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#openttd IRC Logs for 2022-01-17

---Logopened Mon Jan 17 00:00:32 2022
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04:13<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Ufiby commented on pull request #9789: Feature: Technology progresses independently of game time https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/9789#issuecomment-1014296331
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05:48<andythenorth>do we think GSCargoMonitor is expensive?
05:49<andythenorth>I might try monitoring % passengers transported monthly, by putting a cargo monitor in every town and walking over them
05:50<Cursarion>oh, there'll be a fix for the game time thing? neat
05:51<FLHerne>well, people have been writing patches to modify that for years
05:51<FLHerne>probably too early to say whether this one will satisfy all the different views on how to do it
05:55<LordAro>"will" is probably a bit strong
05:55<LordAro>also "fix"
06:16<Cursarion>one fix to rule them all
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06:23<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #9789: Feature: Technology progresses independently of game time https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/9789#issuecomment-1014414334
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07:03<andythenorth_>ok so I want to teach GS to build pylon objects between power station and certain industries
07:03<andythenorth_>it's pathfinding, plus some book-keeping about which tiles belong to which edge
07:04<andythenorth_>I have no idea how to store edges
07:04<andythenorth_>this must be a solved problem in programming?
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07:22<andythenorth_>they need stored so they can be removed if one of the industries is removed
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08:48<andythenorth>does the game have pathfinders that could be exposed to NoGo / NoAI?
08:49<andythenorth>me writing my own A* or something in squirrel seems like it will go badly lolz
08:52<LordAro>there are libraries
08:56<andythenorth>I looked at SuperLib for roads
08:56<andythenorth>but it would need refactoring from roads to [other things]
08:57<LordAro>there's a generic a* library for AIs, at least
08:57<LordAro>and indeed specific rail & road libraries
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08:57<LordAro>probably not been "duplicated" for GS
09:08<andythenorth>or I didn't find it yet...
09:44<supermop_Home>yo
09:45<_dp_>there is no pathfinder in gs api but there is a priority queue now
09:48<supermop_Home>can objects be placed after map creation by newgrf? or only by gs?
09:48<supermop_Home>I assume andy wants to plant transmission lines
09:49<supermop_Home>we need NewFields
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10:11<_dp_>even gs only got object placement in 12.0
10:17<supermop_Home>fields would be nice for ranches, forests, and national parks I guess
10:17<supermop_Home>or beach industries
10:19<supermop_Home>mostly i'd just like differentiated pineapple vs sugarcane fields
10:22<supermop_Home>would also be neat to have farms close or drop production when they get too hemmed in by towns
10:25<supermop_Home>well that's all getting ahead of myself
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12:02<supermop_Home>oops I just found out I am supposed to work today
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12:17<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] benda updated pull request #9770: Fix #9765: Incorrect Company Values https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/9770
12:18<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] benda commented on pull request #9770: Fix #9765: Incorrect Company Values https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/9770#pullrequestreview-854656609
12:19<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] benda commented on pull request #9770: Fix #9765: Incorrect Company Values https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/9770#pullrequestreview-854657137
12:19<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] benda commented on pull request #9770: Fix #9765: Incorrect Company Values https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/9770#pullrequestreview-854657292
12:19<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] benda commented on pull request #9770: Fix #9765: Incorrect Company Values https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/9770#pullrequestreview-854657377
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13:10<andythenorth>can we have a pathfinder in the GS API? :P
13:10<andythenorth>or I can try and adapt the superlib road one, but eh
13:10<andythenorth>also is there any way to attach buttons to e.g. industries?
13:10<nielsm>no way to add buttons to industries, no
13:11<nielsm>for GS, you'll have to have the player start the interaction in a storybook page
13:12*andythenorth considering various ways to connect power stations to substations
13:12<andythenorth>or provide power in towns
13:13<andythenorth>one option is GS just fills in pylon objects where needed, no player interaction except placing substation industry
13:13<andythenorth>another option is storybook gives a list of all substations, then the option to connect each one to a power station
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13:50<andythenorth>anyway first a pathfinder :P
13:55<bkilm[m]>Does anybody know of another business simulator game that reminds you of Transport Tycoon but of orders of magnitudes less complexity (and micromanagement)?
13:56<Gustavo6046>unfortunately my body has never heard of circadian rhythm
13:56<andythenorth>Pocket Trains :P
13:56<bkilm[m]>Thanks, I'll have a look for some inspiration. Although, I only play FOSS games. 🤷
13:57<Gustavo6046>Hmm, business in OpenTTD is a bit too simplistic to me. People play it because they like trains, I play it because I like the intricacy of people moving around. I would be interested if there was a way to add depth to the business model, perhaps even in such a way that the player can modify its modus operandi in some ways.
13:57<+glx>andythenorth: maybe you can convert https://bananas.openttd.org/package/ai-library/4752412a into a GS lib
13:57<+glx>oh but there is https://bananas.openttd.org/package/game-script-library/4747412a
13:58<andythenorth>oo
13:59<LordAro>I have caused GNAT to hang by having a short git commit hash that could be interpreted as an integer
13:59<LordAro>That is all.
14:00<bkilm[m]>Gustavo6046: Sure, trains and trucks are fun to look at, but at the end of the game, what matters is only whether you could achieve exponential growth on your charts given a finite amount of loan. Everything else is just eye candy.
14:01*andythenorth has a look at graph.aystar
14:01<andythenorth>I suspect pylons are a terrible idea because they're discontinuous
14:01<andythenorth>so they could e.g. be either side of a skyscraper
14:01<Gustavo6046>bkilm[m], :D
14:01<Gustavo6046>that's what I like to read!
14:02<bkilm[m]>Gustavo6046: I mean, just for kicks, I once played an OpenTTD game where I build almost nothing (just a single bus serving two stops to keep me from going bankrupt). I only bought and sold stocks and could actually win at the end, but it took quite a few decades.
14:02<Gustavo6046>lol
14:02<Gustavo6046>you mean loaned and paid off?
14:03<bkilm[m]>With 8 starting players (all bots, but I preselected to only enable the smartest bots), it was quite easy to get into top 3 within 10-20 years, but then fighting the Big Oil required quite some amount of strategy and watching the stock exchange charts carefully.
14:03<Gustavo6046>stock exchange?
14:03<Gustavo6046>you can buy and sell stock... in OpenTTD?
14:03<Gustavo6046>:OOOOO
14:03<bkilm[m]>Yes
14:04<bkilm[m]>I thought that was the main goal of the game 😉
14:04<andythenorth>but maybe the GS can avoid town zones
14:04<Gustavo6046>I didn't know that!
14:04<andythenorth>and maybe the objects can adapt to neighbouring tiles
14:04<Gustavo6046>All I do is buy a fun network, pay off my loan, then gradually expand the transport network
14:04<bkilm[m]> https://wiki.openttd.org/en/Manual/Economy#share-trading
14:05<Gustavo6046>What AIs are compatible with both industry replacement and 2cc vehicle NewGRFs?
14:05<andythenorth>anyway it's way more interesting trying to build stuff like power lines in GS + grf
14:06<bkilm[m]>Gustavo6046: For example, their stock can go up and down pretty sharply as they build out their networks or are effected by recession, subsidies, productions downturn, UFO and stuff like that. Buy when it is down and sell when it is high. Follow the news promptly. Kind of analogous with real life.
14:07<Gustavo6046>oooh
14:07<bkilm[m]>By the way, in most cases, you must not buy 100% of any company until the very end. Until you own only up to 75%, they are micromanaging instead of you and if you have invested right, their growth brings you income.
14:09<bkilm[m]>Again, when playing this game, I didn't have to build or micromanage anything basically. I did fix a UFO crash site once just out of boredom, though, but with my economy, the effect wasn't really noticeable. Too bad I didn't do a recording, but I didn't know it was going to end so well.
14:10<LordAro>sounds like a super boring way of playing the game, to me
14:10<LordAro>but who am i to argue?
14:10<bkilm[m]>Yeah, I probably wouldn't repeat that 😄
14:11<bkilm[m]>It was exciting at a different level though - following nervously whether the given event will result in the anticipated effect. Kind of like a real stock exchange simulator with real life-like events causing the chart movements.
14:11<Gustavo6046>basically you profit off of other people's work
14:11<Gustavo6046>ah yes, capitalism :p
14:12<bkilm[m]>Just built out a 256+ railway line across a map two years ago! It's so fun to navigate all your town, industries and trains on the same two-lane bus line. Although that was also super boring to build due to the all the terrain work.
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14:12<bkilm[m]>Actually, it would be an interesting multi-player component to add: you can't build anything, but could participate in stocks!!
14:13<bkilm[m]>It is rare to see a multi-modal game that you can play at so different levels in real time at once.
14:14<bkilm[m]>Sorry for the typo, it was not two years ago it was two days ago!
14:16<bkilm[m]>By the way, I had to keep open so many windows at the same time (news, disaster inspection live view, running profits, vehicles, company values, current shares overview, the actions of newcomers), I wished OpenTTD had support for multi-monitors.
14:17<wiscii>adding an app-free view port that can be moved to a second screen .. hmm :)
14:18<wiscii>Gustavo6046: i have a very early server up if you like to play
14:18<wiscii>now that i am awake!
14:19<wiscii>anybody else too
14:20<wiscii>name tct pass wiscii
14:20<Gustavo6046>loll
14:20<Gustavo6046>bkilm[m], or docking multiple windows together
14:20<Gustavo6046>wiscii, hello! :D
14:20<wiscii>hi :)
14:20<Gustavo6046>I'm watching a video on aoe2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taGNDAB-VYg but I'll check the server once I'm done
14:22<wiscii>checkout "The spiffing brit"
14:23<wiscii>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msr27PwObVM
14:23<Gustavo6046>I know TSB
14:23<Gustavo6046>he's a fun bloke
14:23<wiscii>;-)
14:23<Gustavo6046>he does stuff like idk, exploiting economies in games, or the Steam inventory item market
14:24<Gustavo6046>he once profited off of market manipulation with CS:GO items in Steam
14:24<wiscii>he taught me how to beat AOEii
14:24<Gustavo6046>what??
14:24<Gustavo6046>he did aoe2?
14:24<wiscii>that link above :)
14:24<Gustavo6046>oh okay
14:24<Gustavo6046>I also watched his video on the cookie clicker thing
14:25<wiscii>oh yeah, i rember that, to make magic items like a fork or something
14:25<wiscii>over powered stuff
14:27<bkilm[m]>Do you think these pages are up to date? Do you think there exist some other unwritten conventions that you follow? https://wiki.openttd.org/en/Community/Play%20Style/Multiplayer%20Rules https://wiki.openttd.org/en/Community/Multiplayer%20cheating
14:27<Gustavo6046>I also remember when he made a video on the GameStop stocks ruse
14:30<wiscii>bkilm[m]: guidelines ?
14:32<LordAro>bkilm[m]: if it doubt, the wiki is out of date :p
14:33<wiscii>the "rules" are still generally valid ..
14:39<wiscii>what a pita - i tried the "Apollo NewGFX" and some eye-candy stuff. There is no grain hopper in the current game and cannot be refitted
14:39<wiscii>pfft..
14:39<bkilm[m]>Yes, I ask because I'm not a very experience player, but I added some cheats in there just recently.
14:39<bkilm[m]>And I also noticed that certain servers share their code of conducts of sorts via short messages that scroll away very quickly.
14:40<bkilm[m]>It would be nice to have a section that at least lists the kind of behavior that some of the servers may enforce. If you played on a lot of servers before, you probably have more data point than I do.
14:48<wiscii>bkilm[m]: i guess all those public servers have rules ..
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14:50<bkilm[m]>Yes, and it would be nice to document that in the wiki for other server operators.
14:50<bkilm[m]>For example, we played on a server where there were no rules pinned, that could have been interpreted to mean that industry competition is allowed, while it should be just the opposite by default (from the perspective of having fun together).
14:58<wiscii>i wouldn't sweat it -- if you win then maybe others will try the same idea ;-)
15:00<wiscii>does anybody know a good font to use in linux for ottd
15:01<wiscii>the only one that works for me is the defult system fallback font
15:01<wiscii>the rest are all hairline thin
15:02<frosch123>"medium_font = DejaVu Sans, bold" + "medium_size = 12"
15:04<wiscii>frosch123: without the quotes, right ?
15:04<wiscii>and , bold for bold
15:04<frosch123>yes, i think i even put that in the wiki
15:04<wiscii>oh, let me see
15:05<frosch123>https://wiki.openttd.org/en/Archive/Community/FAQ%20troubleshooting#linux
15:06<wiscii>thanks, that is exactly what i was looking for :)
15:08<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LC-Zorg commented on pull request #9789: Feature: Technology progresses independently of game time https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/9789#issuecomment-1014854579
15:10<andythenorth>right let's see how to aystar
15:11<andythenorth>hmm I don't get it https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/9789#issuecomment-1014854579
15:11<andythenorth>does anyone get it?
15:12<andythenorth>oh nvm
15:13<andythenorth>I mean LC literally rejected groundhog year https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/8749#issuecomment-796053634
15:14<andythenorth>ok trying to figure out the interface to Yexo's Aystar GS lib https://gist.githubusercontent.com/andythenorth/499a2257acb620f920ddb73476b57f94/raw/34af449fabc8936dafb3654ba5988f4d6ec00382/gistfile1.txt
15:16<_dp_>andythenorth, doesn't he just want groundhog as a cheat?
15:16<_dp_>and don't ask me how is that different from a setting :p
15:16<andythenorth>I do not understand
15:16<andythenorth>LC is usually right about something
15:16<andythenorth>but stopped clock twice a day
15:17<andythenorth>is also correct
15:20<supermop_Home>why not just turn on vehicles never expire
15:20<supermop_Home>and not buy any modern trains
15:21<andythenorth>buildings and stuff
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15:24<supermop_Home>use a town set with homogenous buildings?
15:25<andythenorth>hmm how do I use a GS lib?
15:25<andythenorth>I seem to have imported Aystar
15:26<andythenorth>but I can't figure out the lib interface
15:27<andythenorth>programming NoGo is such a guessing game
15:30<andythenorth>cargo culting
15:30<andythenorth>so SuperLib is used as e.g.
15:30<andythenorth>Helper <- SuperLib.Helper;
15:30<andythenorth>but
15:30<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #9789: Feature: Technology progresses independently of game time https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/9789#issuecomment-1014868164
15:30<andythenorth>Aystar <- Aystar.Ayster
15:30<andythenorth>is not found
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15:31<andythenorth>ignore the typo
15:31<andythenorth>Aystar.Aystar not found
15:31<andythenorth>Graph.Aystar is not found
15:31<andythenorth>Aystar.Graph.Aystar is not found
15:31<andythenorth>Graph.Aystar.Aystar is not found
15:31<andythenorth>GGA* throws an expression error
15:33<andythenorth>my import is
15:33<andythenorth>import("graph.aystar", "AyStar", 6);
15:34<_dp_>by far the most popular question on cm server with tech progression is "why no maglev"
15:34<_dp_>it's 2100, ppl want maglev or riot :p
15:35<frosch123>make a railtype grf that switches graphics in some year :p
15:35<supermop_Home>isn't getting better technology the richer/better you play sort of an inverse gameplay curve?
15:35<frosch123>though maglev tracks are really ugly
15:36<supermop_Home>frosch123 zeph's reworked ones in opengfx thread look better
15:36<supermop_Home>but yes, I prefer no maglev
15:36<andythenorth>lol squirrel programming seems much worse than grf
15:36<andythenorth>the language does very poorly for google results
15:36<andythenorth>mostly I get actual squirrels
15:36<supermop_Home>really a GS should take locomotives away from you the better you do
15:36<_dp_>supermop_Home, no, why? it just adds some variety in unlock order
15:37<andythenorth>how do I instantiate a module?
15:37<supermop_Home>"oh you think you're hot shit with your big profitable coal route? Well let's see you do with Kirby pauls only"
15:37<LordAro>andythenorth: are you sure graph.aystar is in gs_libraries, rather than just ai_libraries ?
15:37<andythenorth>yes
15:37<LordAro>(or whatever the folders are called)
15:38<andythenorth>the first import doesn't fail
15:38<LordAro>i can't remember how to import libraries, see what aroai did :p
15:38<andythenorth>but I can't reference anything without an assignment
15:38<andythenorth>currently just cargo culting stuff from http://scrat.sourceforge.net/import.html
15:38<andythenorth>2009 'beta state' top google result
15:38<andythenorth>GG
15:38<+glx>look how the lib imports binary queue
15:39<andythenorth>what's the second param?
15:39<andythenorth>empty anyway :)
15:40<supermop_Home>although, would an isolated island land that has an all powerful transport company making boatloads of money with steam engines ever see any impetus to develop diesels or electrics?
15:40<supermop_Home>the fuel never runs out, the stoker labor is free, no one ever complains about the polution
15:41<+glx>pathfinder.road does _aystar_class = import("graph.aystar", "", 6) in Road class
15:41<+glx>then this._pathfinder = this._aystar_class(this, this._Cost, this._Estimate, this._Neighbours, this._CheckDirection); in constructor
15:41<LordAro>http://www.squirrel-lang.org/doc/squirrel2.html#d0e961
15:41<LordAro>i think Zuu was the only one to ever use the <- mechanisms
15:42<andythenorth>oh that's interesting
15:42<andythenorth>_aystar_class = import("graph.aystar", "", 6);
15:42<andythenorth>just fails for me
15:42<andythenorth>but works in pathfinder.road
15:43<andythenorth>ok so it needs some scope thing
15:43<andythenorth>squirrel has this weird thing where everything is in a table?
15:43<+glx>yes
15:43<andythenorth>it's such a cartoon language
15:43<supermop_Home>andythenorth my tiny Hawaii style map with firs, NG trains are just barely hanging on, but looking cute
15:44<andythenorth>local _aystar_class = import("graph.aystar", "", 6);
15:44<andythenorth>is the only way I found so far to not get errors
15:44<andythenorth>what's the weird :: notation that I keep seeing
15:44<+glx>members implementation
15:45*andythenorth reads docs
15:45<frosch123>CityBuilder GS uses aystar
15:45<frosch123>did you check that one already?
15:45<frosch123>whenever i need an example, I just grep in content_download
15:45<andythenorth>same
15:46<andythenorth>I have to use that slots notation for globals I think
15:46<andythenorth>foo <- foo.foo.foo.foo()
15:46<andythenorth>but locals are declared as local = foo
15:46*andythenorth not a good learner
15:47<frosch123>iirc "<-" works always, while "=" fails for undefined variables
15:47<frosch123>definition vs. assignment
15:48<andythenorth>yup, I learn this every 6 months for last 2 years :P
15:48<andythenorth>then forget
15:48<andythenorth>can we embed Rust in OpenTTD? :P
15:52<andythenorth>ok maybe I just abuse the road pathfinder
15:52<andythenorth>seems Aystar needs a lot of scaffolding I don't have yet
15:57<_dp_>andythenorth, wasm? ;)
16:01<frosch123>don't scare andy with css guis :p
16:01<andythenorth>well this doesn't crash https://gist.githubusercontent.com/andythenorth/73712840bc08bbc407af72dd7f420b81/raw/337f01bd3fb960900ed0cefaef538d86c1af99a5/gistfile1.txt
16:02<andythenorth>doesn't give me a useful result yet
16:03<_dp_>frosch123, css is optional ;)
16:03<_dp_>if anything it's gs that needs css or smth to describe guis, wasm can just call methods directly
16:04<andythenorth>local bar = foo.FindPath(10000);
16:04<andythenorth>gives me null
16:05<andythenorth>https://wiki.openttd.org/AI:RoadPathfinder
16:05<andythenorth>polish version :) https://wiki.openttd.org/pl/Development/Script/SI/RoadPathfinder
16:06<andythenorth>bingo https://wiki.openttd.org/en/Development/Script/RoadPathfinder
16:06<andythenorth>docs ftw
16:06<andythenorth>what a great community :)
16:13<andythenorth>lol why does opening console change the value of GS constants?
16:13<andythenorth>that's funny
16:13<andythenorth>GIT_VERSION <- "4.4.0-123-g310516fe"; is declared as a constant
16:13<andythenorth>but the GSText display of it increments the value when I open / close console with ~
16:14<+glx>maybe just GetString effect
16:18<andythenorth>trying this https://gist.githubusercontent.com/andythenorth/3175a5c9dd9f0267a6b156ce66923ae7/raw/03e4503fc6f962427a3f14800d81d94bd0ecd7b4/gistfile1.txt
16:19<andythenorth>still null after many months on ffwd
16:19<+glx>path from tile 0 to tile 1 ?
16:20<andythenorth>yup
16:20<andythenorth>I tried others
16:20<andythenorth>wanted the shortest route :P
16:20<andythenorth>should still return a route of 2 tiles?
16:20<+glx>but is there a possible road path from 0 to 1 ?
16:21<+glx>road pathfinder "tries" to build road tiles
16:22<andythenorth>so it might be water
16:22<andythenorth>ok
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16:24*andythenorth adapted the AI docs example
16:25<andythenorth>wow pathfinding is slow
16:25<andythenorth>12 months to find a path
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16:26<TrueBrain>https://twitter.com/dannyodwyer/status/1482178903867211779 <- well, that is the end of OpenTTD, right? :D
16:28<+glx>gold rush feeling
16:29<andythenorth>Team17 though!
16:29<andythenorth>did Worms
16:29<+glx>they also edit many cool games
16:29<wiscii>oh yeah! they did
16:29<TrueBrain>as I said, end of OpenTTD :P
16:30<supermop_Home>I would 100% play a team 17 transit game
16:30<andythenorth>vertigo camera angle though
16:31<wiscii>unlikely to have a "free" play mode (in all sense of the word)
16:37<supermop_Home>need a first person transport game
16:41<andythenorth>if (GSMap.DistanceManhattan(path.GetTile(), par.GetTile()) == 1 ) {
16:41<andythenorth>'expression expected'
16:42<andythenorth>taken from https://wiki.openttd.org/en/Development/Script/RoadPathfinder but ported to GS
16:45<andythenorth>not convinced that example is useful for my case
16:48<supermop_Home>i'd pay for this thing
16:49<supermop_Home>the bridges remind me of brio
16:53<nielsm>expectation expressed: expression expected
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16:59<_dp_>and Mashinky is finally getting a multiplayer
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17:10<wiscii>i just started a new game but it kept my old selection of cargo type in available trains
17:12<andythenorth>lol https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/337701432230805505/932759325812854824/unknown.png?width=2248&height=1179
17:12<andythenorth>I guess that's working then :D
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17:24*andythenorth now in OpenTTD source
17:25<andythenorth>trying to work out how to choose an object to build
17:25<andythenorth>there seems to be no ID
17:25<andythenorth>and string matching the name is failing
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17:26<andythenorth>_dp_ using this https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/9568
17:26<andythenorth>how do I select the object to build?
17:28<_dp_>well, you have the list of all objects
17:28<_dp_>idk how you want to select it
17:28<+glx>ObjectType API is quite limited
17:28<nielsm>presumably by something like GRFID and an ID within that GRF
17:29<_dp_>some more methods may be needed to navigate that list
17:29<andythenorth>probably GRFID and ID within that GRF
17:29<_dp_>or some labels
17:30<_dp_>I've no idea how to approach grf-gs interoperability in general
17:31<_dp_>so in that PR I only did the bare minimum
17:31<andythenorth>well the first thing might be to expose a numeric ID if there is one
17:31<andythenorth>yup understood, it's proof of concept :)
17:31<nielsm>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/src/newgrf_object.h#L58-L97
17:31<+glx>numeric ID is internal to openttd usually
17:32<_dp_>I wouldn't call it PoC as what it does it does fine, just more methods may be needed to use it effectively
17:33<+glx>yeah it's possible to build objects, but selection is quite random ;)
17:33<andythenorth>yeah the numeric ID does not match up
17:34<andythenorth>I ran a counter on the list
17:34<+glx>ObjectType is the ID
17:35<+glx>but the value depends on other loaded grf, and the load order
17:35<nielsm>yeah if you want a specific object from a specific GRF, you'd need to expose data from the grf_prop member in ObjectSpec
17:36<+glx>should be possible as we now expose the grf list to GS
17:37<+glx>object class may be a good info too
17:37<nielsm>and the flags
17:38<nielsm>and the size
17:42<andythenorth>lol I eventually got the Auz pylon by guessing IDs
17:42<andythenorth>https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/337701432230805505/932766678587146260/unknown.png?width=1922&height=1298
17:42<andythenorth>it's a road pathfinder so it only does 90 degree turns
17:43<andythenorth>it's also avoiding water :P
17:43<+glx>unless it can bridge
17:43<nielsm>apparently it can cross 4 tiles, unless there's water between then it can more? :)
17:44<nielsm>the part where it goes past the river
17:44<andythenorth>the road pathfinder seems to understand bridges and tunnels
17:44<andythenorth>and it could build a different object for undersea cables
17:45<andythenorth>this is quite interesting
17:45<andythenorth>most fun I've had since Train Whack
17:45<andythenorth>GS is all very different once you assume the GS and industry grf have shared information
17:46<andythenorth>so the GS actually...knows what things are and what they are for in game
17:47<andythenorth>hmm randomised pylons?
17:47<andythenorth>also the pathfinder is...rather slow
17:47<andythenorth>multiple months
17:48<andythenorth>does the game pathfinder take months? :P
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18:33<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Hevlikn opened issue #9791: [Bug]: Sawmill acceptance limitations https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/9791
18:55<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Hevlikn commented on issue #9791: [Bug]: Sawmill acceptance limitations https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/9791
18:57<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #9791: [Bug]: Sawmill acceptance limitations https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/9791
19:00<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Hevlikn commented on issue #9791: [Bug]: Sawmill acceptance limitations https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/9791
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20:12<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler commented on issue #9791: [Bug]: Sawmill acceptance limitations https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/9791
20:13<supermop_Home>should I draw the last two tropic offices next, even though the base sprites are not bad? or the vertical tube building? or the HQs?
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20:22<supermop_Home>is the most salient feature of the vertical tube building that it's: A) Round, A')Not just round but specifically a cylinder, B)Weird looking in general, or C) that it has an unusual expressed structure, in an Archigram sort of way (with unusual contructio
20:22<supermop_Home>construction stages
20:23<supermop_Home>I'd say A is sort of important, but that it is mostly B and C
20:24<supermop_Home>as its really the first (only?) post 1994/5 building in the game, so it originally functions as a "wow now you are in the future" signifier
20:25<supermop_Home>and the weird hanging structure seems to be a nod to Archigram, but also Foster and Rogers - a sort of specifically British idea of futurism
20:26<supermop_Home>I love the sentiment behind it, but man do I hate that sprite
20:30<supermop_Home>the problem with any fun and playful building in the base set is that it generally gets built ad naseum
20:31<supermop_Home>You could say, redesign it to just be a more normal but round building - that way it will look different, but not crazy.
20:32<supermop_Home>but a city full of boring plain cylindrical buildings will still look stupid without any of the fun of it being crazy
20:33<supermop_Home>probably the best course of action is just drawing it has a pretty boring early 2000s rectangular building, but that seems to defy the spirit of being a base set
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22:07<Gustavo6046><supermop_Home> is the most salient feature of the vertical tube building that it's: A) Round [...]
22:07<Gustavo6046>Ah yes, tubes are round
22:07<Gustavo6046>:D
22:08<Gustavo6046>sorry, it just sounds kinda funny out of context
22:08<Gustavo6046>Also, reiterating a question from earlier that I don't think got answered
22:08<Gustavo6046><Gustavo6046> What AIs are compatible with both industry replacement and 2cc vehicle NewGRFs?
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---Logclosed Tue Jan 18 00:00:34 2022