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#xen IRC Logs for 2005-04-11

---Logopened Mon Apr 11 00:00:38 2005
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03:17mael hi
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04:21soffi morning
04:22mael hi soffi
04:22soffi whatsup
04:28mael pretty tired :)
04:28soffi hehe
06:26@riel owwww, not fair!
06:26@riel xen broke _again_ in the rawhide kernel
06:26@riel with the rebase to -rc2
06:26@riel and execshield updates
06:27@riel that'll probably take me half of the day to fix up
06:30mael lo riel :)
06:30@riel 'morning
06:32mael riel: did you followed design discussions from xen 1.2 to xen 2?
06:33@riel nope, back then I was still looking at the CKRM design ;)
06:33mael I wonder how the front-end/back-end/native device drivers model emerged
06:34mael hehe you swiched after OLSR '04?
06:35@riel yeah, after OLS
06:35@riel (not sure where the R comes from)
06:35mael mmh from my mind probably :)
07:00soffi muhaha
07:00* soffi is officially a p2p fascist
07:02mael soffi: well, uh, you're a network & system engineer, no?
07:02soffi yup
07:03mael yeah so you *are* a fascist
07:03soffi shuold change my job description to pure fascist
07:03soffi mael: hehe exactly
07:03mael in your job at least, no matter what your real political opinions are
07:03* mael is a network & system engineer too :)
07:18mael hehe there's already the "Xen Summit 3.0" presentation on the website
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07:19mael ...for year 3005 :)
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07:51@riel soffi: there's nothing like clamping down p2p traffic to 30kbit/s for 10 minutes every 15 minutes ;)
07:51mael riel: hehe
07:51@riel or instructing the firewall to drop every second p2p packet
07:51@Sir_Ahzz moooo
07:51@riel tcp congestion control will do the rest
07:52mael mmh, and I thought sysadmin where the worst :)
07:52@riel (and it's subtle enough that users will never figure out)
07:52mael -h
07:53@Sir_Ahzz netadmins can be far worse.
07:53@Sir_Ahzz especially if they snoop a link, and terminate it 5 bytes from being complete on a non-restartable download.
07:53* Sir_Ahzz misses 14.4k modem banks.
07:54mael :)
07:54mael I don't :)
07:54@riel mael: that's because you were on the other side
07:54@Sir_Ahzz oh I don't miss the lack of speed.
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07:54@Sir_Ahzz just the hundreds of pretty flashing lights in a rack.
07:55mael riel: uh no, this is because the rack stuff, the pile of cables going to the telephone sockets on the wall
07:55mael and also the f*g shiva gear
07:56soffi hehe
07:56--- User: *** riel is now known as surriel
07:56soffi one hour with the shaper on and no phonecalls! :)
07:56@surriel ok, time to go to the office ;)
07:56@Sir_Ahzz mael, didn't you have wire guides?
07:57@Sir_Ahzz or tie straps at the minimal.
07:57mael uh no, I wasn't the guy responsible for the mess in the first place
07:57mael I cleaned it up a bit but it took ages
07:57@Sir_Ahzz heh
07:58mael the usual "legacy stuff" problem
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07:58mael sometimes system and network administration is very close to archaeology
07:59@Sir_Ahzz *chuckle*
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08:00* Sir_Ahzz wonders if his 4-way ppro boxes are considered legacy. 3' tall rack sized boxes from IBM.
08:00@Sir_Ahzz anyone want them?
08:01@Sir_Ahzz I have 3 that I can't use linux on. ;-P
08:01mael mmh why not?
08:02mael I mean why can't you use linux on them?
08:02@Sir_Ahzz never could get the APICs to initialize properly.
08:02mael ok
08:02@Sir_Ahzz been trying since 2.3.99
08:02@Sir_Ahzz every kernel version up to 2.6.3
08:03@Sir_Ahzz sides, they are monstrous in size. nowhere to put them cept for the shed. 8-P
08:04@Sir_Ahzz came with 3 fiber-chan cards, and 3 adaptec f/w scsi-III raid cards.
08:04@Sir_Ahzz one had a 4-port 10Mbps network card.
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09:33sunny I have this odd problem of dom0_mem= giving me constant greif
09:33sunny err, grief
09:33unriel don't use it, then ;)
09:33unriel if you're on -unstable
09:34sunny but if I don't use it, xend seems to go psycho
09:35sunny for now I'm using less ram than my system actually has
09:35sunny for I seem to get odd conflicting reports of how much RAM my system has
09:36--- User: *** unriel is now known as riel
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09:45sunny so what is the best way to see what to specify with dom0_mem= ?
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10:46* eigood is making a debian package of iet
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11:02matta-lt aliguori: VM tools are at almost the same functionality as xend right now, correct?
11:02mael hey aliguori
11:02matta-lt it's just bugfixes/testing.. ?
11:03aliguori matta-lt: yeah, migration/save/restore is missing but someone is working on that as we speak
11:03mael aliguori: users were setting a trap for you :)
11:03aliguori mael: howdy
11:03aliguori hehe
11:03aliguori a trap? uh oh
11:03* mael has a question also :)
11:04matta-lt aliguori: heh, well i personally don't use that (yet) anyway
11:04matta-lt vm-tools intrigue me....
11:04mael you talked about a "uclibc howto as soon as the wiki is up"
11:04aliguori ahhh
11:04mael well I inform you that the wiki it up :)
11:04aliguori i was wondering how long it would take for someone to pick up on that :-)
11:04matta-lt mainly because all of my problems with xen seem to revolve around xend :)
11:04mael and I was not able to find the howto :))
11:04mael krkrkr
11:04mael a trap! I told you :)
11:05aliguori mael: i'll put something up this afternoon :-)
11:05mael ok that's nice :)
11:06mael it's just that you libxen/vm-tools work is not so far from completion and I think it is about time for the uclibc stuff :)
11:06aliguori uclibc is really easy to get going
11:06aliguori i just have to download everything and run through it so i can document the steps :-)
11:06aliguori so it's just been an issue of time, but i do have some free time this afternoon
11:07matta-lt yayayayay death to xend/python!
11:07aliguori one of my original goals with vm-tools was a uclibc-based < 4MB dom0
11:07mael ok that's brilliant!
11:07mael yeah I know
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11:07mael well in fact I just discovered today to be fair :)
11:07aliguori hehe
11:08mael as soon as I heard about the c rewrite of xend and xm, I thought about a as-small-as-possible-dom0-image
11:08aliguori well, what i would like is a dom0 that fits within a ramdisk..
11:08mael but as for many stuff in life, I was not the first one :)
11:08matta-lt I only run mine with 128MB ... including full http and mysql
11:09aliguori brb, lunch time
11:09mael yeah the 16MB target is a cool one
11:09mael (for dom0 I mean)
11:10mael anyway, "bon appetit" :)
11:10mael hi jeroney btw
11:12* mael is happy with the vmtools link on aliguori webpage also :)
11:12mael thx lads
11:16eigood does VM tools work with 2.0?
11:17mael you mean xen 2.0?
11:17eigood aliguori: what about ssh?
11:17eigood what other 2.0 would I mean?
11:17matta-lt no
11:17matta-lt only unstable...
11:17eigood any reason why it couldn't be made to work?
11:17matta-lt hypervisor calls have changed?
11:18matta-lt i'm sure it's entirely possible
11:18eigood someone add the vm tools link to the topic please
11:19matta-lt i would love that
11:19matta-lt -unstable is not that bad if you track i to know when to use it
11:21mael Sir_Ahzz: "vm-tools :" for the topic :)
11:22eigood why does this channel have topiclock set?
11:22mael "because" :)
11:22eigood that's not a reason
11:23mael hehe that's my 4 years old girl answears also :)
11:23mael +what
11:24eigood your 4 year old swears?
11:24eigood you're a bad parent.
11:25mael hehe
11:26eigood Sir_Ahzz: in case you don't see the earlier stuff, remove topiclock from this channel
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12:18--- Channel: Sir_Ahzz changed the topic of #xen to: Xen Homepage-> || Xen Wiki -> || vm-tools :
12:19--- Channel: mode/#xen [-t] by Sir_Ahzz
12:19--- Channel: mode/#xen [+t] by ChanServ
12:19@Sir_Ahzz hmm, have to check with chanserv on how.
12:20@Sir_Ahzz set
12:20--- Channel: mode/#xen [-t] by Sir_Ahzz
12:20--- Channel: mode/#xen [+t] by ChanServ
12:21--- Channel: mode/#xen [-t] by Sir_Ahzz
12:21@Sir_Ahzz there we go. :)
12:24eigood good boy
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12:46riel gah
12:46riel I am so sick of xen not being upstream
12:46riel every other week things change so much upstream that the xen patches get disabled in fedora, and I spend a day or two fixing it up again
12:48@cw riel: xen or xen-linux?
12:49@cw riel: also, if you are using xen-linux trailng the (now defunct) BK head do you have 'fixup' patches anywhere?
12:49riel xen-linux
12:50riel fixup patches up to last week in fedora rawhide
12:50@cw riel: are they rh specific?
12:51riel not the ones in linux-2.6.9-xen-compile.patch
12:51riel the rh specific ones are split out, eg linux-2.6.8-execshield-xen.patch
12:53matta i've been using the FC4 RPM's on a production host for about 5 days now
12:53matta so far so good
12:54riel matta: yeah, the FC4t2 RPMs are good
12:54matta kernel-xen0-2.6.11-1.1226_FC4
12:55riel sometimes stuff breaks, but I try to get it in a good shape before a test release
12:55matta that was due to xend acting up on a host
12:55riel yeah, 1226 is a good kernel
12:55matta (as in, refusing to start)
12:55matta someone trying to upgrade the host to FC4
12:55matta and then xend/xen _totally_ not liking FC4
12:56matta notably due to new gcc/glibc/python
12:57riel so you didn't use the xen RPM from FC4 ?
12:58matta not at first
12:58matta it is using the xen RPM now
12:58matta xen-2-20050403
12:58riel yeah, the xend/xen interface seems to have changed about 3-4 weeks ago
12:59matta but custom xenU kernels
12:59matta as I was stating before, i'll be happy when xend is gone :)
12:59matta seems to be the source of (most) all my problems
12:59@cw riel: so you know if there is an easy way to get details/stats on the grant-tables for a given domain?
13:00riel cw: dunno
13:01matta riel: i know this is probably not your dept... but the e2fsprogs included with fc3/4 has a patch to mke2fs that makes other distros not able to boot off of a FS made with it
13:01matta i've been maintaining my own e2fsprogs package on my servers... but if Fedora/RedHat is serious about virtualisation they should make sure to at least try to play nice :)
13:01riel matta: oh dear, better file a bug on that
13:02riel please cc: me on that bug, so I can help push it along
13:02matta i was planning on it, I wanted to figure out which patch it is that does it first
13:03riel just file it, chances are the e2fsprogs package maintainer knows ;)
13:05eigood matta: just install debian; then, you'll never need to switch.
13:05* eigood hides
13:05matta lol
13:05matta i'm a redhat/fedora guy
13:06riel yeah, run xen 1.2 on debian ;)
13:06matta i've administered debian quite a bit, but RPM, init scripts, etc of redhat is what I know the best
13:06eigood riel: 2.0 is in experimental
13:06eigood only reason it's not in unstable is because I don't handle upgrades from 1.2
13:06matta if I wanted gcc 2.95 i'd run debian
13:06matta ubuntu looks good though :)
13:06riel eigood: that is so wrong
13:06eigood matta: has redhat released a *stable* version with xen?
13:07riel eigood: 2.0 is stable, 3.0 is experimental
13:07eigood riel: no, it's not. debian is about upgrading.
13:07eigood riel: debian experimental
13:07riel from here it looks like a downgrade ;)
13:07eigood just because something is in debian's experimental doesn't mean the code is experimental
13:08eigood and yes, I have had a report of an upgrade from 1.2 to 2.0 breaking something
13:08eigood there was a stale deb/file that caused the 2.0 stuff to not work
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14:29@Sir_Ahzz riel, ran xen 1.2 on debian. ;) still smoother than redhat has ever been for me.
14:29@Sir_Ahzz *ducks and runs like mad!*
14:35mikegrb Sir_Ahzz: :D
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14:57@Sir_Ahzz how was xencon mike?
14:58mikegrb Sir_Ahzz: I was not there :/
14:58@Sir_Ahzz oh
14:58@Sir_Ahzz my mistake. :)
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15:04riel you didn't miss all that much
15:04riel the technical stuff was fun, and meeting each other was fun, but there weren't many ground-breaking activities
15:05riel possibly the most useful was working out a plan on how to get xen-linux merged upstream, and deciding on who got to do what part of the work
15:11matta riel: have you/redhat completely abandoned vserver?
15:12eigood Sir_Ahzz: I'm making debs of ietd, btw
15:12riel matta: vserver isn't really compatible with selinux
15:12riel matta: since the selinux subsystem isn't easily virtualisable
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15:15@Sir_Ahzz eigood, hmmm?
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15:20cfreak n8
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15:21eigood Sir_Ahzz:
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15:53eigood hmm, xen on a 32-way
16:01matta yeah
16:01matta interesting... another big iron company announcing it's "support" of xen
16:08riel matta: which company ?
16:09jeroney riel: Unisys
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16:10riel neat
16:10riel do you have a URL ? ;)
16:10riel oh, I see - on the list
16:10riel not a press release ;)
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17:47xai Im having problems with system reboots. Seems like when the network gets activated that it starts to have problems.
17:47xai I can't seem to get any log information from /var/log/messages.. nothing there.
17:48xai I did have a watchdog timer on in the bios but I have turned that off..
17:49xai I have no idea why that would have been on anyway.
17:49@cw xai: the system is rebooting? xen isn't doing it?
17:50xai Not that I know of..
17:51xai BTW, is there a list of kernel options and description of why they need to be on for Xen0 kernels? I see that pre-emptible kernel was on.
17:53@surriel you could use a serial console to get info from the system
17:53@surriel the dom0 kernel and xen will usually print out messages on such a spontaneous reboot
17:55@cw xen can be told not to reboot on dom0 crash too
17:55@cw noreboot i think, let me grep
17:56@cw xai: yeah, pass noreboot to xen and see if when it dies you are left with something
17:56@cw if it's rebooting still, it might be a triple fault :(
17:59niv xai: preemptible is not required for xen, afaik
18:03@surriel preemptible might well interfere
18:03* surriel has preemptible off
18:03@surriel (I don't see how it would be useful with xen anyway)
18:04niv Yep, would be safer to turn it off...
18:08@cw i don't see how kernel preemption should be a problem other than probably being less well tested
18:08@cw it might be that it does barf and takes dom0 down though
18:09eigood good
18:09eigood the debs for iscsitarget(ietd) are mostly done
18:09soffi mmmmm iscsi target
18:09eigood I wish I didn't have to do work stuff
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18:52niv anyone else running into build breakage?
18:56@cw niv: breakage where?
19:00xai Sorry, i had to go get my son. I'll turn it off. I also have several encryption options on..
19:00xai I don't know how those got into my kernel, but if i dont need it I'll off it.
19:01niv make[2]: Entering directory `/usr/src/xen-unstable/tools/xentrace'
19:01niv gcc -m32 -march=i686 -Wall -Werror -O3 -I ../../tools/python/xen/lowlevel/xc -I . ./../tools/libxc -I ../../tools/libxutil -o xentrace xentrace.c -L../../tools/libx c -L../../tools/libxutil -lxc -lxutil
19:01niv In file included from ../../tools/libxc/xen/trace.h:11,
19:01niv from xentrace.c:25:
19:01niv /usr/include/asm/atomic.h:40:2: #warning Using kernel header in userland program. BAD!
19:01niv looking into it
19:01@cw niv: gentoo?
19:01niv not seeing any error, this shouldn't be fatal, but it is
19:01niv FC3
19:01xai After turning off the nic, and watchdog in the bios, its been up for over an hour now.
19:02niv I see a patch to fix this 9 hours ago in BK, but can't use BK to download current src at the mo
19:02niv but previous code was this way for a while..strange..
19:02@cw niv: i don't see that warning here after a full build... might wanna check to see where xen is getting it's headers from
19:02@cw niv: for FC3 can't you just use surriel's rpms?
19:03niv I was picking up later source, since I needed to apply my own patches..
19:03niv hmm, all I did was untar the src tarball and do make
19:16xai I have some really wierd kernel options on in this kernel: /dev/cpu/*/cpuid - CPU information support, /proc/kcore, encryption..
19:18xai I think the BIOS watchdog was giving me those reboots, but Im still not sure yet.
19:19xai Is /proc/kcore support needed by Xen0?
19:19@cw no
19:21xai Thanks.. should I be looking at the stock configs for this info?
19:25xai I see in the stock configuration files many of these things are on..
19:29@cw /proc/kcore won't hurt, some things use it --- but it's not needed
19:45xai What about CPUID support?
19:45xai I see it on in all config files .
19:50xai Would anyone have a bare-bones 2.6.10-xen0 config file I could look at?
19:51@cw xai: i have one, im not sure if it's bare-bones though and it's specific to my hw and fs so you would need to frob that
19:52@cw actually, i guess i nuked it
19:52xai ;(
19:52@cw what's wrong with the ones supplied?
19:52xai Well, next time you run accross one, shout at me.
19:53xai I'm glad to see surriel is a permanent fixture here.
19:54@cw xai: dist/install/boot/config-2.6.11-xen0 is close, just tweak that for you CPU and hardware
19:59xai I know this is somewhere in the faq, but i can't find it: how can I (if even possible) merge my version of xen-2.0 with a newer version. ?
20:00@cw what do you mean?
20:01@cw you have 2.0 install and want 2.0.5?
20:01xai yea.. just unpack?
20:01xai and move .configs?
20:01@cw i personally remove the old install first, but i guess dropping it over the top should work
20:02@cw the .configs are used for building the kernels, they are not part of the install
20:04xai sure.. Ok, for some reaon (im dense today) i thought there was some sort of merging.
20:06@cw you can use your old .configs for building the kernel(s) if you like, that should be fine
20:06@cw and if they work, it's not a bad idea
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20:18xai for some reason, i thought 2.0.5 would have 2.6.11 instead of 2.6.10..
20:18@cw use xeno-unstable for 2.6.11
20:18@cw or surriel rpms
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20:20xai ok.. I'll be patient and stick with 2.0.5
20:22MarkWilliamso| -testing (i.e. will be the 2.0.6 release) contains 2.6.11 support I think
20:23MarkWilliamso| xai: so if you want 2.6.11 but don't want to use -unstable, that would be the best option
20:23MarkWilliamso| I imagine 2.0.6 will get released anyhow in the not too distant future
20:25xai I'm in no rush, just got the curiosties.
20:26MarkWilliamso| :-)
20:27MarkWilliamso| it's just 2.6.11 wasn't release early enough for 2.0.5
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20:34@cw MarkWilliamson: :)
20:34@cw MarkWilliamson: i assume 2.0.5 -> 2.0.6 is pretty small anyhow?
20:34MarkWilliamso| :-)
20:34MarkWilliamso| I'm not sure actually, didn't the block performance fixes go in after 2.0.5?
20:35@cw yes
20:35@cw but those didn't look large to me (well, the stuff on the list)
20:35MarkWilliamso| The actual diffs will probably still be quite small but significant :-)
20:36MarkWilliamso| And there's probably various sparse tree fixes for changing kernel APIs.
20:36@cw MarkWilliamson: do you guys test/use 2.4.x or 2.6.x as dom0 mostly?
20:36@cw MarkWilliamson: actually, the AGP stuff will be in there too
20:37MarkWilliamso| cw: I think 2.6 is almost exclusively used for dom0 testing
20:37MarkWilliamso| cw: ^ ah, ok.
20:37@cw MarkWilliamson: there is also a gs-related fix somewhere maybe?
20:38--- Channel: mode/#xen [+o MarkWilliamson] by cw
20:38--- User: *** cw is now known as anticw
20:38@MarkWilliamso| cw: I don't remember but it's possible
21:25xai Well I'm not getting any spontaneous reboots now.. good for now.. bad then.
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---Logclosed Tue Apr 12 00:00:16 2005