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#openttd IRC Logs for 2021-04-07

---Logopened Wed Apr 07 00:00:52 2021
00:05<reldred>ahhhhh I love this patch
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02:46<andythenorth>yo
02:46<andythenorth>is it done?
02:51<reldred>Not quite, doesn't compile atm but I don't know if that's because it's inherited a bug from upstream that's already been fixed or something.
02:51<reldred>But I am awfully fond of multi-tile depots.
02:52<reldred>I do enjoy playing with it quite a bit
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03:14-!-nielsm is "Niels Martin Hansen" on #openttd
03:31<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh merged pull request #8716: Fix #8713: Change OTTD2FS and FS2OTTD to return string objects https://git.io/Jt9Ha
03:31<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh closed issue #8713: Win32 OTTD2FS/FS2OTTD used from multiple threads but use a static buffer https://git.io/Jt9XE
03:35<@peter1138>Gah, so cold again
03:36<andythenorth>yup
03:37*andythenorth had to wear more clothes
03:42<reldred>It's autumn here now and it's still pretty warm
03:46<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #8952: Social rich presence plugins https://git.io/JYQJS
03:52<@peter1138>We're on a cold snap. Snow and hail in April...
03:55<andythenorth>more coffee vicar?
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04:05<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on issue #8814: Assertion failed downloading content from BaNaNaS. https://git.io/JqTdZ
04:05<@peter1138>Yes, more coffe.
04:05<@peter1138>Also it's 5 minutes past work o'clock.
04:11<nielsm>I'm looking at this NWidget code again and it makes me cry
04:11<nielsm>why is the NWidgetLeaf class implementing 24 different classes
04:17<@peter1138>What are you up to?
04:17<nielsm>that volume slider widget, make it a real widget
04:18<nielsm>and the nested window system is just fighting against any kind of reasonable extensibility
04:20<@peter1138>Not really, it's just designed for what was needed at the time. It shouldn't be too hard to extend NWidgetCore?
04:21<@peter1138>I've got ideas about changing how dimensions are specified and stored.
04:22<@peter1138>So far I've got padding/pip spacing be rescaled when needed, but it's not 100% yet.
04:31<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #8814: Assertion failed downloading content from BaNaNaS. https://git.io/JqTdZ
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04:40<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #8943: Volume controls in Game Options window https://git.io/JYye0
04:42<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #8943: Volume controls in Game Options window https://git.io/JYye0
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04:46<@peter1138>^ And precisely that kinda of change improves my WIP patch...
04:48<nielsm>it'd be nice to have the nested widget part lists changed into some kind of actual nested structure, taking advantage of C++ initializer lists
04:50<nielsm>so you could do e.g.: NWidgetHorizontal({ NWidgetCloseBox(COLOUR_GREY), NWidgetCaption(COLOUR_GREY, STR_WHATEVER_WINDOW_CAPTION) })
04:50<@peter1138>Yes.
04:51<nielsm>and the entire thing results in some kind of factory class instance
04:51<@peter1138>Some checks were not successful
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04:51<@peter1138>8 successful and 4 cancelled checks
04:51<@peter1138>Hmm
04:51<@peter1138>I think that's just the CI though.
04:52<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7441: Feature: Per-group wagon removal flag https://git.io/JYbFR
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04:54<nielsm>looks like the tests on that PR somehow got stuck in the windows builds
04:54<nielsm>killed after 6 hours
04:54<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7441: Feature: Per-group wagon removal flag https://git.io/JYbF1
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04:54<@peter1138>Yeah.
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04:54<@peter1138>Bye bye matrix.
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04:56<LordAro>nielsm: that would be nice, yes
04:58<@peter1138>Drop down lists were meant to be part of some grander plan for genericizing stuff, but it turned out they were a weird special case due to the pop-up "window".
04:59<@peter1138>That's why they are all alone in that directory, lost amongst the headers...
05:00<@peter1138>I guess other than dropdown_widget.h, the dropdown stuff should be in the main directory after all.
05:03<andythenorth>how to explain cargo aging crap in buy menu?
05:03<andythenorth>'Comfort level'?
05:03<reldred>Just call it cargo aging?
05:03<reldred>I'm personally not a fan of inventing new terms for things.
05:04<andythenorth>Well...what are the units?
05:04<andythenorth>'slow', 'fast' etc?
05:04<nielsm>Comfort level: Standing/hard seats/soft seats
05:05<reldred>Well when you're coding the .grf, what are you doing to cargo aging? Is it a bonus? A minus? Percentage based?
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05:05<reldred>Whatever term that is used should be applicable to cargo as well, in-case you go down that route later on.
05:05<reldred>Either in Horse or Hog or whatever.
05:06<andythenorth>I've removed all the cargo aging crap from freight
05:06<reldred>Yeah I know
05:06<reldred>But in case you revisit it later on.
05:06<andythenorth>Nah it's a load of shit
05:06<andythenorth>:D
05:06<reldred>Also keeping in mind you very well may set the standard for terminology/etc that other set authors may copy from.
05:07<andythenorth>seems not
05:07<andythenorth>all this was solved around about 2013
05:07<andythenorth>I thought I was innovating here, but all this is done already in multiple sets
05:08<reldred>Perhaps, but your implementation of your set is probably the most consistent and polished of all the vehicle sets I've used over the last decade and a half.
05:08<andythenorth>https://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=216434
05:08<@peter1138>Is this property 2B?
05:09<andythenorth>yes
05:09<andythenorth>and explaining it to player
05:09<andythenorth>"in words of one sentence"
05:09<@peter1138>So in OpenTTD since 1.2.
05:09<reldred>Let me have a look
05:09<@peter1138>10 years.
05:09<andythenorth>yeah around for a long time
05:10<@peter1138>So it's not really surprising that it's not you innovating by using this attribute :p
05:10<andythenorth>no
05:10<FLHerne>andythenorth: Apparently "yacht transport ship" is a thing? https://gcaptain.com/rescue-underway-for-abandoned-yacht-transport-ship-adrift-off-norway/
05:11<andythenorth>There are better ones than that
05:11<andythenorth>It's a thing to relocate yachts to one end of popular sailing routes
05:11<andythenorth>or between regions
05:11<andythenorth>that one looks a bit...sinky? :)
05:12<andythenorth>https://www.yacht-transport.com/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI-ILXleXr7wIVDIFQBh1tRA3YEAAYASAAEgLc1PD_BwE
05:12<andythenorth>quite cool no? :)
05:12<reldred>I dunno, I'm looking at it and just thinking 'Cargo aging', maybe for your set just use "Very Slow, Slow, Medium (Default), Fast, Very Fast"
05:12<reldred>Define those values however the hell you like.
05:13<andythenorth>what about if we give the vehicle the aging chart for the currently refitted cargo?
05:13*andythenorth not even trolling here
05:13<andythenorth>describing it in words is meaningless
05:13<LordAro>andythenorth: neat. i knew they existed for transporting partially built hulls, but not full ships
05:13<andythenorth>it's not the number of tiles, it's the number of days, and that changes with newgrf
05:14<reldred>I don't think that's too difficult a concept, I mean if you make up a new term for it you then have to explain that term as 'cargo aging rate' anyway, just call it cargo aging.
05:14<Eddi|zuHause>reldred: i'm thinking that description would fall unter "technically correct", but a player wouldn't know what that means
05:14<andythenorth>Or I just skip all this and put 'role'
05:14<andythenorth>Role: short routes
05:14<andythenorth>what is 'short'?
05:14<andythenorth>Role: urban
05:15<andythenorth>Horse Metro already does this actuall
05:15<andythenorth>Role: high capacity urban
05:15<reldred>Eddi|zuHause: you reckon? TrueBrain and I had this argument about terrain generation. I think sometimes people think players are dumber than what they actually are. I think it's *ambiguous terms* that causes issues with players.
05:15<Eddi|zuHause>ticket class: "local", "long distance", "luxury"
05:15<andythenorth>Player then turns up with 2 stations on opposite sides of 128 tile city
05:16<andythenorth>Runs metros, shows I suck
05:16<andythenorth>oh dear
05:16<reldred>Well the problem with roles andy is dickwagon thought 1024 tiles was a reasonable 'commuter' route... LOL
05:16<andythenorth>Ambiguous terms are murder
05:16<andythenorth>Oh wait, no I'm being ambiguous there :P
05:17<andythenorth>The less confusing thing would be:
05:17<andythenorth>Payment bonus: 1.5x
05:17<reldred>I mean if you write anything in that field other than cargo aging, at some point you're going to have to explain that it is cargo aging. May as well just be upfront about it.
05:17<Eddi|zuHause>reldred: just the word "commuter" is already ambiguous enough...
05:17<reldred>I personally still like the 'Suitable for' field
05:17<reldred>That should still stick around
05:17<nielsm>andythenorth: how about just straight up "suitable distance: 20-50 tiles" something like that
05:18<andythenorth>it's not a distance though :)
05:18<andythenorth>otherwise I would
05:18<nielsm>suitable travel time: X days
05:18<reldred>Eddi|zuHause: yeah that's what I'm getting at.
05:18<reldred>Prop 2B is measured in 'ticks' though.
05:18<andythenorth>travel time requires knowing the payment curve set by the newgrf
05:18<andythenorth>guess which FIRS type grf changes the payment curvers for pax?
05:18<andythenorth>curves *
05:19<reldred>But even just 'medium' 'slow' 'very fast' at least gives a point of reference vs. other wagons in your set.
05:19<andythenorth>explaining crap in the buy menu is .... the worst :D
05:19<andythenorth>I've already repainted the fast aging coaches to reduce player confusion
05:19<andythenorth>maybe looking different will help show difference
05:20<reldred>Yeah, looking more distinct is always a good thing anyway.
05:20<andythenorth>Goes it add Horse parameter for cargo aging factor?
05:20<reldred>Not that your sprites were 'bad'
05:20<andythenorth>then player can define what short is
05:21<andythenorth>How many tiles for short route: x
05:21<FLHerne>no
05:21<andythenorth>days not tiles
05:21<reldred>Yeah, define with variables what slow/medium/fast is? then they can't complain LOL
05:21<andythenorth>How many days for short route: x
05:21<andythenorth>How many days for long route: y
05:21<andythenorth>interpolate x and y
05:22<andythenorth>Because Players Definitely Need This Level of Control yes/no?
05:22<reldred>Maybe just go with your gut and define that as the 'medium' setting and then extrapolate from there? I mean as I've said before I've had no problems with 2.21.1
05:22<reldred>On the size maps I play at least.
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05:22<reldred>Which are anywhere from 256x1024 up to 2k x 4k
05:23<andythenorth>Comfort level: LOL
05:23<reldred>I also partially solved the issue for my games by using daylength patch in JGR
05:23<andythenorth>Comfort level: Doge
05:23<andythenorth>I don't even want to think about what daylength does to this payment rate
05:23<Timberwolf>You're way too altruistic. I've broken stuff outright often enough to realise that if you tell players something is happening, they'll find a way to believe it is.
05:23<andythenorth>I don't care about the players :)
05:23<reldred>It's all an illusion *wibbly wobbly hands*
05:23<andythenorth>I care about it being good
05:23<Timberwolf>It's nice if that's based in some mechanic which does influence the thing in question :)
05:24<@peter1138> When you try to clear up confusion and other person just gets more confused >_<
05:24<andythenorth>Generally this is why I don't put much info in buy menu ^ :)
05:24<andythenorth>People turn it into weird post-hoc rationalisations
05:24<reldred>You hit a good sweet spot.
05:24<andythenorth>and rumours
05:25<andythenorth>Mostly the whole set is 'pick train, run train, make money'
05:25<Timberwolf>I wonder if anyone assumes the little vehicle bios I put in have a gameplay effect...
05:25<andythenorth>'if not making money, scrap train, or git gud'
05:25*andythenorth loads timberwolf trains
05:25<reldred>I mean that's why I think you should just be upfront about cargo aging. Whatever units you use is kinda irrelevent so long as the set as a whole uses those units consistently.
05:25<Timberwolf>I'm surprised I've not had any proper foamers complain, "that's blatantly incorrect" (other than a couple of typos)
05:25<andythenorth>Timberwolf I want steep gradients for the 76!
05:25<andythenorth>How do I get steeper gradients!
05:26<andythenorth>2 height levels per tile!
05:26<FLHerne>andythenorth: That's always been the way of OpenTTD
05:26<Timberwolf>I'd say "play Locomotion", but that's only available for narrow gauge.
05:26<reldred>And then just maybe have parameters to /1 /2 /4 /8 or x2 x4 x8 the values afterwards to shut up idiots like dickwagon who want to make a '1k commuter route'.
05:26<FLHerne>Players who *really* care about being optimal RTFM
05:26<andythenorth>Timberwolf the engine sound is not accurate on the 26
05:27<FLHerne>Players who just want to play go by trial-and-error and come up with their own irrational rules of thumb
05:27<andythenorth>this is a good game :)
05:27<reldred>I'm pretty picky when I sit down to build trains for my routes in Horse.
05:27<reldred>Sometimes I pick wrong and it hurts, but that's part of the fun.
05:27<Timberwolf>Agh, I still need to do something with sounds.
05:27<Timberwolf>The Class 450/444 need to make their annoying and stupid noise.
05:27<andythenorth>Timberwolf so I need to only use the class 33 in summer months on pax!
05:28*andythenorth needs complicated timetabling
05:28<FLHerne>Timberwolf: ...have you heard a 700?
05:28<Timberwolf>Which set had proper heating rules? PKP?
05:28<andythenorth>Snail has braking rules
05:28<andythenorth>I haven't tried PKP
05:29<andythenorth>I have considered brake type, and heating type as factors
05:29<andythenorth>brrrrrrrrr
05:29<Timberwolf>Between Trains and Road Vehicles, the vehicle bios represent some 400-odd times I managed to successfully battle the urge to write something silly.
05:29<andythenorth>well done
05:29<@peter1138>Brr indeed.
05:29<Timberwolf>Well, except for "2 horses".
05:29<andythenorth>oh you did the wagons too
05:30<andythenorth>I did not resist silliness, but I kept it short, and docs only https://grf.farm/iron-horse/2.22.0/html/proper_job.html
05:30<Timberwolf>And the horse in a Zorb from Road Vehicles, but if you allow that to turn up in your game you're not exactly expecting a factual description of the real world prototype.
05:30<TrueBrain>someone on Steam is asking if we can add a method to make the GUI bigger; it is too small for his 1080p screen :P
05:31<reldred>tell him to buy glasses
05:31<@peter1138>biggui ;(
05:32<reldred>OOohhh! I crashed 1.11.0!
05:32<reldred>Just changed font size to 2x and it got upset
05:33<Wolf01>Does OpenTTD support VR?
05:33<andythenorth>Timberwolf couldn't resist, it's a very dry silliness :P https://grf.farm/iron-horse/2.22.0/html/stoat.html
05:33<reldred>Huh, now it's fine.
05:33<Timberwolf>Oh, is the Leopard and Foster Bus sounds being swapped an OpenTTD thing or an OpenSFX thing?
05:35<Timberwolf>Oh yes, OpenSFX. This: https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenSFX/commit/d92b939d1c594163bf7b1981a07d4e6ff090d5c3
05:35<LordAro>we did a new release, no?
05:37<Timberwolf>I should check to see if I have the latest, I saw that commit but not sure if the version I have is before or after it.
05:37<LordAro>1.0.1 fixed it, iirc
05:37<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] adamcirillo commented on issue #8963: Black Bars during gameplay https://git.io/JYFCT
05:37<Timberwolf>Ah, cool.
05:38<@peter1138>Bloody Google Nest. It keeps turning my thermostat down because it's Spring...
05:38<LordAro>lol
05:38<@peter1138>When it's 0 outside, 17 feels rather cool inside.
05:39<andythenorth>so should I make a train payment calculator for Iron Horse html docs?
05:39<andythenorth>it would be the most boring version of Train Whack! ever https://grf.farm/iron-horse/2.22.0/html/train_whack.html
05:39<andythenorth>Train Accountant!
05:39<andythenorth>Train Bean Counting!
05:39<@peter1138>reldred, there are some windows that don't scale very well, so depends what you have open at the time.
05:40<Timberwolf>Very important and realism-breaking otherwise.
05:40<andythenorth>Because I always check the cargo payment rate before building a route
05:40<reldred>Eh, Ive had no problems with the 2x scaling of UI and Font on a Surface Go with a small 10" very high DPI panel, or my home desktop with a 3440x1440 panel. And the latter has a similar pixel density to most desktop 1080p panels.
05:40<andythenorth>count the number of tiles on my fingers
05:41<@peter1138>Also, the github actions stuff refers to opengfx 0.6.0, not sure what that affects.
05:41<reldred>andythenorth: bout a few
05:41<andythenorth>I count in binary
05:41<LordAro>peter1138: ?
05:41<andythenorth>when I get to 10, the route requires planes
05:41<reldred>Heh
05:42<@peter1138>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/746f1ca11a18af97e4fed06e5ac1af622bf21d35/.github/workflows/ci-build.yml#L117
05:42<reldred>Gotta say, some days working on nfo I end up counting binary on my fingers...
05:42<Timberwolf>There seems to have been some edict in what eventually became the Leyland empire, that all vehicles produced had to emit more noise from the gearbox than the engine.
05:47<andythenorth>ok so either I call it Cargo Aging: [Very fast | Fast | Normal | Never]
05:47<andythenorth>or Comfort Level: [Very low | Low | Normal | High]
05:48<Timberwolf>When electric cars make fake engine noises there should be a nostalgic option for "transverse-mounted A series". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RevtlwDoOI&t=347s
05:48<andythenorth>this is only for pax cars
05:48<+glx>trying x64-windows-static-md triplet was a good test case, as it fails at link time
05:48<reldred>Just call it cargo aging. You're only going to have to explain to someone later andy that the 'comfort level' is cargo aging so why not just deal with it now.
05:48<andythenorth>all freight wagons have cargo aging 'normal' no exceptions, does the buy menu also need to state 'Carging Aging' to avoid doubt?
05:48<reldred>I'd only state it on the vehicles that need it stated?
05:49<reldred>I'm just thinking about Hog2 or whatever comes down the line.
05:49<andythenorth>Wagons don't state 'Power: 0hp'
05:49<reldred>Exactly
05:49<andythenorth>But what if cabooses affect aging rate?
05:49<andythenorth>or what if players think they might?
05:49*andythenorth inventing fake problems for lulz
05:50<reldred>Refrigerated cars might be the only ones they could think of.
05:50<andythenorth>yeah no
05:50<andythenorth>I removed aging from those
05:50<@peter1138>Timberwolf, I wish I had that much leg room in a car. Especially as small a car as a Metro.
05:50<andythenorth>185 or bust
05:50<reldred>Yeah, I'd only put the cargo aging on the vehicles it applies to.
05:51<reldred>Maybe on the pax ones put aging: normal on the baseline just so people can compare.
05:51<andythenorth>yup
05:51<reldred>And then just state in the manual that cargo aging does not affect cargo wagons job done ship it
05:51<@peter1138>Timberwolf, my first car was a Fiat Uno, 1985 vintage.
05:52<andythenorth>about that Horse manual.... https://grf.farm/iron-horse/2.22.0/html/get_started.html#setting-up :P
05:52<andythenorth>uuf
05:52<+glx>peter1138: still use a '87 citroën visa
05:52<@peter1138>Problem with nostalgia for these old cars is they were actually shit, and very unsafe...
05:52<@peter1138>Nice.
05:53<reldred>lel
05:53<@peter1138>I miss my Citroën Xantia.
05:53<reldred>I love and miss my old Volvo 740 turbo wagon :'(
05:53<@peter1138>reldred, was it you with the tree?
05:53<andythenorth>me never owned a car
05:54<reldred>the tree? the TREE?
05:54<reldred>I've been implicated in various things relating to trees
05:54<reldred>stolen trees, cars crashed into trees,
05:54<reldred>potentially fixing improved trees
05:54<reldred>maybe
05:54<reldred>Haven't stuck my nose in that one yet.
05:55<reldred>I've been pondering generating tropic trees on coast lines...
05:55<@peter1138>Tree hugging hippy crap!
05:55<reldred>I wouldn't say I was ever a tree hugging hippy. Used to go to a lot of hippy psy trance raves and do drugs though.
05:56<@peter1138>The car was tree hugging...
05:57<reldred>Oh yeah. Red one. That hugged a tree alright. Bent like a goddamn banana.
05:58<reldred>How I walked away from that one...
05:58<reldred>No I later on bought a white 740 wagon. With a turbo. Because the red one without a turbo was obviously not enough jandal for me.
05:58<reldred>And I definitely didn't then fit a manual boost controller and dial it up to 12psi
05:59<@peter1138>:D
05:59<+glx>and screenshot crash is fixed
05:59<+glx>let's PR
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06:17<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #7441: Feature: Per-group wagon removal flag https://git.io/JYNkO
06:19<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 opened pull request #8964: Fix: [CMake] Use the right run-time library depending on vcpkg triplet https://git.io/JYNku
06:20<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #8943: Volume controls in Game Options window https://git.io/JYNk6
06:22<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #8943: Volume controls in Game Options window https://git.io/JYNkN
06:22-!-michi_cc_ is now known as michi_cc
06:29<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh merged pull request #8953: Fix: Use FluidSynth default soundfont https://git.io/JYQGl
06:30<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh merged pull request #8948: Fix: Honor default soundfont for FluidSynth https://git.io/JYSRe
06:34<michi_cc>peter1138: Something in #7441 seems to break Windows CI regression, it gets stuck in that step.
06:35<+glx>hmm only thing I can see is the appariting of a message box
06:35<+glx>*apparition
06:36<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc approved pull request #8964: Fix: [CMake] Use the right run-time library depending on vcpkg triplet https://git.io/JYNt0
06:36<+glx>but openttd should not open them if there's no gui
06:36<+glx>so maybe a crash
06:39<@peter1138>Hmm, so Test is breaking... what does Test do.
06:39<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenSFX] FLHerne commented on pull request #41: Fix install location of 'make install' https://git.io/JYNth
06:40<+glx>hmm I seem to be stuck in an infinite loop after clicking on "ok" once bananas download are finished
06:41<+glx>ah it unstuck itself
06:42<@peter1138>11:36 <@DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc approved pull request #8964: Fix: [CMake] Use the right run-time library depending on vcpkg triplet https://git.io/JYNt0
06:42<@peter1138>Oops
06:42<@peter1138>Test not available without configuration. (Missing "-C <config>"?)
06:42<@peter1138>Hmm
06:43<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 closed issue #8814: Assertion failed downloading content from BaNaNaS. https://git.io/JqTdZ
06:43<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 merged pull request #8964: Fix: [CMake] Use the right run-time library depending on vcpkg triplet https://git.io/JYNku
06:44<+glx>peter1138: ctest -C Debug
06:45<+glx>or Release or ReleaseWithDebInfo, depending on the current build type
06:46<@peter1138>100% tests passed, 0 tests failed out of 2
06:46<@peter1138>Total Test time (real) = 20.37 sec
06:46<@peter1138>Takes a while but works. Hmm.
06:46<+glx>yeah it's long if you have many newgrf locally :)
06:47<FLHerne>Hm, I tried to test the OpenMSX one, but music doesn't work for me at all
06:47<FLHerne>It cycles through all the songs very rapidly without making any sound
06:48<FLHerne>(including with OpenMSX from BaNaNaS)
06:48<FLHerne>Am I missing a dep?
06:48<LordAro>FLHerne: timidity, usually
06:48<LordAro>or fluidsynth
06:48<LordAro>(and associated soundfont)
06:49<michi_cc>peter1138: It's entirely possible that something on the GitHub side is fucked up, I just noticed it getting stuck in that step.
06:50<+glx>I cancelled workflow
06:50<@peter1138>Oof, turns out if you forget WHERE in your SQL statement, and have joins, the conditions are ... a bit different :-)
06:50<+glx>no need to eat github ressources
06:51<+glx>Test project D:/a/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/build
06:51<+glx> Start 1: regression_regression
06:51<+glx>1/2 Test #1: regression_regression ............ Passed 26.75 sec
06:51<+glx> Start 2: regression_stationlist
06:51<+glx>ah it's stuck in station list regression
06:52<+glx>but that's all I could get from github
06:53<FLHerne>soundfonts take a while to download at 100kb/s :-(
06:53<@peter1138>...
06:54<@peter1138>Do you think if I tested with the correct branch it might be more representative?
06:54<+glx>hmm and regression fails for me
06:56<+glx>ok I get a crash window for station list
06:57<andythenorth>is naptime?
06:57<+glx>regression fails because notperfectai versioning is broken
06:57<+glx>ERROR: Registering two scripts with the same name and version
06:57<+glx>ERROR: 1: notperfectai-1.3\main.nut
06:57<+glx>ERROR: 2: notperfectai-1.5\main.nut
06:58<michi_cc>Maybe some kind of compile flag that forces a text output of the crashlog with no dialog would be good for regression.
06:58<+glx>well that's my local error
06:58<+glx>not the github fail
07:00<@peter1138>Passes both tests for me.
07:01<+glx>will need to attach to debugger, but it's time to eat :)
07:01<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenMSX] FLHerne commented on pull request #20: Fix install location of 'make install' https://git.io/JYNOn
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07:02<FLHerne>Can someone approve OpenSFX#14 and OpenMSX#20? I'm not in that group, but I've tested them and they work
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07:08<andythenorth>is it lunch already?
07:08<LordAro>andythenorth: yes
07:09<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenSFX] LordAro approved pull request #41: Fix install location of 'make install' https://git.io/JYN36
07:10<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenMSX] LordAro approved pull request #20: Fix install location of 'make install' https://git.io/JYN3S
07:10<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenSFX] LordAro merged pull request #41: Fix install location of 'make install' https://git.io/JY6sf
07:10<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenMSX] LordAro merged pull request #20: Fix install location of 'make install' https://git.io/JY6sV
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07:13<andythenorth>lol 'return 0;'
07:13<andythenorth>I made restaurant cars just eliminate run costs for pax coaches
07:13<andythenorth>can't be arsed to test balancing some specific %
07:13<andythenorth>specific % can just be 100%
07:15<andythenorth>train is gonna make £300k / year anyway
07:15<andythenorth>this saves £10k in running costs
07:15<andythenorth>hardly touches
07:16<nielsm>does the restaurant car have running costs in itself?
07:16<andythenorth>yup
07:17<andythenorth>conveniently the run cost is about 4x the cost of a pax coach
07:17*andythenorth such silly balancing
07:17<nielsm>well, so it kind of makes sense on trains with 2 or more passenger cars
07:17<andythenorth>payment rate multiplier anyone? o_O
07:17<nielsm>3 or more I guess?
07:17<andythenorth>about 3
07:17<andythenorth>or 4
07:18<andythenorth>ideally I'd just give it 50% of the capacity and 200% of the payment rate
07:18<andythenorth>and not touch the other vehicles
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07:18<andythenorth>then there's none of this balancing crap
07:18<nielsm>make the restaurant car carry 4 passengers and make them load really slowly, and not refittable
07:18<andythenorth>it's just 'here, have restaurant car'
07:18<andythenorth>but eh
07:19<andythenorth>I couldn't figure out how to resolve the vehicle from VehicleCargoList so I couldn't patch a multiplier
07:19<andythenorth>it would be much simpler to just have 'premium trains' and 'crap trains'
07:19<andythenorth>and vary ticket price
07:20<nielsm>short, medium and long distance passengers as distinct cargo types
07:20<nielsm>short distance will not pay fare for destinations outside their own town
07:21<nielsm>medium will only pay fare for destinations outside their own town, but at most half a map size away
07:21<nielsm>long needs to travel at least half the map
07:22<andythenorth>I proposed splitting pax cargos and frosch ran away from the channel
07:22<andythenorth>I was trolling at the time
07:22<andythenorth>but maybe it's a thing
07:22<andythenorth>like yacd, but without the overhead
07:22<andythenorth>_probably a silly idea_
07:22<FLHerne>something something Tourists
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07:23<andythenorth>something something
07:23<andythenorth>cargo subtypes!
07:25*andythenorth goes it remove cargo aging effect from restaurant car?
07:25<andythenorth>yes it goes
07:25<andythenorth>one less thing to explain
07:25<nielsm>also long distance passengers are only accepted by hotels
07:25<andythenorth>so much gameplay
07:26<andythenorth>but we need individual seats in vehicles to be refittable for this
07:26<andythenorth>as long distance and short can use same bus
07:26<andythenorth>for part of journey
07:26<andythenorth>cargo subtypes!
07:28<andythenorth>New Cargo Subtypes
07:28<andythenorth>cargo packet has a subtype :P
07:32<@peter1138>sub cargo sub type sub types
07:34<andythenorth>yes
07:34<andythenorth>exactly
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07:40<andythenorth>wait, it was lunch
07:40*andythenorth wasting time making grfs
07:42<@peter1138>I've got a sandwich thin with jam on it, old school style.
07:42<@peter1138>Run out of salad.
07:42<@peter1138>I should send my partner out to the supermarket...
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07:43<andythenorth>hmm Salt n Pepa
07:43<andythenorth>they're not exactly Neneh Cherry are they
07:44*andythenorth random play
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07:46<andythenorth>1 egg or 2 for scrambled?
07:46<andythenorth>toast is not very big
07:46<andythenorth>1
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07:52<@peter1138>Why did I not think of egg? :(
07:53<andythenorth>because there is only one thought of egg
07:53<andythenorth>and I was using it
07:53<andythenorth>I had it locked
07:53<andythenorth>however I am now done with it
07:54<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/team] brunodelara-cloudcrm opened issue #186: [pt_BR] Translator access request https://git.io/JYNWY
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08:08<andythenorth>quak it's snail_UES_
08:08<snail_UES_>good morning :)
08:10<andythenorth>so how to game mechanic for motorail?
08:10<andythenorth>just put pax capacity on the motorail wagons?
08:11<@peter1138>Urgh, why do I feel unwell.
08:11<@peter1138>Maybe it's a sugar rush from bread, jam & then a bit of chocolate.
08:12<andythenorth>plausible
08:12<andythenorth>or too much coffee
08:12<andythenorth>or not enough
08:14<@peter1138>I love that if you have a file open in Excel, you can't say, send a copy or upload it. Because it's open.
08:15<LordAro>i don't think that's exclusive to excel
08:15<LordAro>though excel has its own set up weirdnesses about open files
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08:24<Timberwolf>My favourite is that the root object for the scripting language is based on the filename (without path), so you can't open two files with the same name.
08:25<LordAro>ah yes, that's a classic
08:25<@peter1138>Yup
08:26<andythenorth>I can't be bothered to do forum reply, but McZapkie's experience with slow 4k map mirrors what the mac client is doing with 4k maps
08:27<andythenorth>is it new though, really?
08:27*andythenorth tests
08:27*andythenorth tries to ffwd world-gen, oops fails
08:27<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7441: Feature: Per-group wagon removal flag https://git.io/JYNR1
08:28<+glx>debugging done peter1138 ;)
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08:29<andythenorth>mac client performance is ~same with 4k for 1.10 and 1.11
08:29<@peter1138>That is... odd. Whatever happened to compile time checks. :/
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08:30<LordAro>that is a bit odd
08:35<+glx>hmm but we disabled this kind of messages
08:36<LordAro>cmake changes somehow?
08:36<+glx>no it's done in c++
08:36<+glx>if defined(_MSC_VER)
08:36<+glx> /* Don't show abort message as we will get the crashlog window anyway. */
08:36<+glx> _set_abort_behavior(0, _WRITE_ABORT_MSG);
08:36<+glx>#endif
08:36<+glx>unless it's a different kind
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08:40<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7441: Feature: Per-group wagon removal flag https://git.io/JYNEb
08:42<TrueBrain>lol ... if the network protocol tries to read a byte outside the size of the packet, it returns 0
08:42<TrueBrain>not an error, as 0 could also be a valid value
08:42<TrueBrain>so there is no way to know this from the caller :D
08:42<TrueBrain>haha
08:43<+glx>ok seems to be a different kind and not catchable
08:44<TrueBrain>owh, and also when the server is already disconnected, it doesn't allow reading the current packet anymore
08:44<TrueBrain>explains the errors peter1138 was seeing yesterday
08:45<TrueBrain>"here is a valid packet; owh, the socket is disconnected YOU CANNOT READ IT NOW MWHAHAHAHAHA"
08:45<TrueBrain>such evilness
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08:48<@peter1138>So I need to get into the habit of calling ctest, I guess.
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08:48<@peter1138>... I have just noticed there's a button for it in VS Code... sigh.
08:49<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7441: Feature: Per-group wagon removal flag https://git.io/fjkJl
08:50<TrueBrain>its like it is a standard :P
08:50<@peter1138>Well, the cmake integration doesn't exactly work the same was as other run/build/test in VS Code, so...
08:52<@peter1138>Maybe there's a launch.sj
08:52<@peter1138>...
08:52<@peter1138>launch.json that works
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09:19<Timberwolf>Hmm... I'm not normally one to go promoting my own stuff, but a thread of "mods to start at 1700" where most of the suggestions are, "this vehicle set starts in 1920" is almost like someone set up a topic to deliberately annoy me if I don't post, "er yeah, hey, I made some things for that"
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09:25<TrueBrain>getaddrinfo for hostname "", port 45206, address family either IPv4 or IPv6 and socket type tcp failed: Name or service not known
09:25<TrueBrain>how strange :P
09:33<@peter1138>https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=88727 Hmm welll
09:35<TrueBrain>took him 2 days to find the wrong place to report it :D
09:37<LordAro>2 days? that crash log was generated 2 minutes before the post
09:38<TrueBrain>ah, I did not check that :P
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09:38<TrueBrain>so let me rephrase: took us 2 days to find he reported in the wrong place :P
09:38<LordAro>ah, yes
09:38<@peter1138>Hmm. Who owns a bridge?
09:39<supermop_Home__>me
09:39<@peter1138>I've got a bridge over water between two towns, and the owner of each end is of course the nearest town for that end...
09:39<reldred>The bridge does not exist. It is a magical portal.
09:40*reldred wibbly wobbly hands
09:40<andythenorth>oh dear :( https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1243455#p1243455
09:40<andythenorth>reality hits convention
09:41<andythenorth>oof
09:44<@peter1138>nielsm, deep oceans pls
09:44<reldred>deep oceans pls
09:45<reldred>More landgen stuff. MORE.
09:45<@peter1138>Just clearing up some trolling :p
09:46<andythenorth>so which mod is the supported one?
09:46<andythenorth>one mod
09:46<Timberwolf>egvrts, naturally.
09:47*andythenorth shouldn't be naught, what the post shows is how confusing the mods are :)
09:47<andythenorth>naughty *
09:47<@peter1138>Aw, run out of money.
09:47*andythenorth misses discord edit feature here
09:47<andythenorth>irc twilight I think
09:47<andythenorth>if Microsoft don't buy Discord and make a business version, work will have to switch from irc to Slack
09:47<andythenorth>that's oof
09:48<Timberwolf>I think also the problem of, "this mod hasn't been touched in years but it has sensible cargo classes and defaults, so works fine" vs. "this mod was abandoned recently but it's already broken for several industry sets"
09:48<andythenorth>oh this again
09:48<andythenorth>https://steamcommunity.com/app/1536610/discussions/0/3171072251340566293/
09:51<TrueBrain>[2021-04-07 15:50:43] dbg: [net] Auto-restarting map. Year 1951 reached
09:51<TrueBrain>having random settings is funny :P
09:51<andythenorth>peter1138 ctrl-alt-c
09:51<@peter1138>I'll just steal money from another player
09:52<LordAro>https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1243450#p1243450 found andy's sockpuppet
09:52<@peter1138>Can you give money via rcon?
09:59<supermop_Home__>andythenorth i think currently horse fails the criterion of 'supported by its developer'
10:00<reldred>ooof, rude :P
10:14<@peter1138>Hmm, feels like aBase on the intro screen struggles.
10:16<andythenorth>if I had a sock puppet
10:16<andythenorth>it would say 'please add a cargo payment multiplier to newgrf vehicles'
10:16<andythenorth>campaigning for FIRS in base game seems like shooting myself in head :P
10:19<supermop_Home__>andythenorth then firs is no longer your problem to maintain
10:19<andythenorth>you think it works that way? :)
10:19<andythenorth>pls send me newsletter
10:19<supermop_Home__>it does if you get it in the game then run away to north sentinel island
10:20<supermop_Home__>then nothing in the game is your problem anymore?
10:35<andythenorth>Timberwolf please add realistic liveries :)
10:36*andythenorth wants to see NSE in voxel
10:36<andythenorth>or my sock puppet does https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=87283&start=300
10:36<Timberwolf>I wonder how much horror is needed to make the vehicles use a fixed 2cc recolour rather than the player one.
10:37<andythenorth>do you want to know?
10:37<andythenorth>I actually know the answer to that
10:37<andythenorth>you'll want a code generator
10:37<Timberwolf>Heh.
10:37<Timberwolf>My suspicion is, "relatively easy to do conceptually with a template-based approach, but you have done this and now it's not"
10:38<andythenorth>no it's relatively easy
10:38<andythenorth>just a bit brain-bending
10:38<Timberwolf>Yeah, I think the limitation would be "how have I implemented things" not "is it easy to write the NML"
10:39<andythenorth>palette_2cc(company_colour1, COLOUR_WHITE) etc is quite easy I think
10:39<andythenorth>and the logic to get there is easy enough
10:39<andythenorth>I made it harder by providing random darker of lighter shades of each company colour
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10:41<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep commented on pull request #8480: Feature: Multitile depots https://git.io/JYN5J
10:41<TrueBrain>peter1138: I have build a new better version (at least I hope) .. if you have some time to test again, I would love to see if it works this time :D
10:43<TrueBrain>I also created boilerplate to allow clients to accept(), instead of only the server .. meaning that if the NAT in one direction fails, it can try it in the other direction too :D
10:43<TrueBrain>but that is not finished yet, as I first want to know if this resolves the issue I had with peter1138 yesterday :)
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10:53<FLHerne>TrueBrain: I can see if it works for my ISP [Virgin Media] if you tell me which buttons to press
10:54<TrueBrain>can you compile yourself?
10:55<FLHerne>Yes
10:55<TrueBrain>https://github.com/TrueBrain/OpenTTD/tree/stun-me <- clone and name the branch "stun-me" locally
10:55<TrueBrain>compile and start a multiplayer server
10:55<TrueBrain>and I will see if I can join it :D
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10:57<@peter1138>See if you have a decent router or one that TrueBrain can 'hack' :-)
10:58<FLHerne>heh
10:58<TrueBrain>peter1138: :D
10:58<TrueBrain>its crazy to realise most VOIP phones do this
10:58<@peter1138>I knew of STUN but I'd not ever looked at what was actually involved.
10:58<TrueBrain>me neither
10:59<TrueBrain>I am also still really surprised it works
11:00<TrueBrain>I expected more routers to validate SYN sequence numbers
11:00<TrueBrain>but clearly it is easier to only check source/dest pairs :P
11:00<FLHerne>Well, at this point fixing it would piss everyone off
11:00<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler opened pull request #8966: Feature: News/advice setting to warn if no depot order in vehicle schedule https://git.io/JYNbo
11:00<TrueBrain>it is also not so much "broken"
11:01<TrueBrain>as in, I cannot see a real security issue with it
11:01<TrueBrain>2 sides make an outgoing connection to each other
11:01<TrueBrain>so it makes sense that those 2 peers should be able to talk to each other
11:02<andythenorth>encore Warcraft 1?
11:02*andythenorth took a week off to do grf
11:02<andythenorth>so naturally I'm not doing it
11:03<@peter1138>Silly sausage.
11:05<@peter1138>Hmm, there is a vcpkg for miniupnpc, but not libnatpmp
11:06<@peter1138>If miniupnpc can to NAT-PMP, that would be a better choice as it's maintained. libnatpmp isn't.
11:10<@peter1138>Haha, network nerds are like "UPNP can f right off"
11:10<TrueBrain>anyway, let me know if you have some time to test again peter1138 ; this should give less weird errors at least :P
11:11<TrueBrain>Network code is so hard to understand ... Templatest classes with static functions that fill static class members of the one defining the template
11:11<TrueBrain>really, impossible to follow :P
11:11<@peter1138>In around an hour I can play.
11:12<TrueBrain>sweet
11:14<FLHerne>TrueBrain: server is 'Lemon 12' on 86.10.122.80
11:14<FLHerne>also advertised
11:14<FLHerne>password is 12345
11:14<TrueBrain>funny enough, thename, IP and advertisement is all irrelevant :P
11:14<FLHerne>(the same as on my luggage!)
11:14<TrueBrain>all that is important is the lobby ID :)
11:14<TrueBrain>which is "1" for your server :P
11:14<TrueBrain>and I won't be able to join, as the branch-name is not set on your end, but let me try if the connection can be set up anyway :)
11:14<FLHerne>"Your join-key: 1"
11:14<FLHerne>yes, that
11:15<TrueBrain>its not punshing through :'(
11:15<@peter1138>Turns out that TrueBrain made this mega cool system that only works on his own router...
11:15<TrueBrain>peter1138: haha, no, I have more people for who it works :D
11:15<TrueBrain>I tested it before I build it :P
11:16<@peter1138>Network nerds really are anti-UPNP. How dare something make it easy for users to do things...
11:16<TrueBrain>I really need to make a simple application that gathers debug information about this :P
11:16<TrueBrain>peter1138: security vs user-friendlyness ..
11:16<@peter1138>(I do understand it's a security risk, but still...)
11:16<TrueBrain>an endless unwinning fight :D
11:16<FLHerne>One moment, I rebuilt it with hopefully the right branch name
11:16<TrueBrain>the most friendly system has no security in place :)
11:17<TrueBrain>FLHerne: and please start with "-dnet=1" and I would like to see your logs afterwards :)
11:18<@peter1138>"just put them on public IPs and don't NAT" ooh yeah, we should do that
11:19<FLHerne>My join key is 2 this time
11:19<TrueBrain>yeah .. branch name still isn't correct, but that is okay :P I can't connect anyway :D
11:19<TrueBrain>can you gist me your logs?
11:21<FLHerne>https://dpaste.org/AmVa
11:21<TrueBrain>weird part about this all, I am behind 3 NATs :P And I can punch a hole :P
11:21<FLHerne>see also branch name in prompt :p
11:21<TrueBrain>'20210407--g40190a5ebf" is your revision the game says
11:21<TrueBrain>also shows like that in the main menu :)
11:21<FLHerne>Oh, stupid, I forgot to actually check out the new branch :p
11:22<TrueBrain>seems everything went as it should
11:22<TrueBrain>so I need tcpdumps :P But I am sure peter1138 can help me with that tonight :D
11:22<FLHerne>Yeah, now it's better
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11:23<TrueBrain>if you like, start the game with "-n 3"
11:23<FLHerne>Well, I can install tcpdump
11:23<TrueBrain>if you know how to use it, would be lovely
11:24<FLHerne>output looks better
11:24<FLHerne>I don't now, but I can read the manpage
11:24<FLHerne>Of course, half of manpages are inscrutable line noise
11:24<TrueBrain>tcpdump -i eth -n host <myip> and port not 12121 and port not 12122
11:24<TrueBrain>or something
11:24<TrueBrain>but as you can see, you can just connect to me without issue :)
11:25<@peter1138>This is where truebrain forgets he set up is test platform as the DMZ host...
11:25<TrueBrain>people that live nearby me had no issue connecting, so I am still not sure if it is a latency issue
11:25<TrueBrain>or that I am doing something wrong
11:25<TrueBrain>or this just doesn't work for most NATs :P
11:26<FLHerne>Output from that run https://dpaste.org/jS7g
11:26<TrueBrain>but I have an ISP NAT, Unify NAT, and WSL2 NAT .. and it punches through without issue
11:29<TrueBrain>got any output from tcpdump?
11:31<FLHerne>Is there a list of ports I *should* be listening to? Trying to blacklist them is just telling me how many random network-connected applications are running on here :p
11:32<TrueBrain>tcpdump -i eth -n net 62.251.50.124 and port not 12121 and port not 12122
11:32<TrueBrain>should filter out any other traffic
11:32<nielsm>TrueBrain: I'll try to make a build and connect
11:32<nielsm>if you have it running
11:32<TrueBrain>yup
11:33<TrueBrain>and it now supports infinite amounts of servers
11:33<TrueBrain>so please :)
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11:34<nielsm>so how are you supposed to connect?
11:34<TrueBrain>create a network game
11:34<TrueBrain>I will see the lobby being created and try to join it :)
11:35<FLHerne>https://dpaste.org/M0cq
11:35<TrueBrain>tnx FLHerne
11:35<TrueBrain>you have the simplist form of NAT, so hmm ..
11:36<TrueBrain>nielsm: it was hanging at "Authorizing"
11:36<TrueBrain>it is doing something
11:36<TrueBrain>just really slow?
11:37<nielsm>I'm in game playing
11:37<TrueBrain>that is a completely different problem :D
11:37<TrueBrain>bidirectional communication is established
11:37<TrueBrain>but ... for some reason really slow? I dunno :P
11:37<FLHerne>So am I, fwiw
11:37<TrueBrain>I receive the network revision
11:38<TrueBrain>FLHerne: you are ingame, or what do you mean?
11:38<FLHerne>Yes
11:38<TrueBrain>so the inability to join is an issue on my side? :P
11:38<FLHerne>I saw "that is a completely different problem" and wondered if I'm not supposed to be
11:38<nielsm>trying a new game
11:38<nielsm>running with debuglevel net=3 now
11:39<TrueBrain>FLHerne: what happens if you host a game and nielsm tries to join it?
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11:40<FLHerne>I think I phrased that confusingly, please ignore everything I said :p
11:40<TrueBrain>nevertheless, I would like to know if nielsm can connect to FLHerne :)
11:42<TrueBrain>surprised nielsm is not kicked for flooding :P
11:42<TrueBrain>sorry :D And tnx nielsm
11:42<TrueBrain>nielsm: can you join lobby 3?
11:42<FLHerne>I have started a server
11:42<FLHerne>just with `openttd -dnet=1`
11:42<TrueBrain>(starting openttd with "-n 3")
11:42<FLHerne>I can add the `-n 3` again if you wanted me to
11:43<TrueBrain>no FLHerne
11:43<TrueBrain>you host server
11:43<TrueBrain>nielsm tries to join
11:43<TrueBrain>-n joins a server :)
11:43<FLHerne>Ok
11:43<TrueBrain>ugh, Game Coordinator crashed :P
11:43<TrueBrain>I wrote ugly code
11:43<TrueBrain>nielsm: lobby 1 now :)
11:43<FLHerne>And yes, it does say join-key: 3
11:43<FLHerne>and now 1
11:43<TrueBrain>hmm .. crash again .. oops
11:43<TrueBrain>owh well, it recovered
11:43<FLHerne>clearly you're spying on me
11:44<TrueBrain>I see the logs from the game coordinator, yes :)
11:44<TrueBrain>and, did that work?
11:44<FLHerne>Nothing happened, so I assume not
11:44<TrueBrain>bah .. was worth a shot :D
11:44<FLHerne>tcpdump output is as before
11:45<TrueBrain>yeah, that is expected
11:45<TrueBrain>and tcpdump is not going to give more info at this point
11:45<TrueBrain>I needed to know if I did the binding correct, and I did
11:45<TrueBrain>some something else is going on
11:45<TrueBrain>I need to write a test-tool to see what your NATs are doing
11:45<nielsm>I think maybe I had windows firewall blocking before
11:46<TrueBrain>start a new server and we can find out :)
11:46<FLHerne>https://dpaste.org/LvaW
11:46<nielsm>started a server now
11:46<FLHerne>what number?
11:46<nielsm>2
11:46<TrueBrain>nielsm: still same issue .. there is a connection, but it has a lot of packetloss and is dropped after a while
11:47<FLHerne>It's hung up at 2/6 Authorising for me
11:47<FLHerne>now dropped
11:47<TrueBrain>yeah .. so you too
11:47<TrueBrain>there is a connection, just something is conflicting
11:47<TrueBrain>nielsm: what OS are you on?
11:48<nielsm>win10
11:48<TrueBrain>k, tnx both for testing :)
11:48<TrueBrain>I have some more puzzling to do
11:48<nielsm>and I think I have double NAT actually
11:48<nielsm>I forget if I set my ISP's router/modem to passthrough or not
11:49<nielsm>yeah it's two layers of NAT
11:50<TrueBrain>yeah, I have a similar setup
11:50<nielsm>uh... try if you can connect directly to my IP on 3979
11:50<nielsm>because I think I actually have a regular port forward set up
11:51<TrueBrain>UDP at least is not responding
11:51<nielsm>only TCP forward set up
11:51<TrueBrain>yeah, and -n doesn't allow IP-based joining atm :D
11:51<TrueBrain>I had to hack it in somewhere :P
11:52<TrueBrain>no reply over TCP either
11:57<TrueBrain>FLHerne: looking at your tcpdump there is one interesting thing there .. for some reason there is an ICMP packet there .. let me see what that is about ..
11:58<TrueBrain>ugh, we should just do TURN and make people pay for it :P Done :D
11:59<TrueBrain>well, worst case, nielsm , I have some groundwork for when the protocol is fully UDP :P :P
11:59<TrueBrain>now first,dinner time
12:01<nielsm>I checked both my routers now and they definitely are set up right...
12:01<nielsm>...no they are not
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12:05<@peter1138>Ok, building stun-me
12:05-!-EER [~EER@87.213.99.78] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:06<@peter1138>And running
12:06<@peter1138>4 ;D
12:07<@peter1138>Urgh, newgrfs
12:07<nielsm>trying to connect to you, reached step 2 now
12:07<TrueBrain>same
12:07<TrueBrain>that is more than yesterday :P
12:07<@peter1138>Ok. Crashed.
12:07<TrueBrain>right, dinner ... :P
12:08<@peter1138>assert(sockets.size() == 0);
12:08<nielsm>trying to host again on my end, 5
12:09<nielsm>and I also fixed my port forwards/DHCP reservations so port forwards should work for me again
12:09<@peter1138>If that works then this test is irrelevant :)
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12:10<@peter1138>Waiting for TB to try :p
12:15<TrueBrain>joining via lobbies doesn't use any portforward setup :P
12:15<TrueBrain>omg peter1138
12:15<TrueBrain>wtf is this
12:16<TrueBrain>world smallest island
12:16<TrueBrain>let me try connecting a few more times
12:16<@peter1138>setford is good
12:16<TrueBrain>takes a bit of time before it works
12:16<@peter1138>That's better than not working, right?
12:16<TrueBrain>absolutely
12:17<TrueBrain>but also makes me wonder why that is :D
12:17<TrueBrain>first connect fails
12:17<TrueBrain>second works
12:17<TrueBrain>timing issue :)
12:17<TrueBrain>quick, nielsm / FLHerne , join lobby 6!
12:17<TrueBrain>okay, so my work of today was useful :P
12:18<FLHerne>2/6
12:18<FLHerne>4/6 downloading
12:18<FLHerne>disconnected
12:18<TrueBrain>protocol error
12:18<TrueBrain>lol
12:18<FLHerne>I connected, and saw your 'welcome' message
12:18<FLHerne>Then protocol error, yes
12:18<FLHerne>Well, there was a hang
12:19<nielsm>authorising...
12:19<FLHerne>I got to 4/6, then "last 5 seconds no message from server", then joined
12:20<TrueBrain>okay .. I think that is all latency related
12:20<TrueBrain>I have some idea what I can do about that
12:20<TrueBrain>but first, eating the dinner :D
12:20<TrueBrain>tnx all!
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12:33<frosch123>TrueBrain: do you need more stunning?
12:33<frosch123>my new router also has no option to configure port forwarding :p
12:36<andythenorth>oof warcraft 1 ate my afternoon
12:36<andythenorth>how did that happen then?
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12:37<frosch123>wow, i cannot even join my own server :p
12:44<nielsm>hm random idea, make vehicles count how many times they have cycled through their orders list
12:45<nielsm>that both gives a fun stat to look at, and could also allow conditional orders of the type "every Nth time, do X"
12:45<andythenorth>expiring trains?
12:45<andythenorth>like battery charge cycles
12:45<andythenorth>10 loops of the route, and it self-scraps
12:46<frosch123>nielsm: did you try jgr's programmable signals and orders?
12:46<frosch123>i would not be surprised if they have registers and state
12:47<nielsm>only read about them
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12:59<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] RiseOfDeath opened issue #8967: Game crash during startup https://git.io/JYAmd
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13:05<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep commented on pull request #8480: Feature: Multitile depots https://git.io/JYAYa
13:06<TrueBrain>frosch123: it is not uncommon that routers don't allow connecting to their own public IP
13:07<TrueBrain>at least I can join .. that is, if this is your server I am on :P :P
13:07<milek7>that's mine :P
13:07<TrueBrain>fair :P
13:07<TrueBrain>hard to tell :)
13:07<TrueBrain>a coal line, tssk
13:08<TrueBrain>and a server with a password
13:08<TrueBrain>eeuuuhhhhh
13:08<frosch123>123
13:08<frosch123>i see you
13:08<TrueBrain>so it "mostly" works :P
13:08<frosch123>though it's weird that you appear in the client list before entering the pw
13:08<TrueBrain>the whole password thing is done in such a weird moment/wy
13:09<TrueBrain>we should really address that honestly
13:09<frosch123>it says you joined via ipv4
13:09<TrueBrain>yeah, this whole stuff atm is IPv4 only
13:10<frosch123>ah, ok
13:10<TrueBrain>mainly as the STUN server is IPv4 only :)
13:11<TrueBrain>was reading some other people who did similar things
13:11<TrueBrain>their summary is constant: there is a chance this works
13:11<TrueBrain>and a chance it doesn't :P
13:13<TrueBrain>another trick that seems to work .. just send connect() to each other .. lets see how stable that is
13:16<TrueBrain>but the server assumes in more than one place it goes via accept() :P Lets see ...
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13:17<TrueBrain>that surprisingly works
13:18<nielsm>got a new version I can try out?
13:18<TrueBrain>pushing now
13:18<TrueBrain>done
13:18<TrueBrain>its an interesting idea .. 2 TCP sockets with connect() to each other will also establish a two-way stream
13:19<TrueBrain>bypassing the whole need to do the accept() dance
13:19<nielsm>you just need to know the source and destination port for both ends in advance
13:19<TrueBrain>strictly seen it violates TCP specs, but most OS stacks appear to fix it
13:20<TrueBrain>it works better, as there is no FIN on the line
13:20<TrueBrain>which seems to be the issue
13:20<TrueBrain>I love to see that nielsm also made a 64x64 map :P
13:20<TrueBrain>or 128?
13:21<TrueBrain>128 ..
13:21<TrueBrain>I should learn to count :D
13:21<TrueBrain>right ... peter1138 / FLHerne up for another round of testing? :D
13:21<FLHerne>well ok
13:22<TrueBrain>hell, even if it works only for 50% of the people, it is a huge increase in people that do not have to fiddle with their router :P
13:22<TrueBrain>the other suggestion solution is to leave the TCP connection to the STUN intact for the duration of the session
13:22<TrueBrain>just idle
13:22<TrueBrain>so NATs don't close the entry
13:22<TrueBrain>but if we can avoid that, that would be lovely :P
13:22<@peter1138>Building
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13:24<TrueBrain>peter1138: flawless :D
13:24<TrueBrain>so 3 / 3 so far
13:25<nielsm>anyone I can try joining?
13:25<@peter1138>Yeah
13:25<@peter1138>So, er, how does it work?
13:25<TrueBrain>peter1138: what part? The TCP part?
13:26<TrueBrain>or the lobby part?
13:26<FLHerne>I just started one, it's 3
13:26<TrueBrain>so FLHerne 's makes 3 / 4 :P
13:26<FLHerne>exited
13:26<FLHerne>"the server didn't answer the request, red dialog"
13:26<FLHerne>move quote
13:27<@peter1138>I got the same. Just sat there, my own server closed on me :p
13:28<TrueBrain>you don't like that? Awh :P
13:28<@peter1138>Shit he's remote controlling my PC
13:29<TrueBrain>the network code really assumes the server gets connections via accept(), so I guess something is acting up there
13:30<TrueBrain>FLHerne: can you start your server again, just to see it wasn't an accident?
13:30<FLHerne>same again
13:30<FLHerne>six seconds after worldgen finished
13:31<TrueBrain>most likely the moment I connect
13:31<TrueBrain>restart and I will not connect
13:31<TrueBrain>milek7's works fine too .. so that makes 4 out of 5
13:31<FLHerne>ok so far
13:31<TrueBrain>let me connect
13:31<FLHerne>Didn't peter1138 say he got the same?
13:32<FLHerne>exited
13:32<TrueBrain>FLHerne: I know what is causing yours
13:32<TrueBrain>basically, something on your machine is not allowing the outgoing connection as requested
13:32<TrueBrain>so the connect() fails
13:32<FLHerne>I'm not running ufw at the moment
13:32<TrueBrain>(and I did not write the code yet to handle the failure case correct in case you are a server :P)
13:33<FLHerne>What port does it want?
13:33<TrueBrain>ports are dynamic
13:33<nielsm>it uses random ports every time
13:33<FLHerne>Hm
13:33<TrueBrain>but tcpdump also showed an ICMP drop
13:33<TrueBrain>for some reason, after binding, it is not allowing the outgoing packet to go
13:33<FLHerne>And while I have various things using different ports, it's unlikely to hit used ones by chance :p
13:34<TrueBrain>I have seen that on one of the test machines I have access to too
13:34<TrueBrain>0 chance, the kernel finds a free one
13:34<FLHerne>nifty
13:34<nielsm>well if you have multiple machines on the network depending on the NAT implementation maybe it will remap the outgoing port number
13:34<FLHerne>(this is on Linux 5.11.8, fwiw)
13:34<TrueBrain>I think this happens because it rebinds on the same socket
13:35<TrueBrain>so basically, the first connection goes from A to B. Then we try a connect from A to C, and it says: NOPE I DO NOT KNOW HOW TO ROUTE TO C
13:35<TrueBrain>while D to C does work
13:36<TrueBrain>not completely sure how/why/what is going on there
13:36<TrueBrain>(where A, B, C and D are (ip:port) pairs)
13:37<@peter1138>Hmm, maybe I should get a takeaway
13:40<TrueBrain>oof, and I really need to do something about the connect() timeout .. guess that is also what frosch123 was having issues with over IPv6 :P It takes 30+ seconds before connect() times out :D
13:41<TrueBrain>FLHerne: I pushed a new version; mind trying this?
13:41<TrueBrain>it retries the connect() 3 times, just so see if that helps :D
13:41<frosch123>yep, needs async resolve
13:42<FLHerne>TrueBrain: ok
13:42<FLHerne>(server open)
13:42<TrueBrain>the logs showed 3 connection attmpts?
13:43<FLHerne>https://dpaste.org/gmKb
13:44<TrueBrain>so the second time at least it doesn't show "No route to host"
13:45<TrueBrain>I guess the issue is that the NAT closes when it sees the FIN of the STUN request
13:45<TrueBrain>which would be the sane thing to do btw
13:46<TrueBrain>the suggested solution for that is to leave the STUN connection open, but .. that means we have 2 sockets open on the same local ip/port
13:46<TrueBrain>for Windows that means they both receive data, randomly to which goes what
13:46<TrueBrain>pretty sure I cannot reconstruct that :P
13:47<TrueBrain>basically what I am doing is: open the door, close the door, and JUST before it is closed, sneak in another stream, which keeps the door open
13:47<TrueBrain>I think that your NAT is quick in closing the door
13:48<TrueBrain>and this is why UDP is more reliable, as the odds of that happening is much much lower
13:49<TrueBrain>the other thing people do, is predict what the next port the NAT is gonna use, give or take, and just spray
13:49<TrueBrain>so both sides try 10 ports or something
13:49<TrueBrain>but that sounds really ... nasty
13:53<andythenorth>uuf much sprites to redraw
13:53<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master https://git.io/JYAZz
13:53<@DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
13:53*andythenorth teddy bear drawing
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13:54<TrueBrain>FLHerne: just because I would like to confirm my hypothesis is correct, I pushed a new version that does the spraying
13:54<TrueBrain>mind testing? :D
13:56<FLHerne>TrueBrain: up
13:56<TrueBrain>server full?
13:56<TrueBrain>lol
13:56<TrueBrain>but so yes, that is the issue
13:57<TrueBrain>but did you really have a full server? :D
13:57<FLHerne>It was set to max companies 1 for some reason
13:57<FLHerne>now it isn't
13:57<TrueBrain>now it has a password :P
13:57<FLHerne>12345 still
13:57<FLHerne>I hope?
13:58<TrueBrain>it is
13:58<Wolf01>"password"
13:58<TrueBrain>okay, tnx FLHerne
13:58<TrueBrain>I think spraying like this really is not okay to do
13:58<TrueBrain>but it does mean I am correct in my hypothesis, well, making it no longer a hypothesis I guess :D
13:58<TrueBrain>but when your NAT sees the FIN, it closes the route
13:58<TrueBrain>so for a short moment, reusing the route gives an ICMP error
13:59<TrueBrain>and after that, it has another local port
13:59<FLHerne>Wolf01: It's amazing, I have the same code on my luggage
13:59<TrueBrain>I think we start off by not supporting those NATs, honestly
14:00<Wolf01>My luggage only have 3 cyphers... so I had to drop the zero-fill :P
14:07<TrueBrain>FLHerne: one thing I am curious about, but not sure you can help with that .. is it your NAT, or is it Linux? Do you happen to have a Windows machine or VM to test with?
14:09<FLHerne>I don't have a Windows machine
14:09<TrueBrain>too bad :D
14:09<FLHerne>I could try tethering the laptop to my phone, I suppose...
14:09<nielsm>I can try on linux a bit later
14:09<FLHerne>Not sure if that would prove anything
14:10<TrueBrain>FLHerne: it would
14:10<TrueBrain>if it still doesn't work, it doesn't mean anything
14:10<TrueBrain>but if it does work, it is your NAT :P
14:10<FLHerne>Yeah, that's what I thought
14:10<FLHerne>VM might be the same
14:10<FLHerne>if it didn't work, it might just be that Linux is still being a layer of the notworking stack
14:11<TrueBrain>yup
14:11<TrueBrain>so if you can try tethering, it at least gives me another datapoint :D
14:11<FLHerne>But I don't have a Windows VM on this machine, and the machine it's on is boxed up
14:12<TrueBrain>yeah, no worries
14:12<TrueBrain>owh, right, I have to remove the spray patch first, euh ... let me fix that
14:12<FLHerne>now, can I find a phone signal...
14:13<nielsm>making a linux build now
14:13<TrueBrain>the current branch is bad, give me a sec :)
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14:14<TrueBrain>pushed new version
14:14<FLHerne_>hello
14:15<FLHerne_>yes this works
14:15<TrueBrain>FLHerne_: hi :P
14:15<FLHerne_>hm, it's rebuilding more files this time
14:16<nielsm>btw when you want others to continually fetch your branch and build/test, it's better if you don't amend commits and force-push
14:16<TrueBrain>yeah, did some cleanup
14:16<nielsm>makes it easier for others to just git pull
14:16<TrueBrain>nielsm: I know :P I just keep forgetting :D
14:16<FLHerne_>ip
14:16<FLHerne_>up
14:16<TrueBrain>so it is your NAT :)
14:16<TrueBrain>cool!
14:16<TrueBrain>nielsm: ammending is so hardwired, that I have a hard time not doing it :P
14:17<TrueBrain>tnx a lot FLHerne_
14:17<TrueBrain>not the best outcome, but one that we can explain :)
14:17<FLHerne_>The NAT is a modem-router from one of the UK's main ISPs, with stock configuration of everything relevant
14:17<FLHerne_>So probably representative of a fairly large set of users
14:18*FLHerne_ looks at router settings to see what it says
14:18<FLHerne_>oh, wait, I'm not connected to it...
14:18<TrueBrain>:D
14:18<TrueBrain>stop tethering! :P
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14:22<nielsm>okay opengl is a disaster on my linux laptop
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14:22<FLHerne>uPnP is enabled, "Firewall protection", "Port scan detection" and "IP flood detection" are all enabled
14:22<FLHerne>"Block fragmented IP packets" is disabled
14:22<TrueBrain>I think we do have to add uPnP too, and try that first
14:22<nielsm>I see a "general timeout" error in the console
14:22<TrueBrain>nielsm: that might have been me trying to connect :D
14:23<FLHerne>It's this usual bullshit where it's simplified enough to be unclear, but still doesn't mean anything to non-technical people
14:24<nielsm>TrueBrain yeah it shows your IP on that connection id
14:24<TrueBrain>and it fails to connect
14:24*peter1138 ponders asking his ISP for more IPs.
14:25<nielsm>linux 5.10.17 (fedora) on same network as my desktop running windows
14:25<TrueBrain>can we try your desktop with the same code too? Maybe I made a boo-boo in some cleanup I just did :D
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14:26<nielsm>building now
14:28<TrueBrain>okay, so I fucked up something :D
14:28<nielsm>same error
14:32<TrueBrain>generic timeout you say .. hmm ..
14:33<nielsm>want me to connect to you?
14:33<TrueBrain>lobby 8
14:34<TrueBrain>I did connect, but I timed out, right?
14:34<TrueBrain>might be a variable that is not set correctly
14:37<nielsm>I'll try a dedicated server then
14:38<nielsm>nope general timeout
14:38<TrueBrain>but the logs show we are connected?
14:38<nielsm>https://0x0.st/-c0l.png
14:39<TrueBrain>yeah, okay, so a timer is wrong
14:39<TrueBrain>let me see which one
14:39<TrueBrain>how things are initialized is really .. euh ... annoying to see :P
14:41<TrueBrain>nielsm: what is your "max_init_time" ?
14:42<TrueBrain>set network.max_init_time
14:42<TrueBrain>should show that
14:43<nielsm>100
14:44<TrueBrain>guess we need a bit of debugging ..
14:44<TrueBrain>network.cpp, around like 275 is NetworkCalculateLag
14:44<nielsm>try joining 11 once more
14:44<nielsm>the game is paused now
14:44<TrueBrain>revision mismatch, that is my mistake :D
14:44<nielsm>the error says took more than 100 ticks to join so maybe if it's paused
14:45<TrueBrain>my computer is now too slow to keep up
14:45<TrueBrain>I am curious what last_frame_server / last_frame of "cs" is
14:46<TrueBrain>I somehow have the feeling they are initialized wrong or something
14:46<TrueBrain>but code-wise I see no reason for that
14:47<TrueBrain>can you join your own server btw?
14:47<TrueBrain>hmm, possible not via STUN .. :D
14:48<nielsm>partially
14:48<TrueBrain>same issue?
14:48<nielsm>I do get the network revision
14:48<LordAro>glx: #8967 needs a dmp decode :)
14:48<nielsm>nope
14:49<TrueBrain>I wonder why it works for me and not for you :D I am sure it is because I did something silly ..
14:49<TrueBrain>but earlier I also had "pool" errors, which made no sense what so ever
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14:55<TrueBrain>nielsm: I can neither reproduce it, nor find the reason why it would do that :(
14:56<TrueBrain>if you could add those debug prints I talked about earlier, maybe that sheds some light on the situation
15:04<nielsm>I'm also going to patch IsNetworkCompatibleVersion to return true
15:04<TrueBrain>smart :D
15:05<nielsm>dedicated server started
15:05<TrueBrain>let me try a direct ip connect ..
15:05<TrueBrain>so it is somewhere in the new code .. something not initialized of sorts ..
15:06<nielsm>https://gist.github.com/nielsmh/8e60a2a728c7670fd07f11bca760b007
15:06<TrueBrain>huh? lag = 0, but it times out?
15:06<TrueBrain>wth :D
15:07<nielsm>yeah but like 150 lines of spam of that function
15:07<TrueBrain>I guess that means the second part of the lag calculator kicke din
15:08<TrueBrain>can you also print "_frame_counter" there?
15:09<TrueBrain>most of that code needs to be rewritten to use the real clock, but okay .. something for another day :D
15:09<nielsm>there
15:09<TrueBrain>join timeouts based on ticks .. that is just odd
15:10<nielsm>frame_counter went from 175 to 349 up one by each line printed
15:11<TrueBrain>okay, so that is all working as expected, basically
15:11<TrueBrain>it really took more than 100 ticks to start
15:12<nielsm>also no, I'd say it's correct to calculate lag based on game ticks rather than real time
15:12<TrueBrain>for some parts, yes
15:12<nielsm>the problem is if the client falls behind the simulation
15:12<TrueBrain>but for the initial packet?
15:12<TrueBrain>there is a mix of "game" lag and "realtime" lag :)
15:13<TrueBrain>for example, entering the password .. should be time rather than ticks, I say
15:13<TrueBrain>anyway, can you set max_init_time to 1000 or so?
15:13<TrueBrain>see if that fixes it?
15:15<TrueBrain>that really doesn't feel like it took 3 seconds ..
15:15<TrueBrain>100 ticks is 3 seconds, right?
15:15<nielsm>yes
15:15<TrueBrain>hmm .. I did manage to join
15:15<TrueBrain>but I am not receiving anything anymore :D
15:16<nielsm>it's counting up...
15:16<TrueBrain>owh, paused
15:16<TrueBrain>time seems to flow correctly
15:16<TrueBrain>but on join, it was also saying I didn't receive anything from the server for 5+ seconds
15:16<TrueBrain>really strange
15:17<TrueBrain>it really doesn't takes 3 seconds from the moment I am connected to being ingame, so I wonder why it gets so confused
15:17<TrueBrain>too bad our logger doesn't add time :D
15:23<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #8967: Game crash during startup https://git.io/JYAmd
15:23<TrueBrain>nielsm: I really do not understand what is going on here :)
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15:26<TrueBrain>nielsm: can we try one more time with the 1000 delay? To see if I can stay ingame for a longer period of time?
15:27<TrueBrain>and now it doesn't want to connect at all :P Lol
15:28<TrueBrain>that what was working before, stopped working now :D Great!
15:30<TrueBrain>I receive a SYN and a FIN from you :P
15:30<TrueBrain>no ACKs :D
15:30<nielsm>lol
15:30<TrueBrain>what did you do?
15:31<nielsm>removed the debug print spamming the console
15:31<TrueBrain>lol ...
15:31<TrueBrain>well, it works now :P
15:31<TrueBrain>can we leave it on for like 5 minutes?
15:32<nielsm>ofc
15:32<TrueBrain>tnx, and tnx a lot for helping testing :D
15:32<TrueBrain>I guess tomorrow I make some GUI stuff for this .. so we can spread it a bit further .. collect some more samples
15:32<nielsm>also maybe make it handle normal connects again
15:33<TrueBrain>already have that locally, yes
15:33<nielsm>dunno how you're doing it atm but I'd suggest using some prefix to indicate a lobby id
15:34<TrueBrain>"-n +<lobby>" is wha tI did now :)
15:34<TrueBrain>and I will make the GUI work tomorrow
15:34<nielsm>that can't be mistaken for a hostname or ipv4 or ipv6 address
15:34<TrueBrain>so we don't have to use it :P
15:34<TrueBrain>+ sign works for that, not? :D
15:34<nielsm>does it work with the console connect command?
15:34<TrueBrain>havent checked yet
15:34<TrueBrain>I will put it on my list of things to look at
15:35<@peter1138>Hmm, maybe I should have had dinner
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15:38<andythenorth>I tried dinner
15:38<andythenorth>worked fine
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15:38<@peter1138>Huh, what's SimpleSpriteAlloc() used for? Is it for looking at sprite data outside the blitting system?
15:45<@peter1138>Cool, my mountain biking group is out tonight.
15:45<@peter1138>I'm not.
15:47<@peter1138>What was I thinking when I wrote this newgrf dock stuff..
15:48<nielsm>so it's not ready to ship, I take it
15:48<nielsm>can't present it to your piers yet
15:49<@peter1138>So it's a whole new NewGRF feature, not GSF_STATIONS...
16:01<nielsm>I just had the thought that easy conversion of singleplayer to multiplayer and having someone else join your game will make it much easier to help debug issues someone is having in a game
16:02<TrueBrain>allow FF in MP you say? :D
16:05<TrueBrain>k, this seems to work fine nielsm :D Tnx!!
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16:15<@peter1138>Hmm, what's the diff between NWID_MATRIX and WWT_MATRIX?
16:16<@peter1138>Ah, "totally different" appears to be it
16:17<@peter1138>Why though. Hmm.
16:27<nielsm>uh I figured out the difference a while ago when I did the tree planting UI rewrite and now I've forgotten again
16:29<FLHerne_>" In this game you can find a lot of green tiles, you can find UFOs above the green tiles, but not a single iguana, does it make sense? I don't think so."
16:29<FLHerne_>12 people found this review helpful
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16:29<TrueBrain>a positive or negative review? :D
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16:29<FLHerne>positive
16:30<glx>my FTTH is so stable
16:31<FLHerne>"this is the best game ever created, you can even make a train that goes faster than another train and make another train next to the first train that is going between the second train and the train that someone else built and another train that makes profit and another train that is very long and another train that takes coal and a bus!"
16:31<FLHerne>I love the Steam reviews
16:32<TrueBrain>if you feel sad, read Steam reviews of OpenTTD
16:32<TrueBrain>insta better
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16:42<milek7>https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198411932041/recommended/1536610/
16:42<milek7>what happened there? ;p
16:43<FLHerne>"cannot put stations, then can, then cannot" sounds like confusion about local authorities
16:43<FLHerne>Which is understandable because it's a stupid mechanic
16:44<TrueBrain>we can never ask, as comments are disabled :P
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17:04<Xaroth>0.6 hours? that's like 35 minutes :P
17:05<Xaroth>it takes skill to break something that quickly :P
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17:14<TheArcaneBrony>hi, any chance 1.11.0 has a bug that prevents multiplayer from working?
17:15<Xaroth>What kind of error are you getting?
17:15<TheArcaneBrony>https://i.imgur.com/MU9NWHL.png
17:15<TheArcaneBrony>"Your computer took too long to join the server"
17:16<glx>how big is the map ?
17:16<TheArcaneBrony>4096x4096
17:16<glx>too big for your computer I think
17:16<LordAro>or the server
17:16<TheArcaneBrony>i tried both ways
17:16<TheArcaneBrony>between 2 clients, same error
17:16<TheArcaneBrony>both directions
17:17<LordAro>what is your download/upload speed?
17:17<TheArcaneBrony>gigabit
17:17<TheArcaneBrony>(its a LAN game)
17:17<LordAro>hmm
17:17<TheArcaneBrony>tried putting both clients on a wired connection, same error
17:17<nielsm>try putting the game on pause before joining
17:18<nielsm>(there is also a setting somewhere that makes the server auto-pause while someone is joining/downloading the map)
17:18<LordAro>what CPU do the computers have?
17:18<glx>btw 4k maps are usually boring to play ;)
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17:19<LordAro>(basically, no, there are no known issues with multiplayer)
17:19<LordAro>try a smaller map
17:20<TheArcaneBrony>i7-7950H in my case
17:21<TheArcaneBrony>i3-4150 on the server
17:21<glx>good point, you put the server on the "slowest" machine, that's the recommended setup
17:22<LordAro>i3 could be a bit slow, mostly dependent on single-core clock speed
17:22<LordAro>*a bit slow for 4k map
17:22<nielsm>basically, first try if you can play with a sensible map size (not larger than 1024x1024)
17:22<glx>it's better to have slow server than client unable to keep up
17:22<nielsm>and also try if it makes a difference to have the game paused while people are joining
17:23<nielsm>and yes I agree, unless you are something like 30 people at a lan party all agreeing to play together, a 4k map may as well be all of you playing singleplayer
17:24<TheArcaneBrony>well, i tried with the server on the i7 first, but same thing
17:25<glx>with or without pausing ?
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17:30<LordAro>glx: think you need to shout at your ISP
17:32<glx>yeah but I first need to check the installation, it's new from saturday, I was on adsl before
17:32<glx>maybe something is not fully inserted
17:33<TheArcaneBrony>with pausing, same result
17:33<glx>hmm there's a setting for join time IIRC
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17:35<glx>default is 500 ticks, about 15s
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17:35<glx>quite low for 4k I think
17:36<LordAro>mm
17:36<LordAro>especially with the decompression stuff
17:36<LordAro>gigabit lan, actually transferring the save should be essentially nothing
17:37<LordAro>still, gone now
17:37<TrueBrain>These values should scale to map size I guess ;)
17:38<glx>gigabit lan could use "raw" save format
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17:43<TheArcaneBrony>incase my client broke because its really silent here
17:43<TheArcaneBrony>regardless i tried pausing, same thing
17:45<milek7>25s to save 4k map (on rather fast cpu)
17:45<milek7>but it loads in under 3s
17:46<milek7>TheArcaneBrony: there is max_download_time setting
17:46<TheArcaneBrony>ah?
17:46<TheArcaneBrony>ill try changing it on the host
17:48<glx>https://wiki.openttd.org/en/Manual/FAQ%20multiplayer#people-get-disconnected-while-joining-how-to-fix-that
17:48<TheArcaneBrony>is it possible the setting isnt there?
17:49<glx>these settings are probably not available in GUI
17:49<TheArcaneBrony>ah yeah i cant find them there
17:49<glx>but they are from the console
17:49<FLHerne>Should be in openttd.cfg under [network]
17:50<FLHerne>(don't edit it while OpenTTD is running, it'll be overwritten)
17:50<TheArcaneBrony>theres no console in gui, is there?
17:50<FLHerne>There's a console in gui, press `
17:50<FLHerne>(backtick, above tab here)
17:50<glx>key above tab
17:51<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] jasperfirecai2 opened issue #8968: Arrow key camera panning not consistent with framerate https://git.io/JYAK6
17:53<TheArcaneBrony>milek7: command not found
17:53<TheArcaneBrony>wait i need to use set
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17:54<TheArcaneBrony>froze at 27.0 MiB this time
17:55<TheArcaneBrony>milek7: same error
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17:58<TheArcaneBrony>ill try to throw up a dedicated server on my linux box so i have the console there
18:00<LordAro>TheArcaneBrony: what did you increase it to?
18:00<LordAro>but seriously, use a smaller map
18:00<TheArcaneBrony>is it possible to run a dedicated server without a graphics set?
18:02<@peter1138>4096x4096 was a joke
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18:03<LordAro>TheArcaneBrony: no (though there is a nogfx graphics set lurking around the internet)
18:04<TheArcaneBrony>you can apt install it apparently, and it works fine
18:04<TheArcaneBrony>(apt install openttd-opengfx on ubuntu, works fine)
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18:06<LordAro>TheArcaneBrony: you have not yet explained why you cannot run, or even try, a smaller map
18:06<TheArcaneBrony>fair enough
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18:09<FLHerne>LordAro: meh, if we support 4k maps they ought to work
18:09<FLHerne>That said, they do suck from a gameplay perspective IMO
18:09<milek7>it seems lzma is too slow for default time limit
18:10<LordAro>seems like the solution is the zstd stuff
18:10<LordAro>though possibly with some timeout scaling
18:12<LordAro>though i'm not sure how we could do that sanely and the value still making any sense
18:12<TheArcaneBrony>update: i found the fix
18:12<TheArcaneBrony>i changed max_join_time to 32000
18:13<@peter1138>Enjoy getting lost and endlessly scrolling
18:13<andythenorth>bank/me wonders about 4k map with no trees
18:13<@peter1138>BANK
18:13<andythenorth>typo typo
18:13<andythenorth>that's my password for my bank
18:13<TheArcaneBrony>https://i.imgur.com/TpIQHFO.png
18:13<LordAro>peter1138: you should try jgr's 8k maps :p
18:13<andythenorth>not sure where I even typed bank
18:14<andythenorth>HAXOR
18:14<TheArcaneBrony>this seems to happen often
18:14<TheArcaneBrony>or at least, it happened once
18:14<@peter1138>TheArcaneBrony, it's auto save, probablky.
18:14<TheArcaneBrony>https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.openttd.sdl&hl=en&gl=US
18:14<TheArcaneBrony>this isnt official, is it?
18:15<LordAro>no
18:15<andythenorth>did someone delete the 'no trees' option :P
18:15<andythenorth>oof
18:15<andythenorth>14080 industries on this 4k map
18:15<andythenorth>'lol
18:15<andythenorth>GG connecting those
18:16<LordAro>andythenorth: i feel like it got moved to the settings window?
18:16<andythenorth>oh mine's off
18:16<andythenorth>dunno why
18:16<andythenorth>but eh
18:17<andythenorth>I don't understand why ffwd doesn't make map gen go faster
18:17<@peter1138>:D
18:17<andythenorth>what kind of game even is this?
18:17<andythenorth>is it not modern?
18:17<@peter1138>Offload map gen to your gpu?
18:18<andythenorth>good idea
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18:18<@peter1138>Create the map in chunks depending on what is being looked at?
18:18<andythenorth>then my mac will throttle
18:18<andythenorth>16k in JGRPP
18:18<andythenorth>'probably fine'
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18:19<andythenorth>why is that the time already?
18:22<@peter1138>Available AIs "Regression" "StationList"
18:22<@peter1138>Hmm
18:23<TheArcaneBrony> is there a way to decrease the scrolling sensitvity ingame?
18:24<TheArcaneBrony>because im dealing with the map zoom being uncontrollable
18:25<LordAro>as in, mouse scroll wheel? or scrolling across the map?
18:25<LordAro>the former sounds like an issue with your mouse
18:26<TheArcaneBrony>mouse scroll wheel
18:26<TheArcaneBrony>im using a touchpad
18:27<LordAro>ah
18:28<LordAro>i'm not aware of any setting
18:28<LordAro>but it wouldn't surprise me if there were one
18:31<TheArcaneBrony>well there is one but changing it doesnt seem to help
18:31<@peter1138>If you're using touchpad then you probably want to set "Viewport scroll behaviour" to "move map with RMB" (or maybe LMB)
18:32<@peter1138>As the mouse-warp that the other modes do does not work with touchpad.
18:32<@peter1138>Or maybe it does, I might be thinking of touch screen :D
18:33<TheArcaneBrony>im thinking of the zoom
18:33<TheArcaneBrony>not the moving camera
18:34<@peter1138>Oh
18:34<LordAro>i still feel like the touchpad sensitivity is at fault here
18:34<LordAro>you're going to struggle to control a lot of other things
18:34<@peter1138>Get a mouse :D
18:34<LordAro>accurately contol*
18:35<LordAro>should be able to use +/- to zoom, right? or am i making that up?
18:36<@peter1138>Yeah but if the touchpad simulates mouse wheel with two fingers then who knows.
18:36<LordAro>mine does that
18:36<LordAro>it's challenging to control, but perfectly possible
18:38<TheArcaneBrony>i cant change the touchpad sensitivity in windows
18:39<@peter1138>Use Timberwolf's trains in 1880.
18:39<@peter1138>SimpleAI has decided, of course, that the best train to use is... a horse.
18:40<andythenorth>\o/
18:40<@peter1138>It's gone for Plateway tracks, instead of normal rail.
18:40<andythenorth>sounds valid
18:40<@peter1138>I wonder if there's a hidden "use highest indexed rail type"
18:41<@peter1138>2 horses pulling 132 tonnes of grain, poor things.
18:42<FLHerne>TheArcaneBrony: On my touchpad, I find it easier to control scrolling accurately if I move one finger and keep the other one still
18:43<FLHerne>(because the touch point is averaged, so you effectively halve the sensitivity)
18:43<FLHerne>May be dependent on particular touchpad drivers though
18:43<andythenorth>moar Horse
18:50<@peter1138>Maybe sleep
18:50<@peter1138>Bit early, it's not 2am
18:50<andythenorth>nearly
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18:57<TheArcaneBrony>ah
18:58<TheArcaneBrony>that doesn't work for me
18:58<TheArcaneBrony>is there a way to hide buildings?
18:58<TheArcaneBrony>nvm, transparency options
19:00<TheArcaneBrony>GUI scale anywhere?
19:00<@peter1138>Main "Game Options" windows
19:00<TheArcaneBrony>im just dumb and not looking, yeah lol
19:01<TheArcaneBrony>hm, setting it to 2x makes everything too big
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19:14<andythenorth>such sleeping time really
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19:29<TheArcaneBrony>feature suggestion: chat history lol
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20:07<TheArcaneBrony>nvm thats in the console
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20:33<riis>first time using irc :)
20:34<riis>i saw a post on the subreddit where some dude was printing out their logs to a txt file, are there any hidden ways to only print data i want???
21:03<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Adsadafafas opened issue #8969: Game Crash on Startup https://git.io/JYAbO
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21:44<TheArcaneBrony>with the entire map too big thing
21:44<TheArcaneBrony>what if openttd implemented some chunk thing?
21:57<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] empjustine opened issue #8970: Windows https://git.io/JYxe3
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---Logclosed Thu Apr 08 00:00:50 2021