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#openttd IRC Logs for 2021-02-23

---Logopened Tue Feb 23 00:00:51 2021
00:11<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac opened pull request #8733: Feature: Build train locomotive filter https://git.io/Jt7eH
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02:03<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] EratoNysiad commented on issue #8686: Unable to change townnames in Scenario editor after pr8566 https://git.io/JtMyZ
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04:46<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on pull request #8732: Change: Improve graph period markings https://git.io/Jt7sg
05:25<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh merged pull request #8720: Remove remaining Windows 95 support https://git.io/Jt9hY
05:34<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] orudge commented on pull request #8718: Change: [Actions] stop relying on external actions for trivial stuff, and rely on cmake tools to build, test and pack https://git.io/Jt7nA
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07:30<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler commented on pull request #8732: Change: Improve graph period markings https://git.io/Jt70C
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07:41<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on pull request #8732: Change: Improve graph period markings https://git.io/Jt7EZ
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07:48<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8732: Change: Improve graph period markings https://git.io/Jt7EA
07:48<TrueBrain>I like these small steps to change the GUIs :)
07:49<TrueBrain>means we can focus on a few small things, instead on EVERYTHING :D
07:53<andythenorth>big UI change usually fails IMHO
07:53<andythenorth>so +1
08:04<TrueBrain>michi_cc: https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/8731 <- any clue why 40bpp-anim is not selected? (totally unrelated to the report, but it stood out)
08:05<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler commented on pull request #8732: Change: Improve graph period markings https://git.io/Jt7zt
08:07<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8730: Codechange: [OpenGL] Load all OpenGL functions dynamically. https://git.io/Jt7zn
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08:15<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler updated pull request #8732: Change: Improve graph period markings https://git.io/JtQjQ
08:19<TrueBrain>frosch123: assuming you read your backlog, ^^, is that the way to do it with language files? :)
08:19<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler commented on pull request #8732: Change: Improve graph period markings https://git.io/Jt7g3
08:20<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on pull request #8732: Change: Improve graph period markings https://git.io/Jt7gn
08:21<TrueBrain>what I kinda miss with GitHub, is a place to work on bigger things, like this UI stuff
08:21<TrueBrain>all these changes are iterations of each other
08:21<_dp_>ui scaling makes these graphs noticeable worse :(
08:21<TrueBrain>now the conversation continues in an PR, which is nice
08:21<TrueBrain>but not the place .. but we don't have another place
08:21<TrueBrain>creating a branch or fork alone is not enough
08:21<TrueBrain>as it is just a continues conversation, basically
08:22<TrueBrain>not sure if there is a solution .. just something I have noticed more often lately
08:22<TrueBrain>guess it is mostly because I am a huge fan of small iterations :D
08:22<TrueBrain>_dp_: I can imagine that breaking these graphs, yes :P
08:23<TrueBrain>hmm, I guess if you could push new commits to an existing PR that you can merge again too, or something .. but I guess that would be rather messy .. hmm
08:23<_dp_>btw, I'm fine with that pr even the way it is
08:24<_dp_>it's definitely an improvement either way
08:24<TrueBrain>yeah, I got that. Yours is a nice addition on top of that
08:24<TrueBrain>I am just a bit annoyed GitHub doesn't really allow that workflow :)
08:24<TrueBrain>I want to merge the current work, while you continue the conversation to further improve it, basically
08:25<_dp_>yeah, that's fine
08:26<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8732: Change: Improve graph period markings https://git.io/Jt7gS
08:26<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler commented on pull request #8732: Change: Improve graph period markings https://git.io/Jt7gH
08:26<TrueBrain>_dp_: well, I am just annoyed GitHub basically tells us: fuck you, that won't happen :P
08:27<TrueBrain>I just noticed the dots in that graph are VERY oddly placed
08:27<TrueBrain>I have no clue if the dot is the start of the quarter
08:27<TrueBrain>the end
08:27<TrueBrain>the average
08:27<TrueBrain>the maxt
08:27<TrueBrain>the min
08:27<TrueBrain>it sits somewhere in the middle of the grid, for no clear reason
08:27<_dp_>btw, I'm starting to think that it would be better to make bg under labels black as well
08:27<_dp_>dot is the whole quarter so it's in the middle
08:28<_dp_>it's a quarterly chart basically, not monthly
08:28<TrueBrain>yeah, but measured at some point
08:28<TrueBrain>now it feels like it is measured half-way through the quarter
08:28<TrueBrain>if you get what I mean :)
08:28<TrueBrain>highcharts does this better :P
08:28<_dp_>well, highcharts one is monthly
08:29<LordAro>michi_cc: https://pasteboard.co/JPGOjq6.png i hate that i love this
08:29<TrueBrain>well, honestly, it shouldn't be a point
08:29<TrueBrain>LordAro: what are we looking at here? :D
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08:29<LordAro>michi_cc's upscale branch
08:29<_dp_>TrueBrain, you'd have to rename it to C1-C4 or smth to do like highcharts
08:29<LordAro>(with a couple of tweaks to make it compile)
08:30<_dp_>it's quarterly income/profit, it's not rly measured at any point
08:30<TrueBrain>LordAro: now the question, is it an improvement without :)
08:30<TrueBrain>_dp_: exactly why the dots are the problem for me :D
08:30<@peter1138>urgh 1) lime pickle, hot burning lips 2) doing an interactive rebase and finding some obsolete code hidden in it
08:30<TrueBrain>it is not their location, but the fact it is a dot :P
08:31<LordAro>i think it might be fun to have as an option, but definitely not default
08:31<TrueBrain>LordAro: well, I do like how it looks :)
08:31<@peter1138>LordAro, I did upscaling like that once, this looks a bit tidier though.
08:32<_dp_>TrueBrain, idk, imo having a dot makes no difference
08:32<TrueBrain>_dp_: the problem is with you centering the label, it becomes more fuzzy to me :)
08:32<@peter1138>https://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/ez9.png Still ther
08:32<TrueBrain>but as I said .. it just highlights that the dot is the weird thing
08:33<LordAro>peter1138: noice
08:33<TrueBrain>peter1138: looks cartoonish :)
08:33<TrueBrain>or aqua-paint
08:33<LordAro>cell-shaded OTTD when?
08:34<@peter1138>Hmm, that was from November. 20. 11.
08:34<TrueBrain>_dp_: some more looking at it .. I even wonder why it only makes a dot every 3 months, and why not just every month :P
08:34<@peter1138>It's good job nobody got paid for working on OpenTTD because, uh, nobody would get paid...
08:35<_dp_>TrueBrain, more noise
08:35<_dp_>unless you want moving average
08:35<TrueBrain>the more I look at it, the more I release why I never open these graphs
08:35<_dp_>well, not avg I guess but overlapping periods
08:35<TrueBrain>they are just freakinglish weird
08:36<_dp_>or actually avg because quartely income makes even less sense when displayed monthly xD
08:36<TrueBrain>just monthly income
08:36<TrueBrain>instead of quarterly is what I meant, ofc ;)
08:36<FLHerne>peter1138: You're back!
08:36<_dp_>monthly is just too much noise to be useful
08:36<TrueBrain>I don't see how it would be more or less noise than quarterly
08:36<FLHerne>peter1138: I apologise for being inconsiderate and bloody annoying :-(
08:37<_dp_>TrueBrain, monthly jumps average a bit over the quarter, no ?
08:37<TrueBrain>sorry, I don't understand what you wrote there :(
08:38<_2TallTyler>An OpenTTD month is so short I imagine it would be quite jumpy, yes. It's already all over the place quarterly if you have long-distance train routes or ships.
08:38<TrueBrain>that is a valid point
08:38<_2TallTyler>I suspect there's a reason it's quarterly
08:39<TrueBrain>be careful with suspicions there :P
08:39<TrueBrain>:D
08:39<TrueBrain>but okay, I should just stop looking at that graph, and it annoys me more every minute :D
08:39<TrueBrain>https://www.bea.gov/system/files/gdp1q20_3rd-chart-01.png
08:39<TrueBrain>such graphs are more what I would expect
08:40<TrueBrain>or, if you want more information density: https://i.insider.com/54457adc6bb3f7c33ca2a6aa
08:41<_2TallTyler>Bar graphs would definitely be a separate PR :P
08:41<TrueBrain>owh, for sure
08:41<TrueBrain>we already agreed your current work is just fine :)
08:41<TrueBrain>the next addition, now that is the question :D
08:41<_2TallTyler>Isn't part of the point of these graphs to compare your company's performance with that of other players? Bar graphs wouldn't work with that.
08:41<_dp_>bar charts would be an interesting change indeed
08:41<_dp_>not so much for the percent increase though imo :p
08:42<TrueBrain>no, not the percentage :)
08:42<TrueBrain>_2TallTyler: I guess ..
08:42<TrueBrain>it is just weird, to have a box of "3 months" and put a single dot somewhere in there to indicate: that month
08:42<TrueBrain>that, in my head, only works if you call it Q1 .. Q4
08:43<TrueBrain>but I agree with your reasoning there, people have different opinions throughout the world what Q1 .. Q4 means :D
08:43<_2TallTyler>I mean, comparing company performance is mostly useless beyond bragging rights, but when I play with my younger brothers (teenagers) they love to rag on me whenever they manage to get a quarter higher than mine.
08:43<TrueBrain>s/that month/that quarter/
08:44<_dp_>not that line chart works perfectly for comparing either...
08:44*_dp_ had some "let's disable dP transport so we can see other companies" moments
08:44<TrueBrain>haha, non-linear scales coming when? :D
08:45<_dp_>idk, I kinda gave up on improving ingame charts too much :p
08:45<TrueBrain>anyway, centered years, absolutely an improvement for me :)
08:45<_dp_>just make them look ok and move on
08:45<TrueBrain>"acceptance", yes :)
08:46<TrueBrain>browser plugin and run highcharts, you say? :D
08:46<_dp_>yep :p
08:46<_dp_>http://dpointer.org/data/ttd/stats27/
08:47<_2TallTyler>_dp_ How did you get centered years? Just put the year in the July string instead of Jan?
08:48<_dp_>_2TallTyler, yep, but it would be better to draw year separately
08:48<_dp_>to fix clipping bug
08:51<_dp_>there is a diff in my comment btw
08:51<_2TallTyler>What settings did you use to get clipping? I can't reproduce it.
08:52<_dp_>well, I just changed my ui size to double from quad but I have it all custom
08:52<_dp_>try making window smaller
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08:53<_dp_>oh, and mb up the font scaling
08:53<_dp_>https://i.imgur.com/ct2UKLH.png
08:53<_dp_>may or may not only happen with custom fonts as well
08:54<_dp_>basically, your year has to be wider than a column
08:54<_2TallTyler>Looks like an issue of text wrapping, not with reserving enough vertical space
08:54<_dp_>it wraps because it's to narrow
08:55<_dp_>and it's too narrow because for months it's correct or they'll overlap
08:55<_dp_>but year has space
08:56<_2TallTyler>It's not possible with default font. The window can't be made narrow enough.
08:58<_dp_>yeah, looking at it mb it's just my changes that did it
08:58<_dp_>I forgot to change UpdateWidgetSize
08:58<_dp_>I'll test more
08:59<_dp_>though rendering year separately makes more sense anyway
09:01<_2TallTyler>Yes, separately drawn year will be necessary with left-aligned months and center-aligned years. Still don't like centered months, sorry :)
09:02<_dp_>_2TallTyler, oh, looks like you forgot UpdateWidgetSize as well :p
09:03<_dp_>so it's actually your bug :p
09:05<_2TallTyler>Holy duplicate code, Batman
09:09<_dp_>that UpdateWidgetSize is kinda weird though in general
09:09<_dp_>it sums up all the label widgth but then draw divides them equally
09:09<_2TallTyler>I actually find the periods slightly disorienting without vertical grid lines, since the dots don't correspond to a month label. I think I will keep vertical grid lines in this PR.
09:09<_dp_>so it may only work ok-ish because of that year reserving some extra space
09:12<_dp_>ah, no, nvm, it doesn't su
09:12<_dp_>*sum
09:30<supermop_Home>yo
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09:41<FLHerne>oy
09:43<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #8718: Change: [Actions] stop relying on external actions for trivial stuff, and rely on cmake tools to build, test and pack https://git.io/Jt7KS
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09:51<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler updated pull request #8732: Change: Improve graph period markings https://git.io/JtQjQ
09:57<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler updated pull request #8732: Change: Improve graph period markings https://git.io/JtQjQ
09:58<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler commented on pull request #8732: Change: Improve graph period markings https://git.io/Jt7iY
10:01<Wolf01>https://www.thedrive.com/news/39378/how-canadians-derailed-a-train-and-drove-it-to-city-hall-for-power-after-a-brutal-ice-storm wow
10:02<_2TallTyler>"According to accounts from a train forum" is such an unreliable reference :P
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10:07<_dp_>_2TallTyler, how is centered year any more problematic than a left one? especially on the left side
10:08<sugarman>every1 i have questn
10:08<sugarman>how 2 put passengr in2 boat?
10:08<sugarman>:D
10:08<sugarman>_dp_:
10:08<_dp_>also I don't think that's important at all, just having full years show is more than enough to navigate the chart imo
10:09<sugarman>plz help do i need put truck lodin bay or bus stop by?
10:09<sugarman>_dp_:
10:10<sugarman>it no working
10:11<sugarman>it says passengr but no can put bus go to bay
10:11<sugarman>dock bay
10:11<sugarman>boat
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10:11<sugarman>argh asdf
10:14<Wolf01>sugarman: try with transfer orders or enable passengers destinations
10:15<sugarman>dose that reqiure vehicle?
10:15<sugarman>or take from town without?
10:15<sugarman>Wolf01: Wolf01
10:16<sugarman>i think i misunderstande
10:16<sugarman>do u must put bus up 2 the dock or must not need? can dock take town people no bus?
10:17<sugarman>argh game is 2 hard!!!!!!!
10:18<_dp_>coop players are sure different nowadays...
10:20<sugarman>plz i am newe gamer i play game not good
10:20<sugarman>D:<<<<<<<<<<<<<
10:20<sugarman>no hate must only love
10:21<@peter1138>When you find a performance problem, spend time fixing it, and then refactor something else which makes that all irrelevant...
10:22<FLHerne>sugarman: Your question is hard to understand
10:22<sugarman>FLHerne: sir
10:22<sugarman>when you get
10:22<sugarman>boat dock
10:22<sugarman>yes??
10:22<sugarman>when u get boat dock, how get people in dock?
10:22<sugarman>u need road with bus?
10:22<FLHerne>sugarman: A dock can receive passengers from a town without any other transfers, if it's near enough houses
10:22<FLHerne>You don't need a road
10:22<sugarman>does road help people get?
10:22<sugarman>or no need no whatsoever
10:22<sugarman>?
10:23<sugarman>and what if i want person to be
10:23<sugarman>moved from 1 town to another town, den i put them on a boat
10:24<FLHerne>sugarman: https://www.flherne.uk/files/ottd_catchment_dock1.png
10:24<FLHerne>sugarman: Notice that "Coverage area highlight" is "On", so some tiles have a blue outline
10:25<FLHerne>Those are the ones that the dock will collect people from
10:25<sugarman>HOW DO I RESOURCE
10:25<sugarman>then
10:25<sugarman>how put oil in a boat?
10:26<sugarman>if oil in middle of big land
10:26<FLHerne>If enough houses are in the area, it'll show "Supplies: Passengers, ..."
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10:26<sugarman>wut about oil FLHerne
10:26<sugarman>oil is not passenger
10:26<sugarman>lolololol
10:27<FLHerne>Either build a canal, or use a truck or train and then transfer orders
10:27<FLHerne>https://wiki.openttd.org/en/Manual/Feeder%20service#how-to-set-up-a-transfer-route
10:27<FLHerne>Most things in OpenTTD work similarly for any cargo
10:28<sugarman>WOWZERS
10:28<sugarman>THANKS UR SO GOOD AT OPENTTD
10:28<sugarman>FLHerne: wanna play openttd war even though id lose??
10:29<FLHerne>Not right now, sorry
10:29<sugarman>its okay you cant be good at everything
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10:31<FLHerne>well ok
10:39<LordAro>"LIBLZMA not found; compiling OpenTTD without LIBLZMA is strongly disencouraged"
10:39<LordAro>disencouraged
10:41<FLHerne>We have the best words
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10:46<TrueBrain>Disencode :D
10:49<FLHerne>Of course, 'disenfranchise' is the correct word
10:49<FLHerne>And 'disengage'
10:49<FLHerne>English is a silly language
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10:51<TrueBrain>Yes it is
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11:06<@peter1138>Disemcombobulation
11:07<Wolf01>Rise to ruins? ^
11:10<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #8716: Fix #8713: Change OTTD2FS and FS2OTTD to return string objects https://git.io/Jt9Ha
11:18<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #8716: Fix #8713: Change OTTD2FS and FS2OTTD to return string objects https://git.io/Jt9Ha
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12:10<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #8716: Fix #8713: Change OTTD2FS and FS2OTTD to return string objects https://git.io/Jt77E
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12:13<frosch123>if you close 1.5 eyes, then "DBaaS" looks very similar to "BaNaNaS"
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12:20<supermop_Home>bananasaas
12:20<frosch123>TrueBrain: yes, if you can fix translations with a regex, it's the right thing to do
12:21<TrueBrain>Tnx frosch123
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12:33<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #8730: Codechange: [OpenGL] Load all OpenGL functions dynamically. https://git.io/Jt7Fk
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12:43<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on issue #8686: Unable to change townnames in Scenario editor after pr8566 https://git.io/JtMyZ
12:46<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #8730: Codechange: [OpenGL] Load all OpenGL functions dynamically. https://git.io/Jt7bZ
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12:50<frosch123>michi_cc: your PR works on my machine :)
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13:03<milek7_>shouldn't things in video/cocoa/CMakeLists.txt be guarded with if(NOT OPTION_DEDICATED) like the ones in video/CMakeLists?
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13:05<frosch123>now that the CI dockers are defined inside GH actions, you can probably add a CI target for dedicated servers in a container with minimal dependencies
13:05<frosch123>though, probably a waste of cpu time
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13:16<frosch123>i like how i swapped # and ##, and nielsm then did the same
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13:22<LordAro>milek7_: i imagine no one's tried to make a dedicated server on macos before
13:23<nielsm>frosch123 I just went by your :D
13:23<nielsm>since I don't remember either
13:23<+glx>I guess all the subdirectory can be skipped
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13:27<LordAro>glx: it still needs the null video driver, right?
13:28<+glx>I mean the add_subdirectory(cocoa)
13:28<LordAro>oh, yes
13:28<frosch123>"dedicated" is a separate video driver
13:29<+glx>OPTION_DEDICATED is for dedicated only builds
13:29<arikover>Hi!
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13:31<frosch123>"null" runs ff-only
13:31<frosch123>pff, 3 minute lag spike
13:33<@peter1138>Disemcombobulati//@//on1141414411111141141414
13:33<LordAro>are you ok
13:34<arikover>I am playing with 20210223-master-gcc465efa67, and I just noticed that when restarting a game (command "restart"), the map has everything except industries. Is that intended or is this a bug?
13:35<@peter1138>25010223
13:37<LordAro>arikover: that seems like a bug
13:38<LordAro>arikover: actually, maybe not
13:38<LordAro>what did you start the game from?
13:39<arikover>I started a fresh game. Not from a savegame, if that's what you mean.
13:39<LordAro>as in, new game -> play a bit -> restart command ?
13:40<frosch123>arikover: "restart" uses the current game settings. if you changed "industry density" to "funding only" in game, then it's expected
13:40<LordAro>`help restart` & `help reload` might explain it
13:43<arikover>Oh I guess I know what is happening. I start with low industries, but also use a GS (Think globally act locally), and this might be changing the industry setting at the start of the game. Is that possible?
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13:59<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master https://git.io/Jt5ea
13:59<@DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
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14:08<sugarman>hey sirs can some1 give me download 2 newist build of openttd with gfx tar insid? preferably by mega.nz
14:08<sugarman>openttd.org blocked 4me by org :(
14:09<LordAro>openttd.org is blocked one of the bigger filesharing sites on the internet is not?
14:09<sugarman>yeah 4some reason
14:09<sugarman>cuz is game, openttd
14:09<arikover>frosch123 LordAro: The GS changes the industry density during the game to funding only. So that's it. Thank you for the help!
14:09<sugarman>LordAro:
14:09<LordAro>arikover: nice
14:10<sugarman>if u be so kind sir ill make much gratitudinal LordAro
14:10<LordAro>sugarman: i'm feeling generous, win64?
14:10<sugarman>yesssirrr
14:10<sugarman>thank u uuuuu
14:10<sugarman>with gfx tar plox
14:11<sugarman>im stuck on archive.org version i culd find and it version mismatch :(((
14:11<sugarman>and preferably portable version but is no problm if installer prob LordAro
14:11<sugarman><3333
14:12<TrueBrain>Don't forget to add the coin miner
14:12<sugarman>lolol
14:12<sugarman>also plox keine RAT :)
14:12<LordAro>sugarman: https://www.lordaro.co.uk/~lordaro/sugarman/
14:13<sugarman>so cool thank u sir
14:13<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on issue #8731: OpenGL font rendering https://git.io/JtQyz
14:13<+michi_cc>TrueBrain: Re #8731, it's not loading 40bpp-anim because a) it would only be loaded after the video driver is loaded (which is not in the debug output snippet), and because b) it is in fact loading 8bpp-optimized, as that is faster.
14:13<LordAro>i figured you'd probably want the portable version :p
14:13<LordAro>if your internet connection is locked down that much, you probably can't install things easily either ;)
14:14<sugarman>thank u very much sir ur veri kind
14:15<TrueBrain>michi_cc: ah, yes, right :)
14:16<+michi_cc>So, force a 32bpp with antialias enabled only for OpenGL or always?
14:16<TrueBrain>Most OSes already defaulted to a 32bpp blitter
14:16<TrueBrain>As I found out during testing
14:16<TrueBrain>So doing for OpenGL makes total sense to me
14:17<LordAro>isn't it all?
14:17<+michi_cc>Yeah, I explicitly changed that as, OpenGL not, only pushing a fifth of the data is always faster.
14:17<+michi_cc>+or
14:18<TrueBrain>I think we should start looking in deprecating 8bpp blitters in general :) .. more options towards the future with 32bpp :p
14:19<sugarman>can u chat in multi player ?
14:20<nielsm>yes, you just press Enter to open the chat box
14:20<sugarman>nice thanks nielsm ur very cool :)
14:21<Eddi|zuHause>is there magic command line option to turn off opengl?
14:22<Eddi|zuHause>also, the problem with LTO is that it's essentially like a full recompile even though you changed only 1 compile unit
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14:22<LordAro>sudo apt-get remove nvidia-driver
14:22*Eddi|zuHause slaps LordAro around a bit with a large trout
14:23<LordAro>:D
14:23<FLHerne>Timberwolf: Is this offset expected? https://www.flherne.uk/files/timberwolf_carriage_offset.png
14:23<FLHerne>Some of the corner angles look much more aligned than others
14:24<FLHerne>(this is 'Passenger Carriage' in 1.3.5)
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14:26<Eddi|zuHause>michi_cc: i see no real difference between commenting and uncommenting the define
14:28<+michi_cc>Okay, in that case I think I'll leave the code as is. Better being safe, especially if it isn't doing much.
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14:28<Eddi|zuHause>well, i haven't done too much testing... loading a large savegame, zooming out, and scrolling around a bit while paused
14:29<Eddi|zuHause>fps drops from 30 to around 18 in both cases
14:29<Eddi|zuHause>in the commented case it seemed rather constant, in the uncommented case a bit more jumpy, but seemed to average out
14:30<Eddi|zuHause>also, i'm starting to get annoyed that the game doesn't start on display 0
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14:32<TrueBrain>have your mouse on display 0 when starting :)
14:32<TrueBrain>and you can start without OpenGL by using "-v sdl" :)
14:32<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler opened issue #8734: Vehicles not rendered in 2CC when dragged inside a depot https://git.io/Jt5JC
14:33<Wolf01>Hmmm, I think I passed out for a hour or 2
14:33<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: i know that. but no other game does it like that, and that's the annoying part
14:33<TrueBrain>shrug
14:34<frosch123>you can also pass the display via command line
14:34<andythenorth>Wolf01 you alive?
14:34<Wolf01>Not really
14:34<TrueBrain>Wolf01: should we be worried, call 112, or?
14:34<Wolf01>Nah
14:34<TrueBrain>would be fun "giving your address" :D
14:34<andythenorth>I had a (probably not Covid, probably another mystery virus with all the same symptoms) Jan 2019
14:34<Eddi|zuHause>ok, so in the non-opengl case, fps is more like 12
14:34<andythenorth>then I spent a lot of 2019 randomly falling asleep
14:35<Wolf01>Mononucleosis
14:35<andythenorth>don't only Americans get mono?
14:35<andythenorth>it's a thing in US sitcoms, but I know nobody in Europe who has ever mentioned it
14:36<andythenorth>oh we call it something else
14:36<TrueBrain>andythenorth: that is either local bias, or just not wanting to hear :P
14:36<TrueBrain>but many people get it really young here, which is a good thing
14:37<andythenorth>oh we call it glandular fever
14:37<andythenorth>names
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14:38<TrueBrain>"Ziekte van Pfeiffer" it is called here
14:39<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler opened issue #8735: Transparency of houses, etc., rendered too dark https://git.io/Jt5Jp
14:39<LordAro>mm, 31s fresh compile time
14:39<LordAro>40 cores is quite nice
14:39<TrueBrain>Debug build, I assume :P
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14:39<andythenorth>40 cores :P
14:39<LordAro>and yes, also debug build
14:39<Wolf01>Woop, windows crashed with netflix
14:39<andythenorth>outrage
14:41<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #8732: Change: Improve graph period markings https://git.io/Jt5Uq
14:41<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #8735: Transparency of houses, etc., rendered too dark https://git.io/Jt5Jp
14:41<TrueBrain>how does he do that ...
14:42<LordAro>both issues are presumably opengl?
14:42<Wolf01><andythenorth> don't only Americans get mono? <- I've got mono, but the development SDK, maybe they get the runtime :P
14:42<andythenorth>lol
14:43<TrueBrain>does OpenTTD has something you can click that puts something in your clipboard or something about what OpenTTD you are running, with all the settings etc?
14:43<TrueBrain>so debugging what is being used exactly is easier?
14:43<LordAro>TrueBrain: 2:20 for release build :(
14:43<TrueBrain>LordAro: yeah ... I stopped trying Release builds because of that
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14:43<TrueBrain>I just gave up
14:43<TrueBrain>happy Debug builds now run at 9999 fps simulation for me
14:44<_2TallTyler>I'm here if I can answer any of those questions for your TrueBrain
14:44<TrueBrain>_2TallTyler: nah, in your case I am pretty sure they are caused by OpenGL :)
14:44<TrueBrain>but I notice often we have to ask basic information of users
14:44<TrueBrain>most which they wouldn't know how to answer
14:44<_2TallTyler>I figured as much. I certainly don't know if I'm running OpenGL...just whatever it launched with automatically
14:45<TrueBrain>the current reports just show how bad of a tester I am :D
14:46<+michi_cc>I'd tend for it to be a bug in the 40bpp-anim blitter, not the OpenGL driver, as transparency is handled by the blitter.
14:47<FLHerne>Why is there a 40bpp blitter?
14:47<FLHerne>(macOS does high colour depth natively now?)
14:48<+michi_cc>Because letting the GPU do OTTD palette animation/CC overlay is better than letting your CPU do it.
14:48<+michi_cc>RGBAM
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14:48<andythenorth>oof I need to get the build working eh :P
14:49<FLHerne>M?
14:50<FLHerne>I assumed it was RGBA with 10 bits per channel, like Photoshop etc.
14:51<FLHerne>Google says RGBAM is + 'Mint', but only for very niche lighting things
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14:55<+michi_cc>M == mask in GRF speak.
14:56<FLHerne>ah
14:59<TrueBrain>LordAro: gave certbot any more attention?
15:00<LordAro>oh sorry, no
15:00<LordAro>completely forgot about it
15:00<TrueBrain>me too
15:00<TrueBrain>letsencrypt reminded me :D
15:00<TrueBrain>michi_cc: as a FYI, the above 2 tickets also happen with the 8bpp-optimized blitter
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15:02<+michi_cc>That almost rules out OpenGL, as the 8bpp case is really only applying our palette and nothing more. Maybe one of the video driver refactorings broke something with palette animation.
15:02<TrueBrain>the drag&drop is OpenGL only
15:02<TrueBrain>the transparency happens also on win32
15:03<LordAro>bisect time!
15:03<TrueBrain>transparency only happens in 8bpp, so yeah, I will bisect what causes that
15:04<TrueBrain>drag&drop also happens with 40bpp-anim
15:04<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8734: Vehicles not rendered in 2CC when dragged inside a depot https://git.io/Jt5JC
15:05<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8735: Transparency of houses, etc., rendered too dark https://git.io/Jt5Jp
15:05<TrueBrain>right, lets see what broke transparency .. finding a known-good commit first :P
15:06<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc opened pull request #8736: Fix #8731: Always use a 32bpp blitter if font anti-aliasing is enabled. https://git.io/Jt5kG
15:06<sugarman>are signals important 4 makin trainz
15:07<sugarman>or can u ignore em
15:07<sugarman>they seem dumb
15:09<TrueBrain>Bisecting: 41 revisions left to test after this (roughly 5 steps)
15:09<TrueBrain>I love git
15:09<LordAro>sugarman: depends how complicated you want to make things
15:10<sugarman>if i make a big ring of tracks aroun a buncha townz
15:10<sugarman>n put a buncha trains on it
15:10<sugarman>is that cool?
15:10<LordAro>try it and see ;)
15:10<sugarman>yeah i will
15:10<LordAro>https://wiki.openttd.org/en/Manual/ you might wanna have a read of this though
15:11<LordAro>TrueBrain: why on earth did you decide on red(ish) for links on the wiki?
15:11<TrueBrain>that is orange darling
15:11<TrueBrain>like all openttd.org links are
15:11<TrueBrain>for like .. 15 years now :)
15:11<LordAro>yeah... but it's the wiki
15:11<LordAro>every wiki ever uses red links for "page does not exist"
15:11<TrueBrain>that is why it is not red
15:12<TrueBrain>but orange
15:12<TrueBrain>I just took the website CSS :)
15:12<LordAro>oh, well then
15:12<LordAro>no problems at all.
15:12<TrueBrain>you ask me why
15:12<TrueBrain>:)
15:12<TrueBrain>deadlinks are grey btw
15:12<LordAro>also, it is #DD6000, orange is rather lighter :p
15:13<TrueBrain>pretty sure with that much green you cannot consider it red either
15:13<TrueBrain>it left red like 0x003000 ago :P
15:13<LordAro>"mediumblue" is much better, imo
15:14<TrueBrain>pretty sure if we ask 10 people we get 10 different answers :D
15:14<TrueBrain>but the why is simple, I just copied the website CSS :)
15:15<TrueBrain>don't you hate that you are bisecting on a 32bpp blitter, where you wanted to test a 8bpp?
15:15<LordAro>oops
15:15<TrueBrain>LordAro: I kinda gave up debating "what colour should this link be" for openttd.org like 10 years ago
15:16<TrueBrain>for years people have been saying they will fix our CSS
15:16<TrueBrain>I think you put the most effort in it
15:16<TrueBrain>gives you a bit of an idea :P
15:16<andythenorth>it's fine
15:16<andythenorth>it works
15:17<+glx>hey some did fix parts of the CSS
15:17<andythenorth>nothing wrong with it
15:17<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #8736: Fix #8731: Always use a 32bpp blitter if font anti-aliasing is enabled. https://git.io/Jt5If
15:17<TrueBrain>andythenorth: clearly that is a matter of opinion
15:19<andythenorth>mine is more valid of course
15:19<andythenorth>just not everyone recognises that yet
15:21<TrueBrain>now I come to think of it, the transparency .. is that not just 32bpp vs 8bpp
15:21<TrueBrain>lets compile 1.10.3 and check ..
15:23<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8735: Transparency of houses, etc., rendered too dark https://git.io/Jt5Jp
15:23<TrueBrain>michi_cc: with ^^, I kinda vote on making 32bpp the default for OpenGL on all platforms too
15:23<nielsm>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/discussions/8737 fixing town names
15:24<TrueBrain>michi_cc: I think there will be more of those regressions for a lot of players, as they were used to how 32bpp does it
15:24<TrueBrain>8bpp is just .. subpar :P
15:31<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8670: Crash on macOS Big Sur after downloading graphics to 200% https://git.io/JtiPZ
15:34<TrueBrain>frosch123: https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/8619 <- you did this right?
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15:41<frosch123>oh, i thought that was already closed
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15:41<TrueBrain>:D You can have the pleasure of closing an issue :D
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15:42<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on issue #8619: Unused sounds https://git.io/Jt4Mc
15:42<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 closed issue #8619: Unused sounds https://git.io/Jt4Mc
15:42<frosch123>i had to look up the pr
15:42<TrueBrain>it was already 3 days ago
15:42<TrueBrain>I mean
15:42<frosch123>it was the osfx issue that was closed
15:43<TrueBrain>E_TOO_MANY_TICKETS :D
15:46<TrueBrain>I like how our NewGRF Settings window shows "Palette"
15:46<TrueBrain>as that is the important piece of information to show our users :D
15:46<frosch123>it's toggleable
15:46<frosch123>it's important for newgrf older than 10 years
15:47<TrueBrain>as user, I have no clue what it means or what I have to do with the info, honestly :)
15:47<frosch123>like that vehicle grf that is almost as old as ottd, but people still talk abuot it
15:47<TrueBrain>I use to have 2 GRFs, that gave me a game with trams
15:47<frosch123>TrueBrain: rename the button to "if things look pink, click here"
15:47<TrueBrain>I now have 100 GRFs .. and I hav eno clue which gives me trams :D
15:47<TrueBrain>frosch123: no, not a button or anything .. "Detailed NewGRF information" show that piece of info
15:47<frosch123>use the text fitler for "tram"
15:48<TrueBrain>frosch123: tnx, that worked surprisingly well
15:48<+glx>haha only 100 GRFs, the scan should be fast for you
15:48<frosch123>TrueBrain: at the bottom there is a "toggle palette" button
15:48<frosch123>it toggles the thing in the details
15:49<TrueBrain>button is disabled :P
15:49<frosch123>yes, in-game with no dev-settings
15:49<TrueBrain>I am at the intro menu
15:49<+glx>opengfx uses windows palette only IIRC
15:49<TrueBrain>with a clean config
15:49<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] orudge commented on pull request #8718: Change: [Actions] stop relying on external actions for trivial stuff, and rely on cmake tools to build, test and pack https://git.io/Jt5tW
15:49<frosch123>we even allow toggling the palette when the newgrf sets it properly
15:50<frosch123>oh, maybe that is a dev-setting then
15:50<TrueBrain>so maybe we shouldn't show it for non-dev or something, dunno :)
15:50<TrueBrain>anyway, it just made me giggle, like: what do I have to do with this piece of intel :D
15:50<frosch123>ah, indeed
15:51<frosch123>newgrf-dev-tool allows you to toggle the palette unconditionally
15:51<frosch123>without them, you can only toggle them for old newgrf without palette information
15:51<frosch123>TrueBrain: what do you to with grfid and md5sum?
15:51<TrueBrain>frosch123: I was wondering the same, honestly
15:51<TrueBrain>but I could imagine the case where someone asks you for that, or what-ever
15:51<TrueBrain>but it is really thin too
15:51<TrueBrain>same with Parameters
15:52<TrueBrain>I get these bytes .. like .. euh .. okay, tnx?
15:52<frosch123>imo, there is the space, so show something
15:52<frosch123>i think md5sum is more useful than the "tags" on bananas
15:52<frosch123>sometimes you need the md5sum. the tags are always useless :p
15:52<TrueBrain>"View Details" button to show these things would work well too, I guess :
15:53<TrueBrain>but okay, that NewGRF interface is not for the faint of heart anyway :)
15:53<frosch123>and then? when i open the newgrf window, i have a lot of empty space on the right
15:53<FLHerne>frosch123: Could the palette be determined by heuristics?
15:53<TrueBrain>so the reason to add information most users don't know what to do with is because otherwise it is too empty? :D
15:53<FLHerne>"Everything is pink, we should use the other one" seems like something the game can know on its own :p
15:54<frosch123>FLHerne: not worth the effort
15:54<frosch123>every newgrf since 2012 sets it
15:54<frosch123>those people who use newgrf older than that, also know what palette means
15:54<andythenorth>what are 'parameters'
15:54<andythenorth>as we're playing this meta game :)
15:54<TrueBrain>I already asked!
15:54<TrueBrain>:P
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15:55<andythenorth>watwat?
15:55<andythenorth>I should stop playing Blitz
15:55<andythenorth>it just funds Putin anyway
15:55<frosch123>maybe ottd should ask "in what year did you play ottd first?" on start-up?
15:55<andythenorth>lol
15:55-!-jottyfan [~Thunderbi@x4dbffe6e.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: jottyfan]
15:55<andythenorth>'are you l33t?'
15:55<frosch123>then use that to disable/enable old silly features
15:55<TrueBrain>frosch123: well, it is funny to walk through the interface after having for years :)
15:55<andythenorth>or move 'toggle palette' to parameters
15:55<TrueBrain>haven't
15:55<TrueBrain>typing, hard
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15:56<andythenorth>rename parameters to settings
15:56<andythenorth>rename grfs to mods
15:56<TrueBrain>sometimes the audience indeed seems to be another group than me :)
15:56<andythenorth>you are not a group :)
15:56<TrueBrain>than I am in
15:56<TrueBrain>fine
15:56<TrueBrain>have it your way :P
15:56<andythenorth>oh dear andythenorth
15:56<TrueBrain>want more salt with that?
15:57<Timberwolf>frosch123: copy protection style quiz! List a feature and multiple choice answers of "this feature was first introduced by [ ] TTO [ ] TTD [ ] TTDPatch [ ] OpenTTD"
15:57<andythenorth>salty salty tears
15:57<andythenorth>oh wait, wrong game
15:57<andythenorth>this isn't Blitz
15:57<TrueBrain>or make a configuration setting: "I am old, give me back all my information nobody ever looked at" :P :P :P
15:57<TrueBrain>would work for the mapgen too!
15:57<andythenorth>can we rename another button pls?
15:58<andythenorth>View unreadableme
15:58<andythenorth>View badfontme
15:58<frosch123>TrueBrain: anyway, you can tie tha "show palette info" to the "enable palette toggle button"
15:58<frosch123>there is no point in showing it, if you can't toggle it
15:58<frosch123>you can probably also tie md5sum to some developer setting
15:58<TrueBrain>honestly, that confused me most, the distance between that text and the button
15:58<TrueBrain>I did not link those together :D
15:58<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #8718: Change: [Actions] stop relying on external actions for trivial stuff, and rely on cmake tools to build, test and pack https://git.io/Jt5qI
15:59<TrueBrain>now you mentioned the button
15:59<TrueBrain>it makes more sense :)
15:59<frosch123>it's a classical gui :) display at the top, radio buttons at the bottom
15:59<TrueBrain>yeah .. it fits the style of the game :)
15:59<frosch123>a lot of ancient software follows the same pattern as ancient hardware
15:59<TrueBrain>but okay, just random observation while trying to load a tram NewGRF :)
16:00<TrueBrain>now lets look at the lovely bug: the tram is in front of the depot, going towards the depot .. yet, pressing the button: goto depot, says: unable to find depot :D
16:01<frosch123>that only applies to trams? not to other road vehicles?
16:01<TrueBrain>indeed
16:02<andythenorth>wat?
16:02<andythenorth>isn't this just pathfinder caching though?
16:02<TrueBrain>its a fun little bug :D
16:03<frosch123>sometimes the pathfinder starts searching on the next tile, maybe it has issues if the next tile is already the depot
16:03<TrueBrain>no, it has to do with half-tiles
16:03<TrueBrain>where it can turn around
16:03<TrueBrain>it seems the PF doesn't understand those
16:03<TrueBrain>while on that half-tile, it cannot find the depot
16:03<TrueBrain>when it leaves, it can
16:04<TrueBrain>busses etc never enter the half-tile
16:04<TrueBrain>it turns around before the half-tile happens
16:04<TrueBrain>I guess that is related
16:04<+glx>maybe exit direction is not properly detected for these
16:05<TrueBrain>the fun part: having to open follow_track.hpp :D
16:05<+glx>have fun :)
16:06<TrueBrain>if you don't hear from me in the next 2 days, call help
16:06<+glx>I think I opened it not too long ago for buses
16:08<+michi_cc>Okay, there's a very easy solution for #8734 and a quite hard one.
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16:10<andythenorth>is naptime yet?
16:10<+glx>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/commit/86818e5ae8a170951d00eb0060767c9d1687540c <-- ah yes, luckily it was solvable from outside, but I had to trace inside PF
16:11<+michi_cc>TrueBrain: You prefer to basically always use 32bpp I guess?
16:11<TrueBrain>michi_cc: I think it avoids a lot of annoyance by users, yes
16:11<TrueBrain>I do like your PR btw, so maybe "both" is the correct answer :)
16:12<TrueBrain>but really, if you are used to 32bpp transparency, you won't get used to 8bpp transparency anymore :P
16:14<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler commented on issue #8735: Transparency of houses, etc., rendered too dark https://git.io/Jt5Jp
16:14<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler closed issue #8735: Transparency of houses, etc., rendered too dark https://git.io/Jt5Jp
16:14<+michi_cc>Okay, lets merge #8736 then. Removing the prefer 8bpp altogether can be another commit.
16:15<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc merged pull request #8736: Fix #8731: Always use a 32bpp blitter if font anti-aliasing is enabled. https://git.io/Jt5kG
16:15<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc closed issue #8731: OpenGL font rendering https://git.io/JtQyz
16:15<TrueBrain>michi_cc: exactly :)
16:15<TrueBrain>okay, GetTileTrackStatus() returns 0 on half-tiles
16:16<TrueBrain>and there is a "hack" there, which makes the PF think the tile is a full tile straight
16:17<TrueBrain>so that explains why the PF is like: DUDE WTF :D
16:17<+michi_cc>TrueBrain: Okay, so for #8734, I completely missed that the mouse cursor can have a company colour remap applied. Easy fix: just remove separate cursor drawing. It was mostly intended to allow fast mouse updates than the game loop, but you've made that obsolete :)
16:17<+michi_cc>The hard fix is to improve the GL shader code to cater for all the remaps.
16:18<+glx>oh but the hack was for buses I guess
16:18<TrueBrain>glx: no, the hack is for trams specific; and it is in the PF btw, not in GetTileTrackStatus, to be clear :D
16:18<TrueBrain>michi_cc: hmmmmm
16:18<TrueBrain>what I like about the OpenGL mouse handling
16:18<TrueBrain>that it doesn't snapshot the buffer for bytes
16:18<TrueBrain>end copy them back to "undraw"
16:19<+glx>ah then the hack feels wrong has half tile exit should be entrance in this case
16:19<+glx>s/has/as/
16:20<_2TallTyler>Question about strings: When game_creation.ending_year is set to 0, the setting reads "Never". I see the string in english.txt, but can't find where that string is specified when the setting is 0. Any ideas?
16:20<TrueBrain>michi_cc: how "hard" is the hard fix?
16:20<+michi_cc>However hard it is to do Blitter_32bppOptimized::Draw as shader :)
16:20<+glx>searched for the string id _2TallTyler ?
16:20<andythenorth>can we have drive through stations from jgrpp? /me wonders
16:22<TrueBrain>michi_cc: :D Well, I think you can best estimate what solution is better .. having the mouse done by OpenGL is just better than the software solution OpenTTD uses, I think, but having to write complex shaders can break easily .. so yeah, nice problem to balance :D
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16:23<frosch123>michi_cc: the mouse cursor is also broken when if consists of multiple sprites
16:23<frosch123>do you need a screenshot, or do you know what i mean?
16:23<+glx>_2TallTyler: SettingEntry::SetValueDParams() I guess
16:24<_2TallTyler>Aha, figured it out. Thanks.
16:24<+michi_cc>frosch123: That is supposed to work as it is iterating over _cursor.sprite_count
16:24<frosch123>hmm, i think it draws both sprites, but the x-offset is off, they are overlapping
16:25<frosch123>oh, the mouse-cursor clipping does not account for gui zoom
16:26<+michi_cc>Do you have some example cursor what is multi-part?
16:27<frosch123>articulated vehicles
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16:27<frosch123>all the big engines in nuts
16:30<frosch123>maybe it misses the sprite-offsets for the secondary sprites
16:36<TrueBrain>I STRANDED A TRAM \o/
16:37<TrueBrain>it derailed and got stuck
16:37<TrueBrain>nice
16:37<_2TallTyler>Easy, just pull the pole off the wire ;)
16:38<TrueBrain>so yeah, we don't have trackbits for halftiles
16:38<TrueBrain>they are a bit centered around rails :D
16:38<+glx>how surprising
16:38<frosch123>no, trains and ships have the same issue
16:39<frosch123>depots, tunnels, bridges
16:39<frosch123>all of them are enterable from one side only, and do not traverse
16:39<frosch123>they are all special-cased in the pathfinder
16:39<TrueBrain>but rails don't have half-tiles, do they?
16:39<TrueBrain>sorry, I am a bit confused :D
16:39<frosch123>depot are the same thing
16:39<TrueBrain>rails in depot, yeah, fair
16:39<frosch123>you can enter from one side, but only exit on the same one
16:40<frosch123>same for tunnels and bridges
16:40<TrueBrain>roads and trams just have it in many more places
16:40<TrueBrain>and for trams a single case is patched
16:40<TrueBrain>so that annoyed someone enough :D
16:41<frosch123>try grepping for depot in the pathfinder code :p then add the tram-special case in the same places
16:41<frosch123>actually, this sounds vaguely familar. i think i did that 12 years ago
16:41<TrueBrain>I really wonder if we shouldn't just add trackbits, but that might be a bit more work :D
16:41<frosch123>that does not solve anything
16:42<frosch123>then the pathfinder thinks it can enter from the other side
16:42<TrueBrain>huh?
16:42<TrueBrain>if we add half-trackbits
16:42<TrueBrain>how would it?
16:42<frosch123>gettiletrackstatus also already has a "enterdir" parameters
16:42<frosch123>i think bridges/tunnels/depots depend on that
16:43<frosch123>so, if anything, make trams more similar to depot/tunnel/bridges, they work well
16:43<TrueBrain>rvs have a similar issue
16:43<TrueBrain>so it is a lot of "exception" code
16:43<frosch123>rvs just ignore those single-bit tiles, they pretend they don't exist :p
16:43<+glx>so any half-road (tram or not) should be handled like a depot
16:43<TrueBrain>yeah, which is a bug on its own
16:44<TrueBrain>but for now, I am trying to understand what this hack for trams is suppose to do
16:44<frosch123>you can bulldoze single roadbits of competitors, but not single trambits
16:44<+glx>but RVs can't turn around on half tile, they would move on grass ;)
16:44<TrueBrain>if there is a half-tile, it acts like it is a full tile over either axis
16:45<TrueBrain>which feels like it tried to address this bug, but kinda failed or something
16:45<TrueBrain>glx: why wouldn't they be able to turn around earlier? :)
16:45<+glx>they actually do
16:46<TrueBrain>ah, wait, another place corrects the tram hack
16:46<TrueBrain>ish
16:46<+glx>hack to fix hack ?
16:46<TrueBrain>it is a two-for-one-hack
16:47<TrueBrain>single-bit trams act like they are x-axis or y-axis, but you cannot exit on the other side
16:47<TrueBrain>so .. half-tiles :D
16:48<TrueBrain>Some comments: /* sometimes the roadveh is not on the road (it resides on non-existing track) how should we handle that situation? */
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16:59<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #8738: Fix #8123: trams on half-tiles couldn't find depots https://git.io/Jt5Yr
16:59<TrueBrain>well, instead of fighting the system, I just extended the already "fix halftile issue"
17:00<TrueBrain>not sure what to think of it, honestly
17:01<LordAro>TrueBrain: have you tried pointing 2 half-tiles at each other?
17:02<TrueBrain>nope, let me try
17:03<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 opened pull request #8739: Fix: vehicle-cursor size-limit did not account for the interface zoom level. https://git.io/Jt5Y1
17:03<TrueBrain>works as expected
17:03<TrueBrain>good test-case LordAro :D
17:03<LordAro>:)
17:04<LordAro>how about if there's a more favourable depot on the other side?
17:04<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #8739: Fix: vehicle-cursor size-limit did not account for the interface zoom level. https://git.io/Jt5YM
17:04<TrueBrain>LordAro: exactly what I tried :D
17:04<LordAro>ah good :)
17:04<TrueBrain>the PF does that well :D
17:05<TrueBrain>it is just sad that this is needed to fix it ..
17:05<TrueBrain>but by the looks, fixing it properly takes ... more effort
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17:05<frosch123>TrueBrain: is it possible to deduplicate that code with QueryNewTileTrackStatus ? or is that impossible?
17:05<TrueBrain>hmm .. good question
17:06<TrueBrain>the C++ magic in follow_track is high
17:06<LordAro>follow_track is one of the more readable parts of the PF, imo
17:06<TrueBrain>the code inside, yes
17:06<LordAro>it's all the yapf stuff that is weird
17:06<TrueBrain>how it is constructed .. euh ..
17:06<TrueBrain>many template parameters
17:06<TrueBrain>and helpers functions that read them
17:07<TrueBrain>TT, IsRoadTT, etc
17:07<LordAro>like the costrail.hpp(?) has a base class which isn't used anywhere else
17:07<LordAro>true, but they're well enough named
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17:07<TrueBrain>yeah, just my C++ knowledge lacks here greatly :)
17:07<LordAro>you're not just calling proc() and hoping for the best :p
17:08<TrueBrain>so I think it could be deduplicated, I just don't know how :D
17:08<TrueBrain>I would have to create an instance of CFollowTrackT I think
17:08<TrueBrain>ah, no, wait
17:09<TrueBrain>if you follow that template, boy ...
17:09<TrueBrain>so many redirects to other names
17:09<frosch123>maybe pull out a c-style function that does the shared part, and call that one from both
17:09<TrueBrain>I do wonder what that if does in general, in that depot function
17:10<TrueBrain>like .. it only fails if the tram is not on any tram tracks
17:10<TrueBrain>is that .. realistic?
17:10<TrueBrain>so I could also just remove that check
17:11<frosch123>TrueBrain: i think that "sometimes the roadveh is not on the road" refers to the animation states when a rv is reversing
17:11<TrueBrain>no, the function, YapfRoadVehicleFindNearestDepot
17:12<frosch123>road-vehicle/tram reversing and their frame is really weird
17:12<TrueBrain>first checks if the RV is on any track
17:12<TrueBrain>before it does the pathfinding
17:12<frosch123>disable_node_optimization ?
17:13<TrueBrain>looking through the history
17:13<TrueBrain>added to check if the road below is compatible with vehicle
17:13<TrueBrain>otherwise refuse to do depot-pathfinding
17:13<frosch123>TrueBrain: that test it the same as in SetOriginFromVehiclePos
17:13<frosch123>pretty sure it refers to rv while reversing
17:14<frosch123>trains reverse instantly, roadvehicles have some weird animation states, that do not refer to trackbits
17:14<frosch123>so: reverse a road vehicle, wait till it is orthogonal to the road direction, then click find depot
17:16<frosch123>RoadVehicle::GetVehicleTrackdir() contains quite some magic
17:16<TrueBrain>works fine
17:16<frosch123>also, standard roadstops
17:16<TrueBrain>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/commit/96e2435aa82
17:16<TrueBrain>was what introduced the if
17:16<frosch123>what trackbits do they have :p
17:17<frosch123>so, what happens when a roadvehicle is loading in a drive-in roadstop, and then you find a depot?
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17:17<TrueBrain>works fine
17:19<TrueBrain>https://pasteboard.co/JPKhRKm.png
17:19<TrueBrain>is what I am using to test
17:19<TrueBrain>but okay, lets not create more bugs by removing something I don't understand .. lets see if I can deduplicate it :)
17:19<frosch123>TrueBrain: https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/commit/078399d3141e12013e5e9ad36f2581908415b029
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17:20<TrueBrain>yeah, for sure that function can return wrong values :)
17:20<TrueBrain>well, "wrong"
17:20<frosch123>that added SetOriginFromVehiclePos, YapfRoadVehicleFindNearestDepot copied it from there
17:20<TrueBrain>can you remove a half-tile while a bus is on the tile ..
17:21<TrueBrain>no :D
17:21<TrueBrain>too bad they didn't leave a comment about when that happens
17:21<TrueBrain>just that it happens
17:22<frosch123>r5033 is about multistop handling
17:23<TrueBrain>but okay, I would love to clean up this code, but I guess fixing the problem is more useful .. so deduplicate, and use in a few more places, I guess? :)
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17:28<frosch123>hmm, no idea who yanek is
17:28<frosch123>dorpsgek logs start in 2007
17:29<frosch123>tt-forums has only unrelated reports on that day
17:29<TrueBrain>flyspray? email?
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17:29<frosch123>https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=24703&start=60 <- i expected it here, but only other stuff
17:30<frosch123>but when something is introduced at 11:00 and fixed at 17:00, i think irc
17:30<frosch123>there was not even a nightly inbetween
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17:36<frosch123>night, need more sleep
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17:37<TrueBrain>now I wonder what happens if I apply the same logic for RVs ..
17:37<Beerbelott>Hello! How do you configure AI script_settings on a headless instance?
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17:43<TrueBrain>possibly via openttd.cfg? Dunno .. you can always prepare a savegame and load that
17:45<TrueBrain>hmm, no, for RVs it is not as simple as duplicating the same tram trick .. guess there is more to it
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17:55<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8738: Fix #8123: trams on half-tiles couldn't find depots https://git.io/Jt5Yr
17:55<TrueBrain>okay, enough fiddling with trying to make RVs turn on half-tiles :P
17:55<TrueBrain>lets keep it at fixing trams :)
17:56<TrueBrain>ugh, I added the issue in the commit message again .... fucking spam in the issue now :P
17:56<Beerbelott>TrueBrain I set start_date for an AI to a specific value, but what AI::GetStartNextTime() returns is different
17:56<TrueBrain>it is always randomized a bit, I believe
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17:56<Beerbelott>I wonder if the value I set is being loaded of if any of the AI::START_NEXT_* are being used
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17:59<TrueBrain>yeah, it is always +/- 60 days from what you entered in start_date
17:59<Beerbelott>Hmmm I don't get where the value is being randomised when it's being read from GetSetting (either in AIConfig or ScriptConfig)
17:59<TrueBrain>well, [0, 60), I believe
17:59<TrueBrain>_start_date_config defines how the config behaves
17:59<Beerbelott>So I trust it's randomised on load from config files?
17:59<TrueBrain>which has a value int random_deviation;
18:00<TrueBrain>which is being added by AddRandomDeviation
18:00<TrueBrain>which is called on any config change
18:00<TrueBrain>so on load is the most likely situation, yes
18:00<TrueBrain>well, load of a game
18:00<TrueBrain>not of config
18:00<TrueBrain>wouldn't be much random if it was not per game :)
18:01<Beerbelott>hehe
18:01<Beerbelott>OK thx for all this
18:01<TrueBrain>np
18:01<Beerbelott>thought I was crazy
18:02<Beerbelott>Also, AI load doesnot work if you set it on the 1st line of the [ai_players] config block
18:02<Beerbelott>it *has* to be at least on the 2nd line
18:02<Beerbelott>It's a bit confusing
18:02<TrueBrain>that sounds like a worthy bug report :)
18:02<TrueBrain>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues
18:02<Beerbelott>Oh I know that place (:
18:03<+glx>first line is human :)
18:03<+glx>but for dedicated servers it should work
18:03<TrueBrain>so the entries also indicate which company slot?
18:03<TrueBrain>not exactly what I expected, but I guess that makes sense
18:04<TrueBrain>so not a bug Beerbelott ! :D
18:04<+glx>well it matches the GUI
18:04<Beerbelott>glx I confirm it doesnot work on dedicated server
18:05<Beerbelott>I set on the 1st line, GetStartNextTime() returns 730
18:05<Beerbelott>Which is 2 years fro mthe defaults settings somewhere
18:05<Beerbelott>If*
18:05<TrueBrain>okay, I am going to close pathfinders and RVs ... so many places trams have code to allow them to reverse on half-tiles, I give up :D
18:06<TrueBrain>(not only in the PF, but also in the cmd of trams)
18:06<Beerbelott>I notice when the server runs, I notice there is always one "Server" client: I suppose it takes the 1st spot
18:06<TrueBrain>it should be a spectator
18:06<TrueBrain>there should be no company
18:07<Beerbelott>No, there is none indeed
18:07<Beerbelott>But the AI load is only triggered when the game runs... which occurs on my server only when there is at least one player connected, due to a setting
18:08<TrueBrain>yes, AIs start after a few game days
18:08<TrueBrain>so a paused game never starts an AI :)
18:08<Beerbelott>Hence the AI load seems to only be triggered after the 1st player company is created... SO I suppose that's where the problem comes from? COllision between real players and the AI?
18:08<TrueBrain>if company #1 exists, no AI can start on that company, no
18:08<TrueBrain>humans trump AIs
18:09<Beerbelott>So if I set an AI on sport, say #3, and 3 players exist when the server tries to load the AI: it will never happen?
18:09<Beerbelott>spot*
18:09<TrueBrain>it appears so, yes
18:09<Beerbelott>Oof
18:10<Beerbelott>I thought this list was a dynamic one of AIs, but it actually is a fixed list of players spots
18:10<TrueBrain>company spots, it seems
18:11<TrueBrain>so you can just define all spots with the same AI if you like
18:11<TrueBrain>AIs start 1 after the other, with their delays
18:11<TrueBrain>just you would have more AIs :D
18:11<+glx>may be a bug btw
18:11<TrueBrain>well, the GUI works like that
18:11<TrueBrain>so I guess it is intended
18:11<TrueBrain>might not be very flexible, but ..
18:11<Beerbelott>Well I certainly don't wanna fill aserver with AI up. SOunds even less useful than cryptomining on that box :D
18:11<TrueBrain>btw, Beerbelott , setting start_date to 0 should start it from the moment a new game is created
18:11<TrueBrain>maybe that helps
18:12<LordAro>sounds like something in one of Samu's (closed) PRs
18:12<Beerbelott>Imagine a server full with AI. Do people watch that for fun? :D
18:12<TrueBrain>Beerbelott: there are tournaments, yes :)
18:12<+glx>GUI is also defines max AI and disable extra lines
18:13<TrueBrain>it is not really user friendly, the approach taken, honestly
18:13<TrueBrain>as in, singleplayer was considered
18:13<TrueBrain>not multiplayer
18:13<Beerbelott>glx There indeed is a max_no_competitors setting
18:13<+glx>yeah originaly AIs were SP only
18:13<Beerbelott>So the idea would be to spam the AI in all the spots with that setting?
18:13<TrueBrain>and the GUIs are build around the SP experience
18:13<TrueBrain>and the ini file is a representation of the GUI :D
18:14<+glx>then someone allowed them on the server
18:14<Beerbelott>Sounds awfully like a bypass
18:14<TrueBrain>another approach on a multiplayer server is to use the admin port to start AIs
18:15<Beerbelott>SOunds like a hack too: server confs are believed to be deterministic and self-sufficient
18:15<+glx>well AIs in MP are kind of a hack
18:15<TrueBrain>are we looking for solutions or principles? :D
18:16<Beerbelott>I think I got my hack, but a config solution would be nice (:
18:16<TrueBrain>requires GUI changes too
18:16<TrueBrain>so not an easy task ;)
18:17<+glx>you also have the option to use start script
18:17<TrueBrain>but that is the same as using start_date 0, I guess
18:18<+glx>AI management is not optimal (even in SP)
18:19<TrueBrain>1.12 the big UI overhaul? :D
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18:19<+glx>start_date setting itself is implemented as a hack in the AI config
18:19<TrueBrain>it has more exceptions than I dare to count :)
18:20<TrueBrain>but would be nice to change the whole UI to be more for ... players, instead of developers / NewGRF authors / ... :D
18:20<TrueBrain>remove all the historical bla
18:21<LordAro>needs one of LC's new game guis :)
18:21<LordAro>with tabs
18:21<LordAro>i liked that one
18:21<TrueBrain>link or it didn't happen
18:22<LordAro>you're gonna make me search for it, aren't you?
18:22<TrueBrain>you brought it up :)
18:22<TrueBrain>you can't half-ass that :P
18:24<+glx>there was a suggestion with AI/GS and newgrf GUI "merge"
18:24<LordAro>https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1240204#p1240204 not this one, and not like this at all (this is a noisy mess), but tabs per content type is sorely needed
18:25<TrueBrain>frosch123 went a bit further, and I agree with him: merge it together into presets
18:25<TrueBrain>https://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?mode=view&id=215678 <- I like that more than tabs, personally
18:25<TrueBrain>also works well for settings etc
18:26<TrueBrain>tabs for online content is a bit annoying for when you are searching
18:26<LordAro>the idea is to reduce scrolling
18:26<LordAro>headers don't really help with that
18:26<TrueBrain>hence those kind of tabs, and collapse them by default
18:26<TrueBrain>works nearly the same as tabs :)
18:26<+glx>grouping newgrf by category seems nice, but load order matters for newgrf
18:27<TrueBrain>and what I would do, is always keep the categories visible
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18:29<TrueBrain>so, reasons to remove 8bpp: allow PNG loading, allow nicer shadows, allow (future) smoother news transitions
18:29<TrueBrain>well, they are all possible in 32bpp only
18:29<+glx>I think categories are ok for the available list, but not for the active config
18:29<TrueBrain>so no need to remove 8bpp, just you can't have it with 8bpp :D
18:30<TrueBrain>in general, most of those UIs are too busy
18:30<TrueBrain>too many things in there
18:30<TrueBrain>that doesn't work, not really
18:30<TrueBrain>less is more
18:31<TrueBrain>my idea would be to integrate online content with the screen you are at, as in: when you are looking at AIs, integrate the online content for AIs there
18:31<TrueBrain>having a single window with all online content, feels ... weird
18:31<TrueBrain>it was fun when there were like 100 things
18:31<+glx>opening online content by mistake is not fun ;)
18:31<TrueBrain>and sure, tabs solve that issue
18:32<TrueBrain>but .. there are other solutions too honestly, that just make the window not needed :P
18:32<TrueBrain>a single window with "Installed mods" would be sufficient
18:33<TrueBrain>server-side filtering
18:33<TrueBrain>that would also help a lot with the lag etc
18:33<+glx>yeah newgrf, ais, GS in mods config
18:34<TrueBrain>https://gist.github.com/TrueBrain/717ec940bb48d309747bffdc5b2e507e <- bottom image .. poorly visualised I now see
18:34<TrueBrain>I will see if I can work that out a bit tomorrow
18:34<TrueBrain>but just fluent integration of local and remote content
18:34<TrueBrain>also for savegames for when cloud-saves :P
18:35<+glx>yeah and get scenario from bananas when you want to start a scenario
18:35<TrueBrain>exactly
18:35<TrueBrain>just show the ones you have locally, and the first N best rated from remote
18:35<TrueBrain>when you type in a filter, allow fetching from remote when you click the "fetch from remote"
18:36<TrueBrain>rating system ... another problem :D
18:36<TrueBrain>giving stars has shown to not really work in this world
18:36<TrueBrain>but what does?
18:36<TrueBrain>upvote-only?
18:37<LordAro>searching thr forum with google is fun sometimes https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=354250#p354250
18:37<LordAro>https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=57124
18:39<TrueBrain>but yeah, if/when we make presets, we can redo AI settings etc too
18:41<TrueBrain>what is nice about people being able to upload presets, that we can see a bit what is popular :D
18:41<TrueBrain>gives a bit of telemetry at least :)
18:42<TrueBrain>right, time to get some sleep
18:42<Beerbelott>Alright, thx for your help (:
18:48<LordAro>#5147 contains some interesting ideas
18:48<LordAro>still haven't found what i've got in my head though
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18:56<LordAro>still not quite sure it's what i was originally thinking of, but https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/5147#issuecomment-379448533 seems quite close
19:03<@peter1138>There was PNG loading at some point, but it was removed for performance raisins.
19:21<TrueBrain>LordAro: not far off my mockup, so yes, that are tabs I can het behind :D
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20:49<Eddi|zuHause>so... i managed to sneak -flto=6 into the CXX_FLAGS, not sure if that was the "correct" way to do it though
20:51<Eddi|zuHause>that just about cut the compile time in half
20:52<Eddi|zuHause>real 2m29,525s
20:52<Eddi|zuHause>user 11m24,565s
20:52<Eddi|zuHause>sys 1m0,263s
21:10<supermop_Home>unfortunately eddi I am your only audience, so your feat is wasted on me
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