| --- | Log | opened Tue Jan 11 00:00:24 2022 |
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| 09:21 | <supermop_Home> | yo |
| 09:28 | <supermop_Home> | TrueBrain can your tool export a grf? |
| 09:29 | <+glx> | you mean the "download: grf" button ? |
| 09:30 | <supermop_Home> | oooh |
| 09:34 | <supermop_Home> | 'industry of Hawaii' is actually not that interesting |
| 09:35 | <supermop_Home> | tourism and defense are the biggest parts, but most of that 'defense' part is just people going to work at some office job at pearl harbor |
| 09:37 | <supermop_Home> | the rest, like sugar cane/macadamia/pineapple would just be farm->packing plant -> port, or farm ->port |
| 09:39 | <supermop_Home> | then there would be farm ->houses and fish ->houses, and port ->oil refinery ->gas station |
| 09:40 | <supermop_Home> | tourism is less tourists ->beach, and more workers commute to hotels or restaurants |
| 09:43 | <supermop_Home> | man too bad industries can't define custom fields yet |
| 09:46 | <supermop_Home> | so can have both pineapple fields and cow pastures |
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| 11:12 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on issue #9782: [Bug]: Dedicated server requires useless client_name https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/9782 |
| 11:21 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on issue #9787: Rainforest is visually indistinguishable from regular grass https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/9787 |
| 11:41 | <supermop_Home> | hmm i guess it would have been easier to start this from a 'in a hot country' template than steeltown |
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| 11:50 | <supermop_Home> | Should a sugar refinery make food, or refined sugar, or like specialty food? |
| 11:50 | <supermop_Home> | or goods? |
| 11:52 | <supermop_Home> | is taro root FOOD, or is it something that gets made into food at a secondary industry? |
| 11:52 | <nielsm> | sugar and molasses |
| 11:53 | <supermop_Home> | nielsm Hawaii had lots of sugar refineries, but few rum distilleries |
| 11:53 | <nielsm> | also important, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Molasses_Flood |
| 11:53 | <supermop_Home> | so idk if it goes plantation->refinery->export, or plantation->refinery->houses |
| 11:54 | <nielsm> | industrial scale would make most sense to export and other industries, not directly to houses |
| 11:55 | <nielsm> | unless you also have a dentist equipment cargo that needs to be delivered to the houses in equal amounts |
| 11:55 | <supermop_Home> | pineapples also weird, as today its mostly pineapple->air freight to mainland, before was pineapple->cannery->sea freight |
| 11:55 | <supermop_Home> | nielsm haha |
| 11:56 | <supermop_Home> | i guess its just like, what supplies food to houses, what supplies goods |
| 11:56 | <supermop_Home> | is a luxury like rum or refined sugar really just goods |
| 11:58 | <supermop_Home> | macadamia nuts i don't think are distinct from pineapples in terms of cargo flow |
| 11:58 | <nielsm> | it would kind of make most sense to deliver the consumer goods to a "retail distribution center" of sorts |
| 11:58 | <supermop_Home> | i guess andy did all this already |
| 11:59 | <supermop_Home> | nielsm or airfreight warehouse that spawns next to large airports? |
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| 12:02 | <supermop_Home> | i got Taro Farm, Sugar Plantation, Coffee Plantation, Pineapple Farm, Mac nut grove, Logging camp, (Import ports) |
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| 12:57 | <@DorpsGek> | [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison opened issue #9788: [Crash]: Crash on Mac OSX when using 32-bpp basest https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/9788 |
| 12:58 | <supermop_Home> | then Sugar Refinery, Packing plant, lumber mill, (export ports) |
| 12:59 | <supermop_Home> | seems plenty to provide background scenery |
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| 14:29 | <andythenorth> | yo |
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| 15:05 | <supermop_Home> | hi andy |
| 15:07 | <Gustavo6046> | why isn't there a way to see the financial flow of your company? like a directed graph that shows where money comes and goes |
| 15:07 | <Gustavo6046> | probably because nobody thinked about it and tbh it's a bit of a weird idea |
| 15:08 | <supermop_Home> | there is the financial details window |
| 15:08 | <andythenorth> | cos it's not needed? :) |
| 15:08 | <supermop_Home> | it shows the costs and revenues for various things |
| 15:09 | <Gustavo6046> | yeah |
| 15:09 | <supermop_Home> | anything more detailed than that, the game doesn't know either |
| 15:09 | <Gustavo6046> | but visual intuition could help, also a graph structuer is more flexible and could allow, say, displaying grouped vehicles separately |
| 15:09 | <Gustavo6046> | so you can tell which routes are more profitable |
| 15:09 | <Gustavo6046> | well, "it doesn't know" sometimes is a good reason, sometimes not - you can add members to the vehicle group struct that tally things like that, you know! |
| 15:09 | <Gustavo6046> | I forgot the name for the graph thing that shows where money goes |
| 15:10 | <Gustavo6046> | like directed graph |
| 15:10 | <supermop_Home> | your money doesn't go anywhere tho, its all just held in one big pile |
| 15:11 | <Gustavo6046> | true |
| 15:11 | <Gustavo6046> | but in a business model, there are multiple sources and sinks where money comes from and goes to |
| 15:12 | <Gustavo6046> | hmm |
| 15:12 | <Gustavo6046> | you're right, maybe it'd make more sense if there was more financial depth to the game, like idk, regional franchising with AI? |
| 15:12 | <supermop_Home> | the running costs etc are shown in the financial details window |
| 15:12 | <Gustavo6046> | hmm |
| 15:12 | <Gustavo6046> | would "looks cool" be a good enough reason? |
| 15:12 | <supermop_Home> | sure |
| 15:13 | <supermop_Home> | but for most people it probably looks like work |
| 15:13 | <supermop_Home> | i have to stress out about budgeting enough at work already |
| 15:14 | <supermop_Home> | there is also the difficulty of, beyond the running cost of a group, how do you allocate their share of the infrastructure costs |
| 15:18 | <Gustavo6046> | hmm |
| 15:19 | <Gustavo6046> | if there is a function internally that iterates over every vehicle to calculate infrastructure costs, in that loop you figure the individual contribution before adding it to a infrrastructure cost accumulator variable, right? put it somewhere else too and use that "somewhere else" |
| 15:19 | <supermop_Home> | andythenorth where do macadamia nuts go |
| 15:20 | <Gustavo6046> | also, looks like work? most people in office jobs don't do cool diagrams, they do boring spreadsheets, they are minnows in capitalism |
| 15:21 | <supermop_Home> | infrastructure costs are generated by pieces of track, not vehicles |
| 15:21 | <Gustavo6046> | oh |
| 15:21 | <Gustavo6046> | then you probably don't group tracks... |
| 15:21 | <Gustavo6046> | OR you let the player define like "regions" of the map |
| 15:21 | <Gustavo6046> | it's pretty much just giving a name to an area of arbitrary shape |
| 15:22 | <Gustavo6046> | so let's say this chunk of tiles here is the Bentford-Ashway Area |
| 15:22 | <Gustavo6046> | and this other chunk of tiles here is the Minfing-Judith Market Area |
| 15:22 | <supermop_Home> | but a train service can still be unprofitable even if the trains earn more revenue than running costs, if the cost of the track they run on is high |
| 15:23 | <Gustavo6046> | like maybe this player in particular likes making large central lines and small feeder networks around each end, and call each area after it |
| 15:23 | <Gustavo6046> | supermop_Home, well, that will be representable in the graph; a thick line will come from "Train Income" to the pool, and two lines whose summed width is larger will jot out, one to "Train Running Costs", one to "Infrastructure Costs", the thing is the latter might also be for every other kind of transportation |
| 15:23 | <supermop_Home> | well yes, accounting for all these ways to divide up costs and revenue is down to decisions the player makes, not anything the game could know about it's internal state |
| 15:23 | <Gustavo6046> | so we might be looking at grouping infrastructure costs by vehicle type too |
| 15:24 | <Gustavo6046> | yeah |
| 15:24 | <Gustavo6046> | maybe some other kind of accounting reltaed notetaking would be nice |
| 15:24 | <supermop_Home> | so i guess its best to just keep excel open in another window if that interests you? |
| 15:25 | <supermop_Home> | i think there ar ways to export game information to csv or something |
| 15:25 | <supermop_Home> | but this is basically accounting |
| 15:25 | <supermop_Home> | if i found accounting to be that fun, i'd be an accountant |
| 15:27 | <supermop_Home> | i wouldn't complain if the game had more graphs and spreadsheets, i just don't think i would look at them much personally? |
| 15:28 | <supermop_Home> | i guess money feels too meaningless in the game to fret over it much |
| 15:28 | <Gustavo6046> | true |
| 15:28 | <Gustavo6046> | money in the game is a bit of a shallow thing |
| 15:29 | <supermop_Home> | as even with very punishing settings, there are ways to quickly make more money than you need |
| 15:29 | <Gustavo6046> | you either have a lot or you have a little or you're in debt and unable to fix it and about to lose the game |
| 15:29 | <Gustavo6046> | I was thinking it could be considered like some sort of score counter, like in arcade games, so people would race to maximize it |
| 15:29 | <Gustavo6046> | capitalism in a nutshell |
| 15:30 | <supermop_Home> | i play to make cute little trains drive around |
| 15:30 | <supermop_Home> | everything else is just the scenery |
| 15:31 | <Gustavo6046> | yay |
| 15:31 | <_dp_> | game economy is dead simple, even in money goal games you don't need fancy diagrams to analyze it |
| 15:31 | <Gustavo6046> | i play to move cargo around |
| 15:31 | <Gustavo6046> | I really like cargodist |
| 15:31 | <Gustavo6046> | because it makes it feel more fun to transport cargo around |
| 15:31 | <Gustavo6046> | it's like each little city you add to the network has an impact in the netire network |
| 15:31 | <_dp_> | there is already grouping by transport type and vehicle groups and there are patches for income by cargo but that's about it |
| 15:32 | <Gustavo6046> | and sometimes it's all you need for a line to become congested and needing some expansion or something |
| 15:32 | <Gustavo6046> | which is so satisfying, adds depth to the honestly boring simplicity of transport |
| 15:32 | <Gustavo6046> | the vehicles themselves don't excite me a whole lot either |
| 15:33 | <Gustavo6046> | unlike some people here, I'm not going to be browsing for the names and stats of 900 engines from manufacturers all across the world from various periods in modern history :p |
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| 16:26 | <supermop_Home> | listening to podcast now nielsm |
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| 17:04 | <_dp_> | is there some way to avoid typing same directory over and over when searching different patterns with grep/ag? |
| 17:05 | <FLHerne> | !$ ? |
| 17:06 | <FLHerne> | (expands to last part of the previous command) |
| 17:06 | <FLHerne> | so `grep foo aaa/bbb` `greb bar !$` |
| 17:07 | <_dp_> | yeah, but what if last is not grep |
| 17:07 | <_dp_> | I kinda found an ok solution though |
| 17:07 | <_dp_> | echo ../src | xargs ag test |
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| --- | Log | closed Wed Jan 12 00:00:25 2022 |