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#uml IRC Logs for 2007-02-07

---Logopened Wed Feb 07 00:00:45 2007
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06:17<ac3>hi
06:19<ac3>I´d like to setup a shellserver for about 50 concurrent users (educational). Is UML a good solution for this? or is 50 UML "sessions" on one server just to much?
06:20<zap-zero>depends what the users do i'd say :)
06:21<infowolfe>ac3, how big's the box?
06:22<ac3>now it is a p3 733
06:22<ac3>but i can get a biggerone if needed
06:25<ac3>or is linux vserver better suited?
06:30<ac3>it´s for a course in OS. They need to have root xs for certain exercises
06:30<peterz>I'd hate to have 50 concurrent kernel compiles on any one box
06:32<ac3>:)
06:49<ac3>how performant is UML?
06:49<peterz>can be quite good when you're using the skas3 stuff
06:50<peterz>but what exactly are you teaching? if its kernel stuffs, I'd get them each a computer to crash
06:51<ac3>they need to do some basic shell scripting (bash/perl/phyton) and exersises on /proc
06:51<peterz>that all? basic UNIX course , then
06:51<ac3>yes
06:51<peterz>that should be quite doable within a UML instance
06:52<ac3>so 1 uml instance per student?
06:52<peterz>yeah, or you could give them root access and group them, and watch them fight with fork bomb 'n stuff ;-D
06:52<kokoko2>ac3, why not to just create 50 ssh accounts on single host?
06:53<kokoko2>the courses you mentioned dones' look like they need a separate VM
06:53<kokoko2>only a separate shell is enough
06:53<ac3>that´s what we have now, in fact it´s about 2000 accounts (ldap)
06:54<ac3>for certain things they need to be root, and during tests they can now exchange info with eachother
06:55<peterz>just sniff the traffic to make sure
06:55<peterz>and fail those who cheat ;-)
06:55<ac3>hehe
06:55<ac3>some of them just peak with ps
06:55<ac3>so they see the commands other students typed
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06:55<peterz>but if they all have shell accounts, what computers are used to access that server?
06:56<ac3>every student has it´s own pc in the classroom
06:56<peterz>right, just allow only 1 student to login to each lab computer
06:56<peterz>then they can play on the lab computer
06:56<peterz>without fear of cheating
06:57<ac3>how´s that?
06:57<peterz>if they all have their own computer, and only 1 student can login, the other students cannot login to look at ps or such
06:58<kokoko2>peterz, i thinks this computer is sort a shared computer
06:58<kokoko2>number of ppl would be using the lap computers
06:58<peterz>kokoko2: the server he brought up, yeah, but each student would have to have a computer to access that anyway
06:59|-|kokoko2 changed nick to kokoko1
06:59<kokoko1>Ok
06:59<ac3>yes
07:00<kokoko1>ac3, which part is this, imean location?
07:00<peterz>also, with sniffing you could keep an eye out for those who try to login to their classmates computers
07:00<ac3>but if you and i login to the same sshbox we can share info
07:00<ac3>there is only 1 shellserver
07:01<peterz>but can't they just work locally?
07:01<ac3>nop
07:01<peterz>or are they all running winders?
07:01<ac3>yes:)
07:01<peterz>urgh
07:01<ac3>unfortunately
07:01[~]peterz hands ac3 a cygwin cd
07:01<peterz>hehe
07:01<peterz>I think CS courses should make students run unix
07:01<ac3>thought about that
07:02<peterz>windows is so geared towards not thinking about how to do stuff its not funny
07:02<ac3>but with cygwin, does it have a /proc and stuff?
07:02<peterz>dunno
07:02<peterz>its been ages since I touched a winders box
07:02<ac3>and we don´t want students to be root on classroom pc´s
07:03<peterz>haha, can imagine that
07:04<peterz>can't you run linux in a vmware image on winders or something like that?
07:05<peterz>anyway, back to your original question, I think vserver or openvz should work for this, 50 uml instances might be a bit much for such a tiny box
07:11<ac3>the problem with vserver is that every instance should have it´s own ip, i prefer a different port
07:12<peterz>isn't that fixable with a local nat rule?
07:12<ac3>dunno, it is with uml, but i thought not with a vserver
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10:22<jdike>Hi guys
10:26<kokoko1>bonjour jdike
10:30<dgraves>morning, jdike...
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11:04<kokoko1>man i am starving, i must get something to eat :S
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11:32<infowolfe>mornin jdike
11:35|-|the_hydra [~mulyadi@125.164.97.218] has joined #uml
11:53<dgraves>hey the_hydra
11:53<the_hydra>hello allan
11:54<the_hydra>feel good today?
11:54<dgraves>yuppers!
11:54<dgraves>you?
11:54<dgraves>life is moving and good. :)
11:56<the_hydra>not so good
11:56<the_hydra>a reply from an editor makes me shake my head few times
11:57<dgraves>:(
11:57<dgraves>rejection letter?
11:57<the_hydra>not really
11:57<the_hydra>more like "why are you interested to send something to us"...
11:58<the_hydra>looks like somebody in the editorial feels he/she is inside the most wanted magazine on earth
11:58<the_hydra>f**k
11:58<the_hydra>!
11:59<dgraves>wow.
11:59<dgraves>that's interesting.
11:59<dgraves>or wierd, not sure which.
12:00<dgraves>dr. dobbs?
12:00<the_hydra>yeah, there are more
12:00<dgraves>linuxjournal?
12:00<the_hydra>no
12:00<the_hydra>local magazines
12:00<the_hydra>maybe it's a bit "normal" to see those kind of reply from "top rate" magazine
12:00<the_hydra>but from local and not so "fine" one? jesus...
12:00<dgraves>yeah, agreed.
12:01<dgraves>that's absurd.
12:02<the_hydra>dgraves: and many more like this, enough to discourage somebody who start his/her career
12:02<dgraves>:(
12:03<the_hydra>fortunately, I am quite familiar with this kind of people....and they are like disesase
12:03<dgraves>i hear its tough initially to get started, and surely that kind of letter doesn't make it easier.
12:03<the_hydra>so if you ask me "what makes your country quite hard to develop?
12:03<the_hydra>I say "the existence of these kind of germs"
12:04<the_hydra>"can you smash them? let's say, poison them?"
12:04<the_hydra>"yes, I can, and that will reduce Indonesia into about just 5-10% left"
12:05[~]dgraves thinks that a nuke would be the better option at that point.
12:05<the_hydra>i almost take that option
12:05<the_hydra>but well, s*t happens, and this time I swallow that s**t
12:07<dgraves>ewwwwwww. :-P
12:07<dgraves>submit it again!
12:07<dgraves>see how many times they send you that letter.. :)
12:08<the_hydra>i'll think about that
12:08<the_hydra>right now, jumping into far more important work.... digging kernel again
12:11[~]dgraves hands the_hydra the shovel and dynamite.
12:11<the_hydra>sure you don't forget something? ;)
12:11<the_hydra>i need that BFG! :)
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12:24[~]dgraves hands the_hydra a nuke.
12:24<dgraves>sorry, we're all out of BFG's. :(
12:24<the_hydra>thanks... :|
12:29<kokoko1>Time to change domaindirect password
12:29<kokoko1>One of our sysadmin recently left us :S
12:31<the_hydra>where do you work, kokoko1?
12:32<kokoko1>I work for an ISP, we also do web hosting
12:33<kokoko1>do you ppl have any clue how to run a script when usb drive plugged in
12:34<kokoko1>imean first to check if usb is mounted then do something else for example copy some files from usb to computer
12:34<the_hydra>maybe you need to check the udev/HAL scripts
12:34<kokoko1>test -d /media/usb is not help
12:35<kokoko1>the_hydra, yes i thinks bash is of no great help in this regards
12:35<the_hydra>i think so
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12:49<jdike>the_hydra, start your own magazine and run these other losers out of business
12:50<the_hydra>jdike: your advice is appealing....i'll consider it
12:50<the_hydra>jdike: would you like to contribute ? :)
12:50<jdike>or appalling
12:50<kokoko1>the_hydra, i'll love to write for you mag.
12:50<jdike>sure, if you want to lean more towards the appalling :-)
12:51<the_hydra>;)
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12:53<jdike>and keep that letter for later framing when you become a local media baron
12:55<the_hydra>what strikes me is actually not that part of the letter
12:55<the_hydra>but this
12:55<the_hydra>(translated)
12:55<the_hydra>"we expect an exclusive writer"
12:56<the_hydra>so it's like they want somebody who is "loyal"
12:56<the_hydra>to them, of course
12:56<jdike>Oh
12:56<jdike>and what do you get in exchange?
12:57<jdike>the usual price for exclusivity is whatever income your are giving up as a result
12:57<the_hydra>well, I think no more than just regular fee and a better chance to be published...that. I mean, if I agree to be the "loyalist"
12:57<the_hydra>yes, you got the point
12:59<jdike>is the market situation there such that there are few magazines and many good writers?
12:59<the_hydra>jdike: btw, from what I read, lguest is already merged in mainline...any plan to exploit this new virt?
12:59<jdike>not lguest, but KVM, yes
12:59<the_hydra>jdike: no hard data, but I have a good guess, it is
13:00<the_hydra>better guess is, actually many are willing to write, but quickly discouraged when realizing how much it can get
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13:01<jdike>but can their writing attract readers?
13:01<the_hydra>so, the end result, you pretty much see "obsolete" one
13:01<jdike>i.e. how good are they?
13:01<the_hydra>some are yes, the rest..not really
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13:01<the_hydra>oh KVM...... wish you luck
13:01<jdike>tx
13:01<the_hydra>just FYI, kqemu is now GPL-ed too
13:01<jdike>didn't know that it wasn't
13:02<the_hydra>no, was a closed source kern module
13:02<the_hydra>but somehow later Fabrice marked it as GPL
13:03<kokoko1>jdike, any progress on kvm + uml lately?
13:04<jdike>haven't started it
13:04<the_hydra>ok, we have lgues, kvm, kqemu, more to come?
13:04<the_hydra>:)
13:04<kokoko1>hmm i thinks only left linux to become virtual :)
13:06<kokoko1>2.6.20 #2
13:06<kokoko1>mouse didn't work on #1 build :S
13:06<the_hydra>;)
13:07<kokoko1>the_hydra, what you do mate, kernel hacker?
13:07<the_hydra>but personally I still think, UML approach is by far the most flexible and lightweight approach...in regards to virtualization
13:07<the_hydra>kokoko1: writing
13:07<kokoko1>gimme a hug :)
13:08<kokoko1>So what you write about, Tech ?
13:09<the_hydra>Linux, in general
13:10<kokoko1>By any chance, can i have a look at your article?
13:10<the_hydra>jdike: in your personal view, do you recomend Intel VT or AMD-V?
13:10<the_hydra>kokoko1: sure
13:10<the_hydra>kokoko1: http://www.linuxdevcenter.com/pub/a/linux/2006/11/30/linux-out-of-memory.html
13:10<kokoko1>thx
13:10<kokoko1>the_hydra, jdike will not defintely vote for Intel :D
13:11<kokoko1>ree
13:11<the_hydra>kokoko1: hehehe :)
13:11<kokoko1>will vote*
13:13<kokoko1>the_hydra, browsing sucks atm :(
13:15<the_hydra>kokoko1: here too
13:17<kokoko1>the_hydra, your location is indonesia ?
13:20<the_hydra>yes
13:20<the_hydra>and you?
13:21<kokoko1>Pakistan :)
13:23<the_hydra>i see
13:23<the_hydra>I guess you know Fawad lateef?
13:25<kokoko1>Hmm I know one Fawad, running linuxpakistan.net
13:25<kokoko1>You heard of Zeshan Ali ?
13:25<the_hydra>no
13:42<kokoko1>the_hydra, nice article
13:42<kokoko1>perhaps i am going to bookmark it for future reference
13:42<the_hydra>feel free to do so
13:42<kokoko1>Lot of things just fly over my head :D
13:43<the_hydra>:)
14:16<the_hydra>gtg all
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---Logclosed Thu Feb 08 00:00:29 2007