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#openttd IRC Logs for 2022-01-10

---Logopened Mon Jan 10 00:00:23 2022
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04:54<andythenorth>hmm
04:54<andythenorth>restricting town sizes by region?
04:54<andythenorth>GS?
04:54<andythenorth>oof
05:03<@peter1138>Restricting coffee intake?
05:04<andythenorth>I've tried
05:05<andythenorth>4 a day works
05:05<andythenorth>5 a day is too many, but happens
05:05<andythenorth>3 a day is not enough :(
05:26<Timberwolf>I have been slightly better since not working in offices, before that it was typically 2-3 coffees and 5-7 cups of tea per day.
05:27<LordAro>did you get any work done, or were you constantly making drinks/going to the toilet?
05:28<Timberwolf>The latter does start to become an issue during the late part of the day.
05:29<Timberwolf>I got quite optimised with drinks. The worst is when you start to think about the frequency you're the one to fill up an empty filter coffee machine on a floor of ~300 people.
05:37<LordAro>ha
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07:17<@peter1138>"I can't access your site due to our corporate censorship^W firewall, what are you going do to?"
07:17<@peter1138>Uh huh
07:45<andythenorth_>"do you have a hotspot on your phone?"
07:46<andythenorth_>meanwhile, anyone using Snyk?
07:46<andythenorth_>trying to work out what it does and if it's snake oil https://snyk.io/
08:05<LordAro>feels a bit like its repackaging/reimplementing existing stuff
08:06<LordAro>not sure if there's any that are publicly available though - i know github has a similar thing
08:09<andythenorth_>I think it's just Dependabot outside of github
08:09<andythenorth_>plus some wavey hands about AI code analysis
08:09<andythenorth_>and a big ticket price if you want actual features
08:14<Timberwolf>I know a couple people who work there, not dug too much into it - they started out with software supply chain and dependency scanning iirc, then moved on to automated code analysis.
08:15<Timberwolf>Think one of the big sells is you can do PCI compliance with a tool that isn't utterly awful and generates thousands of false positives every time it runs.
08:20<andythenorth_>that is the theoretical selling point for me (not PCI, but similar compliance)
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09:29<supermop_Home>yo
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10:45-!-nielsm is "Niels Martin Hansen" on #openttd
10:50<nielsm>https://www.dosgameclub.com/transport-tycoon/
10:50<nielsm>podcast published today
10:53<supermop_Home>yay
11:35<supermop_Home>hmm no one has found the aloha shirts yet
11:43<TrueBrain>nielsm: "who is actually an active developer of OpenTTD and thus very knowledgeable about the game and especially OpenTTD's history" <- I love the "thus" :D
11:44<TrueBrain>the website style is absolutely briliant
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12:13<supermop_Home>I guess I should make arctic Hawaii sprites too... in case anyone wants to set a game on top of Mauna Kea: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_of_Hawaii#/media/File:Hawaii_K%C3%B6ppen.png
12:13<supermop_Home>^needs snow in tropic
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12:51<andythenorth_>quak
12:53<frosch123>moo
12:57<andythenorth_>can I read the length of the town array as a random seed? :P
12:57*andythenorth_ should not read http://marcin.ttdpatch.net/sv1codec/TTD-locations.html
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15:04<frosch123>nielsm: nice podcast :) i learned a few things and/or relearned things i forgot
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16:17<nielsm>I should listen to it myself too, I can't quite remember all we talked about!
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16:19<frosch123>i certainly did not know that ttdp was sponsored by a disassembler company
16:22<frosch123>also that they force recruited you to their club :p
16:24<nielsm>I didn't quite feel forced no
16:28<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/nml] 2TallTyler commented on issue #218: Request: Add variable for xy coordinates of industries https://git.io/JGqZ1
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16:55<supermop_Home>should i replace the tropic trees?
16:55<supermop_Home>ogfx seems to have some eucalyptus-y trees... could use a few better palms
16:56<supermop_Home>also really need a banyan and nortfolk island pine
16:56<supermop_Home>i don't really understand how rainforest works
16:57<supermop_Home>andythenorth_ did you ever figure out how to get tropic to generate mountains?
16:57<andythenorth_>nope
16:57<supermop_Home>why does tropic use a different bumpiness anyway?
17:03<andythenorth_>because stuff
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17:06<wisbascii>What about Mount Fuji
17:08<wisbascii>what are those almost verticle trains called ?
17:10<bkilm[m]>Do you think a mod would be possible to be able to play OpenTTD with terminal graphics?
17:11<+glx>already possible, but it's not really readable
17:11<supermop_Home>wisbascii an elevator?
17:11<nielsm>wisbascii: funiculars? rack rail?
17:12<wisbascii>nielsm: that's the one, thanks!
17:12<bkilm[m]>I mean, what if the projection was changed to be at a right angle?
17:12<wisbascii>supermop_Home: "elevator" lol .. not a train a single carriage ;-)
17:12<bkilm[m]>It would also be funny to replace sprites with Unicode characters!
17:13<supermop_Home>can i open an issue that tropic mountains suck? or will you just close it?
17:13<wisbascii>sucking isn't a bug
17:13<bkilm[m]>I found a bunch of ASCII games that made me wonder https://gitlab.com/bkil/open-gaming/-/blob/master/ascii.md
17:14<wisbascii>bkilm[m]: maybe as a top down scroller ?
17:14<wisbascii>you could paste ascii junctions ! ;-)
17:14<supermop_Home>wisbascii maybe not a bug, but it is an issue
17:14<bkilm[m]>Yes! You can copy & paste screenshots on platforms that have preformatted multi-line text (like Matrix)
17:15<nielsm>bkilm[m]: do you mean as in change away from the orthographic projection into a flat top-down view or something? because you'd need to rip a huge part of the code out for that
17:15<bkilm[m]>Yes
17:15<bkilm[m]>Sorry to hear that.
17:15<wisbascii>it would probably be easier to start with "centipede" code
17:16<bkilm[m]>`apt install empire` https://sourceware.org/xconq/gamedoc/old-empire/index.html
17:17<wisbascii>supermop_Home: not really an issue either, more like opinion..
17:17<bkilm[m]>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_(1977_video_game)
17:18<wisbascii>nethack could do it ;-)
17:18<supermop_Home>wisbascii if you have a menu choice of 'flat, hilly, or mountainous', but all three yield essentially the same result, that is at the very least an issue of design philosophy
17:19<supermop_Home>if i choose mountainous i would expect to see at least one mountain
17:19<wisbascii>supermop_Home: sure .. but does that technically count as "sucking" ? |-]
17:20<supermop_Home>yes
17:20<wisbascii>not for me
17:20<wisbascii>select a muntainous stage
17:21<wisbascii>mountainous
17:21*wisbascii reaches for the dictionary
17:21<supermop_Home>if you bought a set of tools that said it had a screwdriver, a wrench, and a hammer, but when you opened the box it was just three hammers, that would be an issue
17:22<supermop_Home>you might even say that your set of tools sucks
17:22<wisbascii>if you did you would be deviod of the truth ..
17:22<wisbascii>devoid*
17:22<wisbascii>a. it is not a set of tools. b. if hammers suck then we must all suck too
17:23<wisbascii>i don't really know the"insides" of ottd but I know enough to know that senarios don't mix
17:24<supermop_Home>currently i'd describe it as 'Game feature claims to do X, actually does Y'
17:24<wisbascii>i'd say it does what it says on the tin, just depends which tin you have in your hand
17:26<nielsm>supermop_Home: what is your variety distribution setting at?
17:27<supermop_Home>nielsm high
17:27<supermop_Home>though 'very low' looks the same
17:30<supermop_Home>on alpinist with high or very low variety distribution, the map is broadly very flat - between height 1 and 3 - with a few small hills around height 6
17:31<supermop_Home>i don't mind tropic generation being different that the other climates, but it would be helpful to be able to quickly roll a bumpy tropic map
17:33<wisbascii>which one is "tropic" ?
17:33<supermop_Home>does rainforest need to be at high elevation?
17:33<nielsm>no, rainforest can also be on flat land, but the terrain generator only puts it together with mountains
17:34<nielsm>in the map editor you can also make flat rainforest and mountanious desert
17:34<andythenorth_>there is ASCII OpenTTD no?
17:34<andythenorth_>one of the video drivers can do it I thought?
17:34<supermop_Home>i mean i feel that that is at least a gameplay reason to let the generator generate mountains?
17:35<andythenorth_>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61-PpWzl_0w
17:35<nielsm>if you compile with SDL 1.2 then you can have SDL do ASCII art output
17:35<nielsm>note that SDL 1.2 is officially out of support from the developers and they recommend against using it
17:35<andythenorth_>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61-PpWzl_0w
17:35<andythenorth_>oops wrong paste https://www.reddit.com/r/openttd/comments/2nizcj/whoops_didnt_know_this_was_possible/
17:36*andythenorth_ bedtime
17:36<supermop_Home>nielsm so if the generator generates a very flat landscape does it just put the rainforest on height 3 or not at all?
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17:37<nielsm>I don't know enough about it to answer that
17:37<supermop_Home>well will you close my issue, or is it worth opening?
17:37<nielsm>but do try the original generator instead of terragenesis, it goes about subtropic in an entirely different way (it also gives you almost no options for it)
17:39<supermop_Home>haha its literally split in half down the middle, with hills on the west, flat on the east, and water running up the center
17:40<wisbascii>is the question not: what are you trying to do ?
17:40<nielsm>it can split in either direction
17:41<supermop_Home>nielsm original is certainly more successful at making bumps, but it doesn't look as good as say, a terragenesis temperate map
17:42<supermop_Home>it would also be nice to have indication of rainforest areas on the terrain
17:42<nielsm>you can also try lowering the desert coverage % for subtropic, it won't make more mountains but it will make more rainforest
17:43<supermop_Home>i already have it at 0... there is very little desert in Hawaii (not zero, but not really enough to make sense for Openttd gameplay)
17:43<nielsm>actually... I still don't know, is rainforest the same as not-desert, or are there desert, green, and rainforest as three different things?
17:43<supermop_Home>three things
17:44<supermop_Home>rainforest uses the same grass tiles as regular non-desert
17:44<supermop_Home>but can have different trees, and the original sawmill can only be build in rainforest
17:45<nielsm>I'm off, already way too late
17:45<nielsm>gn
17:45<supermop_Home>later
17:45<wisbascii>so ..
17:46<wisbascii>are you just trying to push the generator ?
17:48<supermop_Home>i just want a mountainous map if i choose 'mountainous'
17:49<wisbascii>are there any settings which actually give you what you want, so i can see ?
17:50<supermop_Home>choosing mountainous with temperate or arctic both give results that are different than 'flat' or 'hilly'
17:51<supermop_Home>with tropic there is no appreciable difference between flat, hilly, mountainous, or alpinist
17:52<wisbascii>yeah, i see what you mean
17:52<supermop_Home>i'm not saying that mountainous tropic needs to be the same as mountainous arctic
17:53<wisbascii>i'm trying lots of combos and not seeing a mountain ..
17:53<supermop_Home>just that it needs to look different than flat tropic
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17:53<supermop_Home>so that there is some visual and gameplay difference based on options selected
17:54<wisbascii>there is some way to lower the snow line i think
17:54<supermop_Home>there is no snow in tropic
17:54<wisbascii>lol
17:55<wisbascii>yeah and the now line is not an option either
17:55<wisbascii>it's only a %
17:55<wisbascii>i can only presume a 3way % battle, Tropic vs temporate vs tundra
17:56<wisbascii>something like that
17:56<wisbascii>snow-line**
17:57<wisbascii>so there was this: "/snow-line hieght"
17:57<wisbascii>and you could lower it for more snow etc..
17:57<supermop_Home>that was changed a couple years ago
17:58<wisbascii>i guess..
17:58<supermop_Home>i believe the current approach tries to account for the heightlevels on the map
17:59<supermop_Home>but basically sets the snow line at a level where roughly that percentage of the map will be above it
18:03<supermop_Home>as the snow line has a gameplay effect on towns and industries, it's in someways more helpful to have a setting that translates to 'roughly x% of towns will require food' or y% of land will be able to have farms
18:05<wisbascii>it looks like a binary choice: snow or desert by %
18:08<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] supermop opened issue #9786: [Bug]: Terragenesis Mountainous setting does nothing for Tropic landscape https://git.io/J9Cqt
18:08<wisbascii>try "Custom height=70"
18:09<wisbascii>terrain type: custom height = 75
18:11<wisbascii>300!
18:21<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] supermop opened issue #9787: Rainforest is visually indistinguishable from regular grass https://git.io/J9Cmq
18:29<wisbascii>supermop_Home: looking for a challenge ?
18:31<wisbascii>something a little more challenging ?
18:39<supermop_Home>challenge?
18:40<supermop_Home>my current challenge is deciding whether i can buy a new lens
18:42<wisbascii>photography ?
18:43<wisbascii>do you use a vpn much ?
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19:00<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TinCanTech commented on issue #9784: The GUI for changing company color scheme is confusing https://git.io/J9GFm
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19:38<supermop_Home>never use a vpn, can't be bothered
19:57<wisbascii>just curious, not spamming
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---Logclosed Tue Jan 11 00:00:24 2022