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#openttd IRC Logs for 2021-03-03

---Logopened Wed Mar 03 00:00:02 2021
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04:02<TrueBrain>one area we did not touch, multiplayer GUIs :P
04:07<rptr_>how do you mean multiplayer GUI?
04:08<TrueBrain>the GUIs for multiplayer :)
04:08<TrueBrain>you know, all those windows guiding you through setting up and joining another multiplayer game
04:11<_dp_>guiding? more like discouraging :p
04:12<TrueBrain>yes yes, everything is broken, OpenTTD sucks, blabla
04:12<TrueBrain>it is getting old
04:13<andythenorth>we can rebuild him!
04:13<andythenorth>we have the technology!
04:13<andythenorth>TrueBrain tell me your observations!
04:14<TrueBrain>a sun on a blue sky
04:14<TrueBrain>some houses in the distance
04:14<TrueBrain>a car parked in front of my house
04:14<andythenorth>go north
04:14<TrueBrain>a garden that hasn't been taken care for in a while
04:14<andythenorth>there is an egg here
04:14<TrueBrain>that is not how that game works andythenorth :P You cannot, as controller, say what is where :P
04:14*andythenorth playing wrong
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04:15<andythenorth>IMAGINE IF YOU COULD
04:15<andythenorth>think we just invented a new genre
04:15<TrueBrain>would make a boring game :)
04:15<andythenorth>and now we arrive immediately at why god invented people
04:15<andythenorth>with free will
04:16<andythenorth>* according to some
04:16<Wolf01>Exactly, people with free will are making my life a hell
04:16<andythenorth>ludic theory of omnipotent deity
04:16<andythenorth>omnipotence gets boring
04:17<andythenorth>anyway TrueBrain I think the button should be pink
04:17<andythenorth>that's my UI contribution
04:17<TrueBrain>ty, your opinion has been filed with the classification /dev/null
04:18<_dp_>TrueBrain, OpenTTD is old :p
04:18<_dp_>and dead :p
04:18<_dp_>but it's risen
04:18<_dp_>to eat players brains
04:19<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8799: Memory corruption in 1.11.0-beta2 on Android NDK in multiplayer servers list
04:20*andythenorth might have a shave
04:20<andythenorth>life admin
04:22<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] telk5093 opened issue #8800: Build on Linux with OPTION_DEDICATED=ON fails
04:28<Wolf01>70% probability... sure he tested at least 10 times
04:30<Wolf01>Updated mirc, nice, 64 colours now!
04:40<LordAro>omg, so many colours
04:41<Timberwolf>Blimey, that worked on irssi.
04:41<Timberwolf>Well. The 'o', 'a' and 'y' are near-invisible because black terminal background, but still.
04:41<@peter1138>There are only 7 colours. It is the law.
04:41<LordAro>it worked writing it on irssi too :p
04:41<rptr_>how do i make all my text light grey
04:41<Tulitomaatti>unexpected irssi colour.
04:42<Wolf01>What I have done...
04:42<rptr_>я не понемаио
04:44<Timberwolf>Sudden ZZT flashbacks...
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05:04<+glx>about #8800, maybe we should add this check to one of the linux CI
05:10<_dp_>glx, any opinion on ?
05:12<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] orudge commented on issue #8799: Memory corruption in 1.11.0-beta2 on Android NDK in multiplayer servers list
05:17<+glx>_dp_: yeah forcing minimum version for the lib seems ok
05:18<+glx>knowing theres API changes between each version IIRC
05:18<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #8799: Memory corruption in 1.11.0-beta2 on Android NDK in multiplayer servers list
05:21<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl updated pull request #8773: Add: Support Zstandard(zstd) savegame compression
05:25<@peter1138>My manager has a severe case of hanging-on-itis when it comes to ending a Teams call. Speak you later, see you, bye, bye. Always feels like I've hung up on him.
05:26<TrueBrain>I know that type of manager
05:26<TrueBrain>I like to toy with those manager a bit by not hanging up, and keep the bye going
05:26<TrueBrain>it becomes so awkward at a certain point
05:26<TrueBrain>fucking hilarious :D
05:32<@peter1138>Hmm, when I pause a game the Simulation rate: frames/s shows some seemingly random value.
05:32<TrueBrain>the last value; fixed in master
05:34<TrueBrain>LordAro: I am trying to get clang to compile against libc++ here, but .. CMake is refusing in so many ways :P
05:34<@peter1138>Not, I'm on g95462493ef which is after that change.
05:34<@peter1138>Okay, non-FFWD it shows 0.01 frames/s
05:34<@peter1138>Or 0.00. Logical, it's paused.
05:35<LordAro>TrueBrain: mm..
05:35<TrueBrain>and now it refuses to find algorithm, lol
05:35<@peter1138>FFWD I see 5787.61 frames/s one time, 12054.44 another time.
05:35<LordAro>in theory, CXXFLAGS=-stdlib=libc++ should be enough
05:35<@peter1138>Unpaused in FFWD it's a fairly steady 830 frames/s
05:35<TrueBrain>yeah, CFLAGS didn't work :P
05:35<TrueBrain>with CXXFLAGS I get include errors .. hmm
05:35<LordAro>well it's definitely doing something then!
05:35<@peter1138>33921.93, that'd be nice.
05:36<LordAro>do you have libc++ installed? :p
05:36<TrueBrain>made sure of that :D
05:36<TrueBrain>took me a while to figure out how :P
05:37<@peter1138>Also weird: when paused, the window is 1 pixel wider. Unpausing sets it back -1 pixel again.
05:37<TrueBrain>fatal error: 'algorithm' file not found .. hmm ...
05:37<@peter1138>I guess that's my font size.
05:38<@peter1138>" Road vehicle ticks:" is removed, I guess "Graphics rednering:" is 1 pixels shorter
05:38<@peter1138>Wrong way around above, paused is 1 pixel narrower, because the entries in the list change.
05:39<TrueBrain>anyway, LordAro , maybe edit your reply to read `CXXFLAGS="-stdlib=libc++"` .. that at least picks the right stdlib :) Now to figure out how to make it find includes ..
05:40<+glx>peter1138: autosave ?
05:44<TrueBrain>lol, had to add the include folder to /usr/lib/llvm-11/include/c++/v1/ myself ... what-ever clang :P
05:47<TrueBrain>at least that crashes too now :)
05:48<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8799: Memory corruption in 1.11.0-beta2 on Android NDK in multiplayer servers list
05:51<TrueBrain>the pointer given by algorithm is wrong, funny
05:52<TrueBrain>there is only 1 thread active, so that is not an issue either
05:52<LordAro>are the iterators valid?
05:53<TrueBrain>it uses ::begin() and ::end()
05:53<TrueBrain>so in that sense, I would surely hope so :D
05:53<TrueBrain>std::sort(std::vector<T>::begin(), std::vector<T>::end(), ...)
05:53<LordAro>hopefully, yes
05:54<TrueBrain>but one of the calls to the lambda seems to contain an invalid pointer nevertheless
05:54<TrueBrain>I guess the change we did in beta2, was to fix the sort-order of servers again
05:55<TrueBrain>but even there, I do not see why it crashes now and not before
05:56<TrueBrain>::end() is the first invalid entry, right?
05:57<TrueBrain>if my C++ knowledge remembers correctly, that was the odd thing about these things, not? :D
05:57<_dp_>can the vector change while being sorted?
05:57<TrueBrain>as the pointer to ::end() is given to the sorter lambda :P
05:57<LordAro>[begin, end) is common
05:58<LordAro>MSVC errors if the iterators are invalid, so that would've caught it normally
05:59<TrueBrain>"first, last - the range of elements to sort "
05:59<TrueBrain>that gives me no indication if they are inclusive or exclusive
05:59<TrueBrain>well done, specs
05:59<TrueBrain>Sorts the elements in the range [first, last) in non-descending order.
05:59<TrueBrain>at least that is clear
05:59<TrueBrain>so our call is okay, just libc++ seems to get confused
06:00<TrueBrain>they correct their "last" pretty quick to be [begin, end]
06:00<TrueBrain>but for some reason, it still calls the lambda with the end() value :P
06:02<LordAro> there's a couple here that could be relevant
06:03<LordAro>47903 particularly
06:03<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on issue #8799: Memory corruption in 1.11.0-beta2 on Android NDK in multiplayer servers list
06:04<LordAro>JGR agrees :D
06:06<TrueBrain>and solves the issue
06:08<LordAro>horrendous crash behaviour though
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06:11<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenSFX] silpol opened pull request #26: added Russian and Ukrainian translations
06:13<TrueBrain>LordAro: and you even fixed this issue before! How could you not spot this before JGR did :P :P :P
06:14<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #8801: Fix: NGameAllowedSorter() is not imposing strict weak ordering relation
06:14<LordAro>(i did?)
06:15<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8799: Memory corruption in 1.11.0-beta2 on Android NDK in multiplayer servers list
06:16<LordAro>oh, well, i copied JGR's solution :p
06:16<TrueBrain>it was also a lifetime ago, so it is fine :)
06:17<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenSFX] glx22 approved pull request #26: added Russian and Ukrainian translations
06:17<TrueBrain>so Discord denied the Verification of the server, with no reason given, except that we do not meet the requirements. They list them again, and we meet them one by one
06:17<TrueBrain>so .. yeah ... I emailed them, like: what does one have to do more to meet them? :D
06:18<TrueBrain>bit odd, honestly
06:18<TrueBrain>well, I requested it via DorpsGek .. that might be a bit of the problem, I guess
06:19<TrueBrain>the process is also a bit weird ... you fill in a very simple form with: state your name, state the server, and you have to link (via authenticatin) to twitter / GitHub / ..
06:19<TrueBrain>and that is it
06:19<TrueBrain>no field to explain or point to other places
06:24<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 approved pull request #8801: Fix: NGameAllowedSorter() is not imposing strict weak ordering relation
06:25<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenSFX] orudge merged pull request #26: added Russian and Ukrainian translations
06:26<_dp_>that's not a very good translation...
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06:27<+glx>we don't have eints for basesets, so we have to trust PRs
06:32<LordAro>not like we check the quality of eints translations either :p
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07:12<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro closed issue #8799: Memory corruption in 1.11.0-beta2 on Android NDK in multiplayer servers list
07:12<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #8801: Fix: NGameAllowedSorter() is not imposing strict weak ordering relation
07:15<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8794: Feature: Show rail/road/tram NewGRF name in Land Area Information window
07:20<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8733: Feature: Build train locomotive filter
07:23<TrueBrain>right, time for a monthly round of: have you updated this?
07:27<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8706: Feature: rail station class name filtering
07:29<TrueBrain>owh, bah, aiohttp backported the fix for chardet wrong .. so I still have to manually fix every repo .. bah :P
07:33<TrueBrain>I couldn't resist trying :D
07:34<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8700: Change: Recolour graph windows to brown
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07:41<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain updated pull request #82: Scheduled monthly dependency update for March
07:42<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-cli] TrueBrain updated pull request #18: Scheduled monthly dependency update for March
07:43<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-web] TrueBrain updated pull request #54: Scheduled monthly dependency update for March
07:45<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-cli] TrueBrain updated pull request #18: Scheduled monthly dependency update for March
07:47<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/bananas-server] TrueBrain updated pull request #42: Scheduled monthly dependency update for March
07:48<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/master-server] TrueBrain updated pull request #26: Scheduled monthly dependency update for March
07:49<TrueBrain>we need something better than pyup really ..
07:50<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/master-server-web] TrueBrain updated pull request #20: Scheduled monthly dependency update for March
07:51<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/DorpsGek] TrueBrain updated pull request #45: Scheduled monthly dependency update for March
07:51<TrueBrain>especially as it is refused to make a PR for eints
07:51<TrueBrain>which is really annoying
07:53<TrueBrain>owh, update is set to false
07:54<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain updated pull request #82: Scheduled monthly dependency update for March
07:55<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain updated pull request #82: Scheduled monthly dependency update for March
07:56<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler commented on pull request #8700: Change: Recolour graph windows to brown
07:56<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/eints] TrueBrain opened pull request #34: Fix: [pyup] automatic creating of PRs was disabled
07:57<TrueBrain>owh, eints is just broken
07:57<TrueBrain>well, of course it is :P
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07:58<LordAro>the branches aren't going to help there
07:58<TrueBrain>yeah .. we should make 2 projects out of it
07:58<TrueBrain>and push eints to pyup, honestly
07:58<TrueBrain>or just say: fuck everyone else, and merge openttd-github in master
08:00<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/eints] TrueBrain updated pull request #34: Fix: [pyup] automatic creating of PRs was disabled
08:01<TrueBrain>okay .. at least that works now :)
08:02<TrueBrain>after merging that, pyup can finally make a PR
08:02<TrueBrain>guess I might as well manually bump the other versions well there
08:03<_dp_>can #8709 get 1.11 tag?
08:04<_dp_>or revert window resizing
08:04<_dp_>because right now 1.11 puts the most important info in the worst possible place
08:04<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/eints] TrueBrain updated pull request #34: Fix: [pyup] automatic creating of PRs was disabled
08:07<TrueBrain>okay, all these update PRs are now ready for review
08:07<TrueBrain>and next, upgrading of AWS stuff \o/
08:08<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8709: Change: Don't show global goals in company goal windows
08:09<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/eints] LordAro approved pull request #34: Fix: [pyup] automatic creating of PRs was disabled
08:10<LordAro>TrueBrain: why is idna pinned?
08:11<TrueBrain>LordAro: everything I pinned is because of dependency issues .. chardet for aiohttp, idna for requests, and ssmap (or what was it called) for ... something else
08:11<TrueBrain>I forgot to write it in the PRs this time, didn't I? :D
08:12<TrueBrain>I wish I had a cleaner way to make it clear why we are holding back some packages ..
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08:15<LordAro>TrueBrain: section at the bottom of requirements.base, perhaps?
08:16<TrueBrain>LordAro: by pyup doesn't use that :(
08:16<LordAro>does it not respect it at all?
08:17<TrueBrain>it only looks at requirements.txt and bumps it
08:17<TrueBrain>maybe it uses too
08:17<TrueBrain>but requirements.base is something I "invented"
08:17<TrueBrain>because we lack in all those repos
08:18<TrueBrain>right, time to scale up our AWS instances to break down the old ones after :)
08:21<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/eints] TrueBrain merged pull request #34: Fix: [pyup] automatic creating of PRs was disabled
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08:36<TrueBrain>owh SHIT
08:36<TrueBrain>I forgot something didn't I? :D
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08:37<TrueBrain>I keep forgetting :(
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08:38<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on pull request #192: Add: rework our "Contact" page
08:38<TrueBrain>ready for review ^^
08:41<TrueBrain>okay, AWS upgraded .. was ... without incident, it seems
08:42<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/eints] TrueBrain created new tag: openttd-github-1.0.11
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08:58<TrueBrain>okay, I should have solved the DorpsGek issue for real now :P
09:11<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/website] glx22 approved pull request #192: Add: rework our "Contact" page
09:12<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain merged pull request #192: Add: rework our "Contact" page
09:18<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain opened pull request #196: Update both Python and Gem dependencies to latest
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10:00<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/website] LordAro approved pull request #196: Update both Python and Gem dependencies to latest
10:01<TrueBrain>Why that smiley, LordAro? :)
10:02<LordAro>testing is what we have staging for, right?
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10:27<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain merged pull request #196: Update both Python and Gem dependencies to latest
10:27<TrueBrain>2 down, 7 more to go :P We need to find a better way to do this tbh
10:29<TrueBrain>owh, I now see where your idna question came from .. had to do when both the app and regression_runner were installed
10:29<TrueBrain>one downgraded it, before testing
10:29<TrueBrain>so that was .. not ideal
10:37<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain created new tag: 1.4.19
10:38<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain approved pull request #82: Scheduled monthly dependency update for March
10:38<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-web] TrueBrain approved pull request #54: Scheduled monthly dependency update for March
10:38<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/bananas-server] TrueBrain approved pull request #42: Scheduled monthly dependency update for March
10:38<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/DorpsGek] TrueBrain approved pull request #45: Scheduled monthly dependency update for March
10:39<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/master-server] TrueBrain approved pull request #26: Scheduled monthly dependency update for March
10:39<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/master-server-web] TrueBrain approved pull request #20: Scheduled monthly dependency update for March
10:39<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain merged pull request #82: Scheduled monthly dependency update for March
10:39<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/master-server-web] TrueBrain merged pull request #20: Scheduled monthly dependency update for March
10:39<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/master-server] TrueBrain merged pull request #26: Scheduled monthly dependency update for March
10:40<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/DorpsGek] TrueBrain merged pull request #45: Scheduled monthly dependency update for March
10:40<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/bananas-server] TrueBrain merged pull request #42: Scheduled monthly dependency update for March
10:40<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-web] TrueBrain merged pull request #54: Scheduled monthly dependency update for March
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10:48<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-web] TrueBrain created new tag: 1.0.9
10:48<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/DorpsGek] TrueBrain created new tag: 2.0.4
10:48<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/master-server] TrueBrain created new tag: 1.0.10
10:49<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/bananas-server] TrueBrain created new tag: 1.1.2
10:49<TrueBrain>lets see if I fixed DorpsGek ...
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10:52<TrueBrain>much better, not? :D
10:52<LordAro>@seen Yexo
10:52<@DorpsGek>LordAro: I have not seen Yexo.
10:55<TrueBrain>more than 5000 lines are lost in the Seen database
10:55<TrueBrain>so yeah ... that file got heavily corrupted at some point
10:55<TrueBrain>if I am really bored one day, I will correct the issue :P
10:55<TrueBrain>requires replaying logs .. so it is a bit of a work :D
10:56<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain created new tag: 1.0.10
10:56<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/master-server-web] TrueBrain created new tag: 1.0.9
10:56<TrueBrain>okay, that should be all
10:56<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-cli] TrueBrain approved pull request #18: Scheduled monthly dependency update for March
10:57<TrueBrain>I lied
10:57<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-cli] TrueBrain merged pull request #18: Scheduled monthly dependency update for March
11:00<TrueBrain>all names after H are gone, basically
11:01<TrueBrain>means I just have to download the logs since my last backup, and replay it to recover it
11:03<TrueBrain>might do that soon, just ... because I can
11:03<TrueBrain>the hickups you are seeing are now also reported on "sdl" (the non-OpenGL)
11:03<TrueBrain>interesting ..
11:03<TrueBrain>someone really should debug that :D
11:03<TrueBrain>I can help, but I cannot reproduce it, so ... meh
11:08<@peter1138>Does anyone still care about 80 character columns?
11:11<TrueBrain>the Python projects OpenTTD has put it on 120
11:29<@peter1138>80 is about 1/3rd of my developing window :-)
11:29<@peter1138>120 is half.
11:36<_dp_>perfect for split screen ;)
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11:38<@peter1138>I somehow miss text-only computing.
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11:55<Eddi|zuHause>you've been eaten by a grue
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12:11<_dp_>master server doesn't seem to be feeling well
12:12<LordAro>TrueBrain: ^
12:26<TrueBrain>pproxy seems to fail .. product has no changelogs ..
12:26<TrueBrain>best guess, 2.3 server and 2.7 client cannot talk to each other
12:26<TrueBrain>which would be really annoying if true ... but lets a 2.7 server
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12:37<TrueBrain>its funny, it is fully operational .. just traffic is not flowing back out of the network :D
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12:50<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac updated pull request #8706: Feature: rail station class name filtering
12:51<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac commented on pull request #8794: Feature: Show rail/road/tram NewGRF name in Land Area Information window
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12:54<TrueBrain>ugh, it really is the new pproxy
12:56<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac updated pull request #8794: Feature: Show rail/road/tram NewGRF name in Land Area Information window
12:59<TrueBrain>we can bitch about our commit messages, and how difficult it can be
12:59<TrueBrain>but the other side of the spectrum is this:
12:59<TrueBrain>check the commit message
12:59<TrueBrain>check the change ..
12:59<TrueBrain>breaking APIs like there is no tomorrow
13:00<LordAro>oh dear
13:01<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/master-server] TrueBrain opened pull request #27: Fix: pproxy changed their API without telling anyone
13:01<TrueBrain>I am not annoyed at all or anything
13:02<LordAro>i suppose it is an internal function...
13:02<LordAro>oh wait, no
13:02<LordAro>it's internal to us :)
13:02<LordAro>is that the only one?
13:02<TrueBrain>we really only use it to set the destination address and to get the SOCKS header
13:02<LordAro>worth adding "try this function or this other function" block, in case they change it back again? :p
13:02<TrueBrain>that is rather unlikely
13:02<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/master-server] LordAro approved pull request #27: Fix: pproxy changed their API without telling anyone
13:03<TrueBrain>looking for another library, that is better advise :P
13:03<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/master-server] TrueBrain merged pull request #27: Fix: pproxy changed their API without telling anyone
13:03<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/master-server] TrueBrain created new tag: 1.0.11
13:03<TrueBrain>well, at least the rest of AWS did get a nice health-check
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13:04<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac updated pull request #8733: Feature: Build train locomotive filter
13:04<sugarman> <--- in this guide where say "set vehicle.dynamic_engines = on"
13:04<sugarman>is wrong
13:04<TrueBrain>there is this "edit" button on the wiki
13:04<TrueBrain>really odd, but our wiki allows editing :D
13:04<sugarman>it not work in new version when put "="
13:05<sugarman>u must not have =
13:05<sugarman>TrueBrain: me no want make account for 1 ez thing
13:05<sugarman>so sorry
13:05<TrueBrain>and so ..... you want us to do the work instead?
13:05<TrueBrain>sounds unfair :)
13:05<LordAro>you're probably gonna have a bad time if you spend time pointing out every tiny incorrect detail with the wiki
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13:06<sugarman>that is technical problem LordAro
13:06<TrueBrain>okay, curious if it will now hit the limit of DynamoDB .. pam pam pammmm
13:06<sugarman>will hurt player trying play older scenario :(
13:06<TrueBrain>so please fix it ! :)
13:06<LordAro>also, not sure you're supposed to edit "Archive" pages
13:06<FLHerne>sugarman: Anyway, that setting has been `on` by default for 15 years or so
13:06<TrueBrain>LordAro: I do not see why not :)
13:07<+glx>IIRC = works, but without spaces
13:07<sugarman>FLHerne: it is, but not on old scenarios 4some reason
13:07<sugarman>config have dynamic_engines = true but still do this
13:07<sugarman>glx: either way, is wrong on wiki if u try to paste
13:07<LordAro>glx: sounds trivial to fix
13:08<sugarman>do scenarios have own config settings??
13:08<TrueBrain>so by now you spend more time talking about it sugarman , than it would have taken you to fix it yourself ;)
13:08<+glx>ah no, I checked the source, no "="
13:09<LordAro>sugarman: yes, there are many settings that are stored in the savegame/scenario itself
13:09<sugarman>even ones also in openttd.config LordAro ?
13:09<TrueBrain>owh, funny, servers are signing in one by one of course, so the load is spread out .. sweet :D By accident, that is implemented in a good way :D
13:10<LordAro>sugarman: yes, the ones in openttd.cfg (that are also stored in the savegame) are the defaults for new savegames
13:10<sugarman>if tokyo metro give fatal newgrf issue becuz dynamic engine is off, if i turn on by console will it just work or do i have to relaunch scenario? LordAro
13:11<sugarman>becuz if i have to relaunch scenario, then is impossible 2 get it to work cuz the scenario would override it anyway
13:12<LordAro>(i have no idea, try it and find out!)
13:12<sugarman>i cant tell if its working or broke bcuz i cant see what it looks like when it works f
13:12<sugarman>life is pain
13:14<TrueBrain>we should rename this channel honestly ... #everything-sucks would be a better name ;)
13:16<sugarman>except for me :)
13:16<TrueBrain>okay, master-server bounced back nicely now
13:17<TrueBrain>weird that sentry was not picking up on the exception
13:17<TrueBrain>happened in a weird thread in Python
13:17<+glx>should I PR to master ?
13:17<TrueBrain>and it got eaten somewhere
13:17<TrueBrain>glx: only after you fix the problem, but yes :P
13:17<TrueBrain>well, also please make it an extra entry in the matrix
13:18<TrueBrain>instead of using "libsdl2", as now libsdl2 won't be tested I think :P
13:18<TrueBrain>owh, it is in addition to
13:18<sugarman>this is the best scenario in openttd
13:18<TrueBrain>that might be a bit weird? Dunno .. I would add to the matrix an entry like: extra-cmake-parameters glx :)
13:18<+glx>it's an extra step to one of the matrix builds yes
13:18<TrueBrain>as now you "cd" into the wrong build folder :P
13:19<+glx>oh indeed copy paste
13:19<TrueBrain>deduplication there might be nice
13:19<TrueBrain>simpler == better :)
13:19<+glx>so extra-cmake-parameters and another addition to the matrix
13:19<TrueBrain>I think that is better
13:19<TrueBrain>easier to see what breaks
13:20<TrueBrain>and we might want to test other parameters too :D
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13:21<TrueBrain>morning frosch123
13:23<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8784: Alt-Enter to make OpenTTD fullscreen desyncs actual fullscreen state from toggle in Game Options
13:23<frosch123>hoi, alt+tab issue was fixed after beta2?
13:24<LordAro>alt+tab has been fixed
13:24<LordAro>alt+enter has not
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13:24<TrueBrain>depends on "what issue", but for Windows, the problem has been fixed, yes:
13:24<frosch123>ok, that was after beta2 :)
13:25<frosch123>i can't await your website PR :)
13:25<TrueBrain>which one?
13:26<_dp_>I know there are some fans of breakdowns here...
13:26<frosch123>well, this mail was before the merge :)
13:26<TrueBrain>owh, you are talking about an email
13:26<_dp_>How about you implement some way to know where the damn train actually got lost? ;)
13:26<TrueBrain>sorry, context is everything frosch123 :)
13:26<_dp_>should make hunting for wrong depots much easier
13:26<frosch123>the timeline is important here :) beta2 < alt-tab fix < bug report via mail < website contact update :)
13:26<TrueBrain>frosch123: and the new contact page is live btw :)
13:27<frosch123>yes, i just learnt that :)
13:27<TrueBrain>hopefully that helps
13:28<TrueBrain>I have also been pressing Unsubscribe lately on stupid emails from things like Docker
13:29<frosch123>do we still use dockerhub? or was it completely replaces by gh actions?
13:29<TrueBrain>as far as I know, we do not make use of it anymore, no
13:29<TrueBrain>well, replaced by GHCR (GitHub Container Repository)
13:35<+glx>oh I see the issue, we detect everything independant of OPTION_DEDICATED, then we link some depending on OPTION_DEDICATED
13:36<+glx>and of course some stuff is found (like Fontconfig) then ignored, but still known to CMake
13:40<TrueBrain>WITH_ variables exist for that reason :)
13:41<+glx>but add_files happen before link_package
13:41<+glx>so WITH_ is not set
13:41<+glx>and we use _FOUND
13:43<TrueBrain>ah, for adding files, yes :D
13:43<TrueBrain>silly :D
13:43<+glx>that's the issue here
13:44<+glx>I'll just add extra dedicated checks around lib detection I think
13:48<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8773: Add: Support Zstandard(zstd) savegame compression
13:52<TrueBrain>LordAro: just as a FYI, ^^ would effectively remove Ubuntu 18.04 and Debian Buster from our release targets. I don't really have feeling about that one way or the other, but you are our biggest advocate for these targets, so just wanted to keep you in the loop there :)
13:53<LordAro>rules it out of 1.11, at the very least
13:53<TrueBrain>I have no clue if it is difficult to make it zstd1.3 compatible too, or if they are even compatible
13:54<LordAro>that would be the ideal
13:55<+glx>it builds, but fails testing
13:55<TrueBrain>something is not skipping timestamps, lol
13:56<TrueBrain>but nice glx :D
13:56<+glx>I guess I need to add a regex
13:56<+glx>will look after dinner
13:56<TrueBrain>bon apetit
14:00<@peter1138>Uhoh, my Windows tablet is updating... takes a while with 1GB RAM on an Atom...
14:01<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on pull request #8773: Add: Support Zstandard(zstd) savegame compression
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14:03<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8773: Add: Support Zstandard(zstd) savegame compression
14:06<_dp_>I guess it's not that big of a deal to add it just for network
14:06<_dp_>worst case server owners will have to learn how to change compression :p
14:07<TrueBrain>well, basically that, yes :)
14:07<TrueBrain>and if it breaks terribly .. we just do a patch-release, I mean ..
14:07<TrueBrain>they are non-persisting saves, so boo-fucking-hoo :P
14:07<_dp_>it's just that openttd does not differentiate between saving reasons
14:08<TrueBrain>not -yet- :P
14:08<TrueBrain>but it feels like that is an easy thing to add :)
14:08<_dp_>so now have to think how to do it properly :/
14:08<TrueBrain>:D Sorry :P
14:08<TrueBrain>but in my book, it would be for the better :)
14:08<_dp_>well, jgr added it quite simply
14:09<TrueBrain>how did he do it?
14:09<_dp_>but if you think about it server and client can both have different set of libraries compiled
14:09<LordAro>yeah, there's no reason why it couldn't just be an optional dependency like all the others, no need to change any defaults
14:09<_dp_>so ideally client should somehow let server know what it has and server pick what it agrees on
14:09<TrueBrain>we do not handshake compression algorithms :D
14:09<LordAro>no need to drop platform support because of it
14:09<TrueBrain>not sure I follow you here LordAro
14:10<LordAro>server supports zstd and uses it for its save
14:10<TrueBrain>_dp_: doable for sure, just .. more work :D
14:10<LordAro>client does not, and just gets an error on connection
14:10<_dp_>TrueBrain, jgr just made all network saves and autosaves use zstd
14:10<TrueBrain>LordAro: you consider that correct behaviour?
14:10<LordAro>no different from someone compiling OTTD without lzma support today
14:10<_dp_>well, that's the behaviour we currently have, zstd or not :p
14:11<TrueBrain>LordAro: self-compiled, yes .. but binaries we publish?
14:11<TrueBrain>it is the reason our binaries have LZO :P
14:11<_dp_>you can compile without lzma and get screwed xD
14:11<TrueBrain>we really cannot publish binaries where you cannot join servers with :D
14:11<TrueBrain>like .. you get "just" an error
14:11<TrueBrain>huh? I downloaded it from the official website?
14:11<TrueBrain>that .. is not good :D
14:11<_dp_>but yeah, I agree, official ones should have it
14:11<LordAro>like i said, the better solution would be being compatible with zstd 1.3
14:12<TrueBrain>or, what _dp_ suggests, handshake compression algorithms available
14:12<TrueBrain>and make the server fallback to a matching one
14:12<LordAro>can the server change compression algorithms as easy as that?
14:12<TrueBrain>it really is that easy
14:12<LordAro>well then
14:12<@peter1138>With something better than just a bool like in JGR's patch :)
14:12<_dp_>handshake seems much easier to implement
14:13<LordAro>depends on the incompatibilities in zstd1.3 vs 1.4
14:13<_dp_>than trying to understand anything in that crap of documentation zstd has :/
14:13<TrueBrain>LordAro: :)
14:14<LordAro>TrueBrain: i was specifically referring to network save compression :p
14:14<TrueBrain>all saves go through there :)
14:14<TrueBrain>so there is need for some flag to indicate origin, for sure
14:15<@peter1138>Ooh, it's up to 27%
14:15<TrueBrain>there is already a threaded flag
14:15<TrueBrain>possibly that can be collapsed into one
14:15<LordAro>sounds overly generic to do something like that
14:15<TrueBrain>someone already poked a hole in everything for "threaded" :)
14:16<TrueBrain>what part sounds overly generic?
14:16<LordAro>should be 3 functions that all call this one with a specific compression format
14:16<TrueBrain>if you want to do it proper, you maintain the layered approach we have no tbh
14:16<TrueBrain>but again, holes are already poked for this with "threaded"
14:16<TrueBrain>over all layers :)
14:17<LordAro>why is threaded saves even a thing that can be disabled?
14:17<_dp_>not only it's 27% but also a very fast compression which is the most important thing for server itself
14:17<TrueBrain>LordAro: emergency saves, I guess
14:18<TrueBrain>LordAro: yup, emergency saves
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14:19<TrueBrain>owh, and autosave vs normal load
14:19<TrueBrain>uses the same code :P
14:19<TrueBrain>never look too close into these things, in general you regret the choice :D
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14:20<TrueBrain>funny, threaded is true by default, but more places set it to false :D
14:20<frosch123>there is already a dependency in the saveload code for saving for joining
14:21<frosch123>it's probably ugly, but depot-order-backups involve that magic
14:22<frosch123>if (!_networking || !_network_server) return; <- Save_BKOR(): i expected something more fancy :p
14:22<TrueBrain>that is the nice alternative way of doing that, yes :p
14:23<TrueBrain>I am a bit surprised "threaded" is added as parameter, and not as global
14:23<TrueBrain>not sure it is bad/good, just surprised
14:23<TrueBrain>we also have this of course:
14:23<TrueBrain>if (_network_server || !_settings_client.gui.threaded_saves) threaded = false;
14:24<TrueBrain>LordAro: now if you ask me why it is (still) a setting to disable threading for saves, that I really do not know :P
14:24<TrueBrain>back when 2 cores were the exception, I am sure there was a reason for that :D
14:27<TrueBrain>okay, I should stop reading this code .. just funny to see years of evolution :)
14:28<_dp_>wait, network server doesn't have threaded saves?
14:28<TrueBrain>_dp_: I was surprised too, honestly, but it seems they are forcefully disabled, yes
14:28<_dp_>wtf, why
14:28<TrueBrain>must be a reason there :D
14:28<TrueBrain>not documented of course
14:28<TrueBrain>because .. "it is obvious, not" :D
14:28<TrueBrain>past-us hunting us down :P
14:29*_dp_ unpacks flamethrower
14:30<TrueBrain>it was never possible, it seems
14:31<TrueBrain>"The server is disabled from threaded-saving, but might be enabled in the future."
14:31<TrueBrain>16 years later
14:32<TrueBrain>_dp_: it is threaded these days for joins
14:32<TrueBrain>so "save" in console is blocking
14:32<TrueBrain>joins are not
14:33<_dp_>I don't even...
14:34<TrueBrain>the worst part, I am not even surprised :D
14:35<TrueBrain>so basically, for joins, the servers starts making a savegame in a thread
14:35<TrueBrain>and when data becomes available, it is send to the client
14:35<TrueBrain>so during compression
14:35<TrueBrain>it doesn't wait till compression is done
14:36<TrueBrain>_dp_: I would guess you did not take that into account with your matrix overview? (no judgement btw; as I wouldn't)
14:37<frosch123>maybe it's just to give a synchronous success/failure response?
14:37<_dp_>well, it changes nothing for that matrix
14:37<_dp_>as it doesn't even measure C++ :p
14:37<TrueBrain>_dp_: no, but the time difference between lzma and zstd would be less, I would guess?
14:37<TrueBrain>as things happen at the same time
14:38<TrueBrain>where you assumed they do not?
14:38<_dp_>well, if you add common blocking part yes
14:38<_dp_>but it's relatively short afaict
14:38<TrueBrain>btw, did you really assume a connection speed of 100 mbit/s? :D
14:39<_dp_>yeah, smth like that :p
14:39<TrueBrain>that might not be realistic ;)
14:39<_dp_>technology doesn't stay still
14:40<_dp_>we need to look into the future :p
14:40<TrueBrain>other random question: does your data mean that the average map-size, after compression, is 2MB atm, over all public servers?
14:40<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/team] frosch123 commented on issue #151: [zh_TW] Translator access request
14:40<_dp_>TrueBrain, yes, 2.05
14:40<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/team] frosch123 commented on issue #150: [hu_HU] Translator access request
14:41<TrueBrain>that is really small
14:41<TrueBrain>I expected larger
14:41<frosch123>dp probably disabled trees
14:41<_dp_>@calc 381315 / 180.
14:41<@DorpsGek>_dp_: 2118.4166666666665
14:41<TrueBrain>well, he says all public servers, so I assume he connected to all :P
14:42<_dp_>yeah, all 180 server I could connect to
14:42<TrueBrain>what is the biggest you have?
14:42<TrueBrain>either way, 2 MB means you need a 20 mbit/s connection to download it in 1 seconds .. so download-time is a non-factor, basically :P
14:43<TrueBrain>31MB, okay, more what I expected :D
14:43<_dp_>second biggest < 10mb xD
14:43<TrueBrain>yeah, but so the actual download speed is really not important .. so zstd would really make a difference
14:44<TrueBrain>even with making the savegames bigger
14:44<TrueBrain>anyway, enough joking around in saveload code .. _dp_ , if I were you I would look into zstd1.3 compatibility, as that sounds easier, but I personally would not be against handshakes and a server picking the best one :)
14:45<_dp_>yeah, I looked, 1.3 seems doable but there were some performance improvements in 1.4
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14:45<TrueBrain>it is client-only, so they are less relevant, not?
14:46<TrueBrain>as long as the format is compatible :D
14:46<TrueBrain>and additionally, making autosaves use zstd would really be cherry-on-top for me
14:46<TrueBrain>as the sizes of those games is less important than getting it over with ASAP :P
14:46<TrueBrain>honestly, personally, I could even live with making zstd:1 default
14:46<TrueBrain>it is not like diskspace is expensive these days
14:47<frosch123>is zstd that stable? the discussion read like it is still evolving
14:48<frosch123>for long-term savegame storage you want a stable compression format
14:48<TrueBrain>it is a Facebook product
14:48-!-danneb [~oftc-webi@2a02:aa1:101f:dd27:51f0:7e24:37fa:dfae] has quit []
14:48<TrueBrain>and everything you now think of it, is true
14:48<TrueBrain>frosch123: that is a very good point, okay, I take it back
14:48<TrueBrain>no zstd:1 default :P
14:49<frosch123>i only used one facebook product once (prestodb). it was a bit uff :p
14:50<TrueBrain>it is really silly that most people have this idea how they make software, and it turns out to be true in many cases
14:50<frosch123>luckily i could delegate dealing with it to an intern :p
14:50<TrueBrain>what they did with the zstd API is just ... like .. wtf
14:50<TrueBrain>their naming of functions was (and still somewhat is) a total shitshow
14:50<TrueBrain>I read JGR also found this out recently :P
14:50<frosch123>is it as bad as ruby?
14:50<TrueBrain>I ignore that Ruby exists
14:50<TrueBrain>so I wouldn't know :P
14:51<frosch123>chop, chop! chunk, chunk!
14:51<TrueBrain>we did not try gollum, and we did not use wikicloth
14:51<frosch123>perfect names for a standard library
14:51<_dp_>zstd seems stable but I can't find any definite statement on that so far
14:52<_dp_>api is not that bad, they just have two names for same stuff atm and plan to deprecate one in future
14:52<frosch123>if it is facebook, it's probably safe to assume it's dead in 5 years
14:52<TrueBrain>it has been around for a few already, so who knows
14:52<frosch123>s/dead/incompatible/ or similar
14:52<_dp_>well, it's bsd license, we can always embed it :p
14:53<TrueBrain>alternatives are popping up fast too
14:53<TrueBrain>just take a few years for any to mature :)
14:53<frosch123>joining is the only case where speed matters
14:53<TrueBrain>autosaves too, I would say
14:54<frosch123>autosave thread can take as long as it wants to?
14:54<TrueBrain>it disables FF!
14:54<frosch123>why? because it has to finish within a month?
14:54<TrueBrain>I think so
14:54<TrueBrain>not sure
14:54<TrueBrain>only know it annoyed me :P
14:55<TrueBrain>we did discover that if you try 2 autosaves at once, the second is just ignored
14:55<_dp_>well, it would be weird to have 2 autosaves going on at the same time...
14:55<TrueBrain>so not really a reason in my opinion
14:55<_dp_>and if there are 10 and they cycle...
14:55<TrueBrain>but that doesn't happen
14:55<TrueBrain>so .. shrug
14:55<frosch123>it's weird to tie autosaves to in-game time
14:55<TrueBrain>it is
14:56<TrueBrain>shall we change it? :D
14:56<TrueBrain>we have the meansi now
14:56<frosch123>do autosaves never trigger when building in pause?
14:56<TrueBrain>now there is a question ..
14:57<TrueBrain>OnNewMonth is the only place that sets _do_autosave to true
14:57<TrueBrain>so that would strongly suggest, during pause, no autosaves are ever made
14:58<TrueBrain>really strange, if you think about it :D
14:58<TrueBrain>well, the game used to have no other means of doing it, ofc
14:58<TrueBrain>the same reason the whole network protocol is tight to ticks :)
14:58<TrueBrain>lag-detection is not done on real time, but on game time
14:59<frosch123>are you sure? i think building-in-pause also works in multiplayer
14:59<TrueBrain>that would be new, let me try
15:00<frosch123>i think network-frames also run while paused
15:00<TrueBrain>ah, yeah, that would be the cheat, ofc
15:00<TrueBrain>makes sense
15:00<TrueBrain>we can now change a few to real-time, would make it possible to change the game-speed server-side :D
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15:01<frosch123>did you already add the packet "upgrade connection to websocket"?
15:01<TrueBrain>I have been staying away from the network for now, sorry :P
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15:02<supermop_Home>yo andy
15:03<TrueBrain>frosch123: and it seems I should now focus on stabilizing 1.11, making it even worse! :P
15:03<supermop_Home>i was thinking, at least for the firs layout, maybe i should rotate the lobby building of the hotel
15:03<TrueBrain>some weird reports about lag on both sdl and sdl-opengl
15:04<TrueBrain>need to find a way to debug that shit
15:04<frosch123>TrueBrain: by buying weird hardware with weird graphics cards?
15:04<frosch123>TrueBrain: default for sdl changed from 8bpp to 32bpp
15:04<supermop_Home>so both big atrium windows face out to the SE, instead of the current two staircase ends
15:04<frosch123>just in case you forgot :)
15:04<TrueBrain>frosch123: did it? It was 32bpp for me already
15:04<TrueBrain>well, I dunno if that was already changed during 1.11 of course
15:04<frosch123>32bpp was for windows and osx
15:05<TrueBrain>but my testing of OpenGL showed SDL was also doing 32bpp by default for me
15:05<TrueBrain>which surprised me :D
15:05<frosch123>maybe you were using zbase or abase :p
15:05<TrueBrain>clean everything with OpenGFX
15:06<TrueBrain>yeah, I even made note of it in the OpenGL thread
15:06<TrueBrain>I wonder when that changed
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15:08<TrueBrain>dbg: [driver] Successfully loaded blitter '32bpp-sse2-anim'
15:08<TrueBrain>on 1.10 frosch123
15:09<TrueBrain>clean checkout of the 1.10.3 tag
15:09<TrueBrain>downloaded OpenGFX via bootstrap
15:10<TrueBrain>same for 1.9
15:10<TrueBrain>is that my setup?
15:13<LordAro>zstd is stable enough that arch have switched to it for packaging
15:13<TrueBrain>that is not nothing
15:13<LordAro> also this
15:14<TrueBrain>LordAro: not bad
15:15<frosch123>TrueBrain: no, you are right... there is actually no os depencency... it's just a config-file-only setting "support8bpp" that defaults to "no"
15:15<TrueBrain>ah, pfew :D
15:16<TrueBrain>otherwise I would have regretted my vote to make 32bpp default :P
15:17<frosch123>even worse, it was me :p
15:17<TrueBrain>:D :D :D
15:17<frosch123>in 2014, lol
15:17<TrueBrain>6 years ago, nice :D
15:18<TrueBrain>7 almost
15:18<TrueBrain>directly after the release of 1.4 :P
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15:26<arikover>hello everybody!
15:28<frosch123>hmm, i am trying to write the changelog for NML...
15:28<frosch123>apparently procedures were invented in the last 6 months :) i thought it was longer ago
15:31<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] giordy commented on issue #8038: Fullscreen mode in MacOSX is almost unusable
15:32<frosch123>switches with parameters and optimisations are new... FLHerne: glx: what do you think of going for 0.6.0 instead of 0.5.4 :p
15:33<frosch123>oh damn, noone wrote docs for parameters...
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15:37<+glx>procedures existed internally
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15:40<andythenorth>frosch123 I think 0.6.0
15:40<andythenorth>but I enjoyed this yesterday
15:42<frosch123>andythenorth: do you know how nml procedures and parameters work?
15:42<frosch123>can i volunteer you for the docs? :)
15:45<andythenorth>can I wait until it's 12 months? :P
15:46<andythenorth>we could write docs on livestream?
15:47<FLHerne>frosch123: Yeah, besides that there's been a lot of code churn
15:54<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/nml] frosch123 opened pull request #193: Update: changelog for 0.6.0
15:54<andythenorth>how to explain procedures in plain language?
15:54<andythenorth>to non-programmers?
15:55<andythenorth>I didn't understand them for years (in nfo)
15:55<frosch123>with examples
15:55<frosch123>"with nml 0.6.0 you can use switches inside expressions, and pass stuff to them, like this"
15:55<andythenorth>"However, instead of branching, it is a subroutine call, with the value calculated by the called entry being used as variable value."
15:56<frosch123>that's not for non-programmers, that's for fortran people
15:57<andythenorth>I have lots of examples, mostly silly ones
15:57<andythenorth>I won't include the loop unroll :P
15:57<frosch123>oh, i forgot that. i agree, it was a bad idea to ask you :p
15:58<FLHerne>frosch123: Should probably mention "Change: simplify the code and enforce usage of '()' for calls" as it's a breaking change
15:58<andythenorth>I have some nice ones
15:58<frosch123>FLHerne: to my understandting there were no calls before at all
15:58<frosch123>so, nothing that could be broken
15:59<andythenorth>quite a good example
15:59<andythenorth>can't remember why I do that instead of the nml built-in
15:59<andythenorth>shouldn't I be using FORWARD_SELF(x) instead?
15:59<andythenorth>with random switch?
16:01<frosch123>no, that syntax should be labeled deprecated
16:01<frosch123>it's in the top 5 of worst newgrf additions :)
16:01<andythenorth>it's unfortunately presented
16:02<andythenorth>because it seems like the 'correct' thing to use
16:02<andythenorth>but I usually end up replacing it with random bits, because I don't understand random switch
16:02<andythenorth>and discord say it all works fine
16:02<frosch123>andythenorth: do you have an example without var[0x61,..] ? :)
16:03<andythenorth>they all include templating so far
16:03<andythenorth>big silly loops to build structures
16:04<andythenorth>hmm no
16:05<andythenorth>I found that they are rarely needed for simple cases
16:05<andythenorth>they're worth using for complex situations
16:06<andythenorth>there's a nice one in FIRS for terrain sprites, but it doesn't return anything useful, it relies on stuffing the sprite number into a register for reuse later
16:07<andythenorth>cut a lot of repeated switches out though
16:08<andythenorth>no params
16:09<andythenorth>someone will tell me there's a built-in for that now :)
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16:21<+glx>that's a nice procedure
16:22<@peter1138>How do I explain regexs to normal people? :/
16:22<TrueBrain>1 problem + regex == 2 problems
16:22<andythenorth>there are 10 kinds of people etc
16:22<TrueBrain>that is how
16:22*andythenorth has avoided regexp forever
16:22<+glx>and regex format depends on the language
16:22<+glx>cmake is quite limited
16:22<frosch123>peter1138: it's meta-magic done with runes
16:23<andythenorth>glx procedures are really helpful, I've removed so much duplicated code
16:23<andythenorth>and made my own pseudo-variables where the ottd ones are 'broken'
16:23<+glx>but I managed to write a working regex
16:24<frosch123>is that was grandparents tell their grandchildren? i wrote a working regex once?
16:24<+glx>and on the first try
16:25<+glx>that's an exploit
16:25<+glx>usually it needs a lot of trial and error
16:26<andythenorth>I never tried
16:27<andythenorth>but I have used multi-threading to generate n problems
16:27<andythenorth>I only fork-bombed one person I think
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16:38<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 opened pull request #8802: Fix #8800: Compilation with OPTION_DEDICATED=ON
16:40<+glx>pff issue linking doesn't work with PR title
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17:35<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/team] Greavez opened issue #152: [pt_BR] Translator access request
17:40<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/team] frosch123 commented on issue #152: [pt_BR] Translator access request
17:41<TrueBrain>I still have Steam stuff to translate ... we need to find a way to extend eints for those things :D
17:43<+glx>I think eints can have multiple projects
17:45-!-frosch123 [] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn]
17:46<+glx>but for baseset description translations (3 strings in total I think), creating 3 projects would be overkill
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17:49<TrueBrain>dunno, they are cheap to create as far as I know
17:49<TrueBrain>but Steam stuff doesn't fit in there
17:49<TrueBrain>I can always copy/paste them out of it
17:49<TrueBrain>will have to ask frosch123 how he sees that, but he just run by the reading of it :P
17:49<+glx>ah no there are 4 strings in opengfx (2 matters), 1 in opensfx and 1 in openmsx
17:50<TrueBrain>best would be if they are separate projects but show as one, I think
17:50<TrueBrain>we should do something with it anyway :)
17:50<+glx>yup easier to manage
17:52<+glx>they seem to be typical newgrf lang format, so eints should handle them (I think eints was used for them when they were in ottdcoop repo)
17:53<TrueBrain>yeah, the Open**X shouldn't be a problem
17:53<TrueBrain>it is just that we need to undo some hacks if we want that :)
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17:53<TrueBrain>eints is not build for 1 project .. it normally shows a list, if I remember correctly
17:53<TrueBrain>but Steam is more of an odd duck
17:53<TrueBrain>but I can put it in our lang format
17:53<TrueBrain>and just once in a while copy it out of there
17:53<+glx>for steam you first need a way to automate stuff on the steam side
17:53<TrueBrain>or maybe Steam has an API
17:54<TrueBrain>it doesn't -need- to be automated, honestly
17:54<+glx>well if you need to copy/paste by hand it's suboptimal ;)
17:54<TrueBrain>but better than no translations!
17:57<+glx>anyway, time to sleep for me :)
17:57<TrueBrain>sleep well!
17:57<TrueBrain>same here :)
17:57<+glx>good night
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18:00<LordAro>TrueBrain: we could just copy all the sfx/gfx/msx/dteam strings into the bottom of english.txt, then copy them whereever before doing a release
18:01<LordAro>not exactly the most automated thing in the world, but would save all the extra infrastructure
18:08<_dp_>meanwhile another starship supposedly launching in about 10 minutes :)
18:08<FLHerne>Supposedly it launched about three hours ago, so we'll see :p
18:15<LordAro>it's doing rather more up this time
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18:25<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenGFX] Andrew350 updated pull request #46: Change: Use a white cursor for better visibility
18:26<TrueBrain>LordAro: my question was about Steam strings, but you and glx keep hijacking it for Open**X :p
18:27<TrueBrain>Don't think they should be in OpenTTD repo :p
18:27<TrueBrain>Loooonnngggg blobs
18:27<+michi_cc>No boom this time :P
18:27<TrueBrain>(See the About the Game on Steam)
18:27<+michi_cc>Booooring... :D
18:30<TrueBrain> in case you don't know the URL
18:32<+michi_cc>I retract my earlier statements.
18:33<TrueBrain>Your fault now michi_cc :p
18:33<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] pelya commented on issue #8799: Memory corruption in 1.11.0-beta2 on Android NDK in multiplayer servers list
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18:35<arikover`>I was wondering: is it possible to change the base sounds with a NewGRF? Other than a new Base set?
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18:51<Eddi|zuHause>i think that's possible, but not sure. newgrfs can include sounds, but i don't know if they can override the existing ones
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19:08<arikover`>Not sure it's doable... Action11 defines new sounds, but don't replace base sounds, it seems.
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19:10<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenGFX] Andrew350 updated pull request #46: Change: Use a white cursor for better visibility
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20:06<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenGFX] Andrew350 opened pull request #58: Fix #49, #51: Correct sprite offsets for toy factory
20:07<Gustavo6046>Time to try FIRS for the first time :o
20:07<Gustavo6046>I mean, "first time" is not entirely precise - I mean first time with FIRS vehicle sets
20:07<Gustavo6046>(in this case 2cc trains, Bob's British Buses cars, and Squid FISH)
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20:25<Gustavo6046>Odd, no freight turcks?
20:34<supermop_Home>my rv set has some trucks
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21:15<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenGFX] Andrew350 updated pull request #58: Fix #49, #51: Correct sprite offsets for toy factory
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21:21-!-Ammler is "Marcel Gmür" on #openttd
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21:22-!-fonsinchen is "Ulf Hermann" on #openttd #/r/openttd
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21:22-!-^Spike^ is "I Don't Care!" on #openttdcoop.nightly #openttd @#myownchannel #coopetition #ceph
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23:03-!-D-HUND is "Wowbagger" on #openttd
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---Logclosed Thu Mar 04 00:00:04 2021