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#openttd IRC Logs for 2021-06-23

---Logopened Wed Jun 23 00:00:40 2021
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03:45<@peter1138>moo
03:45<@peter1138>Woke
03:45<@peter1138>Looked out
03:45<@peter1138>Went back to sleep
03:45<@peter1138>Could've been good morning ride...
03:46<LordAro>silly
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04:02*peter1138 confused by friends complaining that something as high end as a 1050Ti is the minimum to run a VR compatible game releasing later this year.
04:02<TrueBrain>high end? :D
04:27<@peter1138>Quite.
04:28*Rubidium got a E7440, is that high end enough?
04:31<@peter1138>Damn, 30-series RTX has way more "cores" than my 2080 Ti :(
04:33<@peter1138>I think they've confused "high price" with "current tech"
04:33<@peter1138>You can't buy a 1050Ti for a reasonable price because there are none lying about on shelves begging to be sold cheaply.
04:40<@peter1138>https://www.notebookcheck.net/The-GeForce-GTX-1050-Ti-is-making-a-comeback-to-fill-NVIDIA-s-graphics-card-shortage.519713.0.html
04:40<@peter1138>OOf?
04:55<LordAro>can't get graphics cards for love nor money right now
04:55<LordAro>well, you can for lots of money
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05:30<LordAro>always a good start to the day when you open an issue against MSYS
05:30<TrueBrain>ugh, MSYS .. ugh :P
05:31<TrueBrain>right, guess we need a bit of opinions if https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/9391 is a good idea or not :)
05:32<LordAro>std::variant scares me
05:32<TrueBrain>not sure that is an opinion :D
05:33<TrueBrain>more a statement :P
05:33<LordAro>a statement of opinion
05:35<TrueBrain>:D
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08:02<Samu>hello
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09:51<andythenorth>yo
09:51*andythenorth is having a week off
09:51<andythenorth>I always lay off the coffee when I'm not working
09:51*andythenorth feels wrong
09:51<andythenorth>usually I have 4 or 5 cups by this time of day
09:51<andythenorth>today 1 only
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09:55<LordAro>that feels a bit much
09:58<Timberwolf>I'm reminded of a job in 2012 where we all got briefly obsessed about an app which tried to suggest your optimal caffeine level.
09:59<Timberwolf>I entered my coffee/tea intake... the line spiked steeply off the top of the chart by 10am and never returned to the displayable area.
10:01*andythenorth has a coffee
10:01<LordAro>lol
10:01<andythenorth>crashing off the caffeine curve here
10:03<+glx>LordAro: weird issue you got with sqlite3
10:07<LordAro>glx: ikr
10:08<LordAro>tell me you can reproduce it, because i've seen it in 4 separate msys installs now (though 3 of them are clones of each other)
10:08<+glx>I reproduced it
10:09<LordAro>good :)
10:09<LordAro>they redid all the msys patches around 3.33, i'm betting something got missed there
10:09<LordAro>still bizarre though
10:11<+glx>maybe the issue is in posix dll
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11:55<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Taschi120 commented on issue #9188: `autosave/netsave.sav` is not numbered (unlike regular `autosave/autosave#.sav`) https://git.io/J3guT
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12:17<Taschi>hi folx
12:19<Taschi>quick dev question - is there an option (preprocessor flag or something) to point the OpenTTD instance I'm running from VisualStudio to a different user data directory, so it doesn't write its autosaves and stuff at the same place my regular installation does?
12:20<+glx>you can add arguments to debug run command
12:20<nielsm>put an empty openttd.cfg file in the same dir as the exe, or pass the commandline to use a different cfg file
12:24<Taschi>cheers
12:24<+glx>btw your last comment feels like a regression bug
12:24<+glx>IIRC it used to do what you expect
12:26<Taschi>git blame says the DoAutosave() function was last changed in 2014
12:33<Samu>https://docs.openttd.org/ai-api/functions_eval_b.html#index_b - there's no BT_CANAL, sad :(
12:34<+glx>IIRC you have an open PR for that
12:35<Samu>im attempting to estimate costs
12:35<Samu>for building a canal route, and yeah, i can't do it the easy way
12:35<+glx>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/8390
12:36<Samu>oh, i remember
12:36<Samu>yeah, merge it
12:36<Samu>:p
12:37<Taschi>i don't even think there's any way to determine the age of a file in fileio.cpp
12:37<+glx>yeah I think it always started from 0 indeed (after digging in history)
12:41<LordAro>age of file isn't a particularly crossplatform thing to do
12:41<+glx>and originally there was a hard limit of 16 autosave
12:41<Taschi>there is a function in C++17 for file age but yeah
12:41<Taschi>coming from Java i often forget how low-tech C++ is in some areas
12:43<Taschi>i guess what i could do is, keep the current netsave behavior while "keep all autosaves" is off, and save the netsave as "netsave-<default savegame name>" when "keep all autosaves" is on
12:44<+glx>oh don't rely on std::filesystem ;)
12:53<Taschi>i've never used it, why? is it bad?
12:55<FLHerne>glx, Taschi: last comment isn't a regression; someone pointed it out to me a while ago
12:55<FLHerne>Probably worth fixing though :p
12:55<+glx>yeah it's in r1 too ;)
12:56<FLHerne>('someone' was Rubidium according to grep)
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12:57<+glx>Taschi: ideally both autosave and netsave should share the same code :)
12:57<+glx>without copy pasting
12:57<FLHerne>In the 'Load game' dialog the files are sorted by age; how does that work?
12:58<Taschi>@FLHerne that is a good question...
12:59<Taschi>oh, and it seems like "keep_all_autosave", "autosave_on_exit" and "autosave_on_network_disconnect" aren't even in the settings menu? Or am I just blind?
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13:02<FLHerne>It's quite possible, there are lots of 'hidden' settings
13:02<FLHerne>[I don't see them either]
13:02<+glx>FiosFileScanner::AddFile does it
13:03<Taschi>huh
13:03<Taschi>i am staring at DoAutosave() in openttd.cpp right now
13:03<Taschi>and, uh... why is _autosave_ctr a local variable? How does that even *work*
13:03<+glx>many settings are not in the GUI
13:04<+glx>it's a static variable
13:04<+glx>not really local :)
13:04<Taschi>i... didn't even know you could do that in C++
13:04<+glx>so local to the function, but permanent value
13:05<FLHerne>"How does that even *work*" seems to be a common question when looking at old C++ code
13:06<FLHerne>grfcodec is even better than openttd proper for that
13:06<FLHerne>There's some utterly insane stuff in there
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13:13<+glx>and 2 mixed coding styles in grfcodec :)
13:14<+glx>anyway if a setting is not in GUI, it should still be in the console
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13:20<Taschi>https://github.com/Taschi120/OpenTTD/commit/9bda0610b139c89c889f8df60612215cf6a6ea54 - I've replicated the autosave behavior for netsaves but also essentially duplicated the code
13:21<Taschi>tho the netsave needs its own counter, and uses different string literals, so i'm not sure merging the two into one function would actually make the code more compact and readable
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13:30<+glx>counter can be a reference arg, same for base name, and all the stuff with buffer can be replaced with std::string
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13:31<+glx>ah no, GenerateDefaultSaveName() must be converted first
13:33<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Taschi120 opened pull request #9395: Change #9188: Netsave now behaves like autosave https://git.io/JnQY9
13:33<+glx>but each buffer to string conversion is a rabbit hole :)
13:36<Taschi>guess i'll try and refactor it a bit
13:37<+glx>but still without switching to std::string it can still use a common function for both
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13:53<andythenorth>so
13:53<andythenorth>bleeding edge grf spec version of OpenTTD?
13:53<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Taschi120 updated pull request #9395: Change #9188: Netsave now behaves like autosave https://git.io/JnQY9
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13:55<Taschi>there, i've refactored it
13:57<Taschi>i was a bit confused based on the code style document on whether Doxygen or Javadoc-style comments are preferred for documentation
13:57<+glx>we use doxygen
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13:58<+glx>DoAutosave() is almost useless now :)
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14:24<Taschi>not gonna do anything else this evening, but if you have any feedback to my PR i'll look at it tomorrow
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14:38<FLHerne>Maybe it's a bit orthogonal, but fixing autosave (and now netsave) to overwrite the oldest one would indeed make it more useful
14:38<FLHerne>or at least more reliable for some uses
14:39<FLHerne>I just saw a little steamboat :-) https://www.flherne.uk/files/IMG_20210623_182343.jpg
14:45<Taschi>i think fixing Autosave should probably have its own ticket but i'd be willing to take a stab at it
14:46<Taschi>also, that's a cute boat
14:46<Taschi>i was kinda planning to take a narrowboat vacation in the UK once the pandemic is over and i'm not broke
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14:53<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Taschi120 opened issue #9396: Rotation of numbered autosaves is confusing https://git.io/JnQ0a
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14:56<Taschi>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/9396
14:56<Taschi>ah, the nice bot already linked it
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15:02<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Taschi120 commented on issue #9396: Rotation of numbered autosaves is confusing https://git.io/JnQ0a
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15:16<andythenorth>is there any trick to detect x < n when doing modulo(x)?
15:16<andythenorth>actually that means nothing
15:16<andythenorth>ignore
15:17*andythenorth needs discord for editable messages :P
15:17<andythenorth>think irc might be over soon
15:17*andythenorth trying to find a way to handle "number towns < FIRS town 'types'"
15:18<Taschi>tbh i was surprised this chat hadn't migrated to Discord yet
15:19<andythenorth>there are people who can't discord for ethical reasons
15:19<Taschi>i understand that
15:20<Taschi>i was really annoyed when they decided they'd put a games storefront into their chat system
15:21<Taschi>otoh it's been like 12 years since I first used IRC and there's been basically no improvement in the user experience
15:22<Taschi>and i'm sceptical of any online technology that only supports something as basic as user authentication through unofficial expansions and hacks
15:26<FLHerne>To be fair, everyone uses NickServ now
15:26<FLHerne>It might be an unofficial hacky standard, but it's a standard
15:27<FLHerne>andythenorth: I don't think maths can solve your problem there :p
15:27<FLHerne>It's a policy decision
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15:37<andythenorth>a policy I should decide, or the newgrf spec policy?
15:40<Wolf01>Should you remember what happened the last time you decided something :P
15:40<andythenorth>we don't talk about NRT
15:41<Wolf01>Which is one of the best features so far, but yeah, better not talk about it :D
15:42<Taschi>what you should do is give the user an electric shock so they won't choose silly world generation settings next time
15:43<andythenorth>there's not even a way to detect the problem :)
15:44<Taschi>oops
15:44<andythenorth>the grf spec was (not entirely deliberately, but somewhat intentionally) crippled in favour of GS
15:55*andythenorth will use what there is
15:55<andythenorth>there will be...bugs
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16:00<@peter1138>Post-ride burger.
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16:03<@peter1138>User authentication for most things is unofficial expansions and hacks...
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16:12<FLHerne>andythenorth: That you should decide? I don't see how grfspec can do anything meaningful about the number of FIRS town types
16:13<andythenorth>me neither
16:13<andythenorth>no var for number of towns on the map
16:22<Taschi>i think you could technically show the user a message along the lines of "please check that there are at least X towns on the map, otherwise <NewGRF name> won't work properly" after world generation?
16:23<Taschi>emphasis on "i think"
16:24<andythenorth>I could, but I suspect 99% of games have > 3 towns
16:24<andythenorth>so it's not a good rationale for the message :)
16:25<andythenorth>I could stop talking and start patching
16:26<andythenorth>I'm already playing a patched OpenTTD with patched grfs
16:26<nielsm>OpenTTDPatch
16:26<Taschi>yeah
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---Logclosed Thu Jun 24 00:00:41 2021