp-ani" <- where "test.cfg" does not exist
16:48<TrueBrain>then Game Options, screen resolution, 2560x1440
16:48<TrueBrain>lower resolutions do work!
16:48<+michi_cc>Persistent buffer mapping or not?
16:50<TrueBrain>does work on SDL :o
16:50<TrueBrain>(with your new AllocateBackingStore ofc)
16:50<+michi_cc>Works for me, with the exact args as you.
16:51<TrueBrain>btw, something completely different: is there a difference between "this->VideoDriver_Win32Base::Stop" and "VideoDriver_Win32Base::Stop" ?
16:51<+glx>none IIRC
16:52<TrueBrain>similar to how you can leave out "this->" in many places, I assumed?
16:54<+michi_cc>Yeah, our usage of this-> is completely superfluous, unless you really have a local variable shadowing a member variable.
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16:54<TrueBrain>persistent mapping or not, crashes on highest resolution
16:55<+glx>using this-> in most case is to know with call a member function and not a global scope one
16:55<TrueBrain>okay, going to full screen was a huge mistake
16:55<TrueBrain>crashes hard :P
16:57<TrueBrain>seems random memory corruption
16:57*glx is waiting for symbols, iptv tends to steal bandwidth
16:57<TrueBrain>starting with "-r 3000x3000" produces the same result
16:59<TrueBrain>SDL places the window in a funny place on that resolution :D
16:59<TrueBrain>a problem for another time .. pretty sure it is frosch123 's code doing that :D
17:00<TrueBrain>michi_cc: I have a hard time tracing this issue .. on slightly-lower-than 2560x1440 resolutions, it runs for a bit, but crashes shortly after
17:00<+michi_cc>Something is corrupting the heap at very high resolutions.
17:01<TrueBrain>seems so, yes
17:01<TrueBrain>I think it is not inside your opengl.cpp :)
17:05<TrueBrain>I am rebuilding everything just to be sure it is not some weird glitch in the way I do incremental builds :)
17:05<TrueBrain>(I am controlling MSVC via Git Bash ... it sometimes does weird shit)
17:06<milek7_>compile with addresssanitizer
17:06<TrueBrain>too bad, didn't fix anything :P
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17:07<+michi_cc>No, I can reproduce it, I just don't see any obivous cause.
17:09<TrueBrain>owh, pfew, that makes me feel less alone :D
17:09<TrueBrain>I couldn't spot one either tbh .. not many things are influences by resolution
17:09<frosch123>TrueBrain: i cannot start ottd with a bigger window than the screen
17:09<frosch123>sdl makes it smaller
17:10<frosch123>well, no idea whether sdl, or the window manager
17:10<TrueBrain>frosch123: lol .. it indeed finds the nearest "valid" resolution, which is over my max size :P
17:10<frosch123>oh, you mean fullscreen?
17:10<TrueBrain>no no
17:11<frosch123>sounds like i have to read 5 hours of backlog to understand the issue :p
17:11<TrueBrain>not really
17:11<TrueBrain>I just star tthe game with "-r 3000x3000"
17:11<TrueBrain>SDL makes that a bit smaller
17:11<TrueBrain>and puts the window offscreen :D
17:12<TrueBrain>dbg: [driver] SDL2: using mode 3000x1421
17:12<TrueBrain>but okay, I know where in the code it does this, so I can take a look and see if it is worth fixing, honestly :)
17:12<TrueBrain>it is a very weird thing to do :P
17:14<TrueBrain>dbg: [driver] 2147483428 / 1073741434 <- x/y position of the window :D
17:14<+glx>feels wrong
17:15<+michi_cc>TrueBrain: Cause found, fix is in thinking phase.
17:15<frosch123>ah, uint
17:15<TrueBrain>michi_cc: do tell? Or I will see the change, also fine :)
17:15<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LC-Zorg commented on pull request #8557: Change: darken the background of all graph to increase contrast
17:16<+michi_cc>TrueBrain: VideoDriver_Win32Base::ChangeResolution might not resize to w x h, but h - something. VideoDriver_Win32OpenGL::ChangeResolution calls AllocateBackingStore with the original w x h after it.
17:17<+michi_cc>I'm not really sure anymore why I have that AllocateBackingStore in there anyway. Either I have to fix the w and h params, or maybe it can go at all.
17:19<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 opened pull request #8581: Fix: Only center the window, when it is smaller than the screen.
17:19<TrueBrain>can't say I understand where it does "h - something", but SDL has this code where the height (as I just showed by accident) can be different from what you request, and because of that "w" and "h" are passed everywhere
17:19<frosch123>TrueBrain: does that help?
17:19<TrueBrain>really annoying, honestly :D
17:19<TrueBrain>let me check!
17:19<TrueBrain>bashing windows whenever you get the chance I see :P
17:20<frosch123>TrueBrain: i had 12 years without windows. now i notice windows bugs all days
17:20<TrueBrain>I thin you dont need to include algorithm btw
17:20<TrueBrain>I think LordAro did something magical there
17:20<+michi_cc>I think total window size is limit to screen size, but we assume w x h is _client_ size, not window size, i.e title bar.
17:20<frosch123>i don't know whether they also were there 12 years ago, or whether linux fixed them meanwhile
17:20<TrueBrain>yes, that fixes it frosch123 :)
17:21<TrueBrain>but leaving out that include also compiles fine
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17:21<TrueBrain>ah, included in stdafx.h
17:21<TrueBrain>that explains :D
17:22<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 updated pull request #8581: Fix: Only center the window, when it is smaller than the screen.
17:23<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #8581: Fix: Only center the window, when it is smaller than the screen.
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17:31<+glx>the difference between win32 and win32-opengl is impressive, fast forward in win32 is around 500fps at max, while it's near 1500fps in win32-opengl
17:32<TrueBrain>yeah, I am really happy with it :)
17:32<+glx>and that's using everything autoprobed
17:33<+glx>one was launched with -ddriver=2 the other with -ddriver=2 -vwin32
17:33<+glx>I think I even see a difference in reactivity during newgrf scan
17:34<+glx>I have too many newgrf :)
17:36<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8557: Change: darken the background of all graph to increase contrast
17:36<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 merged pull request #8581: Fix: Only center the window, when it is smaller than the screen.
17:36<+glx>(my config is amd fx-6100 + nvidia 450GTS)
17:37<TrueBrain>I might have been a bit passive aggressive in that comment :P
17:37<TrueBrain>reporting unrelated bugs in merged PRs .. what could possibly go wrong
17:39<TrueBrain>lets see if this more direct response to what he was trying to get done helps :)
17:41<+michi_cc>Okay, besides the crash itself, do we want to allow a total window size larger than the screen? OTTD resolution is used as client (inner) size, not total window size.
17:42<TrueBrain>owh, found out what SDL was doing, it was indeed clamping to my screen size
17:42<TrueBrain>I just have 2x 2560x1440
17:42<+glx>a window bigger than the screen is almost unusable
17:42<TrueBrain>so yeah .. 3000x1440 fits easily :P
17:42<TrueBrain>michi_cc: I suggest to do the same for Win32 indeed; clamp to max screen size sounds sane :)
17:42<_dp_>hm, somehow I thought that dark thing was rejected...
17:43<frosch123>michi_cc: dragging a window across two screen works fine in windowed mode
17:43<+michi_cc>TrueBrain: Well, that is clamping is exactly why it is crashing right now.
17:43<+michi_cc>frosch123: I don't have a second monitor here, but I am assuming the Windows clamping is actually to desktop size, not really monitor size.
17:44<TrueBrain>michi_cc: in SDL, it reads back the real size it got, and sets w/h based on that; something like that possible, to set the _window thingies to the right size?
17:45<+michi_cc>Win32 code does that all as well, there's just a second call to AllocateBackingStore that I think is completely useless. But apparently I must have though of something with it, even if I can't see it right now.
17:47<TrueBrain>michi_cc: yeah ... one thing I learnt today: there is always this one flow that makes a line of code that is already there have a reason :D
17:49<andythenorth>which FIRS author :P
17:49<TrueBrain>is there more than one? :P
17:50<+glx>there's more than one person who understands FIRS generator ?
17:50<frosch123>andythenorth: i dbout you can proof that you did not say something
17:50<andythenorth>well there are 8 forks
17:50<andythenorth>are they authors? :P
17:50<frosch123>does anyone of them fork the firs source? or do they all take the generated nml and go from there?
17:51<andythenorth>about half and half I think
17:51<andythenorth>it's definitely much easier to edit nml 80 times accurately
17:51<frosch123>impressive, i did not expect anyone to understand pynml :)
17:51<andythenorth>compared to editing a value in python
17:51<+michi_cc>glx: The limiting is all down internally to Windows. Apparently the default message handler for WM_GETMINMAXINFO does this. It is possible to handle the message yourself to override it, but we don't right now.
17:52<+glx>anyway I have only one monitor :)
17:53<+glx>and if I had a second one it would be a different resolution
17:54<+glx>so not very easy to expand a window on both
17:56<+glx> <-- oh not sure it would be fun to support that
18:00<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LC-Zorg commented on issue #8498: Add some way to find and recover crashed vehicles
18:00<+glx>but maybe we already do
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18:13<andythenorth>how about a notification centre instead of news? :P
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18:19<+michi_cc>TrueBrain: Okay, I think I have figured it out, including working switch to fullscreen. Now carefully putting each but into the proper commit.
18:20<TrueBrain>he said butt :)
18:20<+michi_cc>During this, I've unfortunately noticed that persistent buffer mapping somehow glitches in fullscreen mode. Seems I get synchronisation wrong somewhere.
18:21<+michi_cc>Going to push the fixes first though, so you can look at them.
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18:45<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc updated pull request #7744: Draft Feature: OpenGL video driver
18:45<+michi_cc>TrueBrain: I hope I haven't messed up something. I've shuffled things around, so look carefully.
18:48<TrueBrain>will do!
18:49<+michi_cc>Looking at the force-push diff, the part interesting to you is actually really small. I think you can ignore the OpengL stuff.
18:50<TrueBrain>I can, and indeed :)
18:52<TrueBrain>ah, this is why SDL didn't crash .. I already didn't implement ChangeResolution :P
18:52<TrueBrain>that was already taken care of in the Base class for SDL :D
18:53<+michi_cc>The important thing to note is that OpenGLBackend::Resize will not get you a video buffer pointer now.
18:54<TrueBrain>my OpenGL implementation is a near-identical copy of the Win32 :P So I could just copy/paste your changes :D
18:55<TrueBrain>going out of fullscreen doesn't restore last window size btw, for Win32
18:56<TrueBrain>otherwise, it works now :D :D
18:56<TrueBrain>wait, it does restore res
18:56<TrueBrain>not location
18:56<TrueBrain>that is the difference, sorry :D
18:56<TrueBrain>not sure that is relevant btw .. on SDL it restores to the last location too
18:56<TrueBrain>that is why I noticed :)
18:56<+michi_cc>Never watched for that, but I'm quite sure this is in master as well.
18:56<TrueBrain>most likely
18:58<TrueBrain>right, this all works fine now, sweet :)
18:58<TrueBrain>tomorrow I figure out what to do with palette for SDL .. bit messy, must be a clean way I am sure
18:58<TrueBrain>and make this work I have now in some better commits :D
18:58<TrueBrain>I btw put SDL-OpenGL in another file, that really helped
18:58<TrueBrain>might want to do the same for Win32
19:00<TrueBrain>owh, and CheckPaletteAnim() does different things on different drivers .. as in, the SDL variant does something completely different than the Win32 variant :) I am going to fix that :P
19:00<TrueBrain>(by renaming, ofc)
19:01<TrueBrain>owh, meaning to ask michi_cc , why the "buffer_locked"? What is the case it can do LockVideoBuffer twice?
19:02<TrueBrain>(I do not mind; was just curious why :D)
19:02<+michi_cc>Something about screenshots I dimly remember.
19:02<TrueBrain>I wouldn't be surprised :D
19:03<TrueBrain>aahh, yes
19:03<TrueBrain>it is also set from video_driver.hpp
19:03<TrueBrain>did not spot that yet
19:04<TrueBrain>well, SDL also almost done .. that leaves OSX ..
19:05<TrueBrain>with that nightmare, I am off to bed :D
19:05<TrueBrain>nice work today michi_cc , tnx for the quick fixes etc :)
19:05<+michi_cc>I've got a bunch of partly-done cleanup for OSX first.
19:05<milek7_>well.. what could happen when using SDL also on MacOS?
19:06<+michi_cc>I absolutely do not want the subdriver mess there and instead do proper video drivers.
19:06<+michi_cc>milek7_: Back in the day SDL was not very good on OSX. Might have become better with SDL2, but nobody tested that.
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19:40<LordAro>TrueBrain: the magic is otherwise known as "sticking #include <algorithm> in stdafx.h"
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23:56<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Matias-Barrios opened issue #8582: Content Downloading does not work
---Logclosed Sun Jan 17 00:00:58 2021