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#openttd IRC Logs for 2022-01-19

---Logopened Wed Jan 19 00:00:35 2022
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09:52<supermop_work>yo
09:52<supermop_work>back at office
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10:55<supermop_work>what are people's thoughts on buildings not being orthogonal to the tile?
10:56<supermop_work>i feel like its weird if a wall faces the camera directly
11:49<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler opened pull request #9792: Feature: Remember the last-used signal between games https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/9792
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11:59<LordAro>what a new and interesting idea in #9792
12:00<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler updated pull request #9792: Feature: Remember the last-used signal between games https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/9792
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12:09<andythenorth_>yo
12:10<@peter1138>What am I meant to do with a bottle of Prosecco?
12:10<LordAro>pretend you've won a race
12:11<andythenorth_>put it in a pie
12:11<TrueBrain>Time to close that new PR, it adds a setting. Right? :p
12:11<@peter1138>Christ that's never going to happen.
12:11<andythenorth_>drink it?
12:11<andythenorth_>whilst complaining?
12:11<andythenorth_>that's what I do
12:11<dale>Drink the whole bottle and submit PRs?
12:11<TrueBrain>You do it without the drinking :D
12:20<@peter1138>Maybe bike ride
12:20<LordAro>bit dark
12:20<@peter1138>Got lights
12:21<@peter1138>Although a bit tired from 4 hours driving
12:23<LordAro>that's a lot
12:29<wiscii>how can somebody not know what to do with a bottle of prosecco ?
12:29<wiscii>if you don't drink then gift it
12:41<andythenorth_>make a sauce for duck
12:42<wiscii>why ruin a duck and a bottle of wine ?
12:43<dale>What if the sauce is for a duck to put on duck food?
12:44<wiscii>what if the duck is a concert pianist ..
12:47<dale>With just a beak and webbed feet? I'm very impressed, I can barely do chopsticks.
12:53<andythenorth_>_dp_ so GSObjectType.NewGRFResolveID() ?
12:53<wiscii>duck needs fingers to pour the sauce ?
12:53<_dp_>yep
12:53<andythenorth_>hmm
12:54<andythenorth_>wonder if there's anything to copy from elswhere
12:54<andythenorth_>e.g. neighbouring tile checks
12:56<_dp_>oh, btw, also probably GSIndustryType, not GSIndustry
12:57<andythenorth_>yup
12:57<andythenorth_>dunno if I can patch this or not :P
12:57<andythenorth_>limited brain
12:58<TrueBrain>limited editions are nice
13:15<andythenorth_>true editions
13:15<andythenorth_>did anyone NFT a grf yet?
13:16<frosch123>you can register your grfs on bananas, using a unique grfid
13:18<andythenorth_>git is almost a blockchain
13:20<LordAro>is it not? latest value depends on all the previous values
13:20*LordAro does not know blockchain
13:30<andythenorth_>me neither, but I tried "isn't git just a blockchain" and apparently I won't be going to the moon with that negative attitude
13:31<nielsm>git is missing the critical property of requiring to competitively guess at solutions to math problems to be permitted to add a new revision
13:32<andythenorth_>I was told it was the immutability of history, rather than proof of work that was missing
13:33<andythenorth_>git is trivial to rewrite?
13:33<nielsm>as long as you can get everyone else who wants to use the same history to agree on the rewrite
13:33*andythenorth_ waits for someone to point out blockchains are often trivial to rewrite
13:34<andythenorth_>and get forked due to politics, or theft
13:34<dwfreed>which is no different than forks on crypto blockchains :P
13:34<andythenorth_>DUDE HERESY
13:34<andythenorth_>blockchain is immutable store of value!
13:34<andythenorth_>beyond governments or banks
13:35<andythenorth_>but not beyond those with the root keys
13:35<andythenorth_>definitely crypto bros are much more trustworthy than government or banks
13:35<andythenorth_>when society collapses, you will be able to place your trust in coin
13:36<+glx>without electricity ?
13:36<andythenorth_>well the electricity will keep magically arriving
13:36<andythenorth_>nothing to do with society
13:36<andythenorth_>the generators are run by elves
13:37<andythenorth_>and driven by pixie dust
13:37<andythenorth_>ok so GS resolving the grf id
13:37<LordAro>nielsm: i find guessing at the correct programming solutions to be more interesting
13:37*andythenorth_ looks for code to copy
13:38<andythenorth_>hmm not even sure what needs compared with what
13:39<andythenorth_>searching 'grffile' seems a good place to find similar code
13:39*andythenorth_ wonders if Github copilot can extend GS for us
13:41<wiscii>is with 1984 being a warning not an instruction manual .. same goes for crypto-currency
13:41<andythenorth_>GetObjectIDAtOffset is where I am looking now
13:42<andythenorth_>I don't understand how the openttd internal ID for a grf item is found
13:42<andythenorth_>it just position in some list?
13:42<andythenorth_>is *
13:42<+glx>yes, index in the pools
13:42<+glx>or something
13:43<andythenorth_>so to resolve that with a grfid and id-in-the-grf, walk the pool, comparing?
13:43<andythenorth_>then return the pool index?
13:44<andythenorth_>the intended interface is something like GSObjectType.NewGRFResolveID(grfid, id_in_grf) -> id
13:44<andythenorth_>the term id here is so overloaded
13:44<+glx>main issue with id from grf is to be sure it's the correct grf file
13:45<frosch123>andythenorth_: "internal ObjectSpec index" = _object_mngr.GetID(grf_local_id, grf_id);
13:46<frosch123>repeat with similar _mngr objects
13:47<andythenorth_>ok so grf_local_id is the simple term :)
13:47<andythenorth_>helps a lot
13:56<@peter1138>Okay, apparently I napped.
13:56<andythenorth_>is that literally paste that line and return index?
13:56<andythenorth_>or do I need to adapt?
13:58<TrueBrain>hmm .. any reason NML doesnt have industry var64 listed? (Distance-to-industry)
13:58<andythenorth_>wondered if I could just do
13:58<andythenorth_> return _object_mngr.GetID(grf_local_id, grf_id);
13:58<andythenorth_>but with some validation for case of item not found
13:59<andythenorth_>TrueBrain I'll look :P
13:59<andythenorth_>is industry_distance not var 64?
13:59<TrueBrain>67
14:00<TrueBrain>"You may note that this variable can be used instead of variable 64."
14:00<TrueBrain>right
14:00<andythenorth_>superseded by 67
14:00<andythenorth_>no case for 64 I am aware of
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14:05<TrueBrain>I hate 67 and 68 already :P
14:06<TrueBrain>I don't want to add support for that :D Fuck other NewGRFs :P
14:07<frosch123>the are surprisingly similar to what andy wants to do with gs :p
14:08<andythenorth_>I am waiting for the first person to point out I'm trying to make grf in GS
14:08<andythenorth_>which I'm not
14:08<andythenorth_>but this channel has certain predictable patterns
14:09<frosch123>i am waiting for what pynut will look like
14:10<andythenorth_>why wait? https://github.com/andythenorth/firs/tree/gs-is-real/src/gs
14:11<frosch123>poor zuu
14:11<andythenorth_>I should change the readme eh
14:12<andythenorth_>fixed :)
14:13<TrueBrain>hmm .. var71 .. isn't that just 6c/6d in percentage?
14:14<andythenorth_>I think it's there for convenience
14:14<frosch123>TrueBrain: yes
14:14<TrueBrain>good
14:15<frosch123>the PR which added all the 60+x variable for 16 in/out cargos specifically left it out, because it was useless
14:15<frosch123>then people complained it was missing, and added a separare PR
14:15<TrueBrain>and I am not going to implement it again :P
14:16<andythenorth_>stuff and things
14:16<TrueBrain>with RPN it is easy enough to do it yourself
14:16<TrueBrain>saves me from dealing with a 0..255 bla :P
14:17<andythenorth_>I am enjoying this small compact elegant pynut code which 'reads' the value of one grf parameter https://github.com/andythenorth/firs/blob/gs-is-real/src/gs/firs.pynut
14:17<andythenorth_>I mean...we have grfid check and grfversion check for GS
14:17<andythenorth_>but parameters didn't make it so far :)
14:17<andythenorth_>I guess we're in for months of me asking very basic C++ and openttd src questions eh :)
14:18<TrueBrain>why does 60..66 have these offsets? What is the usecase?
14:18<andythenorth_>so you can walk around the layout
14:19<andythenorth_>or outside it
14:19<TrueBrain>ah, like that
14:19<andythenorth_>FIRS uses it for fences for example
14:19<TrueBrain>well, no negative offsets
14:19<TrueBrain>so outside is a bit hard in all sense of the word
14:19<TrueBrain>so how about the town manhattan distance?
14:19<TrueBrain>how is offset important there?
14:19<andythenorth_>oh maybe FIRS doesn't use those
14:19<andythenorth_>those are industry vars
14:19<frosch123>i think some of them were signed
14:19<frosch123>-8..7, -8..7
14:19<TrueBrain>lol, yeah, I just spotted some are frosch123 :P
14:20<TrueBrain>the Town ones are
14:20<andythenorth_>I think FIRS uses https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/VariationalAction2/Industry_Tiles#Land_info_of_nearby_tiles_.2860.29
14:20<TrueBrain>I just don't see why it matters whether you check one tile vs the other of distance to town?
14:20<TrueBrain>is that really relevant?
14:20<frosch123>maybe you can triangulate the position of the town, if you measure the distance from 3 tiles
14:21<andythenorth_>I'm unclear why these vars are useful
14:21<frosch123>TrueBrain: where is the distance-to-town in 60?
14:22<andythenorth_>not seeing I've ever used them yet?
14:22<frosch123>var60 is mostly for construction check
14:22<frosch123>like those ecs castles
14:22<frosch123>puzzle games etc
14:22<andythenorth_>maybe it lets you change production if center tile is too far from town
14:22<andythenorth_>or something
14:22<TrueBrain>frosch123: var65
14:24<andythenorth_>65 signed eh
14:24<frosch123>no idea, those vars were added before i joined, so they must be for ECS
14:24<andythenorth_>these don't look like nonsense, but they don't look massively useful
14:24<TrueBrain>I think I will just force it to 0, and await feedback on it :D
14:24<andythenorth_>I could guess some use cases, but eh
14:25<frosch123>oh, it's also possible that at that time just noone had any idea about newgrf
14:26<TrueBrain>if we in this comity can agree it is pointless and "0" is fine too, works for me :P
14:26<frosch123>2007 added some weird things to newgrf, which already existed elsewhere, just noone knew after patchman elft
14:27<TrueBrain>that happens :)
14:27<andythenorth_>'can always extend later' is a very powerful tool for progress :P
14:27<andythenorth_>big fan
14:27<TrueBrain>so offsets .. hmm ...
14:27<TrueBrain>industry:tile_id 1 [] 2 []
14:28<frosch123>ah, i can't wait until tb arrives at vehicles :) industries will appear so well-designed then
14:28<TrueBrain>or industry:tile_id 0x12 []
14:28<frosch123>nml has built-ins for that stuff
14:29<frosch123>so industry:tile_id 1 2 _built_in_tileoffset() []
14:29<TrueBrain>lol, so tempted to use that name now :P
14:29<TrueBrain>but yeah, sounds good
14:30<frosch123>hmm, gcc prefix is __builtin_ though :p
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14:35<frosch123>RPN is weird... builtins appear to be just string-replacements
14:36<frosch123>s/__builtin_tileoffset/0xF & 4 << |/g
14:38<frosch123>hmm, that is only one int4 cast, it needs two
14:38<frosch123>do you have some stack-rotation instructions?
14:38<TrueBrain>no(t yet) :P
14:39<TrueBrain>but I guess I need to allow functions to return values ... I can now, pretty easy now honestly. So I can just create a library of sorts that is always made available :D
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14:39<TrueBrain>but first ... how do I make this enum available in RPN, without duplicating it all .. hmm
14:41<frosch123>which enum this time?
14:41<TrueBrain>https://github.com/TrueBrain/TrueGRF/blob/main/truegrf-rs/src/grf/actions/variable/industry.rs
14:41<TrueBrain>these
14:42<TrueBrain>I can use Rust magic
14:42<TrueBrain>but .. hmm
14:43<frosch123>ah, okay, i assumed you were copying lists from nml :) i wanted to suggest to parse ottd source instead :p
14:45<TrueBrain>pff, I am not crazy! :D
14:46<TrueBrain>okay, FIRS economy compiles .... :o :o
14:46<TrueBrain>now I need to make some other modifications before it becomes useful .. like, a primary that accepts cargo
14:48<frosch123>the sliders in truegrf do not work for me
14:48<frosch123>they do not store their value when moved, so later revert to the old value
14:49<TrueBrain>they should update the text while sliding
14:49<TrueBrain>that doesn't happen either?
14:49<frosch123>nope, browser too old?
14:49<TrueBrain>any errors on your console?
14:50<frosch123>it's so empty that i am unsure whether i am using it correctly :p
14:50<TrueBrain>:D
14:50<frosch123>usually there is always some error shown :p
14:50<TrueBrain>what OS is that?
14:50<frosch123>firefox 91.5.0esr
14:51<TrueBrain>will check that out in the weekend or something :)
14:51<frosch123>hmm, chromium doesn't work either
14:52<TrueBrain>broken for me too
14:52<TrueBrain>weird ... didn't touch that lately :P
14:52<andythenorth>frosch123 I already gave TrueBrain the vehicle refittability diagram, but he thought it was april fool's
14:53<frosch123>andythenorth: would anyone notice if you used it as cargoflow graph in some economy?
14:53<andythenorth>XIS users might not :)
14:53<andythenorth>it is considerably cleaner than FIRS Extreme was
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15:01<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler commented on issue #9786: [Bug]: Terragenesis Mountainous setting does nothing for Tropic landscape https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/9786
15:02<@peter1138>New map gen when?
15:07<andythenorth>yes
15:10<LordAro>sure.
15:11<TrueBrain>does it add new settings?
15:11<LordAro>oh, then no
15:15<TrueBrain>right .. can I now export FIRS economy per industry, is the question .. lets find out!
15:17<andythenorth>o_O
15:18<TrueBrain>can't actually remember what economy part I converted :P
15:18<TrueBrain>I think only primary industries
15:18<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler commented on issue #6544: Put into the AI company when loading savegame https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/6544
15:20<TrueBrain>it compiled :o
15:21<TrueBrain>a Bulk Terminal does 272 tonnes of aluminium on game-start
15:21<TrueBrain>that feels wrong
15:22<andythenorth>it's probably correct though
15:23<TrueBrain>seems so
15:23<TrueBrain>I just don't randomize yet
15:23<TrueBrain>that is the main difference
15:23<TrueBrain>and because secondary industries aren't working, you can't make engineering supplies .. so I cannot test if it actually works :D
15:25<TrueBrain>now to figure out why sliders stopped working .. really odd
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15:40<TrueBrain>right, guess this weekend I will convert secondary and tertiary economy from FIRS .. so I can playtest if RPN is actually working :D
15:41<TrueBrain>also really curious if I can now make the Bulk Terminal be placed in the right position .. but that requires callbacks on tiles, not industry .. which is a bit tricky atm :D
15:44<TrueBrain>frosch123: deployed new version, should fix sliders :D
15:46<frosch123>aw, i had hopes i would understand the diff
15:46<TrueBrain>the diff is really easy :P But why it is needed, I do not know :)
15:46<TrueBrain>Svelte binding, that is all :) Svelte is nice :)
15:47<TrueBrain>"random_switch" <- I was not allowed to implement that, right? :D
15:47<frosch123>hmm, the gh deploy action is done, yet truegrf is down for me :/
15:47<TrueBrain>you are not wrong; that is a white screen
15:47<TrueBrain>grrr
15:47<frosch123>TrueBrain: correct
15:47<frosch123>TrueBrain: you use var 5F instead
15:48<frosch123>for reading
15:48<frosch123>triggers are a separate lesson on their own
15:48<TrueBrain>was looking for https://github.com/andythenorth/firs/blob/master/src/templates/randomise_primary_production_on_build.pynml
15:49<frosch123>well, the thing with random-switch is... it is bad in nfo... but nml makes it worse :p
15:51<frosch123>in this case you would use "var5F & 0xF" which gives you 16 random cases, and then you assign them to match the desired probabilities
15:51<TrueBrain>hmm .. seems that the wrong folder got pushed to GitHub pages .. what is going on there .. hmm ..
15:51<TrueBrain>frosch123: sounds good to me, tnx :D
15:52<TrueBrain>don't you just hate when locally something works that remotely doesn't :P
15:52<frosch123>oh wait, i always get var5F wrong, you need some addition shift by 8
15:53<frosch123>var5F 8 >> 0xF &
15:56*andythenorth did not patch GS yet :P
15:56<andythenorth>played tanks
16:02<TrueBrain>ah .. one of my dependencies broke a certain setting ... lets see if that can be fixed easily :D
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16:15<supermop_work>kind of need to model things in 3d to trace for all these cylindrical building types
16:17<TrueBrain>frosch123: https://truebrain.github.io/TrueGRF/ <- it is back alive! :D
16:17<TrueBrain>I love the changelog ... markdown escaping going wrong :D
16:18<frosch123>yay, sliders
16:18<TrueBrain>\o/ :D
16:18<TrueBrain>right, sleepy time!
16:22<andythenorth>good idea
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18:13<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #6544: Put into the AI company when loading savegame https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/6544
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18:22<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler opened pull request #9793: Fix #9020: Update station coverage highlight when adding/removing tiles https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/9793
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18:40<Gustavo6046>What if information screens used more icons, with tooltips to explain what they meant?
18:40<Gustavo6046>Then again, icons can be too abstract
18:41<Gustavo6046>I mean like, what would be a running cost icon?
18:41<Gustavo6046>Or a tractive effort icon?
18:41<Gustavo6046>What the heck does tractive effort even mean in practice?
18:52<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler opened pull request #9794: Fix #6544: Don't join AI company when loading network game in singlep… https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/9794
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20:21<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on pull request #9793: Fix #9020: Update station coverage highlight when adding/removing tiles https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/9793#issuecomment-1017024165
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---Logclosed Thu Jan 20 00:00:37 2022