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#openttd IRC Logs for 2022-01-21

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---Logclosed Fri Jan 21 04:01:26 2022
---Logopened Fri Jan 21 04:01:32 2022
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07:42<_dp_>is there some other docs on how real sprites are encoded in grf?
07:42<_dp_>https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/RealSprites doesn't seem to match it at all
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08:06<FLHerne>_dp_: https://github.com/OpenTTD/grfcodec/blob/master/docs/grf.txt might be useful
08:08<_dp_>yeah, thankss
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10:42<supermop_work>yo
10:51<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler commented on issue #9797: [Bug]: Unbearable city ambient sounds https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/9797
11:19<andythenorth>yo
11:25<nielsm>docks make sounds?
11:27<andythenorth>'quack'
11:27<andythenorth>"oh docks?"
11:27<andythenorth>docks go quak
11:27<andythenorth>or is that frogs?
11:31<@peter1138>Helmet camera, top or side?
11:31<@peter1138>Thinking top would be better for weight balance.
11:32<andythenorth>get one eye surgically replaced?
11:32<andythenorth>probably not a quick job
11:35<LordAro>are the cameras heavy enough to be noticeable?
11:36<@peter1138>145g
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11:39<@peter1138>Drift Ghost XL, went for the larger one as it's waterproof without an extra case.
11:39<@peter1138>Although it is not massive.
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12:06<_dp_>"This property must be set after property 00 to take effect." <- Does that mean prop 00 also has to be defined?
12:06<_dp_>https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action0/Vehicles/RoadVehicles
12:06<_dp_>or just that prop 0 will override it if declared after
12:09<frosch123>the second will overwrite the first one
12:09<frosch123>basically: just ignore 00 and never set it
12:11<frosch123>if in doubt, look at nml :p
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12:31<@peter1138>You would set 00 and conditionally set 1F if you wanted to waste effort making a file compatible with ancient versions.
12:33<_dp_>luckily I'm only interested in decompiling ancient versions, not making them
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13:45<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/commit/f6775a2d55ef6a645edddfca2b0820cb89d5d88b
13:45<@DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
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13:52<supermop_work>early 90s building: https://imgur.com/bj1HFgf
13:52<supermop_work>its not a tube but it is rounded and weird
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14:18<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] predo2810 commented on issue #9796: [Bug]: city name bug https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/9796
14:18<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] predo2810 closed issue #9796: [Bug]: city name bug https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/9796
14:30<TrueBrain>lol
14:31<frosch123>do you want that risc-5 board?
14:31<TrueBrain>say what now?
14:32<frosch123>hmm, that mail went to my box, not to info@, so no idea who else got it
14:32<TrueBrain>not me at least :P
14:33<TrueBrain>but I have 3 Risc V boards at home ... still haven't tried it ... I miss free time :P
14:33<frosch123>well, some chinese risc-v manufacturer's marketing team likes openttd, and want to provide a development board
14:33<TrueBrain>lol
14:34<TrueBrain>bit weird :P
14:34<TrueBrain>want to try run OpenTTD on it? :D
14:34<frosch123>yeah, it's weird, but the mail is too specifically crafted to be spam
14:35<TrueBrain>it is a nice gesture for sure :)
14:36<TrueBrain>I sitll have to find a simple breakout board for these ESP C3s .. but it is difficult .. tempted to make one myself ..
14:36<TrueBrain>all breakout boards for them are HUGE
14:36<TrueBrain>like 3 times the size of the chip
14:36<TrueBrain>which is such a waste
15:00<TrueBrain>did we ever test Sonarcloud on the OpenTTD codebase ....
15:01<TrueBrain>let's make a test for it :D
15:02<frosch123>rb ran coverty 10 years ago
15:04<TrueBrain>recently he did too
15:04<@Rubidium>coverty? You mean coverity?
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15:05<frosch123>possibly
15:08<TrueBrain>"0 Lines of Code"
15:08<TrueBrain>good job scanner
15:08<TrueBrain>good job
15:08<@Rubidium>then the last time it ran was in may. Our code sadly gives quite a few false positives
15:10<TrueBrain>and I find the results hard to understand .. interface is a bit .. 1990 :P
15:10<andythenorth>do I have a Risc V?
15:10<andythenorth>nope
15:11<andythenorth>I tried Snyk recently for automated code vulns and deps
15:11<andythenorth>wasn't convinced
15:11<@Rubidium>lgtm has a number of things we should look at as well, though the largest amount of cases are somewhat false-positive-ish as well
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15:13<andythenorth>aware of any others? o_O
15:13<andythenorth>this is a thing I am interested in
15:16<@DorpsGek>[OpenTTD/team] glx22 commented on issue #288: [it_IT] Translator access request https://github.com/OpenTTD/team/issues/288
15:17<andythenorth>so I reviewed myself https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/9795
15:17<andythenorth>did I do good?
15:17<+glx>template is there for a reason ;)
15:18<TrueBrain>always hard to see if someone is trolling or not if there are cabbages involved
15:19<andythenorth>it's my standard reminder for 'not finished'
15:19<andythenorth>I'll do the template, forget that
15:19<andythenorth>forgot *
15:21<TrueBrain>so on the front of rreviewing yourself, I have to rate you with an D
15:21<TrueBrain>sorry :)
15:27<andythenorth>thanks for your review of my review
15:27<TrueBrain>you asked :)
15:27<andythenorth>can I review your review of my review?
15:27<TrueBrain>no
15:27<TrueBrain>I didn't ask
15:27<andythenorth>ok
15:27<TrueBrain>so bugger off :P
15:27<TrueBrain>:D :D
15:28<TrueBrain><3
15:28<andythenorth>this GS stuff might be a big source of lol
15:28<andythenorth>shame we didn't add the NewGRF part 5 years ago, instead of arguing about it every 2nd Saturday for all that time :D
15:28<TrueBrain>have you read any of the NewGRF conversations I had the last few .. weeks? Pretty sure you have a high bar to top :P
15:28<andythenorth>but eh
15:29<andythenorth>so glad there's nobody in the channel currently saying 'but andythenorth GS must never know about NewGRF, on principle'
15:29<andythenorth>I sense many adventures ahead
15:29<andythenorth>mostly around performance and state
15:29<+glx>oh GS can know about newgrf, but you may need to update for every newgrf
15:30<andythenorth>TrueBrain asking you to learn grf has been every bit as entertaining as we predicted :)
15:30<TrueBrain>and then some, I am sure :P
15:30<andythenorth>glx when TrueBrain does presets, it will all be fine, right? :)
15:30<andythenorth>or we clone TrueBrain
15:30<andythenorth>or someone else does presets
15:30<TrueBrain>or you pay me :P
15:30<TrueBrain>fundraiser?
15:30<andythenorth>CrowdBrain
15:30<TrueBrain>kickstarter?
15:30<TrueBrain>patreon?
15:30<andythenorth>we could just try selling NFTs
15:31<+glx>presets won't prevent "broken" newgrf version bumps
15:31<TrueBrain>and hope it gives us the rights to Dune, right?
15:31<TrueBrain>what a silly story that was ..
15:31<andythenorth>glx Eddi did explain to me once how it's impossible to do dependencies into the future
15:31<andythenorth>or something
15:31<andythenorth>Eddi is usually correct
15:31<+glx>he's totally right
15:31<TrueBrain>https://www.theartnewspaper.com/2022/01/17/nft-group-shamed-jodorowsky-dune-book-copyright for context, those who missed it
15:31<andythenorth>GSTimeTravel
15:32<andythenorth>that's the one they thought they bought the copyright?
15:32<TrueBrain>yeah, although now claim they never did think that
15:32<TrueBrain>lolz
15:32<+glx>but with bad newgrf authors you could have same grfid with incompatible content
15:32<andythenorth>you could
15:32<andythenorth>I am only going to use the content from the FIRS that generated the GS
15:33<andythenorth>other people can make their own choices
15:33<andythenorth>I am going to do some quite unfriendly version checking
15:33<TrueBrain>NewGRF with embedded GS when?
15:33<TrueBrain>GS with embedded NewGRF?
15:33<andythenorth>well
15:33<andythenorth>you said it was just presets
15:33<andythenorth>I have a monorepo
15:33<frosch123>GS to RST transpiler, when?
15:33<frosch123>RPN
15:33<frosch123>what is RST?
15:34<andythenorth>python GS compiler to GS to RPN in Rust
15:34<TrueBrain>NewGRF extension for loops, when?
15:34<andythenorth>arbitrary loops?
15:34<andythenorth>pls
15:34<andythenorth>don't tease me :(
15:34<TrueBrain>23 minutes to analyze OpenTTD locally with sonarcloud .. now the cloud is looking at it
15:34<andythenorth>such cloud
15:34<+glx>you really want to allow infinite loops in something coming from outside ?
15:35<TrueBrain>256k Lines of Code
15:35<TrueBrain>we are not allowed to change OpenTTD anymore
15:35<TrueBrain>this is the perfect LoC!
15:35<andythenorth>well I have seen other platforms that have a max loop or max recursion depth
15:35<TrueBrain>I like how glx is like: either no loops, or INFINITE!
15:35<TrueBrain>:D
15:35<+glx>well infinite loops may happen
15:36<TrueBrain>if only we had ways to prevent them :P
15:36<TrueBrain>https://sonarcloud.io/project/overview?id=openttd-test
15:36<TrueBrain>specially for Rubidium 's collection of SAST resulsts :)
15:36<andythenorth>23k code smells
15:36<andythenorth>let's do some of my repos
15:36<+glx>"code smells" <-- that's a nice term
15:37<andythenorth>new to you glx? :)
15:37<andythenorth>does it have a french equivalent?
15:37<andythenorth>do we have a Sonarcloud account, or do I have to create a burner to test FIRS? :P
15:38*andythenorth creates a burner
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15:39<frosch123>not sure whether they provide analysis of newgrf
15:39<TrueBrain>"The left operand of '!=' is a garbage value"
15:39<TrueBrain>haha
15:42<TrueBrain>"Hard-coded credentials are security-sensitive." .... ' password_state = "AI";'
15:42<TrueBrain>I get it, okay, but .. no :P
15:43<TrueBrain>newgrf.cpp has highest technical depth :D
15:44<+glx>we could easily try CodeQL
15:44<andythenorth>these are similar issues to the ones Snyk found on work stuff :P
15:44<andythenorth>basically everywhere the creds were evaluated it went nuts
15:44<andythenorth>including some stuff that was used to ban obvious default creds :P
15:44<andythenorth>password="admin"
15:45<andythenorth>or that kind of thing
15:45<TrueBrain>CodeQL does the same for several OpenTTD's Python projects. Pretty normal .. just a one time "won't fix" action :)
15:45<andythenorth>bet CodePilot doesn't have this problem!
15:45*andythenorth wonders if CodePilot is basically inverse CodeQL
15:47<andythenorth>:D https://sonarcloud.io/summary/overall?id=andythenorth_firs
15:48<andythenorth>this looks quite interesting though
15:49<andythenorth>oh I can Sonarcloud translation PRs
15:49<andythenorth>currently I have to manually read them
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15:58<@Rubidium>glx: isn't codeql what fills lgtm.com?
16:00<+glx>I think it is
16:05<@Rubidium>looks like there are plenty false positives in SAST. Though happy there are no security vulnerabilities!
16:09<_dp_>_settings_game.vehicle.dynamic_engines
16:10<_dp_>is that like a fun way to break vehicle grfs?
16:11<supermop_work>is this too much of a departure from the tube building: https://imgur.com/bj1HFgf
16:12<supermop_work>https://imgur.com/a/e1Ts3Te
16:13<frosch123>_dp_: it's a compatibility setting with ottd <= 0.6 or something
16:14<frosch123>it's not supposed to be turned of for new games, but i guess there is nothing to enforce that :p
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16:19<andythenorth_>supermop_Home this one? :P https://i.imgur.com/YAmq9TX.jpeg
16:19<supermop_work>andythenorth: thats the one thats my attempt at redoing the original sprite
16:20<supermop_work>doesn't look very hawaiian, but its basically 1/4 of the BMW headquarters with some Richard Rodgers-y trusses tacked on
16:22<supermop_work>first one is a kenzo tange, 2nd and last ones are buildings in honolulu
16:22<supermop_work>ill scale these down and the paint over them in photosho[
16:22<supermop_work>p
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16:30<FLHerne>supermop_work: How about the last one of that, but without the bottom cylindrical section so the building is still hovering?
16:30<FLHerne>(and an extra horizontal truss at base level)
16:31<FLHerne>assume the lifts and stairs are in the rear block
16:33<FLHerne>and the yellow trusses support the main tower
16:37<wiscii>sorry for O.T. but does anybody here know the syntax for a comment in .json file ?
16:38<frosch123>there is no such thing
16:39<frosch123>it's a serialisation format, not a source file
16:39<wiscii>well, that would explain why i can find it
16:39<wiscii>the best option i found so far is '//' but iguess it then depends on what reads it
16:40<FLHerne>If you have a // it's not JSON
16:40<wiscii>sure, i understand your point
16:41<wiscii>this is for firefox policies.json and firefox does not mind the // comment
16:41<FLHerne>I've seen `comment: "here is some text"` but that's a bit silly
16:41<supermop_work> FLHerne there is no structural need for that ground floor, true
16:41<FLHerne>and Firefox might mind that
16:41<supermop_work>but that's some prime retail space to rent out!
16:42<FLHerne>supermop_work: planning rules demand x area of public open space ;-)
16:42<FLHerne>same reason the Gherkin tapers down at the base
16:43<FLHerne>and we all know how petty and anti-development OTTD's local authorities are
16:43<supermop_work>FLHerne: in new york that public space can be allowed to be indoors, atrium or winter garden
16:43<supermop_work>if you get a variance
16:44<FLHerne>Ok, but Fingfingbridge City Council doesn't allow such variances :p
16:46<_dp_>is there a way to use generic (16bit) offset in action 4 with vehicles?
16:46<FLHerne>unless you bribe them for £15,000,000
16:46<FLHerne>but that comes with the Severe Consequences of a small chance that you won't be allowed to bribe them again for a while
16:46<_dp_>there is a special case for that in the code but it just does the same as non-vehicle but without any range checks
16:46<_dp_>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/src/newgrf.cpp#L6029
16:46<_dp_>and I suppose there is no way to know vehicle index when writing grf?
16:48<TrueBrain>wiscii: use JSONC / JSON-C / JSON5, and use // for comments .. like all sane people writing JSON manually :p
16:49<TrueBrain>Most sane JSON implementation support that too ;)
16:49<wiscii>TrueBrain: thanks :)
16:51<frosch123>_dp_: haha, that's another standard trap
16:51<frosch123>the action4 specs are very confusing there
16:51<frosch123>16bit has nothing to do with "generic strings"
16:51<frosch123>you can use 16bit action4 just fine for vehicles
16:51<frosch123>feature 48 is what defines global strings
16:52<_dp_>frosch123, looking at the code to use 16bit I need to somehow know e->index
16:52<wiscii>www.json.org does not list any format for comments, so i presume that when it was designed they thought "we don't need comments" .. and then reality bit them on the as^D^D
16:52<frosch123>no, it's just your local vehicle id
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16:53<_dp_>but if set it by local id it doesn't match to the vehicle
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16:53<_dp_>non-generic looks up the engine by local id, but generic doesn't
16:54<TrueBrain>wiscii: it was a deliberate choice by the creator, with good reasons. But.. we are stubborn people
16:54<frosch123>_dp_: newgrf.cpp:6024 converts the grf-local-id to global id
16:54<TrueBrain>https://json5.org/ solves many issues JSON has for humans
16:55<_dp_>frosch123, yeah, but generic is in another branch
16:55<frosch123>_dp_: oh wait, someone added extended byte there
16:55<wiscii>TrueBrain: i can almost here the discussion now ;-) "we don't need comments because it speaks for itself" .. and then, "hey, how do i add a comment to explain this attribute pair?" .. dnag
16:55<frosch123>ho, yet a different variant :p
16:55<frosch123>ok, then do not set the generic-flag, and just use extended byte
16:55<TrueBrain>wiscii: more: it is a serialisation format, comments only ask for abuse
16:55<_dp_>frosch123, that much I figured
16:56<_dp_>frosch123, I just don't understand why line 6029 exists xD
16:56<frosch123>fine, so the generic strings are only callback results
16:56<TrueBrain>But humans are like: no, I am going to write JSON myself
16:56<frosch123>_dp_: text in purchase list, D4xx texts
16:56<wiscii>TrueBrain: ok, i'll have to learn what serialisation means here (don't worry, I'm not in a rush ;-))
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16:58<andythenorth>so for next trick....expose pathfinder to GS?
16:59<frosch123>go away samu
16:59<_dp_>frosch123, ah, so to define strings that can be used in a callback?
16:59<frosch123>yes
17:00<_dp_>can grf change some global strings with that? there doesn't seem to be any range checks xD
17:00<andythenorth>I am curious if OpenTTD would handle pathfinding faster than GS :P
17:01<frosch123>no, AddGRFStrings adds the strings specific to a newgrf, they do associate with the global strings
17:01<frosch123>well, they do, but they are mapped into a different location
17:07<andythenorth>hmm enough cargos? https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/337701432230805505/934207494719418438/unknown.png?width=772&height=1297
17:08<+glx>andythenorth: it would, but we intentionally refused to use internal pathfinder, has any internal command is "unlimited" and can have a huge impact on ticks length
17:08<andythenorth>worth knowing
17:09<andythenorth>well
17:09<frosch123>andythenorth: it's obviously faster in in-game time, because ottd cannot suspend API calls, so ottd would jsut block until pathfinding is done :p
17:09<andythenorth>I will explore the other pathfinders in GPL libs
17:09<andythenorth>there seem to be a few
17:10<andythenorth>maybe I will explore sleep first :P
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17:10<andythenorth>I want to build a graph first, then pathfind the routes between it
17:11<andythenorth>not sure how to do that :)
17:11<andythenorth>but I do know how to sleep :P
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---Logclosed Sat Jan 22 00:00:39 2022