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#openttd IRC Logs for 2021-06-07

---Logopened Mon Jun 07 00:00:18 2021
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02:21<LordAro>ottdc seems unhappy
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03:21<TrueBrain>poor ottdc :(
03:25<TrueBrain> <- first post is funny :) After that it kinda derails in 2 people fighting, but what-ever
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03:54<@peter1138>"aBase ... has been abandoned. Try zBase instead..." Uhhh
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04:27<TrueBrain>Broken savegame - Invalid town name generator
04:27<TrueBrain>that's new :D
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04:38<@peter1138>ra rapsutin?
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04:46<EER>lover of the russian queen?
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04:53<Timberwolf>I like "when we played this back in 1994... no tutorial, no information to read..."
04:53<andythenorth>printed manual :P
04:53<Timberwolf>And tutorials!
04:54<Timberwolf>They were pretty rudimentary, but gave a rough clue.
04:56<Timberwolf>I guess if you played the early demo versions you had no manual or tutorials.
04:59<EER>I started with the demo where you could only build trains, when I finally got the full game I only built trucks, that would teach those AIs who had been building trucks all along in the demo while I couldn't! I don't remember any tutorials, but the printed manual I remember was quite thick so probably covered most things relevant
05:14<Timberwolf>Oh yes, of course! I'd forgotten the demo was trains-only. (At least, the one I had). I was so badly looking forward to release day when I could play with road vehicles :)
05:31<TrueBrain>ha, town have headers \o/ Okay, this actually works .. w00p
05:31<TrueBrain>now to do the other chunks
05:36<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9322: Add: store table header for each chunk in savegame
05:36<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9322: Add: store table header for each chunk in savegame
05:38<TrueBrain>now the question is: can I do it with the rest too :D
05:41<TrueBrain>.env/bin/python -m savegame_reader test.sav --export-json | jq '.CITY.items[].ratings[0]'
05:41<TrueBrain>allows me to see the rating of company 0 of all towns now :D
05:47<TrueBrain>ugh .. that moment GCC accepts something clang/MSVC don't
05:49<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9322: Add: store table header for each chunk in savegame
05:52<TrueBrain>error: no template named 'optional' in namespace 'std'
05:55<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9338: Several code refactors of the SaveLoad code
05:56<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9322: Add: store table header for each chunk in savegame
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05:59<TrueBrain> <- I think we can all identify with this :)
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06:38<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: maybe convert the game/script chunks to be a table with a json-blob text field for the script's own saved data.
06:38<@peter1138>I guess I need to read up on what a CH_TABLE is...
06:41<@peter1138>Does this make a savegame self-describing?
06:42<@peter1138>+2548-827 is scary
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07:18<TrueBrain>Rubidium: feel free :P But that is not on my list. I am fine with how it is currently stored :)
07:20<TrueBrain>peter1138: it indeed does. And most of those lines are "compat" tables, to "add" a header for old savegames :)
07:20<TrueBrain>1106 of those lines are for only that :D
07:21<@peter1138>Did you intend to go this far or just get carried away?
07:22<TrueBrain>I wanted to do it only for settings
07:22<TrueBrain>as that is what I needed :)
07:43<@peter1138>Scope, eh?
07:43<TrueBrain>sometimes you fall in a pit ..:P
07:43<TrueBrain>but I don't mind thisone
07:43<TrueBrain>the result is pretty cool
07:43<@peter1138>No but if it makes the PR massive it's awkward.
07:44<TrueBrain>that is why there are several PRs :)
07:44<TrueBrain>I just cannot make a PR to a PR ..
07:44<TrueBrain>which is annoying
07:44<TrueBrain>there are really only 3 commits in that PR
07:44<TrueBrain>the rest is all in other PRs :P
07:45<TrueBrain>keeping things revieable is always difficult with these kind of things .. mainly as it requires at least 2 people to understand the SaveLoad code :D
07:49<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #9338: Several code refactors of the SaveLoad code
07:51<TrueBrain>LordAro: did you now seriously comment the same thing on the same variable? :P I cannot rename one without the other :D
07:52<TrueBrain>haha, I was wondering why I couldn't submit my comment :P
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07:52<LordAro>i deleted it seconds after submitting :p
07:52<TrueBrain>now GitHub is utterly confused :D
07:52<LordAro>not my fault you're too fast
07:52<TrueBrain>I can no longer comment on things :D
07:52<TrueBrain>it says I have a pending review
07:52<TrueBrain>of nothing :D
07:52<TrueBrain>WE BROKE IT! :D
07:53<TrueBrain>found a workaround
07:53<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9338: Several code refactors of the SaveLoad code
08:02<TrueBrain>Broken savegame - Referencing invalid Vehicle
08:02<TrueBrain>bah .. what did I break ..
08:39<TrueBrain>w00p, it works :D
08:39<TrueBrain>being able to embed structs in structs really does help for readability etc
08:45<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #9339: Codechange: add and use the ability to store (lists of) structs in savegames
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09:01<TrueBrain>LordAro: I kinda want to make it SLE_COND_REFLIST .. but that _ after COND would be new :P
09:02<TrueBrain>maybe after all this I do a pass on these kind of things
09:03<TrueBrain>as this breaks all patches anyway
09:04<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9338: Several code refactors of the SaveLoad code
09:08<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9338: Several code refactors of the SaveLoad code
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12:47<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 approved pull request #9335: Codechange: make [Save|Load]Settings() behave more like other Save/Load code
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13:53<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 commented on pull request #9338: Several code refactors of the SaveLoad code
14:06*andythenorth refactoring
14:06<andythenorth>slow test runner is slow
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14:17<andythenorth>I have some comments
14:18<andythenorth>x.gif is a lot hard to search for than, e.g. remove_icon.gif, or remove_item.gif or x_icon_red.gif
14:18*andythenorth is still dealing with misguided 'optimisation' approaches that were outdated when they were applied 15 years ago
14:18<andythenorth> not by me
14:19<andythenorth>but still my responsibility
14:19<andythenorth>let's optimise the number of characters in static assets, that's surely going to make us faster and more loved
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14:20*Rubidium used to do that in VB6
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14:22<@Rubidium>not that early ;)
14:22<andythenorth>it's a pattern from either (1) I work solo, so it doesn't matter (2) I have never ever refactored anything ever (3) I genuinely believe it's faster because I read something from google about url size affecting http transfer times
14:22<andythenorth>or (4) I literally don't have any better ideas
14:23<andythenorth>we still have "var a; var b; var m;" etc in very old code
14:23<andythenorth>so much rage it causes me
14:23<andythenorth>but someone believed the javascript performance would be significantly approved, in download time and run time
14:24<@Rubidium>though definitely in that decade, somewhen not long after primary school
14:24<andythenorth>this is also the least likely stuff to get refactored, because searching doing a find and replace on 'a' is a non-starter :D
14:24<andythenorth>stuck with it for life
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14:25<frosch123>there are two groups at work: one group wants to replace the homegrown build system with cmake, the other group wants to add tcl support to the homegrown system :p
14:26<andythenorth>are you a third group?
14:26<andythenorth>group 3: looking on linkedin for jobs
14:26<andythenorth>oh wait, no engineer ever does that :D
14:27<frosch123>yeah, group 3: watching with popcorn
14:33<andythenorth>group 4: wondering if spending more on AWS makes the test runner faster
14:33*andythenorth killing time here
14:33<@Rubidium>andythenorth: it probably would, just a question of how much you need to spend to make it significantly faster
14:34<andythenorth>got to fund those rocket trips
14:34<andythenorth>on-topic: we need 'launch the rocket' in ottd
14:34<@Rubidium>with sufficient funding you can probably let them optimise some AWS nodes for your test runner purposes
14:36<@Rubidium>yeah, it should probably be in the in the G£ or T£ range you'd need to shell out for them to consider doing that ;)
14:37<andythenorth>I have £50
14:37<andythenorth>test runs are 22 minutes
14:37<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 commented on pull request #9339: Codechange: add and use the ability to store (lists of) structs in savegames
14:37<andythenorth>and I'm making atomic commits deleting 1 or 2 images at once
14:38<andythenorth>test is a visual diff of an entire site
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15:29<FLHerne>I'm confused by
15:29<FLHerne>Should the first "if no valid" be "if a valid" ?
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15:33<frosch123>it's a complicated sentence :p
15:34<frosch123>but i think your guess is correct
15:34<frosch123>first line is for companies, second is for deities
15:42<V453000>does every year in openttd have 365 days? For introduction dates
15:43<V453000>so if I do a date(1900,1,1) + 365 * 50, will it add exactly 50 years?
15:44<frosch123>use 365.25 :)
15:45<@Rubidium>frosch123: only works if you start at 1904 up to 2100
15:45<V453000>what does that mean
15:46<frosch123>yeah, but people won't notice due to the 2 years (?) randomisation :)
15:46<V453000>also the vehicle in the purchase menu only says year which will probably never be different
15:46<frosch123>V453000: are you living with the mayan calendar?
15:47<V453000>usually not I guess
15:50<_dp_>I've no idea what are you doing but can't you write like date(1900+50,1,1) or smth?
15:51<V453000>I've found an ancient comment that I wrote for myself, that has date(1900, 1 ,1) + 365 * parameter;
15:51<V453000>I'm assuming I tried 1900+50 last time I was doing this
15:53<V453000>I know it's WRONG, but I'm basically adding daylength modifier to nuts, so you could customize when engines start and when they end
15:54<frosch123>yeah, i think we talked about that 4 years ago :p
15:54<V453000>I'm sure we did
15:54<V453000>I agree it's probably better to do it on the side of the game so all newgrfs scale together
15:55<V453000>but people who use nuts usually only care about trains
15:55<V453000>and they don't have to use the parameter :)
15:58<andythenorth>V453000 YES!
15:58<andythenorth>finally daylength modifier in grf
15:58<andythenorth>I have been waiting for this for so long
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15:58<andythenorth>can grfs read parameters of other grfs?
15:58<+glx>oh nice, current ORDR is a CH_ARRAY, but in intro game it seems to be a CH_RIFF
15:59<_dp_>last time I needed that I just made a grf to adjust intro dates
15:59<frosch123>andythenorth: scary thing, they actually can
15:59<V453000>in my defense, if openttd hasn't implmenented it in the last 4 years, it kind of makes sense if I do it in grf :P
15:59<andythenorth>I thought so
15:59<andythenorth>so we could just make daylength.grf
15:59<andythenorth>with a multiplier
15:59<_dp_>and pretty sure scalable parameter won't help me do what I want :p
15:59<andythenorth>_dp_ you're fine, you have a server
16:00<andythenorth>action D
16:00<_dp_>it's still easier to do in newgrf
16:00<_dp_>unless it's a callback like cost
16:00<nielsm>little thing I'd like to try doing but last I looked it seemed annoyingly difficult to jiggle things around the right way: load the music and begin playing before the newgrf scanning on startup
16:00<_dp_>also pretty sure at that point I didn't yet realize that engines are stored in the savegame xD
16:01<andythenorth>V453000 are you doing it as a multiplier (scales all dates), or an amount of years added?
16:01<andythenorth>multiplier seems better probably?
16:01<V453000>yeah multiplier
16:01<V453000>you choose start and end
16:02<V453000>and I'll python process existing NML to just figure out that formula
16:02<andythenorth>I really think we could move it to one external grf
16:02<andythenorth>the main reason I didn't do it are (1) some people on here said 'ew' (2) I'd have to set it for all my grfs in parameters, and that's boring
16:02<V453000>so an external grf can change the introduction dates of vehicles in other grfs?
16:02<V453000>yeah the other grfs would need to have parameters exposed?
16:03<andythenorth>we can make one daylength.grf and read the parameter of that
16:03<andythenorth>if it's just a multiplier and some start date offset
16:03<andythenorth>or whatever
16:03<andythenorth>oh also I didn't do it because discord be like 'but everybody uses JGRPP so why bother?'
16:04<V453000>but that means it would only support vehicle grfs which do read this other grf
16:04<V453000>at which point you could just have the parameter in each of them, with less convenience but one less grf to remember
16:04<andythenorth>stuff and things
16:04<andythenorth>shall we just merge everything to one grf?
16:05<andythenorth>obviously it's impossible for the base game to scale intro dates, as C++ can't do that kind of maths
16:05<V453000>hm, can I ensure parameter A is always lower than parameter B?
16:05<V453000>I guess I can just disable the grf if you configure it that way
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16:07<andythenorth>@seen Eddi|zuHause
16:07<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: Eddi|zuHause was last seen in #openttd 3 weeks, 4 days, 11 hours, 1 minute, and 59 seconds ago: <Eddi|zuHause> also, isn't "master" a "bad" word nowadays?
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16:10<V453000>Valid range for yyyy is 0 ... 5000000
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16:16<frosch123>yes, that's when ottd starts looping years
16:17<frosch123>though that is most likely very untested :p
16:17<V453000>yeah 500 001 results in 1661
16:17<V453000>I kind of expected it would result in 0
16:18<V453000>as you can clearly set it to 0 (logic engine has it at (0,1,1) )
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16:19<frosch123>it takes about 130 years to run a game from year 0 to 5M at normal speed :)
16:20<frosch123>just in case you are tempted to
16:20<V453000>this is half a million, so just 13 years
16:20<V453000>somebody has probably hosted a server for that long
16:21<V453000>nvm I cna't count zeros
16:21<V453000>or type
16:22<V453000>So, reasonable maximum? :D
16:22<V453000>I mean, if you set 5M for yourself, enjoy
16:23<andythenorth>V453000 declare this as some kind of daylength standard and I'll add it to my grfs :P
16:23<V453000>I'll just set the max to 5m
16:23<V453000>min to 1
16:23<V453000>or to 0 I guess
16:23<V453000>who am I to judge
16:24<V453000>if you want to have maglevs next to horses from other sets, or steamers next to some modern shit, be my gues
16:24<V453000>obviously most of the time people would just use it on servers for a shorter or longer game for example
16:25<V453000>start still in 1900, but end in 1950 or 2500
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16:37<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] embeddedt commented on pull request #9191: Codechange: Disable pointer locking by default
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17:01<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9191: Codechange: Disable pointer locking by default
17:01<TrueBrain>"I'm wondering if my emails are being delivered to you or are my emails mistakenly falling into your Spam folder ? Please reply to my email if you receive it ." <- yes, yes they are :P
17:01<TrueBrain>happy ther eis a form of self-realisation :D
17:03<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #9335: Codechange: make [Save|Load]Settings() behave more like other Save/Load code
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17:08<TrueBrain>GitHub really needs to more clearly indicate what blocks of code are moved :P
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17:14<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9338: Several code refactors of the SaveLoad code
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17:24<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9338: Several code refactors of the SaveLoad code
17:25<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9338: Several code refactors of the SaveLoad code
17:26<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9338: Several code refactors of the SaveLoad code
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17:35<TrueBrain>MSVC2016's "friends" system is broken ..
17:35<TrueBrain>how are we going to deal with that ..
17:35<TrueBrain>all compilers accept it, except MSVC2016 ...
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17:40<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9339: Codechange: add and use the ability to store (lists of) structs in savegames
17:40<TrueBrain>I also have no way of testing if more specific friend-declarations are still working .. maybe glx can help with that
17:40<TrueBrain>but why are we still supporting compiles on MSVC2016?
17:42<TrueBrain>owh, it is windows-2016 MSVC
17:42<TrueBrain>I keep forgetting that
17:42<TrueBrain>it is MSVC2017
17:42<+glx>yes VS2017
17:43<TrueBrain>so shitty to have to deal with compiler issues :P
17:44<TrueBrain>glx: do you have VS2017 installed by any chance?
17:44<+glx>I have the compiler in VS2019
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17:44<TrueBrain>it works for VS2019 :P
17:44<+glx>so I can build with 2017 in 2019
17:44<TrueBrain>guess I will abuse the CI tomorrow to see if there are variants it does accept
17:44<TrueBrain>owh, sorry, misread you :D
17:45<TrueBrain>that "friend" is not working for VS2017
17:45<+glx>used it to fix something (before enabling VS2017 CI)
17:45<TrueBrain>could you give it a look to see if variants do work?
17:46<TrueBrain>something like "friend const static SaveLoad SlVehicleCommon::description" maybe?
17:47<+glx>btw in #9322 rebasing is weirdly done (ie individual commits won't compile)
17:47<TrueBrain>glx: yeah, often the last commit fixes stuff which I need to fixup in earlier
17:47<TrueBrain>will do that before pulling it out of draft :)
17:48<+glx>ok VS2019 builds fine (expected)
17:48<+glx>now the other one
17:48<TrueBrain>guess an alternative is that I put those in an explicit function again
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17:49<TrueBrain>not the end-of-the-world or anything :D
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17:49<TrueBrain>just annoyed by the fact it doesn't work :D
17:50<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 commented on pull request #9339: Codechange: add and use the ability to store (lists of) structs in savegames
17:54<+glx>and it used the wrong compiler :(
18:02<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9338: Several code refactors of the SaveLoad code
18:03<+glx>ok seems they again broke VCToolsVersion support, I'll switch to manually define compilers path
18:04<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9338: Several code refactors of the SaveLoad code
18:08<+glx>ah no, just needed to set another environment variable it seems
18:10<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9338: Several code refactors of the SaveLoad code
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18:11<TrueBrain>now with a better comment on the last commit :D
18:12<+glx>ok I have the same errors as CI ;)
18:14<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Andrew350 commented on issue #8846: Updating add-ons in the NewGRF settings window don't take into account the compatibility parameter
18:16<TrueBrain>well, that is something :D
18:17<TrueBrain>owh, this usage of mine predates C++11 even
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18:18<TrueBrain>not sure there is another solution besides making it into a function
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18:21<TrueBrain>anyway, please don't spend too much time on it glx, but if you can fiddle a bit to see if anything decent falls out, that would be lovely :) Tnx!
18:21<TrueBrain>I am out catching some zzzz
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18:30<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] embeddedt updated pull request #9191: Codechange: Disable pointer locking by default
18:40<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] embeddedt updated pull request #9191: Codechange: Disable pointer locking by default
18:42<+glx>TrueBrain: maybe because it's accessed in a lambda
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---Logclosed Tue Jun 08 00:00:19 2021