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#xen IRC Logs for 2005-04-08

---Logopened Fri Apr 08 00:00:47 2005
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03:07mael hi
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08:22cfreak hello
08:22mael hi
08:24cfreak kernel xen.gz dom0_mem=131072
08:24cfreak Error 1: Filename must be either an absolute pathname or blocklist
08:25murb cfreak: did you forget to set root ?
08:26cfreak menu.lst [..] 1st title, 2nd kernel xen.gz dom0_mem=.. 3rd module vmlinuz-2.6.10-xen0 root=/dev/hda3 ro console=tty0
08:28murb so you need to either set root (hdwhatever,whereever) or do it for ever file reverence.
09:09cfreak thank you, also a / was missing.
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09:23soffi hola senjores y senjoritas
09:23mael hi soffi
09:23soffi hi mael
09:25soffi mael: the tarball is now on the page
09:26mael ok cool
09:26mael I forgot to remove stuff in the /etc/inetd.conf and disallow portmapper to start at boot time though
09:26mael I doing too many stuff at the same time nowadays
09:26soffi me too :) swamped with work
09:27mael and I don't have snow storm for excuses :)
09:29soffi hehe
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10:26mael mmmh it seems that I was wrong when I thought the aliguori's work was about re-writing xend in c
10:27mael Sir_Ahzz: I guess you fooled me :)
10:27tsystems Does it make sense to have other services running in domain 0?
10:27@Sir_Ahzz mael: meh?
10:28--- User: *** tsystems is now known as dtrumb
10:28@Sir_Ahzz someone is redoing xend in C.
10:28@Sir_Ahzz dunno who.
10:28jeroney mael: aliguori's work is eventually to rewrite everything in C
10:29mael including xend?
10:29@Sir_Ahzz I *think* so.
10:29jeroney mael: future goal yes, xend will no longer be needed
10:29* mael couldn't find in his irc log who told about a complete xend rewrite
10:29mael jeroney: oh? how comes?
10:29@Sir_Ahzz I've been toying with it off and on for a while now.
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10:30@Sir_Ahzz I stopped primarilly because someone else many months ago started doing the same full time.
10:30* Sir_Ahzz has to run for a bit.
10:30jeroney mael: have to rewrite other stuff, then work with commmunity on how xend should be replaced
10:30jeroney mael: aligouri is my office mate
10:30mael Sir_Ahzz: someone told about throwing the python stuff to have an initrd full dom0
10:31soffi note to self: do not use my Celeron work machine for testing
10:31mael jeroney: Yeah and you're the FC4 guys :)
10:31jeroney mael: but currently the idea now is to have everything co exist
10:31jeroney mael: haha ... my rep procedes me
10:31mael yeah
10:31jeroney mael: I do FC4 on my free time at home
10:31mael I've been digging around
10:32mael btw could you tell Anthony that his resum\xE9 is not available anymore? :)
10:33jeroney mael: haha, yeah I'll let him know, he's a little genious ...he's still got sometime before he graduates
10:33mael and getting his vm-tools & libxen package is not an easy job if you don't have the full url under the hand
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10:34mael he should maybe make a separate directory under his homedir
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10:38jeroney mael: eventually they will be in the xen tree .. then no need for that...I'll give him the suggestion though
10:43mael this is just to allow testing as long as it is not ready
10:43mael since I had trouble finding it
10:43mael I had to dig in my mails to get it back
10:44mael google can't archive it as there's no link nor directory
10:45murb
10:45murb
10:46murb hmm
10:54mael there's a difference between OLS 2004 paper and Linux World 2005 paper that I don't get
10:54mael it concern the architecture drawing
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10:54mael +s
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10:56mael there's a mix between the front-end drivers on one paper and the backend/native devices drivers on the other
10:56mael I think this is just a question of vocabulary/glossary but I don't get it
10:56--- User: *** anticw is now known as cw
10:56mael any clue from the crowd?
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11:06mael mmh I'll send a mail then :)
11:06mael it's week-end time by now
11:07mael bye
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11:19@Sir_Ahzz mael, the old way was driversin the xen kernel for speed.
11:20@Sir_Ahzz they decided it was too much troubleand dupe of effort to do that though, so they moved to having dom0(or domx driver dom) export from native drivers.
11:20eigood fix your space
11:20* Sir_Ahzz spaces eigood
11:21@Sir_Ahzz nothing like rummaging through your own storage shed full ofcomputer parts to find interesting things.
11:21* Sir_Ahzz needsanew kb.
11:27--- ---> smcavoy [~smcavoy@grimlock.drive-megawheels.net] has joined #xen
11:28smcavoy anyone know where I might find Debian packages for Xen?
11:28@Sir_Ahzz testing?
11:28@Sir_Ahzz ask eigood.
11:28smcavoy Sir_Ahzz: not in testing, at least not 2.0
11:29murb smcavoy: in expermiental
11:29murb smcavoy: experimental even
11:29* Sir_Ahzz smacks his head. duh. meant to say that. 8-P
11:30smcavoy murb: thanks. I hope it can be found on mirrors, ftp.debian.org is down a long with what seems to be a few others.
11:31eigood it's been on mirrors for a long time
11:31* murb thanks eigood for making nice xen packages.
11:31@Sir_Ahzz better ones than mine ever were, that's for certain. 8-P
11:31smcavoy eigood: great, thanks.
11:31murb what is the recommend why of building kernels? make linux-$VERSION-patch and the make-kpkg -arch xen after applying it?
11:32eigood smcavoy: ahzz: I never looked at yours, so wouldn't know
11:32@Sir_Ahzz eigood, trust me, your's are much cleaner.
11:32eigood fakeroot make-kpkg kernel-image --arch xen after applying the patch manually, or
11:32@Sir_Ahzz though I still disagree with the usr/lib/xen placing of the domu stuff. 8-P
11:32eigood fakeroot make-kpkg kernel-image --arch xen --added-patches xen
11:32eigood Sir_Ahzz: my packages do'nt do that
11:32@Sir_Ahzz one of these days i'll alter xlb to use your stuff. :)
11:33@Sir_Ahzz oh? you switched it?
11:33@Sir_Ahzz hadn't puled your's yet to see.
11:33eigood the 2.0 packages don't build any kernels
11:33@Sir_Ahzz ahhh.
11:33@Sir_Ahzz then you may want to have xlb from me at some point.
11:33@Sir_Ahzz attempted to make it a bit easier to manage various domu kernels.
11:33eigood didn't want to maintain configs/initrds, plus didn't want to increase the load on the security team
11:33* murb reads up on the added-patches stuff.
11:33@Sir_Ahzz *nod*
11:33cfreak how can i pass eth0 directly to a xen domain?
11:33eigood murb: I've never used it myself
11:34@Sir_Ahzz next month i'll have time to play with xen once more in that reguard.
11:34eigood smcavoy: only one of ftp.debian.org machines are down
11:34eigood as in doesn't ping
11:34eigood the other requires a local admin with clue
11:34@Sir_Ahzz anyways, must run for now...
11:34@Sir_Ahzz laters. :)
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11:35eigood gluck is offline(runs people.d.o); saens is offline(one of ftp.d.o), newsamosa pings but isn't active
11:35* eigood senses the pending debian release
11:36murb cfreak: first you have to tell xen to hide the PCIID of the device from dom0
11:37cfreak then i wouldn't have any network on dom0, i only want that my domain takes the interface/ the ip
11:45murb cfreak: so you just want your domain to appear to come from the ip of eth0?
11:45cfreak yes
11:46murb so give the domain an rfc1918 address and natting it in domain0 would be sufficent?
11:46cfreak my problem is i only have one external ip
11:47knewt yay, hoary has gone gold
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11:49murb knewt: are you going to the party this evening?
11:51knewt murb: party?
11:54dtrumb www.arthurdevany.comwww.arthurdevany.com
11:54dtrumb oops, that wasn't suppose to happen.
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12:00eigood crf: use nat
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12:13smcavoy Is there a kernel included with the debian xen package found in experimental?
12:14eigood no
12:16smcavoy eigood: thanks, just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing it. no problems applying the patch to 2.6.8?
12:16murb eigood: know of a sensible way of stopping new libc packages recreating /lib/tls/ ?
12:16eigood murb: no. :(
12:17eigood was thinking of patching dpkg so that you could divert directories
12:17eigood (I'm a dpkg developer too)
12:17eigood dpkg-divert itself allows it, but the dpkg binary doesn't handle it
12:18murb eigood: I know, i added a divert and watched it not work :(
12:20* knewt lived with getting complaints during upgrades and symlinked /lib/tls to /dev/null
12:29cfreak has anybody time to explain me how to get a lan-connection between dom0 and domain1 ? i don't get it
12:31murb cfreak: you've got the domain booted etc?
12:31cfreak yes
12:32murb ok what IP address have you given it?
12:32murb and do you have a xen-br0 in dom0?
12:33cfreak ip 192.168.1.4
12:33cfreak xen-br0 is up and has my inet addr. (81.169..)
12:34murb ok do ip addr add 192.168.1.1/24 brd + dev xen-br0 # in domain0 assuming 1.1 isn't already used.
12:34murb then you might be able to ping 192.168.1.4
12:36murb after that do somthing like iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -o eth0 -s 192.168.1.0/24 --j SNAT --to-source 81.169... turn on routing in domain0... add default route via 1.1 in dom1
12:40cfreak thank you!
12:41murb you've got it working?
12:41cfreak jup
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13:02soffi wassup matta
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13:19matta-lt sup
13:21soffi well rested? :)
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13:51matta-lt soffi: you know me? :)
13:52soffi ushell# customer and forum lurker
13:53matta-lt ahh... ok :)
13:53matta-lt then yes, am finally well rested :)
13:53soffi thought the odds of someone else named matt joining #xen were a trillion to one
13:53matta-lt 3 hours of sleep over 48 hours is not fun
13:53soffi hehe I guess not
13:54matta-lt you were not affected were you?
13:54soffi the IT industry should get amfetamin legalized
13:54soffi I think.. at least my server stopped responding, so I just rebooted it.. I'm on vm3 I think
13:55matta-lt lol... i don't know, towards the end I was so deprived of sleep I think I was doing more harm than good
13:55soffi hehe yeah that's a bad approach.. sore-eyes over computer problems... never good
13:56soffi I often wake up in the morning and take a look at some scripts I wrote the night before.. and laugh my ass off, then rewrite them in 2mins :)
13:56matta-lt well one of my employees stepped up and learned a lot about our xen setup now... so now I have a solid backup :)
13:56soffi hehe cool
13:57matta-lt yeah, on the one server... was a new setup
13:57matta-lt well, needed to copy array from the server that went on a blitz
13:58soffi I'm gonna lose some sleep tonight... gonna figure out iscsi on xenU
13:58soffi and btw I hate arrays
13:58matta-lt by the end I was missing stupid stuff I had fixed multiple times before (ie. needing to manually create /dev/console and /dev/null so init starts before udev)
13:58soffi hehe well amfetamin then ;)
13:59matta-lt lol... if only
13:59soffi I don't like hardware arrays and I don't like software raid... but s/w raid is better when you lose the underlying machine and ata/scsi controllers
13:59matta-lt well, this worked out
13:59soffi which is good :)
14:00matta-lt i don't know what happenned to the one server... DC is remote, but I really have to think if they dropped it or something
14:00murb soffi: ack software raid being better for recovery.
14:00matta-lt on the dom0 /etc was a link to libcap.so
14:00matta-lt half of everything in /sbin and /bin wasn't executable
14:00soffi I'm drooling over iscsi/nfs replicated boxes right now..
14:00soffi damn
14:00matta-lt and when it did it was like executing a text file
14:00matta-lt although all the LVM data was intact...
14:00soffi maybe the techs there had too much amfetamin
14:01matta-lt so they just took the drives and controller and threw it in a newly built server
14:01matta-lt so I could mount, copy as needed
14:01soffi my worst memories are from restores
14:01soffi they *never* go as planned
14:01matta-lt was simple enough to setup a secure rsa connection between that and the new server and perform mount, rsync, umount...
14:02matta-lt but the little annoyances were what did it
14:02soffi cool
14:03soffi you should colocate in my serverroom
14:03matta-lt in iceland? :)
14:03soffi hehe yup
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14:03soffi only a 6 hour flight + 2 hour drive if you have to get physical access
14:03matta-lt lol
14:03soffi ;)
14:04matta-lt we have a full avocent remote reboot / serial console setup
14:04matta-lt but even that seems to not be good enough once you get so many servers
14:04soffi no.. fingers and eyes always seem to be better
14:05matta-lt and little things like on the one server, fedora saw the e1000 nic as eth0 and the 2 tigon3's as eth1/2
14:05matta-lt but when booting the xen kernel
14:05matta-lt it swapped...
14:05soffi ugh
14:05matta-lt since the xen kernel doesn't go by modprobe.conf
14:05murb matta-lt: ifrename ++
14:05matta-lt murb: yeah
14:05matta-lt everything that could have gone wrong definitely did :)
14:05soffi I'm gonna test a netbsd setup this weekend
14:06soffi the only grudge I have against Xen is that it is primarily linux based :)
14:06matta-lt i'm still deciding how to handle *bsd with our feature set
14:06murb soffi: there is domain0 support in netbsd yet?
14:07soffi murb: I think so.. saw some docs on it
14:07matta-lt ufs will run from a LVM volume of course, but there is no way to resize the fs, etc from the linux host
14:07murb soffi: well there was support in 1.2 i think, are you sure there is support for 2.0?
14:07matta-lt i'm thinking I need to wait until one of the BSD's has full dom0 support and not try to run linux and bsd vm's on the same hosts
14:07soffi murb: have no idea.. just peeked at the doc... It's in my bookmarks at home
14:08soffi matta-lt: yeah I agree.. but I would trust *bsd hosts to run Linux guests anytime ;)
14:08soffi when dom0 works on FreeBSD.. I'm a happy puppy
14:09murb soffi: whatever OS you run in domain0 you are still at the mercy of the hardware :(
14:09matta-lt yeah, i'm hoping it's freebsd also... i'm still wondering what to use as a backing store... vn will have the same limits as loop, wonder if geom can do volume management
14:10matta-lt oh well, still a long time I think before a bsd runs as dom0 AND is proven stable..
14:10soffi murb: IBM :)
14:10soffi that was easy
14:10soffi and then FreeBSD would need iscsi support
14:10soffi I loooove iscsi
14:12matta-lt that'll be the other problem with bsd, the linux product is still evolving... next step is to build a storage server, 12 disks or so in RAID-10.... then we can use xen's migrate function
14:13soffi mmmm migrate
14:13soffi matta-lt: but what if *that* storageserver fails ? :)
14:13matta-lt drdb + heartbeat could be an option
14:13matta-lt sounds expensive
14:13matta-lt hence why we do things how we do now :)
14:13soffi http://www.raidzone.com/Products___Solutions/GangStor_Overview/Gangstor_Groups_2U/gangstor_groups_2u.html
14:14soffi around 30k for 1,5tb
14:14soffi or TB if you want that
14:14murb soffi: euro, dollar, sterling?
14:14soffi pesos
14:15soffi no dollars
14:15matta-lt you should be able to setup a similar solution using drdb and heartbeat
14:15soffi I have their pricelist somewhere
14:15soffi drbd and heartbeat sounds like it... but also sounds like the most complex thing ever
14:16matta-lt i've set it up before on a smaller scale
14:17matta-lt for what I want to do i'd need an external chassis for the drives
14:17matta-lt use multiple controllers on different PCI buses
14:17soffi ahh
14:17matta-lt then possibly linux software raid to combine the physical raid volumes
14:18matta-lt and then drdb that (drdb is disk block mirroring over the network)
14:18matta-lt still sounding expensive :)
14:18soffi sounds even complex for ascii art
14:21soffi looks pretty cool aye?
14:23matta-lt yeah
14:23matta-lt i'd bet a good sum of money they are using bsd or linux
14:24matta-lt but wrapped into a nice, supported package
14:24* eigood takes the good sum of money and spends it on strippers
14:24soffi well probably not Windows 2003 Storage Edition
14:24soffi eigood: right on!
14:28soffi welll... time for dinner
14:29soffi godspeed dudes
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14:45--- User: *** Rygel is now known as _Rygel
14:45_Rygel Hi there
14:46_Rygel Does anyone here run xen regularly? Is it as stable as UML, yet?
14:49@cw uml is stable? :)
14:49@cw xen is fairly stable for some people, try it out... if it breaks please report what broke :)
14:50murb _Rygel: when i migrated my first machine to Xen i had it so i could run my instances under UML or as Xen instances.
14:51murb as long as you are not using any weird CoW disk formats you should be able to test relativly easily.
14:58_Rygel uml is quite stable, we're using it for 2,5 years without major problems now on heavy loads and on a broad variety of hardware. If xen is as stable i'ld be lucky, uml's overhead is a b**** :)
14:59_Rygel Thanks a lot, though. Sleep well depending on your timezones or have fun, I'll take a nap. *byebye*
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18:17cfreak gn8
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---Logclosed Sat Apr 09 00:00:24 2005