Back to Home / #uml / 2007 / 10 / Prev Day | Next Day
#uml IRC Logs for 2007-10-20

---Logopened Sat Oct 20 00:00:26 2007
00:32|-|kokoko1 [~Slacker@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:00|-|kokoko1 [~Slacker@] has joined #uml
01:13|-|ElectricElf [~dbharris@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:16|-|ElectricElf [~dbharris@] has joined #uml
02:19|-|kokoko1 [~Slacker@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:20|-|kokoko1 [~Slacker@] has joined #uml
02:30|-|kos_tom [] has joined #uml
02:39|-|Magotari [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:22|-|kokoko1 [~Slacker@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:23|-|kokoko1 [~Slacker@] has joined #uml
03:31|-|kokoko1 [~Slacker@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:39|-|kokoko1 [~Slacker@] has joined #uml
04:02|-|tyler29 [] has joined #uml
04:11|-|Urgleflogue [~plamen@] has joined #uml
04:31|-|tyler29 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:41|-|kokoko1 [~Slacker@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:44|-|tyler29 [] has joined #uml
04:54|-|kokoko1 [~Slacker@] has joined #uml
05:06|-|kokoko1 [~Slacker@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
05:18|-|aroscha [] has joined #uml
05:29|-|aroscha [] has quit [Quit: aroscha]
05:43|-|duns_s [] has joined #uml
05:45|-|cl4sh [] has joined #uml
06:02|-|aroscha [~aroscha@] has joined #uml
06:56<cl4sh>hi all
06:56<cl4sh>ive got little problem with vnuml tutorial
06:59<cl4sh>i would be very thankful if somebody could help
07:00|-|kokoko1 [~Slacker@] has joined #uml
07:36|-|Magotari [] has joined #uml
07:38<Magotari>cl4sh: I read wthat you said in the logs.
07:38<Magotari>As far as I understand the bit of software you are trying to use is a few years old.
07:39<Magotari>I think the syntax to mkisofs could have changed. Please take a look at the program's source code and see if it is trying to do something that disagrees with the mkisofs man page syntax.
07:44<Magotari>Actually, I took a look at it. I did not see a "-q" option anywhere.
07:56<cl4sh>Magotari: i wander if that could be some kind of kernel problem?
07:58<cl4sh>Magotari: mkisofs is run by maybe this tool i not good
07:59<Magotari>cl4sh: I think it bitrotted. Check the code for vnumlparser and correct it.
07:59<Magotari>The took can be good despite the need for maintenane.
08:01<Magotari>If you want I can try to fix it, and then submit the patches upstream. I have time to burn.
08:03<cl4sh>:) sounds good for me :)
08:04<cl4sh>btw did you ever fun with vnuml?
08:04<Magotari>I did not try it yet.
08:05<Magotari>I know what it is, but I don't like XML.
08:05<Magotari>Guess it is time to expand the horizons again. :)
08:06<Magotari>Now, how to get that thing installed on a ubuntu. (I swear, the worst distro I have ever tried. Tastes vary, but I cannot stand it. I miss Gentoo or Slackware.)
08:07<cl4sh>that url to gentoo
08:07<Magotari>Yeah. Will be useful once I get home, but for now...
08:08<cl4sh>meybe under ubuntu there wont be problem
08:09<cl4sh>for luck i've got two distros gentoo and ubuntu
08:09<cl4sh>but i really want to run vnuml under gentoo
08:10<Magotari>Probably ubuntu won't run either, I don't think. I am trying it now.
08:10<Magotari>God, I cannot wait to remove that stuff from my computer.
08:11<cl4sh>ubuntu looks very god and works without big problems
08:11<cl4sh>and is very user friendly
08:12<cl4sh>at my technical university many students usemubuntu
08:12<Magotari>So friendly that it keeps opening eth1, despite me wanting it to be down, which causes breakage.
08:13<Magotari>Tastes vary, but unless I am in control, I don't feel good.
08:13<Magotari>But a great start to Linux, yes.
08:13<cl4sh>some peapole really dont like bury into console
08:14<cl4sh>they like prety window enviroment
08:31<Magotari>cl4sh: What is the version of the parser you are VNUML you are trying to use?
08:31<cl4sh>Magotari: moment
08:32<cl4sh>This is version: 1.8.1-1 (25/05/2007)
08:32<Magotari>Despite what I thought, they seem to be actively maintained. Getting a beta or a testing version could cure your ills.
08:32<Magotari>The newest is 1.8.2beta3
08:32<Magotari>Might be worth a try.
08:33<cl4sh>ok i'll try
08:33<Magotari>This site lists it for Ubuntu. For Gentoo you can fetch the code and do it yourself, I guess.
08:35<cl4sh>i already make it
08:36<cl4sh>this same problem
08:36<cl4sh>under ubuntu it works fine?
08:38<cl4sh>i think the problem is with skas mode
08:39<cl4sh>i already compile skas patched kernel
08:39<cl4sh>meybe it will help
08:44|-|cl4sh [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
08:47|-|cl4sh [] has joined #uml
08:47<cl4sh>im back
08:48<Magotari>I don't think ubuntu supports -q as a switch to mkisofs.
08:48<Magotari>I doubt it is a skas problem.
08:49<cl4sh>meybe the best way will be contact with developers :P
08:49<Magotari>Yes, I thought about it.
08:49<Magotari>You can find the contact info here.
08:49<Magotari>No IRC channel, sadly.
08:50<cl4sh>it why im here
08:51<Magotari>Ah, I see.
08:51<cl4sh>i wonder how to repair this bug
08:51|-|kos_tom [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:52<Magotari>I have one final idea. Try to edit out the -q from the perl script. Might make it work.
08:52<Magotari>I see no bug here.
08:52<Magotari>This is normal output for an old host kernel.
08:52<Magotari>A newer kernel will have sysemu support.
08:52<cl4sh>ok i'll for that
08:52<Magotari>And if you patch the host kernel you will also get skas3 and /proc/mm.
08:53<Magotari>UML will run just fine with those not present though.
08:54|-|kos_tom [] has joined #uml
08:55<cl4sh>yes when i patch i have this same output
08:55<Magotari>You did the skas3 patch to your host kernel and booted it?
08:55<cl4sh>i thin the patch ande kernel is not compatibile
08:56<Magotari>Could be. Try to find a patch for your kernel. Let me see...
08:56<cl4sh>but ive got kernel 2.6.22
08:56<cl4sh>there is not patch to this kernel
08:57<Magotari>Wait a minute...
08:58<Magotari>What does "uname -r" tell you?
08:59<Magotari>That is very strange. I think it should have sysemu.
08:59<Magotari>Did the patch say anything about rejects?
09:00<Magotari>This is a skas3 patch for a 22 kernel.
09:01<Magotari>Gentoo kernels are lightly patched, there should be no problem with them.
09:04<cl4sh>maybe it will works
09:06<cl4sh>i want to say that im pleasantly supprised that You spent time on helping me
09:15<Magotari>Well, I like helping out.
09:15|-|tyler29 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:16<cl4sh>would i be indicreet asking You what You do in real life (as i said before im student)?
09:17<Magotari>I am a student too, second year of my bachelor's degree in Poland.
09:19<Magotari>Heh, you know Polish too, eh?
09:19<Magotari>University of Gdansk? :)
09:20<cl4sh>technical univeristy of gdansk
09:20<cl4sh>fourth year of telecomunnications and first yeaar at university of gdansk managment
09:20<Magotari>Pretty damn funny. I actually know a person who studies in Gdansk, or rather used to know.
09:21<Magotari>Nice. Two at once?
09:21<Magotari>I am from Lublin, WSPA, a private school, sadly.
09:22<cl4sh>for its not problem :P
09:22<Magotari>IT, of course. :)
09:22<cl4sh>the world is really damn small
09:22<Magotari>Yeah, quite true.
09:23<Magotari>The internet makes it all quite smaller.
09:23<cl4sh>reboot to patched kernel
09:23|-|cl4sh [] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
09:26|-|cl4sh [] has joined #uml
09:26<cl4sh>im back but without X
09:26<Magotari>Long live irssi.
09:26<Magotari>diff the old kernel's config with the new one.
09:27<Magotari>You can get your current config with zcat /proc/config.gz
09:28<Magotari>Unless you have a modular/genkernel kernel, in which case I cannot help you, as I have no experience with that..
09:29<cl4sh>no i was make kernel manualy
09:30<Magotari>Aha. Good. So you can do a diff and see what has changed other than the patch.
09:30<Magotari>If you cannot find the config for your old kernel, boot into the old kernel and get it with zcat, then compare to the new one.
09:31<cl4sh>i ve got both .config
09:32|-|tyler29 [] has joined #uml
09:33<cl4sh>diff have 997 lines :/
09:33<cl4sh>i dont how automaticly use diff
09:33<Magotari>Did you change the kernel version? I mean did you start with 2.6.xx and then change to 2.6.yy?
09:34<cl4sh>yes uname returns 2.6.22-gentoo-r8-skas3-v9-pre9
09:35<Magotari>And what was the previous kernel?
09:35<Magotari>Just r8?
09:35<Magotari>Oh boy. :/
09:35<cl4sh>i was make something wrong
09:36<Magotari>Here is an idea.
09:36<Magotari>Copy your old config to the new kernel tree, and build that.
09:36<cl4sh>but ive got old kernel
09:37<Magotari>Erm... Let me get something clear here...
09:37<cl4sh>i can boot 2.6.22-gentoo-r8
09:37<Magotari>You have booted a patched kernel, with the same config as the old kernel?
09:37<Magotari>And X stopped working?
09:38<Magotari>Do you have any kernel modules? Ati, nvidia? Others?
09:38<cl4sh>nvidia and and_hda_intel
09:40<Magotari>Yeah, nvidia proprietary driver might be a problem. Rebuild that package, might help. If it does not, maybe try modprobe -f to get it into the kernel despite a different version number.
09:40<Magotari>Your kernel version changed, you see...
09:40<Magotari>And modules are built for a specific kernel version.
09:40<cl4sh>uhm i see
09:41<Magotari>Also, you can cheat, and just change your kernel's version. :) It should work, but as a last resort.
09:42|-|kokoko1 [~Slacker@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
09:43<cl4sh>is it possible to run one kernel with one module and other kernel wih other module?
09:44<cl4sh>ok im tryin to boot with X
09:44<Magotari>Hmm. I am afraid I don't understand. You have kernel A with a module B. And kernel C with module D. Do you want to run them at the same time?
09:44<Magotari>Good luck.
09:45|-|cl4sh [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
09:47|-|cl4sh [] has joined #uml
09:47<cl4sh>X works fine
09:47<Magotari>Yup. Good.
09:48<Magotari>The rebuild did the trick?
09:48<cl4sh>tryin vnuml
09:50<cl4sh>problem already exist but not this same
09:50<cl4sh>patch repair only PTRACE_LDT
09:51<Magotari>This is extremely puzzling.
09:52<Magotari>Do you use a bootsplash or anything else which needs the gentoo patchset?
09:52<cl4sh>no, i think (?)
09:53<Magotari>Two things here.
09:53<Magotari>First, what you keep poinitng out as a problem is not required for proper UML operation.
09:53<Magotari>Second, the problem with VNUML is probably with their handling of mkisofs.
09:54<Magotari>I believe that editing the VNUML executable fine could make the whole thing work.
09:54<Magotari>You need to remove the -q and try that. It might need to be replaced by a different switch, but it should work.
09:54<cl4sh>but its already without -q
09:55<Magotari>Oh. Bummer. What is the error message now?
09:56<cl4sh>and PTRACE_LDT...found
09:57<Magotari>It does go further now, this is good. mkisofs is fine. Now, there are more problems. Hmmm...
09:58<Magotari>Are you running VNUML from X?
09:59<Magotari>And as what user?
10:03<Magotari>ANd one more thing I see here as a problem. "configured out of uml". Are you using your own guest kernel?
10:23<cl4sh>sorry for afk i have guest in my room
10:24<cl4sh>Magotari: yes im running VNUML from X
10:24<cl4sh>Magotari: as root
10:25<Magotari>Do you do it by sudo?
10:25<cl4sh>no its gentoo
10:25<cl4sh>im login as root
10:26<Magotari>Ok. So that is one thing not causing the problem.
10:26<Magotari>You are using the kernel which came with VNUML?
10:27<cl4sh>i dont understand question
10:27<cl4sh>i was compile vnuml from sources
10:28<Magotari>Maybe try rolling your own. There is not much you need to change from defconfig.
10:28<Magotari>I am talking about the UML guest kernel.
10:28<cl4sh>aho i see
10:29<cl4sh>i dont know what kernel is inside root_fs
10:29<Magotari>I know. None.
10:29<Magotari>There are no kernels in a rootfs.
10:30<Magotari>The kernel is an executable file on the host.
10:30<Magotari>It takes a rootfs as a data file to work with.
10:30<Magotari>Let me see.
10:31<Magotari>"Current UML kernel is linux- (05/07/2007)."
10:32<cl4sh>i think this is problem
10:32<Magotari>Yeah, I think you are quite a bit better off rolling your own kernel.
10:32<Magotari>Replace the VMUML kernel with it.
10:32<Magotari>Defconfig should work just fine, time for tweaking will come once we have the basics going.
10:34<Magotari>In the XML files I see this: <kernel>&VNUMLDIR;kernels/linux</kernel>
10:34<Magotari>This might give you a hint where to put the new kernel.
10:38<cl4sh>i follow the instrucions in VNUML-xxx-hoto.txt from archive with new kernel (
10:41<cl4sh>tahats proble tehe configuration based on previous UML kernel
10:41<Magotari>Yeah, that would do it.
10:48|-|Electric1lf [] has joined #uml
10:55<cl4sh>Magotari: i cant find few options in menuconfig
10:55<Magotari>You can press / to search for an option.
10:56|-|ElectricElf [~dbharris@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:56<Magotari>Also, make sure you have ARCH=um in the environment.
10:56<cl4sh>yes i have
10:57<cl4sh>but i was search for options but only result is
10:58<cl4sh>i.e. Symbol: IP_NF_NAT_IRC [=n]
10:58|-|duns_s [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:58<cl4sh>ive got CONFIG_IP_NF_NAT_SNMP_BASIC=m
10:59<cl4sh>next in VNUML-howto is CONFIG_IP_NF_NAT_IRC=m
10:59<cl4sh>but in menuconfig next is CONFIG_IP_NF_MANGLE
11:00<Magotari>Hmmm... Well, first of all, that is a 18 kernel config. You cannot just copy, you must use your head to make it work on a 22 kernel. Things have changed.
11:00<Magotari>I don't think the options there are selected by anything or depend on anything.
11:01<Magotari>Nor are they located in menuconfig.
11:01<Magotari>Try just editing the config file, if you are desperate. But I don't think it will be necessary, UML should work fine without. For now, let us just try to get it to boot right, later we can hunt for more.
11:02<cl4sh>as i said i follow the VNUML howt accompanying to to kernel 18
11:02<cl4sh>ok i will make it
11:11<cl4sh>Magotari: Magotari : it seems that ive got the kernel 18
11:12<Magotari>Yeah, I reckoned as much. I bet it does not have the right channel enabled in the configuration.
11:13<Magotari>Or VNUML is trying to use an invalid channel.
11:13<Magotari>That can make a system not boot, I had it happen to me once before.
11:15<cl4sh>why skas mode is SKAS0?
11:15<Magotari>Long story. Here goes...
11:15<Magotari>First there was only TT mode.
11:15<Magotari>Slow and insecure.
11:16<Magotari>Then, someone had the idea to fix it. By patching the host kernel to get it's support, they were able to do away with the inefficiencies and problems of the old code.
11:16<Magotari>SKAS3 is the third revision of the Separate Kernel Adress Space patch.
11:16<Magotari>The changes were too big to be accepted into the mainline kernel.
11:16<cl4sh>but we cant get into skas3 mode
11:17<Magotari>Someone made a different patch, a smaller one. It still allowed UML to gain a lot of SKAS3 benefits, but it was accepted into the mainline.
11:17<Magotari>That is SKAS0.
11:17<cl4sh>but as we its not enough to run uml
11:17<Magotari>No idea why skas3 does not work. It should.
11:17<Magotari>No, that is not true.
11:17<cl4sh> PTRACE_FAULTINFO...not found
11:18<Magotari>You can run UML in Skas0 without a problem. Same with no PTRACE_FAULTINFO.
11:18<Magotari>You won't get all the performance and memory benefits, but it will work right as rain.
11:18<Magotari>What is wrong here, is the channel setup.
11:18<cl4sh>it after Checking syscall emulation patch for ptrace...missing
11:18<Magotari>UML has no mouth and it wants to scream.
11:19<Magotari>That is sysemu, even more puzzling, but likewise not essencial.
11:19<cl4sh>we need it?
11:19<Magotari>No, we don't.
11:19<Magotari>Not essencial means it is not necessary.
11:20<Magotari>A nice thing to have, but it was mainlined years ago, as far as I know.
11:20<cl4sh>oh i see
11:20<cl4sh>then i dont know
11:20<cl4sh>what else we can do
11:20<Magotari>Please, compile a defconfig 2.6.22 or 2.6.23 uml kernel, and replace the VNUML kernel with it.
11:21<cl4sh>i think ive got compiled one
11:21<cl4sh>but you mean patched with skas of course?
11:21<Magotari>Make a backup of the VNUML kernel, and put the 2.6.2x kernel in it's place, or get it to become the default kernel somehew else.
11:21<Magotari>Let us talk a bit here.
11:22<Magotari>Do you know the difference between the guest and host kernels?
11:22<Magotari>Skas3 support is in any guest by default.
11:22<Magotari>For a host kernel it needs a patch.
11:22<cl4sh>its begin clear
11:23<Magotari>So it does not matter if you pick the patched one or not, not for the guest anyway.
11:25<cl4sh>Unknown file type (unallocated) /tmp/vnuml_opt_fs.bZXhjv/.. - ignoring and continuing.
11:25<cl4sh>maybe something with tahat
11:26<Magotari>I am not sure. I wish I knew. All I see for now is the issue that I am familiar with, a channel mis-setup. :/
11:28|-|aroscha [~aroscha@] has quit [Quit: aroscha]
11:28<Magotari>Can you somehow show me the commandline with which UML is being called?
11:30<cl4sh>being called?
11:30<Magotari>Being run, sorry.
11:31<cl4sh>one moment
11:31<cl4sh>but i found that
11:31<Magotari>Yes, that is a channel misconfiguration.
11:32<Magotari>Enabling all channels in a kernel config should fix the matters fast.
11:32<Magotari>A defconfig kernel has everything you need.
11:33<cl4sh>howto enabling all chanells?
11:33<Magotari>Make a defconfig kernel and replace the one which came with VNUML with it.
11:34<Magotari>It has all channels enabled.
11:36<cl4sh>maybe i do something wrong but it doesn't work for me
11:38<Magotari>Hmm. Can you post the entire log for the replaced kernel again?
11:42<cl4sh>im little bit lost
11:43<cl4sh>it looks new
11:43<Magotari>The boot log?
11:43<cl4sh>one moment
11:44<cl4sh>i didnt saw the Using a channel type which is configured out of UML message
11:46<cl4sh>look at this
11:48<Magotari>The channel problem is solved now, but it still won't boot. :?
11:48<Magotari>Ok. Calm down Magotari.
11:48<cl4sh>little step
11:48<cl4sh>but step
11:49<Magotari>Ok, try running the parser with -i
11:49<Magotari>Interactive mode.
11:50<Magotari>Ah, and with -v too. For verbose.
11:50<cl4sh>maybe i should gave it continue when he ask?
11:50<cl4sh>Boot timeout for virtual machine uml1 reached. Abort, Retry, or Continue?
11:50<Magotari>Try it.
11:52<cl4sh>without reaction
11:52<cl4sh>seems to hang on
11:52|-|tyler29 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:53<Magotari>Time for a killall, I guess.
11:53<Magotari>Try running it with those: -v -i
11:55<cl4sh>it is really verbose
11:56<Magotari>:/ Can you post the log if it does not boot again?
11:56<cl4sh>you want whole?
11:56<Magotari>Sorry it is taking me so long to crack that one, I am new to all this and I am sick too. Flu.
11:56<Magotari>Yes, whole.
11:57<cl4sh>i look up to You
11:58|-|aroscha [] has joined #uml
12:00<cl4sh>that's the log
12:02<Magotari>Ok, thanks.
12:02<cl4sh>maybe its because of deletind in mkiosfs "-"
12:05|-|tyler29 [] has joined #uml
12:05<Magotari>I wish I knew what -q used to do before it got removed.
12:06<cl4sh>i listen to You
12:06<cl4sh>maybe it helps
12:07<Magotari>I am looking at the verbose output. It is what I need, but it will take me a while.
12:07<cl4sh>ok no problem
12:11<Magotari>I think I see the problem here. Could you do the interactive startup again, up to the first mkisofs line?
12:12<cl4sh>its "-q" yes?
12:12<Magotari>No, without -q.
12:13<Magotari>Just run the parser with -v -i, like before.
12:13<Magotari>I want to see if the directory it talks about even exists at the moment of mkisofs.
12:13<Magotari>But the directory will always have a new, random name, so we need to wait till we have the random name.
12:15<Magotari>Ok. Now open a second terminal, and "cd /tmp/vnuml_opt_fs.CBuzmO/"
12:15<cl4sh>moment i must do it one more time
12:16<Magotari>If you did a ctlr+c that is fine too, it probably did not clean up.
12:16<Magotari>With a new run, the directory will have a new name again.
12:16<cl4sh>i know
12:17<cl4sh>next enter dele this file
12:17<cl4sh>it will be /tmp/vnuml_opt_fs.eTsqMq/
12:17<cl4sh>im in
12:17<Magotari>It exists?
12:17<Magotari>What is inside?
12:18<cl4sh>-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 2007 pa 20 19:16 umlboot
12:18<Magotari>:/ I am starting to run out of ideas here. Let me read the verbose code again.
12:19<Magotari>I just read that the unallocated message is harmless. Damn.
12:19<cl4sh>maybe we should think something about this mkiosfs options
12:20<Magotari>One more idea. "cat /root/.vnuml/networks/Net0.ctl.cter"
12:20<cl4sh>cuz in my opinion there is something wrong with summary after "ignoring and continuing."
12:21<cl4sh>onnly : tutorial-lu
12:22<Magotari>That is fine.
12:22<Magotari>Ok, let us try something from a different barrel. (If you ever have enough, tell me. I can do this for days, but I know many people sooner or later want to give up.)
12:22<Magotari>Try getting the UML kernel and filesystem from the UML website.
12:22<Magotari>Put them in one directory and boot them.
12:23<Magotari>Let us see if UML can work on your computer, period.
12:23<Magotari>If it can, we can build on it.
12:23<cl4sh>no im fighter with *nix system for 7 years
12:26<cl4sh>i try to do that before
12:26<Magotari>Did it work?
12:26<cl4sh>it works fine with systems
12:27<Magotari>You have a different arch?
12:27<cl4sh>in x86_64 gettin loop
12:27<cl4sh>yes ive got amd64
12:27<cl4sh>that's why i use gentoo
12:27<Magotari>Yeah, I can see why you would, yes.
12:28<cl4sh>ubuntu is hangging at mine machine
12:28<cl4sh>but the log is quite interesting
12:28<Magotari>I think I know the final answer. I just need you to confirm it now. Please download the filesystem from the website and use your defconfig built kernel.
12:29<cl4sh>i must go afk for 10min sorry
12:29<Magotari>No problem.
12:30<Magotari>Your arch could also explain the lack of sysemu and skas3 even after patching. I am not so sure about this, but it seems likely.
12:36<cl4sh>Magotari: im back
12:36<cl4sh>look at this
12:36<cl4sh>i must reboot cuz of seg foult
12:36|-|cl4sh [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
12:39|-|cl4sh [] has joined #uml
12:39<cl4sh>Magotari: im back
12:39<Magotari>cl4sh: I find it horribly funny that you suddenly got skas3.
12:40<cl4sh>Magotari: this was in this kernel download from uml site
12:40<Magotari>Anyway, did it say anything more after the end of your log?
12:40<Magotari>Was it a 64bit kernel which you downloaded, or 32 bit?
12:40<Magotari>ANd the filesystem? 64 or 32?
12:40<cl4sh>i dont remember
12:41<Magotari>:/ We need a 32 bit filesystem to test my idea.
12:41<Magotari>I think VNUML might be shipping a 32bit rootfs.
12:41<Magotari>If 32bit rootfs won't boot in your arch, we have the problem figured out.
12:42<Magotari>Solving it will be a different matter altogether, but...
12:42|-|tyler29 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:43<cl4sh>maybe i should use linux-2.6.22-rc2.bz2
12:43<cl4sh>to boot vnuml
12:43<Magotari>Yeah, it is an idea.
12:43<Magotari>Go for it.
12:45<Magotari>I need to take care of myself for a while, I will be back in about half an hour. If the rc2 kernel won't make VNUML boot, please try to see if a 64bit kernel can boot a 32bit rootfs on a 64bit machine. It might, it might not.
12:55|-|tyler29 [] has joined #uml
13:00|-|ram [] has joined #uml
13:03|-|tyler29 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:04<Magotari>And back.
13:04<cl4sh>as You think
13:05<Magotari>It did not boot?
13:05<cl4sh>in both sides it cent run
13:05<Magotari>cent run? ??
13:05<cl4sh>32 ker cant run 64bit fs
13:05<Magotari>And 64 kern 32 fs? Same?
13:06<cl4sh>64 bit kernel cant run 32 bit fs
13:06<Magotari>Now, I am quite sure the VNUML ships 32 bit, unless they say so otherwise.
13:06<cl4sh>i wonder to replace
13:06<cl4sh>fs in /usr/locale/share/vnuml/filesystems
13:07<cl4sh>end vnuml kernel
13:07<cl4sh>by this working with Debian fs
13:07<cl4sh>and tryin
13:07<Magotari>It won't work right, you probably need some extra software on VNUML rootfs. But it should at least damn boot further.
13:08<Magotari>So please do that, and then file a bug in VNUML to support x86_64
13:13<cl4sh>it doesn't work
13:13|-|ram [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
13:15<Magotari>Ok. 6 hours later, we probably got it figured out then. :)
13:17<cl4sh>i dont under stand
13:17<cl4sh>i ve got little mess
13:18<cl4sh>adn now i dont know which kernel it use
13:18<cl4sh>from which directory
13:19|-|tyler29 [] has joined #uml
13:19<cl4sh>to this moment i was creaate symbolic link to kernel
13:19<cl4sh>but now i was rm it
13:19<cl4sh>and vnumlparser didnt argue with that
13:20<Magotari>It would be best to clear about this. VNUML is not too great in telling you what exactly it is running, even in verbose mode.
13:20<Magotari>It does not give you the most critical thing, the commandline.
13:21<cl4sh>You're right
13:22<cl4sh>im so stupid
13:23<cl4sh>do tou remember which kernel was the best
13:23<cl4sh>given us /pros/mm found
13:24<Magotari>Hmm. The kernel which let us do skas3 was the one from the website, -rc2.
13:24<Magotari>Lots of others gave us /proc/mm, if I remember right.
13:24<cl4sh>rememer which one
13:24<cl4sh>not this from side
13:25<Magotari>I must once again stress that /proc/mm or skas3 are not needed for proper UML operation. They are totally optional.
13:25<cl4sh>then which kernel shoul work ?
13:25<cl4sh>should work
13:26<Magotari>You mean the VNUML? It is 32 bit, unless I am mistaken. I doubt it. We have not checked if a 32bit kernel will boot a 32bit rootfs on a 64bit machine, so I cannot say for sure, but...
13:27<Magotari>I mean, the one shipped with VNUML.
13:27<Magotari>It had channel problems too.
13:28<cl4sh>is 64bit root_fs exist?
13:28<cl4sh>of vnuml root_fs
13:28<Magotari>I don't think so.
13:29<cl4sh>but when i try on my machine under gentoo 64bit
13:29<cl4sh>kernel 32bit boot 32bit root_fs it works
13:29<Magotari>I see.
13:29<Magotari>That is very interesting indeed.
13:30<Magotari>Our defconfig built kernels were probably 64bit.
13:30<Magotari>We might have introduced the problem.
13:30<Magotari>But really, it would not boot before anyway, so...
13:31<Magotari>I am at a loss. Are you sure you used a 32bit kernel and rootfs on a 64bit machine without problems?
13:32<cl4sh>look at this
13:32<Magotari>(Try to get the kernel and rootfs from this page:
13:32<cl4sh>we try to run 32bit kernel 64bit fs - fail
13:32<cl4sh>we try to run 64bit kernel 32bit fs - fail
13:33<cl4sh>we try to run 64bit kernel 64bit fs - passs
13:34<cl4sh>then i will download 32bit kernel not this from uuml -rc2 cuz we dont know if that was 32bit
13:34<Magotari>Try to boot them. They are both 32 bit. If that will boot on your 64bit machine, I give up. I have no idea why VNUML...
13:35<cl4sh>guess what!
13:36<cl4sh>we try to run 32bit kernel 32bit fs - passs
13:36<cl4sh>ive got message Mounting local filesystems...failed. but system starts
13:37<Magotari>Ok. One more idea. Please get VNUML to show us the commandline for running uml.
13:39<Magotari>That bootlog is perfectly normal.
13:39<cl4sh>i must broke down somthing when i try to run meny kernels
13:39<cl4sh>itm must be something wrong with vnuml kernel
13:40<Magotari>Yeah, I suppose so. Would be a great idea to replace the vnuml kernel with the one which works, the one from the website...
13:41<cl4sh>ok i try to do that
13:44<cl4sh>i think it could be something with path its too and because of this its easy to make mistakes
13:45<Magotari>I need to go for some 30 again. bbiab
13:46<Magotari>30 minutes.
13:49|-|Magotari [] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting]
13:49|-|Magotari [] has joined #uml
13:59|-|tyler29 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:00|-|aroscha [] has quit [Quit: aroscha]
14:02<Magotari>Ok, and back.
14:04<Magotari>Here is another idea, try to get this scenario going:
14:06|-|ElectricElf [~dbharris@] has joined #uml
14:08<cl4sh>Magotari: one moment i finish the last scenario :P
14:09|-|Electric1lf [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:11<cl4sh>and of cours doesnt work
14:11<cl4sh>then simpl.xml
14:12<cl4sh>one moment
14:12<cl4sh>i must change path
14:13<cl4sh>cuz ive got vnuml in /usr/local/share not /usr/share
14:15<cl4sh>Magotari: which kerlnel i shoudl use 18 will be good?
14:16|-|tyler29 [] has joined #uml
14:16<Magotari>Yes, it should be good.
14:16<cl4sh>this same answer
14:17<Magotari>Ok. Can you get vnuml to print out the command line for uml?
14:17<cl4sh>i dont understand
14:17<Magotari>At a certain point vnumparser must run the kernel somehow.
14:18<Magotari>I would like to see the line which it uses to run it.
14:18<Magotari>This might need a small hack in the source code, but should be pretty easy.
14:18<cl4sh>ok i will try
14:26|-|tyler29 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:29<cl4sh>Magotari: i found somthing but thi is perl its not my stregth side
14:30<cl4sh>Magotari: its many varibels
14:37<Magotari>I don't know perl at all, I hate it really.
14:37<Magotari>Looks like a crashed whale. I am a python guy.
14:39<cl4sh>i found section called
14:40<cl4sh>#UML kernel to being booted
14:40<Magotari>Ok, excellent.
14:41|-|tyler29 [] has joined #uml
14:42<cl4sh>but it look like this thing make some function
14:42<cl4sh> thisi is section UML kernel to booting
14:43<cl4sh>next isi should look for getElementsByTagName function definition ?
14:44<Magotari>Could you tell perl to print the variable kernel?
14:44<Magotari>I think that is what we need.
14:45<cl4sh>how to print something in perl
14:49|-|mgross [~mgross@] has joined #uml
14:50<cl4sh>one moment
14:52<cl4sh>Magotari: /usr/local/share/vnuml/kernels/linux
14:53<cl4sh>lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 24 pa 20 21:09 /usr/local/share/vnuml/kernels/linux -> linux-
14:53<cl4sh>looks good doeasnt work
14:53<Magotari>Hmmm. That is all? Just the kernel name? I expected more.
14:53<Magotari>Like the rootfs name.
14:54<cl4sh>i do this same for fs
14:54<Magotari>I think we need to print @params too.
14:54<Magotari>I should have noticed that one earlier.
15:01|-|duns_s [] has joined #uml
15:01<Magotari>Please try booting the kernel and the fs listed, without using vnuml.
15:10<Magotari>Now, try with the 32bit kernel from the website, and the vnuml rootfs.
15:12<cl4sh>ive dona it
15:12<cl4sh>kernel panic
15:13<cl4sh>Magotari: no
15:14<cl4sh>32bit booting good
15:17<Magotari>So it worked? Please backup the vnuml kernel, and then overwrite it with the kernel you used which worked.
15:17<cl4sh>when i make symbolic linc to kernel32 ikn vnuml dir crash
15:19<cl4sh>Magotari: it must be problem with vnuml
15:19<cl4sh>fs is ok
15:20<cl4sh>i think the problem is in perl script
15:20<Magotari>Could be.
15:21<cl4sh>i suspect that this all problems is because mkisofs
15:21<cl4sh>theres no other way
15:21<Magotari>I am doubtful about that, as vnuml tried to boot a combination which would not work. I think it is a kernel/fs matter.
15:21<cl4sh>fs boot goot with good kernel
15:22<cl4sh>32bit kernel from site
15:22<cl4sh>then fs is ok
15:22|-|aroscha [] has joined #uml
15:22<Magotari>Could you overwrite the vnuml kernel after making a backup and then try booting the scenario?
15:23<cl4sh>when i try to boot with this same kernel but through vnuml it crash
15:23<cl4sh>i wass try to do thata
15:23<cl4sh>its not work
15:23<Magotari>:/ Ok, so vnuml is at fault somehow.
15:24<Magotari>Pfffft. I have no idea what to do next.
15:26<cl4sh>hmmm sytrange
15:27<cl4sh>is that mean - work fine
15:27<Magotari>Looks like it worked.
15:27<Magotari>Try booting a more advanced scenario now. :)
15:28<cl4sh>im tryin'
15:29<cl4sh>seems work fine
15:29<cl4sh>without bad errors
15:29<cl4sh>only SKAS0 mode
15:29<cl4sh> :P
15:29<Magotari>Ok, we can live with skas0.
15:29<Magotari>Not lethal.
15:29<Magotari>So, there you go. It's working. Enjoy. :)
15:30<Magotari>How long was it now? 8 hours? :)
15:30<Magotari>They are shipping a shitkernel.
15:30<cl4sh>strang problem
15:30<Magotari>Probably works fine on a x86, but 32 bit.
15:30<cl4sh>once it works once crashing
15:30<cl4sh>that was a graet battle
15:31<Magotari>Anyway, enjoy your new snazzy UML network. :)
15:31<Magotari>If you ever have trouble with UML again, feel free to come here and ask more questions.
15:31<cl4sh>thnx a lot
15:32<Magotari>Welcome. :)
15:32<cl4sh>a appriciaate Your scrifice
15:32<Magotari>Let me see...
15:33<cl4sh>sorry for mine tragic english
15:33<Magotari>I am sick and have nothing to do. Better to help a person than play mindless computer games all day.
15:33<Magotari>Hey, no problem.
15:33<Magotari>It is not too bad, really.
15:33<cl4sh>true true
15:34<Magotari>I could understand you 99% of the time. This is good.
15:34<Magotari>Really, not too bad.
15:34<Magotari>That was a great battle indeed. :)
15:35<cl4sh>only battle before me is great war :D :D
15:35<Magotari>Anyway, why do you want to have a virtual network? Just for fun? Or school?
15:36<cl4sh>i want to begin studing telecomiunication (voip,asterisk) things
15:36<cl4sh>and to do that i need network
15:36<cl4sh>but ive got only one computer
15:36<Magotari>(Just a note, this channel did not have so much activity as we caused for two years. [2005])
15:37<Magotari>Ah, yes.
15:37<Magotari>UML is the best virtual machine for networks, if you ask me.
15:38<cl4sh>iwas tryin UML alone
15:38<cl4sh>but it was not good idea
15:38<Magotari>Oh? What do you mean?
15:38<cl4sh>iwas tryin vmware
15:38<cl4sh>and vserver
15:38<cl4sh>a there is time for vnuml
15:39<cl4sh>i hadnt got enough knowledge
15:39<Magotari>Erm, I am afraid I don't understand the last sentence. Do you mean "And there is time for vnuml"?
15:39<cl4sh>to find out goot root_fs
15:40<cl4sh>cuz vserver make many problems with interface
15:41<cl4sh>i rad that vnuml do this thing ok
15:41<Magotari>Aha. I don't know any vmware products, as I am an open source zealot. I heard some good stuff about it, but I would never use it.
15:42<Magotari>I think that there is a nice thing for making networks too..
15:42<Magotari>Let me remember the name...
15:42<Magotari>OpenVZ, I think.
15:42<cl4sh>yes I know
15:42<cl4sh>but i didnt try it
15:43<Magotari>I heard not too great things about it, and I never had the chance to try it out because I need a 2.6.23 kernel for normal system functioning.
15:43<cl4sh>very important is commiunity
15:43<Magotari>One thing about it: It is fast. So if UML does not go fast enough, you might want to try it.
15:44<cl4sh>as I know vnuml have very good commiunity
15:44<Magotari>Community is the reason why I came here, because my previous project had horrible one.
15:44<cl4sh>oh i see
15:44<Magotari>I found a bug in UML... Reported it here.
15:44<cl4sh>oh i see
15:45<Magotari>Then I kinda stuck around, fiding bugs... I don't know C, so I am not much more use...
15:45<cl4sh>im not good at prgraming
15:45<cl4sh>i know basics
15:45<Magotari>But I made my first patch two days ago. To Kconfig. And one line. But it is a start...
15:45<cl4sh>i can do simple thins
15:45<Magotari>Yeah, me too.
15:45<Magotari>With python I can go far, but C kills me ASAP.
15:45<cl4sh>yes of couras ;)
15:46<Magotari>Not too great if you want to be a kernel hacker one day.
15:46<Magotari>One thing I have to say. Being a bughunter here feels better than being the dialogue writer for FreedroidRPG.
15:46<Magotari>Because the people actually listen to you.
15:46<cl4sh>oh i see
15:47<Magotari>Here they actually say: "I am just not reproducing it", instead of "This is a fault of your toolchain."
15:47<cl4sh>i was play in freedroid
15:47<Magotari>Heh, really? :)
15:47<cl4sh>quite good
15:47<cl4sh>i only wonder why
15:47<Magotari>Yeah, it is, but we have shipped bugs with 10.0.2 and 10.0.3.
15:47<cl4sh>it was so short :P
15:47<Magotari>No manpower.
15:47<cl4sh>oh i see
15:48<Magotari>I left because I reported the bugs in 10.0.3 and no one did a damn.
15:48<Magotari>ANd people from my school kinda rushed me asking wtf someone was thinking.
15:48<Magotari>Yeah, the bugs were in dialogue engine. ANd I was the dialogue writer. So people thought it is my fault.
15:48<cl4sh>naturally reaction ?
15:48<Magotari>And the damn maintainer had a week to fix them. Instead he did absolutely NOTHING.
15:49<Magotari>Sorry to go on about it, I just feel bitter.
15:49<cl4sh>i think if would do something in open soource
15:49<cl4sh>it will be something in my prfesion
15:50<cl4sh>there are many projects of voip soft centrals
15:50<cl4sh>few really big
15:50<cl4sh>and i am interesting
15:50<cl4sh>the problem is in hardware
15:51<cl4sh>tele hardware is really expensive
15:51<Magotari>No way to virtualize it somehow?
15:51<cl4sh>there is way
15:51|-|tyler29 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:51<cl4sh>im goin' this way
15:51<Magotari>Good. I say: Follow your dreams.
15:52<cl4sh>good sentence
15:52<Magotari>I am trying to do it. It is not easy, but I am happy.
15:52<cl4sh>i know at my university there is reallty few peapole who interested this subject
15:53<cl4sh>but my guru Ph.D. :p
15:53<Magotari>I don't think there is such a subject in school as telecomunications. And we have UMCS.
15:53<Magotari>I mean, in Lublin.
15:53<Magotari>Universytet Marii Curie Sklodowskiej. :)
15:53<Magotari>A nice place, I wish I had gone there. *sigh*
15:53<cl4sh>ah si
15:54<cl4sh>wonder about tele subject :P
15:54<Magotari>brb, gotta eat. Fighting vnuml made me quite hungry.
15:54<cl4sh>AGH is quite good and they have money
15:55<cl4sh>as i said my Ph.D. last time on lecture said something about big project
15:55<cl4sh>about opensource protocol called SIP
15:56<cl4sh>this thing is useful in voip
15:56<Magotari>I don't even know what SIP is. :)
15:56<cl4sh>and i must be in it
15:56<cl4sh>good :)
15:56<cl4sh>You know some dayi will go to him and tell
15:57<cl4sh>my dear ph.d. look what i've done and i show him virtualized asteris
15:58<Magotari>Yeah. :)
15:58<cl4sh>and what we do today was little step to do that
15:58<Magotari>Here is a funny thought. You can put the rootfs file onto a nfs and run it remotely with a kernel on a different machine.
15:58<cl4sh>this man have big connections with company like alatel,ericson, dgt and other
15:58<Magotari>So if you ever have a loose machine and need some CPU time... :)
15:59<cl4sh>iknow that
15:59<Magotari>Ah, I see.
15:59<Magotari>Yeah, lots of big names.
15:59<Magotari>You must know that virtualization is big nowadays.
15:59<Magotari>People love it.
15:59<cl4sh>i know
16:00<cl4sh>last summer and spring i was on few conference
16:00<cl4sh>meet some people from sun microsystems also diroctor of tlecomunictions from orang(ptk centrtel)
16:00|-|aroscha [] has quit [Quit: aroscha]
16:00<cl4sh>evrybody talked abiput virtualization
16:00|-|newbie [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:01<Magotari>I see.
16:01<Magotari>Yeah, SUN has containers, I think.
16:01<cl4sh>and finnaly this idea with virtualization of asterisk was bring to me by director of telecomuniction from nordea bank
16:01<Magotari>Wow. More big names.
16:06<cl4sh>one tim on forum
16:06<cl4sh>i was aks about open source in telecomiunications
16:06<cl4sh>and he said "if was student i will do that"
16:06<cl4sh>means virtualization of asterisk
16:06<cl4sh>and said about vmware and vserver
16:06<cl4sh>and when i was searching somday iwas found uml and vnuml
16:06<Magotari>Looks like you have a completely open source solution...
16:06<cl4sh>im tryin be free :P
16:06<Magotari>Hmm... That is rather good news to me too. :)
16:06<Magotari>Yeah, I hear you. :)
16:06<Magotari>I have a radeon card. I use open source drivers. Horrible, but free. Ugh.
16:06<Magotari>Really, horrible.
16:06<cl4sh>i know
16:06<cl4sh>ati sucks open source
16:06<cl4sh>it will be changed
16:06<Magotari>Yeah. I have a card which is barely supported.
16:06<Magotari>r432, I think.
16:06<cl4sh>ive got nvidia gefoce 7300
16:06<cl4sh>but i dont need good graph
16:06<cl4sh>i love console
16:06<Magotari>Heh, me too.
16:06<Magotari>I grew up on DOS. :)
16:06<Magotari>Now, even though I have X, I use irssi in an xterm.
16:06<cl4sh>commoore 64 ?
16:06<Magotari>No, only x86 computers.
16:06<Magotari>486/66 was my first.
16:06<Magotari>Then a P/166, which I still have.
16:06<cl4sh>my firs was comodore
16:06<cl4sh>first really pc computer when i was 14
16:07<Magotari>Now I have two, the laptop here is called "hushie" and my trusted BlackBox.
16:07<cl4sh>its was late
16:08<Magotari>Yeah, true.
16:08<Magotari>I am getting tired, which is strange. I slept 12 hours today. I woke up just before I came into the channel.
16:08<Magotari>Being sick does that to you, I guess.
16:09<cl4sh>today i was sleep only 5h
16:09<cl4sh>but i thin i will go sleep at 7 o'clock tomorow
16:09<cl4sh>maybe i wouldnt sleep
16:09<Magotari>In the morning?
16:10<cl4sh>when i was begin using linux
16:10<cl4sh>the night between suterday and sunday wass sleepless
16:11<Magotari>Heh. :)
16:11<cl4sh>but as you seen im still newbie
16:11<Magotari>I'm pretty green myself. Just a year and a half, but I know not much at all.
16:11<cl4sh>ok i will go trough tutorial of vnuml
16:11<Magotari>Have fun.
16:11<cl4sh>good night
16:11<Magotari>If you have any questions, feel free to ask.
16:12<Magotari>I am not going to sleep yet.
16:12<Magotari>Maybe soon... :) We shall see.
16:12<cl4sh>thin i will often came here
16:13<Magotari>See you later.
16:13<cl4sh>oh im usually on gentoo-pl at
16:14|-|tyler29 [] has joined #uml
16:14|-|cl4sh [] has left #uml []
16:26|-|tyler29 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:33|-|kos_tom [] has quit [Quit: I like core dumps]
16:41|-|mgross [~mgross@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:41|-|smubeht [~smubeht@] has joined #uml
16:41<smubeht>what is this channel?
16:42|-|tyler29 [] has joined #uml
16:42<smubeht>is this a place to get help with UML diagrams?
16:43<Magotari>Erm, no. :)
16:43<Magotari>This is User Mode Linux.
16:43<Magotari>Try #uml at
16:43<smubeht> heh
16:44<smubeht> Thanks
16:44<Magotari>Confusing acronym, eh?
16:44<smubeht> indeed
16:44<Magotari>Guess how I found the freenode place. :)
16:44<smubeht> so what is this stuff?
16:44<Magotari>A virtual machine, simply put.
16:44<Magotari>You can run Linux as a normal process inside Linux.
16:44<smubeht> like running virtual machines within a regular linux system?
16:44<Magotari>Pretty fun, and easy to set up.
16:45<Magotari>Yeah, exactly.
16:45<smubeht> i dont run linux on my machine
16:45<smubeht> i have never used it even
16:45<Magotari>Aha. Too bad. Linux can be a lot of fun, and its free. :)
16:45<smubeht> how does it compare to like xp and macos
16:45<smubeht> not in terms of stability
16:45<Magotari>Let me see...
16:45<smubeht> i mean in userfriendliness and the ability to run things that are built for those os
16:46<Magotari>I would say Ubuntu is pretty user friendly, really.
16:46<Magotari>I don't know MacOS.
16:46<Magotari>I say it is pretty good.
16:46<Magotari>Will take a while getting used to, but once I get into it, you won't look back.
16:46<Magotari>That is my opinion, of course.
16:46<Magotari>Hey, get a LiveCD, just try moving around in a system like that.
16:46<Magotari>Just try it, then you will know for yourself.
16:47<smubeht>what would u recommend on livecd ubuntu u said?
16:48<Magotari>Yes, either Ubuntu or Mint.
16:48<Magotari>That is the best for a start.
16:48<smubeht>so now with user mode linux what is point of running virtual machines on ur own machine
16:48<Magotari>Heh. Simple. :)
16:48<Magotari>You can experiment.
16:48<Magotari>We have cow files here.
16:49<smubeht>haha funny i go looking for uml diagrams and i end up learning about linux =)
16:49<Magotari>Ever wondered would your system boot without a directory?
16:49<Magotari>Here you can try it, on a system within a system.
16:49<smubeht>ah ic
16:49<Magotari>ANd if it won't boot, you just tell it to forget the changes.
16:49<Magotari>And your internal system it back to normal.
16:49<Magotari>Also, it is for secutiry.
16:49<Magotari>See, someone might hack your computer...
16:50<Magotari>That is quite bad.
16:50<Magotari>So, you put a virtual machine inside it.
16:50<Magotari>THey can take over your virtual machine, yes.
16:50<smubeht> its hard to hack into a linux run machine though no?
16:50<Magotari>But they won't be able to damage anything else though.
16:50<Magotari>Yes, it is very hard, but it can be done if someone is skilled enough.
16:50<smubeht> but what would stop them from hacking past the vm?
16:50<Magotari>In Linux we don't have viruses.
16:50<Magotari>Hmm... Let me think how to explain this.
16:51<smubeht> Yeah, I am a complete novice when it comes to things pertaining to Linux.
16:51<Magotari>In most virtual machines, the system inside your real system does not have any access to your real system.
16:51<Magotari>It is stuck in a limited amount of space, ram...
16:51<Magotari>It cannot get out of what you give it.
16:52<Magotari>Another reason for virtual machines is making more computers than you have.
16:52<Magotari>On one computer you can have many networks of imaginary computers running.
16:52<Magotari>Great practice for a sysadmin job, or just for fun.
16:52<Magotari>Try QEMU, it can work in Windows too. It is slow, slower than UML, but it works.
16:53<smubeht> so basically u run ur apps in the vm, which is basically secured off from ur important system files..and if someone hacks u they end up where u work in and can only do what u can do in that vm?
16:53<Magotari>Yes, precisely.
16:53<smubeht> but dont u lose benefits of using ur whole system while being in that vm?
16:53<Magotari>They cannot get to your real system, so the whole machine is not lost.
16:53<Magotari>Yes, they can do anything inside a virtual machine. But that is inside. A small compartment.
16:54<smubeht> no what i mean is
16:54<Magotari>Easy to reinstall, easy to rewind to a good state, easy to disconnect from the network.
16:54<smubeht> the part they hack into is the same part that u get to work in no?
16:54<Magotari>Hmm... No. Your own files are safe.
16:56<smubeht> Hrmm I guess I am not getting this clearly. You run a linux system. You create a VM. Now this VM is where you can use your computer? Or is the VM setup just for possible hackers? If it is where you use your computer, doesn't it limit what you can do on your computer as well?
16:56<Magotari>Ok... Let me try to explain again.
16:57<Magotari>You run a Linux system.
16:57<smubeht> k
16:57<Magotari>If you need to have a server or something else which is connected to the network, you can put that into a virtual machine.
16:57<Magotari>Hackers would attack things like web servers, dns servers, mail programs...
16:58<Magotari>You can put them into a virtual machine.
16:58<Magotari>You work in a real system.
16:58<Magotari>The hacker entry points are in a virtual machine.
16:58<smubeht> ah i see
16:58<Magotari>If you insist however, you can also work only in a virtual machine. Not really needed, but it can be done.
16:59<Magotari>In Linux the question is not really "if" but "how".
16:59<Magotari>Ah, and one more thing.
16:59<Magotari>Not UML, but QEMU can run a different operating system than the one you are using.
16:59<Magotari>So if you want to play around with different Operating Systems, you can do that.
16:59<smubeht> awesome
17:00<Magotari>There is a funny OS called Syllable.
17:00<Magotari>It is in developement, so unstable.
17:00<smubeht> any good?
17:00<smubeht> oh
17:00<Magotari>Starts to be good, but not there yet.
17:00<Magotari>But with QEMU you can try it out.
17:01<Magotari>Or hey, you could even try Linux, FreeBSD, whatever inside QEMU.
17:01<Magotari>Virtual machines are very fun, if you want to play around.
17:01<Magotari>If the system hangs, you just click the X in the corner of the window. :)
17:01<smubeht> ah so my machine wont crash by running an unstable os
17:02<smubeht> just the vm?
17:02<smubeht> That is awesome.
17:02<Magotari>It is an imaginary computer inside your real one.
17:03<Magotari>And you can do whatever you want with it. Close it. Open it. Delete files randomly. (Great stress relief).
17:03<Magotari>In many VMs the system inside a vm does not even know that it runs under a virtual machine.
17:03<Magotari>Like Matrix, you know?
17:04<smubeht> ah
17:04<smubeht> yeah i get what your saying
17:04<Magotari>I was running MS WIN XP under qemu in full screen.
17:04<Magotari>My dad entered the room.
17:05<Magotari>He played around with Windows and then I turned the vm off and he saw Linux. That was fun.
17:05<smubeht> lol
17:05<smubeht> there is no1 on in that uml channel lol
17:06<smubeht> =(
17:06<Magotari>I think I had some links for it. Sec.
17:06|-|cl4sh [] has joined #uml
17:07<Magotari>Ah, I cannot find them anymore. Sorry.
17:07<Magotari>Hey, cl4sh. VNUML problems again? :)
17:09<cl4sh>how i should answer
17:09<cl4sh>yes problem
17:09<Magotari>Ok. :)
17:09<cl4sh>i cant write to /tmp
17:09<Magotari>Host or guest?
17:10<cl4sh>i think its related with mkiosfs
17:10<cl4sh>we should rapair the
17:10<Magotari>df /tmp
17:10<cl4sh>/dev/hdb5 7692876 5752876 1549224 79% /
17:11<cl4sh>its enough space
17:11<Magotari>Are you sure?
17:11<Magotari>Ok, what are the permissions on /tmp/ ?
17:11|-|aroscha [] has joined #uml
17:11<cl4sh>good idea
17:12<cl4sh>drwxrwxrwt 19 root root 4096 pa 21 00:07 tmp
17:12<Magotari>Btw, do you know any links to Unified Modelling Language? smubeht came here looking for a different UML, and I cannot help him.
17:12<Magotari>Irc channels and such.
17:12<Magotari>Ok, so the permissions are fine.
17:13<Magotari>Try making a file inside /tmp/
17:13<smubeht> =)
17:13<Magotari>touch /tmp/test or something.
17:13<cl4sh>unfortunetly two similar names
17:13<Magotari>Yes, I know.
17:13<Magotari>Both mostly invoked with the acronym.
17:14<cl4sh>not prob;em with touch
17:14<Magotari>Ok. Now, do you have any UMLs going?
17:14<cl4sh>how to check it?
17:14<Magotari>Erm, ps does the trick.
17:15<cl4sh>seems not
17:15<Magotari>Sorry, ps aux
17:16|-|tyler29 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:17<cl4sh>much of lunched vnuml
17:17<Magotari>This is a bug fixed recently.
17:17<Magotari>When a UML dies in a panic, it leaves 3 processes.
17:17<Magotari>Kill them all, then try it.
17:18<Magotari>Upgrading to a -mm guest could fix the problem.
17:18<Magotari>With the ghosts, I mean.
17:19<Magotari>Oh, and first shutdown any currently living UMLs or they will go with the ghosts.
17:19<Magotari>To finish some off you might need a killall -9.
17:19<cl4sh>ive got few zombie
17:19<cl4sh>ok i will reboot
17:19<Magotari>Zombie? UML? Wtf?
17:19<Magotari>I guess vnuml did not reap them.
17:20<Magotari>If you killall vnuml the defunct processes...
17:20<Magotari>They will become orphans, and orphans are reaped by init.
17:20<Magotari>Kill the parent to get rid of the zombie children.
17:21<cl4sh>i cant kill him
17:21<cl4sh>i cant kill it
17:21<cl4sh>even -9
17:21<Magotari>Even with -9 ?
17:21<Magotari>Funny that.
17:21|-|cl4sh [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
17:25|-|cl4sh [] has joined #uml
17:25<Magotari>Now try to run whatever you wanted to run before. :)
17:26<cl4sh>main::main (525): /tmp/uml1-conf (filetree) is not readable/executable (user vnuml)
17:27<Magotari>I thought /tmp/ is 777?
17:28<Magotari>I see that the code is as beautiful as the language in which it was written. WTF?
17:28<Magotari>Do you have vnuml drop priviliges?
17:28<cl4sh>what is this?
17:28<Magotari>And do you have a user vnuml.
17:28<Magotari>Ok, you start a program as root, right?
17:29<Magotari>But then the program stops being root, turns into a normal user.
17:29<Magotari>It changes its uid and gid to cause less damage to the system in case of a hacker attack.
17:29<cl4sh>thats the problem ?
17:29<Magotari>It might be.
17:29<Magotari>Do you have a vnuml user?
17:29<Magotari>In your system?
17:29<Magotari>Aha. I see.
17:30<Magotari>Can you make vnuml not drop priviliges somehom?
17:30<cl4sh>i dont know wht this means
17:30<Magotari>Can you make it not change the user?
17:31<Magotari> -u user, if run as root, UML and uml_switch processes will be owned by
17:31<Magotari> this user instead (default vnuml)
17:31<Magotari>Ok, so please add -u root into the commandline. That could help a bit.
17:31<Magotari>Yeah, it has a drop on by default, to user vnuml.
17:32<cl4sh>main::main (525): /tmp/uml1-conf (filetree) is not readable/executable (user root)
17:32|-|smubeht [~smubeht@] has left #uml []
17:33<Magotari>Ok, the second idea is this: The file does not exist somehow.
17:33<cl4sh>Magotari: i really think that its mkiosfs problem
17:33<Magotari>Yeah, I guess that can be it.
17:33<Magotari>Let me look at your past logs again.
17:33<Magotari>I have the links somewhere.
17:35|-|tyler29 [] has joined #uml
17:35<cl4sh>i.e. Unknown file type (unallocated) /tmp/vnuml_opt_fs.uTxg7y
17:36<Magotari>Yeah... That. Erm...
17:36<cl4sh>vnuml in some way use mkisofs
17:36<Magotari>I only wonder why does it do that.
17:36<Magotari>Who needs a ^*%%&^$ iso here?
17:36<cl4sh>i dont know
17:36<cl4sh>maybe this some way of storin data
17:37<cl4sh>in vnuml requirements in kernel must be compiled loop
17:37<Magotari>Yeah, but UML has much simpler ways of getting files from the host. ubdb=/home/karol/linux.tar.bz2 will work.
17:38<cl4sh>few hours agoo You said that you know what the "-q" means
17:38<Magotari>No, I don't know. I want to know.
17:38<Magotari>What is used to mean anyway, it is not there anymore.
17:38<Magotari>I guess it meant "quiet".
17:38<cl4sh>maybe in some way it shoul dbe
17:39<Magotari>Let me read the crashed whale code, maybe I can figure it out. *shiver*
17:39<cl4sh>what You want to read the xml file /
17:39<Magotari>No, the perl code.
17:41|-|Electric1lf [~dbharris@] has joined #uml
17:42<Magotari>Very nice, it has no checking for success or failure of its operations.
17:44<Magotari>Look at the comment starting with line 82.
17:45<Magotari>This is bloody stupid to involve an iso into this. A single tarball is good enough, damnit. No need to complicate. Grr.
17:46<cl4sh>im blind
17:46<Magotari>I think that -q meant quiet, in other words -- simply cosmetic.
17:46<cl4sh>i didnt saw that
17:48|-|ElectricElf [~dbharris@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:49<cl4sh>symlink at rc point (/etc/rc.d/rc3.d/S11umlboot is suggested)
17:49<cl4sh>great idea
17:50<Magotari>The problem happens between lines 415 and 520.
17:50<Magotari>Erm, 420.
17:50<Magotari>But what is "$> = $uid;" in perl?
17:50<Magotari>Especially $>
17:51<cl4sh>i have no idea
17:52<Magotari>I am at #perl, trying to find out. :)
17:54<Magotari>oftc is a sleepy server, often you don't get a reply at all.
17:55<cl4sh>symlink at rc point (/etc/rc.d/rc3.d/S11umlboot is suggested) pointing to
17:55<cl4sh># what do You think about that
17:55<cl4sh>in gento there's no /etc/rc.d
17:57<Magotari>Yeah. :/
17:57<Magotari>I have no idea what to do. I always used Gentoo or Slackware, and I never played with Slackware's init.
17:58<Magotari>Aha. $> means effective user id.
17:58<cl4sh>whatever it means
17:58<Magotari>It means the current user.
17:59<Magotari>Root has uid 0.
17:59<cl4sh>uhm simple
17:59<cl4sh>that i know
18:00<cl4sh>wow i was found some umlboot related files
18:00<Magotari>Ugh. Let me see... I think the code goes thusly.
18:00<Magotari>If we are root, then my $uid_name = getpwuid($uid);
18:00<Magotari>What does $uid mean then? AAAAA!
18:02<cl4sh>getpwuid() functions return a pointer to a passwd structure
18:02<cl4sh>passwd struct have all info about user
18:03<Magotari>Yeah. :/
18:03<cl4sh>sth wrong?
18:03<Magotari>Could you edit line 418 to be printf(system(...)); ?
18:03<Magotari>I would love to see the return value from the chmod.
18:04<Magotari>Erm, just don't remove the contents of the system() as I did.
18:07<cl4sh>the answer is 0
18:07<cl4sh>seems goot
18:07<Magotari>Yeah, it does.
18:11<Magotari>Yes, because this is not the error lies, it is a similar but not same error message.
18:12<Magotari>THe error is at, line 480. :(
18:13<Magotari>Do you have any <filetree> in the config file?
18:13<Magotari> #11. To check <filetree>
18:13<Magotari> my $filetree_list = $vm->getElementsByTagName("filetree");
18:14<Magotari>By config file, I mean the XML which sets up the network.
18:15<cl4sh>i don't know
18:17<Magotari>Well, seems like it is during validating that part vnuml freaks out.
18:22|-|aroscha_ [] has joined #uml
18:22|-|aroscha [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
18:25<cl4sh>Magotari: filetree means a structure of xml?
18:27<cl4sh>yes there is filetree
18:28<cl4sh><filetree root="/" seq="start">/tmp/uml1-conf</filetree>
18:28<cl4sh>the error from console
18:30<Magotari>Does the uml1-conf file exist?
18:32<Magotari>Maybe touch it?
18:34<cl4sh>i dont understan this same problem
18:34<Magotari>Yeah. :/
18:35<cl4sh>if i give it 777
18:35<cl4sh>main::main (526): /tmp/uml1-conf (filetree) is not a valid directory
18:35<Magotari>rm uml1-conf; mkdir uml1-conf
18:36<Magotari>Oopsie, my fault there.
18:38<Magotari>Ok. That is a host kernel issue.
18:38<Magotari>You need to have the tuntap networking stuff in order.
18:38<cl4sh>ok i will compile it
18:38<cl4sh>one more
18:41<Magotari>It kinda looks like you need to have it as a module too. Groan. I don't even have module support in my kernels. *sigh*
18:41[~]linbot dispenses cookies and milk
18:42[~]caker pats linbot on the head
18:45<cl4sh>i should copy it ?
18:45<Magotari>This channel has been more busy only four more times, ever, according to the log size.
18:46<Magotari>Copy what?
18:46<cl4sh>look at paste
18:47<Magotari>Did it give you a working mconsole?
18:47<cl4sh>in /root/.uml ive got only names generated by ssh
18:47<Magotari>If so, there is no need to do anything.
18:47<Magotari>It looks in three places, so if there are no three warnings, it should work. I think anyway.
18:47<cl4sh>then i shouldynt care this warnings?
18:47<Magotari>Provided that it works, no.
18:47<Magotari>Warnings are not errors.
18:47<cl4sh>yes it works
18:47<Magotari>Then you are fine.
18:48<cl4sh>thersno net but it is tun problem
18:48<caker>Magotari: you're number 27 most active -- welcome to the list :)
18:48<Magotari>I feel like a junkie now. :)
18:48<Magotari>Thanks for the welcome.
18:49<Magotari>I guess I am a virtual machine junkie. :)
18:49<cl4sh>grtz :P
18:49<caker>same (plus it's my job)
18:49<Magotari>Flaming envy. I wish it were mine. :)
18:49<Magotari>One day... When my patches are not a oneliner anymore...
18:49<caker><-- guy
18:49<Magotari>Hello then. :)
18:50<Magotari>No wonder you are second in the list. :)
18:50<Magotari>I actually tried to do something like your control panel, but when I saw it was done before, I dropped the project. Never got much further than def main():
18:51<Magotari>At least I keep on trying. :)
18:51<caker>control panel was easy -- the billing system took megatime
18:51<Magotari>I imagine.
18:51<caker>most people can write buy not read code, so I consider your talent to read code a gift
18:51<Magotari>Why, thank you. :)
18:52<Magotari>Yeah, I can read it just fine, but when it comes to writing... Unless it is python, I die horribly.
18:52<caker>plus, once you get over whatever coder's block you have, you'll totally kick ass
18:52<Magotari>Thanks. /me blushes.
18:53<Magotari>Yeah, I was top in algorithmics in my class.
18:53<Magotari>I wish I knew what is my problem. I keep on trying C and failing.
18:53<Magotari>I know the syntax, it is just... I am out of ideas when I try writing code.
18:55<cl4sh>Magotari: thx 4 all
18:56|-|cl4sh [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
18:57<Magotari>I swear, one day I will do this for a living. Tech support, I mean.
19:00<Magotari>Wow. My next Kconfig patch will be a twoliner, and it will span two files. Wow. Progress.
19:27|-|tyler29 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:07|-|duns_s [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:59|-|aroscha_ [] has quit [Quit: aroscha_]
21:08|-|Nem^ [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
21:17|-|Nem^ [] has joined #uml
22:04|-|smubeht [~smubeht@] has joined #uml
22:04|-|smubeht [~smubeht@] has left #uml []
22:04|-|smubeht [~smubeht@] has joined #uml
22:04|-|smubeht [~smubeht@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:58|-|VS_ChanLog [] has left #uml [Rotating Logs]
22:58|-|VS_ChanLog [] has joined #uml
---Logclosed Sun Oct 21 00:00:01 2007