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#openttd IRC Logs for 2021-02-19

---Logopened Fri Feb 19 00:00:45 2021
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04:26<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8603: Feature: Object class selection string filtering
04:26<TrueBrain>not the first time he makes us read: yes, ok, sure, done, fixed, ... :P :D
04:26<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8603: Feature: Object class selection string filtering
04:27<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8616: Add: Currency: Indonesian Rupiah (IDR)
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04:31<TrueBrain>now, how the fuck do I merge those video drivers .. they are slightly different enough for that to be tricky :P
04:39<TrueBrain>LordAro: what would you prefer .. that I make a new PR out of merging the video drivers (given you already reviewed the 60fps PR), or that I attach it to that PR?
04:39<TrueBrain>I was thinking of doing that in the PR already, but it is far less trivial than I expected :P
04:40<TrueBrain>so just a sanity check :D
04:40<andythenorth>I wish zsh ran at 60fps for tab auto-complete :P
04:40<andythenorth>it's always just a bit behind, and slower than bash was
04:41<LordAro>TrueBrain: maybe another PR indeed
04:42<TrueBrain>the main issue is that we have 1 driver where the mainloop is unrolled ..
04:42<TrueBrain>you already disliked that when the PR was there
04:42<TrueBrain>and now I dislike it too :D
04:43<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8680: Feature: configurable refresh-rate and change default to 60fps
04:46<TrueBrain>let the issue rain in :P
04:47<andythenorth>nightly builds when? :P
04:47<TrueBrain>20:00 CE(S)T
04:47<TrueBrain>you do your local math
04:47<TrueBrain>in 9 hours, basically
04:49<_dp_>so they're eveningly builds then? :p
04:51<TrueBrain>I find all these small bugs
04:51<TrueBrain>when you press shift in debug builds to fastforward
04:51<TrueBrain>it always starts 1 tick after you pressed it
04:51<TrueBrain>because .. weird control logic
04:56<andythenorth>TB forum post maybe?
04:56<andythenorth>I mean I could
04:56<andythenorth>I am so winning at community relations currently
04:57*andythenorth coffee
04:57<TrueBrain>meh .. maybe after the nightly
04:57<TrueBrain>oh-oh .. it seems I introduced a build-error with allegro
04:57<TrueBrain>which is weird, as I am sure I fixed that one
04:58<TrueBrain>clearly, I did not
04:58<TrueBrain>oops .. seems I forgot to push :(
04:58<LordAro>oh no
04:58<TrueBrain>I will fix that in a sec :)
04:59<TrueBrain>our CI is not building allegro :P
04:59<TrueBrain>it is an easy fix
04:59<TrueBrain>so I might as well do that
05:04<TrueBrain>we add libsdl1.2 and libsdl2 as deps for the CI
05:04<TrueBrain>but CMake only always picks either one
05:05<TrueBrain>still no clue what to do with SDL1 honestly
05:06<andythenorth>I can't decide if LC is mad or not
05:06<andythenorth>yet another post of rambling bug reports mixed in with passive insults
05:07<andythenorth>I tried testing some of the reported bugs, but I can't repro
05:07<andythenorth>getting a bit old
05:07<andythenorth>"yes I know I could just ignore"
05:07<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #8694: Several fixes related to merging 60fps PR
05:07<andythenorth>but there is a high chance of TGP being oddly broken...because TGP, so I have to check
05:07<TrueBrain>I like that he couldn't win it on GitHub, so he went to the forums :)
05:08<andythenorth>I don't like that instead of bug reports we get dummy spits
05:08<andythenorth>but presented as bug reports
05:08*LordAro goes looking for the drama
05:08<Timberwolf>I think there is something in the "low snow levels / high maximum height" thing.
05:09<TrueBrain>I like how he says "default settings", while clearly those are not default settings :D
05:10<Timberwolf>It does appear to generater much flatter maps than temperate does for the same max height.
05:10<TrueBrain>its cute how I tell him nobody understands what max-height does, and he goes on to proof he doesn't understand it
05:10<andythenorth>I am generating maps comparing 1.10
05:10<TrueBrain>it is just a horrible setting to have in that window :)
05:10<_dp_>drama incoming...
05:10<andythenorth>but the problem is that TGP is fucking mysterious
05:10<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl requested changes for pull request #7851: Change: add support for next/previous railtype global hotkeys
05:10<andythenorth>so I don't know what settings to test
05:10<andythenorth>like...nothing works in any way I've ever understood
05:11<Timberwolf>There's also a case when you have really high industry density and snowline/max heights at something like 11 and 12 respectively, all the snowy peaks will be taken by other industries before forests can be placed.
05:11<TrueBrain>basically, in my opinion, max-height should be hidden in the settings as "expert"
05:11<TrueBrain>and we should default it to 200 or something
05:12<Timberwolf>But that's more of a, "well what did you expect?" situation.
05:12<TrueBrain>as really, it does nothing people think it does, it is just so incredibly dumb
05:12<LordAro>_dp_: ta :)
05:12<andythenorth>we've flat-topped the mountains for certain combinations, compared to 1.11
05:12<TrueBrain>max-height never INCREASES the amount of hills you get, but can only REDUCE the amount you get, basically .. I mean .. wuth? :P
05:12<TrueBrain>it so pisses me off :D
05:12<andythenorth>to be clear: I only what to know *which* eggs we've broken
05:13<andythenorth>TGP has been a minor tyre fire for years
05:13<TrueBrain>"Found Allegro: /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/ (found version "4.4.3") "
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05:26<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] orudge approved pull request #8694: Several fixes related to merging 60fps PR
05:28<andythenorth>shame we don't have a QA obsessive :)
05:29<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on pull request #7851: Change: add support for next/previous railtype global hotkeys
05:29<andythenorth>we could script the UI to generate terrains for wide combinations of settings, then save them as heighmap
05:29<andythenorth>then use standard visual diff tools to compare
05:29<andythenorth>then we'd be able to find significant 'regressions'
05:30<andythenorth>I use 'regression' in scare quotes, because it's not clear (1) what TGP is quite supposed to do or (2) if it has ever done it :D
05:34<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8694: Several fixes related to merging 60fps PR
05:46<TrueBrain>I wrote prozy
05:46<TrueBrain>now I am late :P
05:46<TrueBrain>I thought it would be good to remove a bit of the fake news going on in that thread :)
05:47<Eddi|zuHause>since when was fake news susceptible to good arguments? :p
05:51<TrueBrain>that is also why I am not trying to tell LC that it is fake news :)
05:52<TrueBrain>the goal should not always be to convince the person starting the fire, but instead convincing everyone around the fire they shouldn't be there :)
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05:56<LordAro>it's always fun looking at TB's forum posts from a (actual physical) distance
05:56<LordAro>the smileys just stand out :)
05:56<TrueBrain>I am rather known for that yes, and I refuse to change to become "normal" :P
05:56<TrueBrain>I am rereading LCs posts, and I cannot believe how much he is misrepresenting what is going on :)
05:56<LordAro>was not suggesting that there was anything wrong with it at all :p
05:57<Eddi|zuHause>LordAro: i think i see what you mean :)
05:58<TrueBrain>I also cannot believe how many people reply in that thread without starting the game and building conclusions on it :)
05:58<TrueBrain>"someone wrote this on the internet, IT MUST BE TRUE"
05:59<TrueBrain>but lets see if we can make the thread a bit more constructive
05:59<TrueBrain>who knows
05:59<andythenorth>I mean people used to literally die from this shit
05:59<Timberwolf>TrueBrain: "path-based signals are more computationally expensive"
05:59<andythenorth>so at least we've moved civilisation on...right?
05:59<TrueBrain>Timberwolf: que? And that sentence is silly ... "I am taller!"
06:00<TrueBrain>You are breathing more!
06:00*andythenorth tried playing an unwinnable Warcraft 1 map
06:00<andythenorth>no archers, and 3 enemy knights turn up before I can build a barracks
06:00<Timberwolf>TrueBrain: It's a Reddit/Discord thing, comes up a lot when people talk signalling.
06:00<TrueBrain>yeah ... the unfounded bullshit people write
06:00<TrueBrain>fake-news is not new
06:00<TrueBrain>it now just has a name
06:00<andythenorth>well it used to just be called propaganda
06:01<TrueBrain>right, I am off
06:01<andythenorth>don't go TrueBrain !
06:01<andythenorth>we will miss you!
06:02*andythenorth procrastinating drawing pixels
06:02<Eddi|zuHause>fake news is probably as old as civilization itself
06:03<Eddi|zuHause>it's probably how religions form
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06:10*andythenorth tests some more
06:10<andythenorth>the problem is there are too many settings that have influence
06:10<andythenorth>like...variety distribution will affect perceived flatness (or unflatness)
06:10<andythenorth>amount of sea affects max height of hills / mountains
06:12<_dp_>pbs are slow! I have a single pbs and it lags like crazy :P
06:12<andythenorth>_dp_ drawing newgrf trains is slow :P
06:12<andythenorth>andythenorth is slow!
06:12<_dp_>no newgrfs :P
06:12<andythenorth>no I mean, literally, drawing them, pixels :)
06:12*andythenorth is just being a twat
06:12<Timberwolf>I love the Dutch aphorisms, they're so often uncanny valley versions of the English ones.
06:13<Timberwolf>e.g. "storm in a glass of water" vs. "storm in a teacup"
06:13<andythenorth>we're practically Dutch
06:13<andythenorth>apart from the Viking and Celtic parts
06:13<andythenorth>more trade across the North Sea than within England, historically
06:13<andythenorth>or something
06:14*andythenorth says things on the internet that might not be true
06:16*andythenorth watching
06:16<_dp_>find the pbs xD
06:17<LordAro>oh my
06:17<LordAro>NE middle
06:19<andythenorth>_dp_ you are madder than me even
06:19<andythenorth>what a world
06:20<_dp_>it's kinda fun to watch xD
06:20<andythenorth>it's like primitive life!
06:20<andythenorth>you should YouTube that
06:21<Xaroth>Something something 2k x 2k map with this
06:22<andythenorth>teach a GS to build them
06:22<andythenorth>or an AI
06:22<Xaroth>or... use a copy/paste patch :P
06:23<_dp_>Xaroth, and how do you think I ended up building that?
06:23<_dp_>I was testing copy-paste patch :p
06:23<Xaroth>go big or go home then :D
06:24<_dp_>buying all the vehicles was a pita though
06:24<_dp_>also untill I think of a way to make them chose more interesting paths going bigger is kinda pointless
06:27<andythenorth>custom orders patch
06:27<andythenorth>give each train preferences
06:28<andythenorth>'try to turn left' etc
06:28<andythenorth>generative art in OpenTTD
06:28<andythenorth>then we can do an art show!
06:28<Xaroth>Ideally you'd want to place down a few dozen stations spaced apart, then have each train different orders
06:29<andythenorth>generative patterns, Iron Horse Train Whack trading cards
06:29<Xaroth>(i.e. different order of stations)
06:29<andythenorth>and 3D printed vehicles
06:29<andythenorth>we can get a gallery show
06:37<_dp_>pathfinder totally freaks out on such map
06:41<_dp_>first train reserved THAT but then decided fuck it and went to kill itself xD
06:42<Eddi|zuHause>trains can't kill themselves. need a minimum of 2 trains
06:45<_dp_>well, it found some lost soul to crash into :p
06:47<_dp_>the fact that it actually went off the reserved path is the most curious
06:48<Xaroth>Maybe he got scared from all the crossings and decided to seek shelter with his buddy train?
06:49<Eddi|zuHause>somethingsomething stalereservation something notreversing something
07:05<andythenorth>drawing certain train liveries is is soooo boring :)
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07:14<andythenorth>did someone want a livery feature?
07:14<andythenorth>could we...not?
07:17<Eddi|zuHause>we already have multiple livery features
07:17<Eddi|zuHause>you asked for at least 3 more :p
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07:31<andythenorth>I think ctrl-click remains my favourite
07:31<andythenorth>we should make it increment a byte
07:31<andythenorth>designing GUIs is hard :P
07:31<andythenorth>ctrl-click is easy
07:32<Eddi|zuHause>you know this is a case of
07:33<Eddi|zuHause>(aside from all the other reasons why ctrl+click is a bad idea)
07:34<andythenorth>I suspect you're correct
07:34<andythenorth>but sometimes being wrong offers more learning potential
07:35<andythenorth>I would patch ctrl-click myself, but I give a low chance that I can correctly migrate the existing bool in savegames
07:35<andythenorth>there's probably some elegant bit maths way to do that, which I would never think of
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07:52<NGC3982>im pretty sure the last episode of the tv show 'the young doctos notebook' uses a train whistle sample that is - if not the same - extremely similar to the new-train-started sample in openttd
07:52<NGC3982>it's uncanny
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08:12<andythenorth>might be from
08:12<andythenorth>we all used that in the 90s / early 2000s
08:13<andythenorth>I used it for Flash games a lot, but it shows up in other games and I think it's in KLF songs as well
08:14<andythenorth>no steam train though
08:15<andythenorth>there were a few other effects CD compilations :)
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09:14*andythenorth diligently painting pixels
09:17<Samu>you no longer seem to care about coding style?
09:21<Timberwolf>One of the YouTube series my OH watches keeps using the same sound sample as Total Annihilation did for "unit under attack".
09:22<Timberwolf>I'm not sure I like spending my day with the mild underlying tension that somewhere a single AI kbot is boldy attacking a metal extractor I built an hour ago and forgot about.
09:25<Samu>static bool NameSorter(const ObjectClass *const& a, const ObjectClass *const& b)
09:25<Samu>isn't this style wrong?
09:25<LordAro>technically yes
09:25<LordAro>but it's 4 misplaced spaces
09:25<LordAro>it's not the worst thing in the world
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09:28<+glx>finally trying to add msys2/mingw to CI
09:28<Samu>static bool NameSorter(const ObjectClass * const &a, const ObjectClass * const &b)
09:28<+glx>will be a long trial and error
09:33<andythenorth>time for Horse release?
09:38<Samu>what's the correct style for this? typedef GUIList<const ObjectClass *, StringFilter &> GUIObjectClassList;
09:38<Samu>or typedef GUIList<const ObjectClass*, StringFilter&> GUIObjectClassList;
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09:47<Xaroth>Timberwolf: I have the same with all kinds of sound samples.. like slack/discord notifications
09:47<Xaroth>and don't get me started on the EVE hull alarm.. that still freaks me out
09:52<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #8693: Feature: allow changing the game-speed other than 1x and warp-speed
10:07<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened pull request #8695: Codechange: Apply coding style
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10:12<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 opened issue #8696: Add: Allow stepping the game forward by a tick at a time
10:18<andythenorth>^ interesting idea
10:20<nielsm>yeah I tried hacking that in once but gave up
10:20<nielsm>but it'll be useful for debugging newgrfs and stuff
10:25<_dp_>oh, I have that in cmclient :p
10:27<_dp_>quite a hacky implementation though
10:29<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on issue #8696: Add: Allow stepping the game forward by a tick at a time
10:32<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on issue #8696: Add: Allow stepping the game forward by a tick at a time
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11:13<Wuzzy>Can someone please review this OpenSFX PR?:
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11:33<supermop_Home>awaiting hotel sprite pitchforks
11:36<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison opened issue #8697: GRF scanner progress updating no longer works due to _realtime_tick changes
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12:36<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #8697: GRF scanner progress updating no longer works due to _realtime_tick changes
12:37<+glx>wow mouse is fast in debug build now
12:42<+glx>and it seems openttd fails to build for 32bit mingw
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12:59<LordAro>glx: those are some weird error messages
12:59<+glx>yeah, I need to try locally
12:59<+glx>but at least I now why it fails only for 32 bit
13:00<+glx>it's in #if defined(__MINGW32__) && !defined(__MINGW64__)
13:00<LordAro>ah, lol
13:00<+glx>need to search why we did that though
13:00<+glx>maybe it was a missing define at some point
13:00<+glx>in old mingw
13:08<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 opened pull request #8698: Add: [Actions] msys2/MinGW CI
13:09<+glx>anyway these checks won't be required to merge
13:10<+glx>like VS2017, it will be a safety run and tell we broke something before someone notice it by "accident"
13:22<TrueBrain>booooo, I checked map generation modal window, assuming it would also fix grf scanner ...
13:22<TrueBrain>glx: so now we have 6 (!) Windows targets :P
13:22<TrueBrain>it starts to feels a bit excessive :)
13:24<+glx>it's just testing with 3 different compilers (and 2 arch)
13:24<TrueBrain>I have no problems approving it once you fixed the errors btw :)
13:24<TrueBrain>"just" testing a 3x2
13:24<TrueBrain>I love how you used the word "just" there :D
13:25<+glx>I could add clang on MSVC too ;)
13:25<+glx>but not really used
13:28<TrueBrain>I still would like to add an sdl1 target
13:28<TrueBrain>but that is tricky without a lot of copy/paste
13:28<+glx>you can add it to the matrix
13:28<TrueBrain>not easily
13:29<TrueBrain>as it needs to install a different dependency
13:29<TrueBrain>if you have a good idea, I am all ears :)
13:29<+glx>that's easy, you put the dependency name in the matrix, and pass it to apt step
13:30<+glx>I use a similar trick with msys2
13:31<Wolf01><TrueBrain> it starts to feels a bit excessive :) <- at least one or another should compile and run fine, not like some other os projects I tried where the only target (win32) did not even compile
13:33<+glx>ok the breaking define was added 14 years ago, I think it should be fine to remove it as it's now unneeded
13:37<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #8699: Fix d437445c: also use std::chrono for the GRFFileScanner modal window
13:37<dwfreed>yeah, you can have arbitrary things in your matrix in GH Actions
13:37<TrueBrain>my PR makes all the "required" things break again :P
13:37<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8699: Fix d437445c: also use std::chrono for the GRFFileScanner modal window
13:38<TrueBrain>dwfreed: there is a difference between knowing the capabilities of a system and thinking of using it a certain way :)
13:38<+glx>oh of course
13:38<+glx>like I broke it when adding VS2017 to the matrix
13:38<TrueBrain>glx: can you test my PR to see if I really fixed the issue? I don't have that many NewGRFs to really notice it :D
13:39<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8697: GRF scanner progress updating no longer works due to _realtime_tick changes
13:39<andythenorth>supermop_Home now we are going meta :)
13:44<TrueBrain>Found SDL: /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libSDLmain.a;/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/;-lpthread (found version "1.2.15")
13:44<TrueBrain>w00p, that works :D
13:45<TrueBrain>yeah .. we now test all our video drivers again :)
13:45<TrueBrain>which has value :P
13:45<+glx>well we don't test if driver works, but it should at least build ;)
13:48<LordAro>we don't test if any of them work :p
13:51<+glx>hmm I removed the define, and now it fails to link on something unrelated (at least locally)
13:53<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep updated pull request #8480: Multitile depots
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13:56<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 approved pull request #8699: Fix d437445c: also use std::chrono for the GRFFileScanner modal window
13:56<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed issue #8697: GRF scanner progress updating no longer works due to _realtime_tick changes
13:56<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8699: Fix d437445c: also use std::chrono for the GRFFileScanner modal window
13:56<TrueBrain>tnx glx !
13:57<TrueBrain>very happy bugs are reported before the first nightly
13:57<TrueBrain>that is just \o/
13:57<TrueBrain>I disabled the Linux CI targets for now as required, and enabled the VS2017
13:57<TrueBrain>possibly we need some more forcing
13:57<TrueBrain>might as well add the new linux ones as required
13:57<+glx>I intentionnaly not enable VS2017 :)
13:58<+glx>2019 should be enough to validate
13:58<TrueBrain>if you run it, make it required, tbfh
13:58<TrueBrain>otherwise people will miss it failing :)
13:58<TrueBrain>what is the point in CIing something if you don't care about the result :P
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14:01<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master
14:01<@DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
14:01<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8693: Feature: allow changing the game-speed other than 1x and warp-speed
14:02<+michi_cc>TrueBrain: I just rebased OpenGL and now I have to rebase and detangle again :P
14:03<TrueBrain>I promise you, it is not really a lot of work
14:03<TrueBrain>but you can also wait till I finish my "merge video drivers" PR
14:03<TrueBrain>as I will cherry-pick some OpenGL thingies in there already
14:03<TrueBrain>mostly the draw_lock unlock/lock stuff :)
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14:03<+michi_cc>In that case I will glady wait :)
14:03<TrueBrain>(I know it is not a lot of work, as I tested my changeset on top of the OpenGL branch :P)
14:04<TrueBrain>should be done tomorrow, so you don't even have to wait that long! :)
14:04<TrueBrain>its silly how the same all video drivers are now
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14:04<TrueBrain>for their main game loop
14:05<andythenorth>crazy russian snow eating train
14:05<TrueBrain>I just have to figure out a way to make it clean between all drivers, given SDL2 has a weird unrolled loop the others do not ..
14:06<andythenorth>it conveyors the snow into the wagons behind
14:06<andythenorth>supermop_Home see, the Arctic is Flat? :)
14:06<andythenorth>oh wait...that's Texas
14:07<TrueBrain>I love that "the thread" now derailed in MY ARCTIC IS FLAT
14:07<TrueBrain>which is a nice change of pace :)
14:07<andythenorth>I am intrigued why we don't have this climate
14:07<_dp_>I always felt that subarctic is more like alpine despite the name
14:08<_dp_>it's even called that way in code in some places
14:08<TrueBrain>_dp_: that is because that was the intention :)
14:08<TrueBrain>it needs from sea level to snow level
14:08<_dp_>like snowline isn't even a thing in subarctic
14:08<_dp_>permafrost is :p
14:08<TrueBrain>so the solution is .. rename the climate!
14:08<TrueBrain>I like your way of thinking :D
14:10*andythenorth reading
14:11<andythenorth>we lack a cfa / cfb / csb mediterranean / californian climate
14:11<TrueBrain>its funny that it turns out, subarctic only has to do with the temp-range
14:11<andythenorth>I always forget to call it subarctic, instead of arctic
14:11<TrueBrain>not with type of landscape :P
14:11<andythenorth>but I thought it was
14:11<andythenorth>well the temp range affects the type of flora and fauna
14:12<andythenorth>but not the topology so much
14:12<andythenorth>so much
14:13<TrueBrain>I was shocked, the nightly triggered close to its intended time
14:13<andythenorth>anyway we could just bin it all off, invent 7 climates and super awesome presets for them
14:13*_dp_ lives in subarctic
14:13<_dp_>or, well, close enough :p
14:13<TrueBrain>andythenorth: that is one way of going, yes :)
14:13<andythenorth>temperate, mediterranean, alpine (temperate green with snow), subarctic, subtropic, toyland, mars
14:13<TrueBrain>but the game is a bit tight to the 4 climates
14:13<TrueBrain>for some reason, basesets
14:13<andythenorth>stuff and things :)
14:14<andythenorth>yes, I do not volunteer to draw mediterranean :P
14:14<TrueBrain>not sure if we can mix them :P
14:14<andythenorth>alpine was already done, there are sets of green-snow tiles
14:14<andythenorth>oh I forgot brickland
14:15<TrueBrain>well, presets can force certain NewGRFs
14:15<andythenorth>discord gravedug brickland today
14:15<TrueBrain>so strictly seen, your idea can work just fine
14:15<TrueBrain>if they can enforce a certain baseset, I guess
14:15<andythenorth>brickland revival!
14:15<TrueBrain>omg, I wrote brickland did I not?
14:15<TrueBrain>got really annoyed by all the people on the sidelines telling me what to do
14:15<TrueBrain>I remember vague :)
14:16<andythenorth>lacks snow in that picture
14:16<andythenorth>must be a variable snowline :)
14:16<TrueBrain>I still want to make a legocad -> NewGRF tool
14:16<TrueBrain>its just fun to design your own trains etc
14:16<andythenorth>found some snow
14:16<_dp_>yeah merge existing climates and split into new ones! :p
14:17<_dp_>or, well, I guess toyland can stay xDD
14:17<andythenorth>shard for different climates in same game
14:17<andythenorth>go big!
14:17<TrueBrain>with presets, I would think we get a bit more room to give people control over detailed settings in the terrain generator
14:17<andythenorth>if we knew how it worked :)
14:17<andythenorth>I patched it once
14:17<andythenorth>was funny
14:17<TrueBrain>which reminds me, tomorrow I will PR the removal of "max height"
14:18<TrueBrain>and just fix it to some value like 240 or what-ever
14:18<_dp_>funny fact - citymania has it's own max height setting
14:18<_dp_>because apparently default one was not enough :p
14:18<TrueBrain>or at the very least, remove it from the mapgen window
14:18<TrueBrain>and to settings
14:18<TrueBrain>as it is such an anti-setting
14:19<TrueBrain>I just hate that it has nothing to do with the mapgen
14:19<TrueBrain>its such bull
14:19<LordAro>not worth trying to make it actually affect mapgen?
14:19<LordAro>presumably that was the original intent
14:19<TrueBrain>we can always reintroduce a new "max height"
14:19<TrueBrain>but the current one already has a function, which is just bullshit to allow people to configure it :P
14:20<TrueBrain>at least, I could not come up with any use-case
14:20<TrueBrain>except for the very niche
14:20<TrueBrain>what I would like to do, in presets, is allow a bit better tuning of height of mapgens, yes
14:20<TrueBrain>instead of this fixed table we have now
14:20<TrueBrain>depending on map-size
14:21<TrueBrain>as that would actually mean we have a "height" setting that does what people expect
14:22<TrueBrain>but yeah, possibly good to do that in 1 PR .. 1 commit removing the current bullshit
14:22<TrueBrain>1 to add a new setting
14:22<TrueBrain>current problem is that it is a 2x2 table, depending on map-size and terrain type
14:22<TrueBrain>meh .. will figure something out I am sure :)
14:23<andythenorth>so it doesn't affect map max height? :O
14:23<andythenorth>explains why it never worked for me
14:23<TrueBrain>it does effect the MAP max height
14:23<TrueBrain>just not the map GEN max height
14:23<andythenorth>oh words
14:23<andythenorth>are so subtle
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14:24<andythenorth>this is winning
14:24<andythenorth>I assumed I was using it wrong
14:24<TrueBrain>this is what I have been telling people for weeks now .. NOBODY understand what it does
14:24<TrueBrain>as what it does is bullshit
14:24<TrueBrain>it caps the technical max height level of the game to that value
14:24<TrueBrain>mapgen just does its thing
14:24<TrueBrain>and if it tries to go above it, it flattens it
14:24<andythenorth>you told me this before
14:24<TrueBrain>I did
14:25<andythenorth>it was just so lolz my brain discarded it
14:25<TrueBrain>with as much WTF?!?!?!?! as I do now
14:25<TrueBrain>its balony
14:25<TrueBrain>which made me giggle most this morning, as I say: nobody understand what the setting does
14:25<TrueBrain>showing he has no clue what it does
14:25<TrueBrain>I cannot blame him
14:25<andythenorth>I think you'll have to tell me a third time before I remember
14:25<TrueBrain>but that arrogance is amuzing
14:25<TrueBrain>if a dev tells you it doesn't do what anyone things .. take a hint :)
14:25<andythenorth>but it will impose a max height, for small values?
14:25<andythenorth>during gen?
14:26<andythenorth>or is that also bullshit?
14:26<TrueBrain>if you put it at 3, nothing will be above height level 3
14:26<frosch123>oh wow, someone actually noticed the issue with town names in scenario editor :o
14:26<TrueBrain>what mapgen would have done above it, would be flat
14:26<TrueBrain>frosch123: yes; one of our only true scenario creators
14:26<andythenorth>oh so that's the plateau maker :D
14:26<TrueBrain>he asked me on Discord, I told him to make an issue
14:26<frosch123>i was wondering whether anyone would notice, and then it takes only a few days
14:26<TrueBrain>thought you could appreciate it :)
14:27<frosch123>TrueBrain: well, i was kind of aware of the issue. i just postponed it :)
14:27<frosch123>so, sorry to him :)
14:27<andythenorth>so delete all the cargo_age_period crap from Iron Horse?
14:27<TrueBrain>bewust onbewust, how we say in Dutch
14:27<andythenorth>it does nothing
14:27<TrueBrain>that is fine :)
14:27<andythenorth>is that a savegame bump yes/no? /me wonders
14:28<frosch123>is it hacktoberfest again?
14:29<_dp_>btw, it's mildly annoying to retune terragen settings for all the game modes each time new version comes out >:D
14:29<_dp_>though I guess I should just switch to custom terragens already
14:35<frosch123>TrueBrain: you could try setting max_height after map generation to max-generated-height + something
14:35<TrueBrain>what is the use? :)
14:35<TrueBrain>why not just 240 or something
14:35<frosch123>max_height is used to define relative heights
14:35<frosch123>snowline to 70%
14:36<frosch123>use a variable snowline height newgrf
14:36<frosch123>like opengfx+landscape
14:36<TrueBrain>snowline is an option, not?
14:36<TrueBrain>anyway, for those values we can use the max-generated-height, sure
14:36<frosch123>variable snowline height is defined as percentage of max height
14:36<TrueBrain>so there are 2 snowline heights in the game?
14:36<frosch123>no, 365
14:36<TrueBrain>2 variables :P
14:37<andythenorth>365 / 2?
14:37*andythenorth pedant
14:37<frosch123>oh, it's also used to save heightmaps
14:38<frosch123>well, you can grep yourself
14:38<frosch123>but i think removing it is not as easy as it sounds
14:38<TrueBrain>as I mentioned, at the very least move it to settings, away from mapgen :)
14:38<TrueBrain>if one fails, the next will have to do :P
14:39<TrueBrain>and if that fails .. well .. something at least
14:39<TrueBrain>just to start untangling this web :P
14:41*andythenorth deleted cargo_age_period from everything except metro trains
14:41<TrueBrain>andythenorth: as promised
14:41<andythenorth>now to see if it has made any difference to my savegame
14:41<andythenorth>(spoiler: it won't)
14:41<andythenorth>TrueBrain \o/ :D
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14:43<andythenorth>bye bye cargo again crap, and the need to maintain you :)
14:44<andythenorth>and the player requests to show it in buy menu, even though it will DO BUGGER ALL IN MOST CASES
14:44<andythenorth>another case of a thing that looks like it does a thing, in OpenTTD
14:44<andythenorth>but does nothing like the thing at all
14:44<andythenorth>why did I write 'again' not 'aging'
14:45<andythenorth>there is no hope :D
14:46<milek7_>>Well, at 60fps, I can hit a simulation rate of 9999.99 frames/sec (on an empty map, I know, cheating). It turns out, I found the upper-limit of the Framerate Window ...
14:47<milek7_>eeh, it's not that you need these patches to hit 9999fps limit ;P
14:47<frosch123>ottd speedrun?
14:48<frosch123>is there something like ender pearls in ottd?
14:49<nielsm>maintaining company rating 1000 for 5 years maybe
14:49<andythenorth>lol, removing the cargo aging 'bonus', all modified trains now make more money
14:50*andythenorth suspects confounding factors in the savegame :D
14:50<TrueBrain>frosch123: yesterday someone should me people are speed running OpenTTD ... where FF is allowed
14:50<TrueBrain>"winning" in 10 seconds
14:50<TrueBrain>no clue what people are smoking
14:51<nielsm>two years ago or something someone did post on tt-forums about speedrunning
14:51<andythenorth>hmm if pax route has multiple transfers, removing cargo aging bonus means some vehicles get less transfer credit penalty?
14:51<_dp_>frosch123, yes, sell the train after delivery and buy the new one near the pickup :p
14:51<nielsm>and I told them that ffwd makes no sense in that context because it depends on machine speed
14:51<andythenorth>speedruns now have different rules
14:51<andythenorth>using some custom grf
14:52<andythenorth>discord explained it to me :)
14:52<andythenorth>but I forgot :)
14:53<nielsm>why don't they use a GS that auto-pauses the game when the goal is reached and then shows the number of in-game days
14:54<_dp_>nielsm, too much sense :p
14:54<_dp_>add some more and you'll get citymania :p
14:55<LordAro>_dp_: that strategy is only effective if you're an AI
14:55<andythenorth>I think it's more of a Train Whack! style entertainment :)
14:55<LordAro>too much work for an actual person beyond a couple of vehicles
14:55<LordAro>rondje does it, iirc
14:56<_dp_>LordAro, pfft, I've seen actual person juggling 6 trains on a single line with depots :p
14:56<_dp_>selling train is nothing in comparison :P
14:56<_dp_>or single track I guess that's called...
14:59<_dp_>all to save a little bit of money on not doing passing loops
15:12<andythenorth>so how do station ratings work? :)
15:12<andythenorth>if I run a piglet vehicle constantly, AND autoreplace it aggressively, will I get max rating?
15:13<andythenorth>newgrf vehicle with 1 year life?
15:13<_dp_>aggressive autoreplace gives you +13%
15:13<frosch123>it also needs to look fast
15:15<frosch123>lol, player-written game-mechanics wiki are always silly
15:15<andythenorth>so 255km/h?
15:15<frosch123>i guess it's an approximation
15:15<andythenorth>I never 100% trust the wiki
15:15<andythenorth>what % is appropriate to trust wiki? :)
15:15<frosch123>use a ship with 127km/h
15:16<andythenorth>so attach canal to every station :)
15:16<frosch123>set it's livespan to 2 years, so it is auto-renewed often
15:16<andythenorth>I think giving vehicles some property for 'affects rating' would be interesting :)
15:16<andythenorth>but as I don't understand rating mechanic :)
15:16<andythenorth>I can't propose
15:17<frosch123>did you try extreme values on loading speed?
15:17<frosch123>try changing vehicle properties, which players actually notice
15:18<frosch123>i think default is 5, so you could try making it 5 times slower
15:18<_dp_>andythenorth, what's the point?
15:18<_dp_>andythenorth, best case nothing changes, worst case you get a rating pushing exploit
15:22<andythenorth>_dp_ I'd like to get higher ratings
15:22<_dp_>advertise! :p
15:23<andythenorth>now I know about statues, I can get 82%
15:23<andythenorth>but not more
15:23<andythenorth>oh station with recently replaced trains has 84%
15:24<andythenorth>it's always bothered me that I can't win that
15:24<_dp_>well, you get easy 77 + 17 for speed
15:24<_dp_>other than that is only age and ads
15:24<andythenorth>I did have 100% in FIRS, but that was a bit weird
15:24<andythenorth>it de-incentivises providing regular service
15:25<andythenorth>and just lets cargo pile up with no consequence
15:25<_dp_>cargo pile gets you from +16 to -35 so it's quite important
15:26<andythenorth>not if the callback sets the value to 100% in grf :P
15:26<_dp_>ah, that yes
15:26<andythenorth>maybe I should restore the station rating to FIRS
15:26<andythenorth>losing is boring
15:26<andythenorth>10/10 is always the score you want
15:27<andythenorth>what's the newagerating switch?
15:28<andythenorth>If the newagerating switch is turned on, the calculation changes. You get 33 points for vehicles younger than 5 years, and get 0 points for vehicles older than 21 years. Between these two ages, score drops slowly, by 2 points per year.
15:29<andythenorth>no setting for that in OpenTTD
15:29<_dp_>yeah, that doesn't seem to be a thing in openttd
15:30<andythenorth>well maybe FIRS needs a new way to fix ratings
15:30<andythenorth>the speed thing is weird
15:31<_dp_>station ratings work kind of ok, you get about 70% normal rating, 80% with statue, 90% after replacement and 100% with regular advertisement
15:31<_dp_>so the more money and effort you spend the higher it gets
15:32<andythenorth>lots of slow vehicles in grfs I make
15:32<andythenorth>I never considered that they are crap for ratings
15:32<andythenorth>this might require a redesign
15:32<andythenorth>or maybe some explanation somewhere
15:33<_dp_>well, I'd say slow vehicles are crap for everything but looks :p
15:33<andythenorth>maybe in vehicle windows: "Station rating: poor"
15:33<_dp_>you want max speed for profit anyway
15:33<andythenorth>different game style
15:34<andythenorth>and lots of FIRS cargos are practically flat profit curve
15:34<_dp_>yeah, but you're not after max effeciency than maxing station ratings are also irrelevant
15:34<andythenorth>it's just like losing
15:34<andythenorth>if you're gonna get scored on a thing, you want 100%
15:34<andythenorth>anything else is ~failing
15:34<_dp_>x2 it :p
15:35<_dp_>so 50% becomes 100%, and 100% is 200%
15:35<_dp_>double win :p
15:35<andythenorth>how many ad campaigns do I need to buy to get 100%?
15:35<andythenorth>I bought like 10, but the rating hasn't moved yet
15:35<_dp_>but it won't last long
15:36<_dp_>and it only works within a certain radius from town center
15:36<_dp_>20 tiles for large
15:36<andythenorth>yeah these are further than that
15:36<andythenorth>I have minimal towns, towns just get in the way and have no purpose
15:37<_dp_>well, it's always same radius so town size doesn't matter
15:37<andythenorth>yeah I've found a freight station near a town, now 99%
15:37<andythenorth>so is there a GS that will just buy ad campaigns for me?
15:37<andythenorth>or just deduct money and increase my rating?
15:38<_dp_>cmclient has auto advertisement
15:38<andythenorth>can it be included in vanilla? :)
15:38<andythenorth>but might as well just use grf
15:38<andythenorth>'auto win' mechanics :P
15:39<andythenorth>ok so, adjust ratings calculation to account for slower vehicles in grf, nerf the age thing because it's stupid?
15:39<_dp_>it kinda should be included in vanilla imo
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15:39<_dp_>not a bad mechanic
15:39<_dp_>pay to win even more pay :p
15:39<andythenorth>'advertising subscription'
15:40<andythenorth>hmm, this again precludes any role for 'special' vehicles
15:40<JGR>Ratings and such seems a bit too much like micromanagement hoop-jumping to me
15:40<andythenorth>cargo aging is junk
15:41<andythenorth>negative run cost isn't possible
15:41<andythenorth>rating bonus isn't possible
15:41<andythenorth>more ideas?
15:41<JGR>If you did manage to have negative run costs, I'm sure someone would just run an empty train full of restaurant cars in a circle :)
15:41<andythenorth>first thing I thought of :)
15:41<_dp_>andythenorth, make it sound funny? :p
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15:42<andythenorth>JGR I made this flash game for the launch of Railroad Tycoon 3, but I shipped it with a bug...
15:43<andythenorth>after launch players discovered you could just loop the train to win :)
15:44<andythenorth>I should have made the train alpha shift to black when it crashed :P
15:44<andythenorth>flash could do that
15:44<andythenorth>tint, not alpha *
15:45<_dp_>what I like to do is just have a steady progression of vehicles with a faster one every few years
15:45<_dp_>no property shenanigans, no railtype conversions just simple and straightforward
15:45<_dp_>and make up for it in other places
15:46<_dp_>well, I guess engine goals are an option as well now
15:47<andythenorth>use it for daylength
15:48<JGR>I tend to run my network with trains at roughly the same speed for the whole game
15:48<_dp_>I don't need daylength :p
15:48<JGR>I don't usually bother with vehicle progression, except for things like separate high speed networks later in the game
15:49<andythenorth>so many playstyles :)
15:50<andythenorth>well maybe restaurant cars just halve the running costs of the other vehicles in conists
15:50<andythenorth>consist *
15:51<_dp_>yeah, drunk cows pay more! :p
15:51<andythenorth>cows buy sandwiches too
15:52<andythenorth>seems a bit limited, not sure other authors will be able to make use of it :)
15:52<andythenorth>I guess they'll just carry on setting pointless cargo_age_period values :)
15:53<JGR>As long as they don't cause desyncs or any other bugs it doesn't really matter
15:53<_dp_>yep, all is irrelevant but max speed :p
15:53<JGR>Money isn't that hard to come by once you've got started
15:53<_dp_>speed and powah!!!
15:55<_dp_>whenever I play unfamiliar set I just pick the fastest engine and add enough of it for a decent acceleration xD
15:56<andythenorth>there really aren't many dimensions to make vehicles 'interesting'
15:56<andythenorth>it's why stats are very levelled across most of Iron Horse
15:57<andythenorth>waste of time trying to calculate exactly which vehicle is 'optimum'
15:57<andythenorth>just pick one with roughly correct power, that looks nice
15:57<andythenorth>and attach wagons that refit the cargo, that you like look of
15:58<_dp_>I don't even know what can be done to make them "interesting"
15:58<_dp_>they're just used to get cargo from a to b
15:58<JGR>Wagon capacity is even more a case of just pick the best one
15:58<_dp_>why buiyng the train suddenly needs to be a puzzle? :p
15:58<JGR>I don't know why some set authors include rubbish wagons
15:58<andythenorth>I've had multiple requests to make some wagons more 'advantageous'
15:58<andythenorth>but then the game is 'read stats, ignore all other wagons'
16:01<andythenorth>but stupidly I did add 'luxury' pax coaches with lower capacity
16:01<andythenorth>on fallacy that cargo age period could be used to boost their income
16:01<andythenorth>now I have been trying to retcon that for about 2 years :P
16:02<JGR>That seems more like the sort of thing that should affect ratings
16:02<JGR>Station ratings, that is
16:03<andythenorth>I considered adding a new pax class 'first class'
16:03<andythenorth>but I think I'd have to do a house set
16:04<JGR>I tried playing ECS once. Having separate passengers and tourists was a bit awkward.
16:05<andythenorth>I think it would be horrible with cdist, balancing consists
16:05<andythenorth>cdist has quite nasty cascades in complex networks
16:05<_dp_>with how iron horse is I don't really see why would anyone use it for any kind of goal game
16:05<andythenorth>increase capacity on one link, another one gets overloaded soon
16:06<_dp_>has a lot of stuff with tons of nice details but 0 gamplay difference
16:06<andythenorth>NUTS for goal games surely?
16:06<_dp_>goal set imo should have few but very distinct trains
16:06<_dp_>nuts is too nuts :p
16:06*andythenorth is surprised
16:06<JGR>Cdist with passengers really requires that the generation rate is reduced a bit
16:07<andythenorth>I am playing with Improved Town Layouts grf, it helps a lot
16:07<andythenorth>by capping building sizes
16:07<_dp_>I did that thing once when I disabled everything but meow trains from nuts and adjusted some stats
16:13<andythenorth>maybe I just level the capacity on the 'luxury' vehicles
16:13<andythenorth>with the 'standard' vehicles
16:13<andythenorth>and the loading speed
16:13<andythenorth>just visual choices
16:14<andythenorth>or delete them, simpler
16:14<JGR>You could make them a livery option? :)
16:15<andythenorth>using cargo subtypes? :(
16:16<_dp_>give every third or so "luxury" skin randomly? :)
16:16<andythenorth>they have position->sprite rules already
16:17<andythenorth>'restaurant' car sprites are faked in if the consist is long enough
16:18<andythenorth>so...Luxury Pax Coach compared to Pax Coach :D
16:18<andythenorth>costs more
16:18<andythenorth>carries less
16:18<andythenorth>same speed
16:18<andythenorth>higher running cost
16:18<andythenorth>lower loading speed
16:20<Wuzzy>hey all. i noticed that there are some sounds defined in OpenTTD that are currently unused, like SND_22_CAR_HORN. are the planned to be used at all in future or can i consider those sounds to be "legacy" forever?
16:21<_dp_>andythenorth, I feel like you're following some real-life logic and expect it to have gameplay effect
16:21<_dp_>don't think that'll ever work in openttd :p
16:22<_dp_>if you want gameplay effect just set whatever stats needed to achieve that however unreallistic they may be
16:22<andythenorth>this is why the arrow is flying towards 'delete'
16:22<Xaroth>andythenorth: perhaps finetune some of the stats.. perhaps not the carrying capacity, but the loading speed?
16:23<Xaroth>that way it might be a viable alternative
16:23<Wuzzy>am I just in everyone's ignore list or why am i always ignored? 🙁
16:23<Xaroth>without making it better by default
16:23<andythenorth>I know that players report they like having a choice between 'luxury' and not
16:23<andythenorth>but they think it actually has a benefit on longer routes
16:24<andythenorth>Wuzzy you have strayed into the common position here
16:24<andythenorth>you are currently the only person on this whole planet interested in OpenTTD sounds
16:24<andythenorth>unless there are others, but not in irc / GitHub (possible)
16:24<andythenorth>this happens
16:25<Xaroth>OpenTTD has sounds?
16:26<frosch123>Wuzzy: i checked that. those sounds are not used in ttd. by defintiion they are thus intentionally unused in ottd
16:26<Wuzzy>frosch123: ah thanks
16:26<frosch123>i have some wip diff to rename them in the source
16:26<Wuzzy>so then i can close those issues then
16:26<Wuzzy>oh right
16:27<Wuzzy>yeah, better to add a source comment to avoid future confusion =)
16:27<frosch123>about half of them are mislabeled :p
16:27<Wuzzy>how? they seem correct to me
16:27*andythenorth looks into cargo payment curves
16:27<Wuzzy>except the unused ones
16:27<andythenorth>maybe I can make pax payment decay really aggressive
16:28<frosch123>the sounds named "truck" are used by busses. the sounds named "plane crash" are regular toyland planes starting, ... and so on
16:28<Wuzzy>oh you mean in source code?
16:28<_dp_>andythenorth, I can give you profit calc sources if you really want to dive into that xD
16:29<andythenorth>it's here
16:29<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenSFX] Wuzzy2 commented on issue #18: Make sounds for "unused" empty sounds?
16:29<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenSFX] Wuzzy2 closed issue #18: Make sounds for "unused" empty sounds?
16:30<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Wuzzy2 commented on issue #8619: Unused sounds
16:30<andythenorth>_dp_ I think I tried before, and there is a limit to how steep the decay can be?
16:31<frosch123>Wuzzy: <- the comments are correct now, but i need to find nice names for the enum items
16:31<_dp_>andythenorth, I don't remember, haven't looked at cargo payments in a long long while
16:31<andythenorth>I think there's a floor under the initial time period
16:32<andythenorth>the formula breaks my brain :P
16:32<Wuzzy> might be a good reference for names, i wrote it myself and i think the names are true
16:33<Wuzzy>i created this page while i was working on sound replacements for OpenSFX
16:33<_dp_>andythenorth, wiki has it better
16:34<_dp_>andythenorth, yeah, looks like there isn't much you can do with that curve
16:34<_dp_>basically you can only move the middle point
16:35<_dp_>though mb you can effectively change steepnes with cargo aging
16:35<_dp_>stretch/compress it basically
16:37<andythenorth>for the distances I play, aging doesn't seem to have an effect
16:37<andythenorth>it will vary by speed of vehicles obvs.
16:38<_dp_>yeah, that's possible I guess
16:38*andythenorth wonders if _dp_ has ticks vs vehicle speed vs tiles graph :)
16:38<andythenorth>in the magic graphs ?
16:38<_dp_>hard to tell without profit sim
16:40<andythenorth>I did have a malus set on 'normal' vehicles, but I'm not convinced it did much
16:40<_dp_>andythenorth, these 3 are connected
16:40<_dp_>andythenorth, you know 2 you can calc third
16:40<_dp_>s = v * t :p
16:42<andythenorth>that's why I thought it might have a graph already :)
16:43<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenSFX] Wuzzy2 commented on issue #9: Sound cleanup roadmap
16:43<andythenorth>I don't know over what distance the cargo aging property becomes effective
16:43<andythenorth>previous tests suggested it was about 64 tiles for say 100mph train
16:43<andythenorth>based on testing in a big savegame
16:43<_dp_>I only have
16:43<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenSFX] Wuzzy2 commented on issue #21: Update translations in 'lang' directory
16:43<_dp_>but cargo aging is not implemented and it only have default vehicle and cargo stats
16:44<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenSFX] Wuzzy2 commented on issue #10: Change legacy Mercurial code in scripts and README
16:44<_dp_>it's not that hard to add other stuff, mostly a ui issue
16:45<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenSFX] Wuzzy2 commented on issue #2: Relicense OpenSFX under an actual FOSS license
16:45<_dp_>but I don't have time to work on it atm
16:45<andythenorth>NP :)
16:45*andythenorth tests cargo age period 0 in current game
16:45<_dp_>I can give you sources if you want to play with it, shouldn't be that hard to get working
16:46<_dp_>cmclient should be able to export stats from the game as well
16:46<andythenorth>Timberwolf snowploughs...station rating bonus :P
16:46<andythenorth>or negative running costs :P
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16:54<andythenorth>I think I could keep the malus
16:54<andythenorth>on standard pax coaches
16:54<andythenorth>but I need to normalise it for speed maybe
16:57<andythenorth>it would be much easier to just explain to players 'this vehicle earns a 50% premium per passenger'
16:57<andythenorth>instead of 'this requires routes of about 64 tiles to make any difference, and that also depends on vehicle speed'
17:08<TrueBrain>w00p, already have my first bug-report about the 60fps .. something to check out tomorrow :D
17:08<TrueBrain>forums can be useful :)
17:09<TrueBrain>just no clue what would cause that, but okay
17:09<TrueBrain>that user did an hilarious experiment btw :P
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17:21<NGC3982>is it possible to redirect console output on dedicated server to file?
17:22<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler opened pull request #8700: Change: Recolour windows for consistency
17:23<TrueBrain>whats the reason? CONSISTENCY! :D
17:23<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8700: Change: Recolour windows for consistency
17:26<_dp_>I only suggested dark bg for graphs... how on earth did it turn into a 2 screen long list of changes? :/
17:26<TrueBrain>I don't mind :)
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17:28<JGR>NGC3982, use the "script" console command, or just use normal shell redirection
17:29<NGC3982>i solved it by forking it and using a specifik config file
17:29<andythenorth>so...can we add train property 2E?
17:29<NGC3982>that makes openttd create the game files in config file directory, including openttd.log
17:29<andythenorth>'cargo payment rate multiplier'
17:30<_dp_>ok, I can already imagine I won't like cream towns :p
17:31<andythenorth>well we can all do some nitpick replies right?
17:31<andythenorth>preferably contradictory ones? :)
17:31<andythenorth>contribs. love that :)
17:32<andythenorth>something like this, if it's net improvement, ship it, iterate
17:32<JGR>Cargodist might be a bit of an issue for a cargo payment rate multiplier. The actual payment only occurs on the final leg.
17:32<andythenorth>I think it's a bad idea
17:33<andythenorth>it's just the most direct way to make a trade between capacity per unit length, and 'some other factor'
17:33<_dp_>andythenorth, would be much easier to discuss as a 4 separate changes :/
17:33<andythenorth>_dp_ probably, I am potato / potato :)
17:42<andythenorth>ha I think I try running cost lolz for luxury cars
17:42<andythenorth>tie it to load factor
17:42<andythenorth>0% load, running coast 2x normal pax coach
17:42<andythenorth>50% load, same running cost as normal pax coach
17:43<andythenorth>100% load, running cost 0 (due to sale of sandwiches, teacakes and gin)
17:44*andythenorth to skeep
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17:54<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #8698: Add: [Actions] msys2/MinGW CI
17:57<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #8700: Change: Recolour windows for consistency
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18:05<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on pull request #8700: Change: Recolour windows for consistency
18:06<+glx>I don't understand why it fails
18:06<+glx>but the 2 failing lines are similar
18:07<+glx> return std::min<uint>(IndustryPool::MAX_SIZE, ScaleByMapSize(numof_industry_table[difficulty]));
18:07<+glx> total = std::min<uint>(TownPool::MAX_SIZE, total);
18:07<+glx>both use std::min
18:14<NGC3982>openttd -D -c ~/openttd-1/openttd-1.cfg -f -x
18:14<NGC3982>that's neat
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18:22<+glx>ok adding some casts and it works, it's weird
18:25<LordAro>glx: something to do with inlining and mismatched types, from when i did the conversion to std::min
18:25<LordAro>the templated function means that types must be of the same signedness
18:26<+glx>size_t should work (in 32bit it's uint anyway)
18:27<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #8698: Add: [Actions] msys2/MinGW CI
18:29<+glx>compiler probably does weird things
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18:41<+glx>if I use a temp auto var for ::MAX_SIZE and use the var in std::min it compiles fine too
18:41<+glx>I blame the compiler :)
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18:58<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #8698: Add: [Actions] msys2/MinGW CI
19:00<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #8698: Add: [Actions] msys2/MinGW CI
19:00<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 opened pull request #8701: Codechange: rename sound ids to make more sense.
19:08<+glx>frosch123: maybe also rename CcPlaySound_XXX callbacks
19:10<frosch123>good idea
19:17<Timberwolf>60fps definitely enhances tge "ttain set" feel of sitting and watching stuff potter through a junction.
19:17<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 updated pull request #8701: Codechange: rename sound ids to make more sense.
19:17<Timberwolf>(mobile keyboard fail)
19:19<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #8701: Codechange: rename sound ids to make more sense.
19:20<frosch123>aww, my sed failed
19:21<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 updated pull request #8701: Codechange: rename sound ids to make more sense.
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22:01<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] joestringer updated pull request #8679: Fix: [Cygwin] Fix missing uint definition
22:01<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] joestringer commented on pull request #8679: Fix: [Cygwin] Fix missing uint definition
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---Logclosed Sat Feb 20 00:00:47 2021