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#xen IRC Logs for 2005-04-29

---Logopened Fri Apr 29 00:00:27 2005
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01:51strafbomber hello
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04:06strafbomber is it possible to adjust how much cpu power a domain can use?
04:21strafbomber :-)
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06:54mael riel: ping?
06:55riel pong
06:55mael :)
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06:55mael sorry to bother as it not really a xen-related question, but it is a redhat one
06:56mael I'm about to say nasty things on behalf on RH, so I think I must ask you before :)
06:56mael how may I get packages for old redhat systems?
06:56riel try the Fedora Legacy project
06:56mael I need to install ntp on a redhat 8 and a redhat 9 server
06:57soffi_ might try openntp.org
06:57mael unfortunately, they are "qualified" environnment, otherwise I would have installed a debian ;)
06:57soffi_ openntpd.org
06:57mael so I must stick to RH8 and RH9
06:57riel soffi_: get real, openntpd doesn't quite work right yet with linux
06:57soffi_ \xF3
06:57soffi_ sorry.. and if I recall.. I've only used it on FreeBSD ;)
06:57Tv riel: can you point me to something discussing the brokenness?
06:58soffi_ didn't know of any of it's shortcomings
06:58riel Tv: all I have is a discussion with one of the authors over a beer at last year's SUCON
06:58mael hehe
06:58riel Tv: I don't remember all the details though
06:58* Tv focuses the brain rays on riel
06:58mael so it is a pretty sure information :)
07:00mael mmmh
07:00mael s/pretty sure/trustful/?
07:00riel (oh, and it was some Linux strangeness - not something wrong with openntpd)
07:01* mael is trying to improve his english (and this is a huge task)
07:01Tv linux clock sync is "different", IIRC
07:01riel Tv: indeed it is
07:01Tv but openntp seems to work nicely in the 1 second accuracy class.
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07:13mael riel: Thanks very much anyway, this URL is very useful
07:13* mael is bookmarking the stuff
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09:16xai Anyone know if the stock XenU configuration will support a udev system?
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09:34xai I just booted my mini Centos4 (rhel4) in XenU and confirmed it works.. Anyone on the Xen site interested in putting it up on the ftp site?
09:36xai Its only 60MB....
09:37xai All the docs and most of the locales have been hand pruned.
09:38mael soffi_: I think this is for you man :)
09:41xai It only took me 2 days too. :)
09:41mael xai: soffi_ is the guy owning http://www.kvadratrot.net/~xen/
09:41xai Yum is preconfigured and confirmed to work.
09:42mael he does the excellent work of collecting domU images for the community
09:42mael so you should get in touch with him
09:42xai good deal..
09:44xai soffi_: just let me know how you want me to upload it.
09:45xai soffi_: i also have a stripped version of Sarge as well..
09:47--- ---> hollis [~hollis@pixpat.austin.ibm.com] has joined #xen
09:47xai I see his are images.. mine are tbz2's.. no biggie.
09:47xai he has tarballs too.. i take that back..
09:48mael I think using tarball is better
09:49mael I also did the basic sarge tarball
09:50mael it is only 30 something Mo but the tarball on soffi_ websites contain a tgz AND a tar.bz2 version
09:51soffi_ re:
09:51soffi_ Yeah, I'm thinking about scubbing the images
09:51mael :)
09:51mael I know you've pretty busy lately :)
09:52mael +been
09:52soffi_ better to put up a howto on making a sizeX loop image and untarring the tarballs -> image
09:52mael yep
09:53* mael still hope he'll get soffi_'s feeling on the draft he wrote a few weeks ago :)
09:53soffi_ gheheh
09:53soffi_ I PROMISE I'll read it through this weekend
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09:53soffi_ xai: can you scp/sftp the images ?
09:54mael I can write it in LaTeX if OOo format is a problem, you know :)
09:54soffi_ ghehe no prob
10:00xai LaTeX rocks man.. what do you mean mael?
10:05mael nothing
10:05mael I sent a OOo document in order to get modifications traceability
10:05mael but diff on .tex may be enough :)
10:05xai i'm just ribbing ya.
10:11xai soffi_: what document are you guys speaking of?
10:11mael soffi_: ok, I have a Q'n'D tex version if you want
10:12mael so you won't have to compile OOo to be able to read the stuff :)
10:12soffi_ dude don't worry I've already set up OpenOffice
10:12soffi_ and NeoOffice
10:12mael oh
10:12mael hehe you got macosx :)
10:12soffi_ yup
10:12soffi_ and my Tiger should be here by monday
10:13mael roaaaar
10:13mikegrb mmm osx
10:13mikegrb soffi_: new camino!
10:13soffi_ hehe
10:13soffi_ I thought Safari was Konqueror based
10:14mael well actually the only reasons why I keep macosx on my powerbook is to dim the light and use 802.11g
10:14--- <<-- plars [~plars@pixpat.austin.ibm.com] has quit (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
10:14mael oh, and for the suspend feature
10:14soffi_ you are so lying
10:14soffi_ you love Expos\xE9 and all the little gismos
10:14mael well no, my gnome desktop just look like osX :)
10:15* mael use ubuntu hoary ppc on his PB
10:15mikegrb mmm exposé
10:16soffi_ anyone getting exposje to work with Xen ?
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10:18soffi_ matta-lt: troubles over? :) a relaxed weekend in sight ? :P
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10:19matta-lt soffi_: hrm... doubtful
10:19matta-lt soffi_: lession learned and shared with all, don't use FC4 :)
10:19soffi_ hehe
10:20soffi_ didn't -test tell you anything ? :)
10:20hollis :)
10:20matta-lt the test versions always worked fairly well for me in the past
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10:20matta-lt FC4 is quite drastic in what it changes
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10:20soffi_ I've set up my VM to send me a text message everytime it starts up
10:20matta-lt ie. the change from 2 -> 3 wasalmost minimal
10:21katzj matta-lt: what are you having problems with?
10:21matta-lt katzj: you remember the domain.c
10:21matta-lt BIG at line 144 (or something) that was resolved on the list?
10:21matta-lt BUG
10:22katzj yep
10:22matta-lt our one server randomly started crashing due to that... even though it ran for days on end with it
10:23matta-lt so after testing various configs
10:23matta-lt (ie. copying over xen.gz and kernel from other working servers)
10:23matta-lt still did it
10:24matta-lt so since xen is included with FC4, will be the basis for waht will be in the next R
10:24matta-lt HEL, and Rik stating he stress tested the 1226 kernel for days...
10:24matta-lt I figured what the hell
10:24matta-lt upgraded to fc4, it all worked
10:24matta-lt but it seems there is problems with the FC4 kernel and my hardware... it's standard hardware, dual opt,4gb, hardware raid, e1000 and tg3 nic's
10:25matta-lt tyan board,etc
10:25matta-lt it crashes sometimes every few hours, other times every 2 days
10:25katzj matta-lt: x86_64?
10:25matta-lt so after keir released the patch... I figured to give it a go
10:25riel kernel 1275 with the latest xen rpm _should_ work
10:25matta-lt I copied the xen.gz and kernel from another working host and it booted fine
10:26riel though I admit I've only tried it a little ;)
10:26matta-lt but xend wouldn't start due to python 2.4
10:26matta-lt it just plain doesn't support it
10:27matta-lt tried compiling the 2.0-testing on it, no deals thanks to gcc4
10:27matta-lt even tried applying rik's own patche from the source RPM's
10:27mael hehe a pure murphy situation :)
10:27matta-lt riel: the errors I was showing you the other day... I see them under the stok FC4 kernel also, so it's not related to xen
10:28matta-lt so yeah, for this poor server it's been hell
10:28soffi_ damn this machine must be haunted
10:28matta-lt all my other servers running FC3 + xen-testing all run nice and stable though :)
10:29soffi_ I have a VM with a dutch company and it's at 33 days
10:29soffi_ shit is bound to happen ;)
10:29xai I just created a debian-router version of sarge.. should be about 12MB in .tgz format.
10:29xai I think it has apt.
10:29matta-lt soffi_: nah, it's due to FC4... but it had to be done at the time, keir's patch to fix the problem didn't get released until 2+ weeks after this all went down
10:29xai Make that 21MB..
10:30soffi_ xai: cool
10:31soffi_ now who here told me ATAoverEthernet had shitty performance
10:31matta-lt soffi_: once we get the people on that server migrated i'm sure they'll be happy
10:31soffi_ matta-lt: I hope so, or you'll be having flames all over
10:31soffi_ damn I hate bigmouths :)
10:32matta-lt eh... some are cool and are like "been there, done that"
10:32matta-lt others are a little less rational than that :)
10:32soffi_ hehe
10:32mael soffi_: you tested ATAoverEThernet?
10:32soffi_ yep
10:32mael so?
10:32soffi_ got 30mbit over a 34 mbit microwave link :)
10:33mael mmh
10:33soffi_ have yet to test it over local lan
10:33mael yes :)
10:33soffi_ the only machine I could use for testing was in another town ;)
10:33soffi_ hence the mw-link
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10:33mael this is easier to get reproduceable tests with a lan :)
10:34mael IIRC it was Adam who told about it in the first place
10:34soffi_ I just thought AoE would be cool to try out since the company's boxes are cheap
10:34soffi_ yeah.. my guys are building me a test server as we speak
10:34mael and I think he had around the same speed you get
10:35soffi_ and... AoE has FreeBSD support
10:35mael and what about openiscsi? did you had a look?
10:35soffi_ FreeBSD doesn't support iscsi :/
10:35mael hehe yeah that's true you're a freebsd addict
10:35soffi_ didn't take a look at iscsi
10:35mael k
10:35soffi_ not an addict...
10:35soffi_ preacher
10:36mael I wonder if you can have a box with a load of disks exporting it on the disk level using a iscsi daemon
10:36mael I don't know if they do a daemon though
10:37soffi_ who?
10:37mael the openiscsi guys
10:37soffi_ ahh is it only an initiator ?
10:38mael I have to check that for ages
10:38mael dunno presently
10:39mael mmh it seems so from a quick reading of their website
10:39mael (http://www.open-iscsi.org/)
10:39soffi_ hmm
10:40soffi_ gonna mail the aoe guys and see if they have any clue on howto remoteboot with pxe and aoe
10:40mael they merged recently with the linux-iscsi project
10:41mael soffi_: do you want your root device to be aoe?
10:41mael initrd is probably your friend there
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10:44mael well, time to go here
10:44mael see ya
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12:16matta-lt soffi_: why are you against iscsi again?
12:17matta-lt iscsi seems to be th way to go... all the benefits of FC without the proprietary hardware
12:17matta-lt and gigabit eth hardware is cheap these days
12:31xai For some reason my new debian xenU command line wraps onto itself when it reaches the end of line.. not a showstopper but annoying.
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12:34xai I guess its not getting the resizing from the current xterm. mayb ei need to install xutils
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13:15knewt errors-- # figuring out all the corner cases and coding for them is annoying and time consuming
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13:50hollis sigh... the bizarre GDB behavior I've been chasing is a bug in Xen's snprintf
13:50knewt grrrr. (Unable to handle kernel paging request at virtual address 00100104)--
13:51aliguori hollis: really? isn't it just linux's snprintf?
13:52knewt which sounds like a list problem. grrr.
13:52hollis aliguori: hmm, yes
13:53hollis aliguori: actually, it has been modified
13:54aliguori hollis: what's the bug?
13:54hollis though not too much
13:54hollis it's overwriting the last char of output with null
13:55hollis char buf[16]; snprintf(buf, 16, "%016lx", 1UL);
13:55hollis and the last char is NULL
13:55aliguori oh, is that a bug?
13:56hollis yes
13:57aliguori so you think it should leave it unterminated?
13:57hollis yes
13:57hollis but I couldn't see anything obvious, and have more interesting code to debug
13:57aliguori from the manpage: "Thus, a return value of size or more means that the output was truncated."
13:57hollis yes
13:57aliguori so if it's writing 16 characters, it's truncating
13:58hollis yes
13:58eigood The functions snprintf and vsnprintf do not write more than size bytes (including the trailing '\0'). If the
13:58eigood output was truncated due to this limit then the return value is the number of characters (not including the trailing '\0') which
13:58eigood would have been written to the final string if enough space had been available.
13:58eigood that's from the snprintf(3) manpage
13:58hollis yes
13:58knewt so it's supposed to always write out the \0
13:58hollis how do you figure?
13:59eigood knewt: not nescessarily
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13:59knewt eigood: well, it's what i read from the manpage anyway
13:59eigood \0 is part of the allowed bytes to write. if you hit the max, you can't write the \0
13:59knewt s/read/understand/
13:59aliguori see, i would expect snprintf to always null-terminate.
13:59eigood read the next line
14:00eigood it says if snprintf returns size, then that means it was truncated
14:00eigood which means that the trailing null wasn't written
14:00eigood \0 is part of the written character set, it just isn't part of the returned length
14:00aliguori eigood: look at the description of the size parameter
14:01hollis aliguori: yes...?
14:01aliguori "The function snprintf and vsnprintf do not write more than size bytes (including the trailing '\0').'
14:01knewt [[ If the output was truncated due to this limit then the return value is the number of characters (not including the trailing ’\0’) which would have been written to the final string if enough space had been available. Thus, a return value of size or more means that the output was truncated. ]]
14:01eigood that's what I pasted
14:01hollis yes, so if I tell it the buffer is 16 chars big, it had better not try to put the NULL in the 17th char
14:02eigood aliguori: yes. the chars to be output exquals: "buffer with inserted parameterss" + "\0"
14:02knewt ie, if you specify a size of 16, and it /returns/ 16, then it truncated the string
14:02eigood aliguori: then, you take the first $size bytes from that
14:02aliguori one sec, looking to see what c99 says
14:02eigood hollis: the argument is whether it should write 15 bytes, then the final \0
14:02* riel figured out all the little details to keep in mind when installing FC4test3 as a xen guest
14:03eigood hollis: but then that means it would have to return 15, which is less then size, so truncation didn't occur
14:03aliguori " [#2] The snprintf function is equivalent to fprintf, except
14:03aliguori that the output is written into an array (specified by
14:03aliguori argument s) rather than to a stream. If n is zero, nothing
14:03aliguori is written, and s may be a null pointer. Otherwise, output
14:03aliguori characters beyond the n-1st are discarded rather than being
14:03aliguori written to the array, and a null character is written at the
14:03aliguori end of the characters actually written into the array. If
14:03aliguori copying takes place between objects that overlap, the
14:03aliguori behavior is undefined.
14:03aliguori "
14:03aliguori sorry for the flood
14:03aliguori but that's pretty clear.
14:03hollis yes, that is pretty clear. too bad about that man page...
14:04eigood aliguori: no, it isn't. is the array of chars for the source zero based or one based?>
14:04eigood it's probably 0(like all other c stuff), so a 16 chars gives 0 <= i < 16; with n == 16, n - 1 == 15, so the trailing null wouldn't be written
14:05aliguori no, it says explicitly, a null character is written at the end of the characters actually written into the array
14:05eigood and when you consider the n == 0 case, it doesn't write the trailing null in that case
14:05aliguori of course not, if n == 0 there's no memory :-)
14:05aliguori if you tried to write a null, you'd segv
14:07hollis glibc's snprintf does the same NULL termination thing
14:07hollis char buf[2];
14:07hollis snprintf(buf, 2, "%x", 0xa5);
14:07hollis printf("%x %x\n", buf[0], buf[1]);
14:08knewt eigood: of course not. "do not write more than size bytes (including the trailing ’\0’)"
14:08hollis so... my mistake, but I blame the man page
14:09knewt well, personally i always read the man page to be indicating that a trailing NULL would always be written
14:09aliguori hollis: for what it's worth, i would have done the same thing.. seems like it should work
14:09hollis knewt: but as you can see from this discussion, it is ambiguous
14:10aliguori c in general is not very clear about trailing nulls.. strncpy() is a notorious instance of this
14:13* eigood pets java
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14:19knewt hmm. can anyone remember how to create a postscript file from plain text? in 2-up form
14:19aliguori 2-up form?
14:20knewt 2 pages per page
14:20aliguori enscript -2r -p output.ps input.txt
14:20knewt ah, enscript, ta. been too long
14:46HoraPe knewt: mpage -2
14:50knewt ok, source printed out. time to figure how the double-delete is happening
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15:09--- Channel: services.oftc.net changed the topic of #xen to: Xen Homepage-> http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/Research/SRG/netos/xen/index.html || Xen Wiki -> http://wiki.xensource.com || vm-tools : http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/aliguori/vm-tools/
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15:40Surferdude Anyone know how to change the python directory that Twisted uses?
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15:48dash Surferdude: for the install?
15:53xai its getting hot
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16:18Surferdude dash: yes
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16:23Surferdude You know, it would be nice if the Xen install.sh could resolve the dependencys needed
16:28xai What's a good way to monitor traffic on XenU's ? I gess snmp will give stats for bridged interfaces./?
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16:29riel have snmp monitor the vif* interfaces ?
16:30Surferdude Um... dont think so
16:30Surferdude heres the error i am getting
16:30Surferdude distutils.errors.DistutilsPlatformError: invalid Python installation: unable to open /usr/lib/python2.2/config/Makefile (No such file or directory)
16:31riel Surferdude: use the packages distributions provide ;)
16:31riel Surferdude: that makes things easier
16:31Surferdude Thats the problem... i have RHEL >_>
16:31Surferdude I couldent get my hands on a test box to work with
16:31Surferdude so i got a dedicated server to lease
16:32Surferdude and they put on rhel by default
16:32Surferdude starting to consider putting CentOS on another partition
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16:36riel many ISPs have RHN access included with their RHEL installs
16:36riel so you _do_ have support for the updates
16:37riel you may want to check whether that's the case for your system
16:37riel ummm wait, n/m - confused with a discussion in #rhel ;)
16:37riel sorry
16:37riel which version of RHEL ?
16:38Surferdude 3 i think
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16:39riel mmmm, that's harder
16:39riel with RHEL4 you could just rebuild the xen RPM I made for fedora rawhide
16:41Surferdude Whats the command to see what distro your running?
16:41Surferdude in ssh
16:41riel cat /etc/redhat-release ;)
16:41Surferdude Red Hat Enterprise Linux ES release 3 (Taroon)
16:42matta-lt bah I hate bugzillas that require reg :(
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17:02* knewt decides this might be a wise time to stop testing on the laptop and set up a dedicated vm for it instead
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17:05riel matta-lt: I hate bugzillas that allow users to do hit-n-run bug reports ;)
17:05riel matta-lt: then you never get the details you need to actually fix a bug
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17:38matta-lt riel: anyhow, yes... it happens outside of xen also
17:39matta-lt probably not your department
17:39eigood riel: s/bugzills/bug systems/
17:43edsuom My old PC is running Gentoo distro and I am setting a new Ubuntu Linux this weekend. I want to make the existing installation (~20GB) a guest XEN OS and then migrate it to the new system. It seems like a simple kernel recompile with ARCH=xen and "xm create" and "xm migrate," running from the demo CD should work. Is that right?
17:46niv i haven't used migrate before - just copied the system or dd'd it
17:47niv the guest OS was a subset of the existing OS, since you don't want to copy over the /var/log and other dirs like that, etc
17:48niv if you use the demo CD, that would probably work, but haven't used it myself
17:48niv quite simple to do it manually
17:49niv arrrrrgh me typing in the wrong window
17:50edsuom niv: Thanks.
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17:59eigood migrating a real live machine to xen is rather simple
18:01edsuom eigood: Good to hear. Haven't seen any docs on it, though.
18:02eigood I've taken real machines, copied them over a t1 to an nfsroot, modified fstab, network, then booted in xen
18:02eigood doing the same to a block device is just about the smae
18:02eigood same
18:02edsuom Cool
18:02eigood the domU instance has very little mods
18:03eigood getting the dom0 going is not as easy as one would like, but still not difficult
18:03eigood I've converted lots of real machines to xen, here at work
18:04edsuom eigood: I was going to start from the demoCD running as dom0.
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18:05eigood we've moved beyond that here
18:05eigood of course, we run debian, and I'm the maintainer of the xen debian packages
18:05eigood and making bootstrap images is easy with debootstrap
18:06edsuom I just want to be able to poke around my ~20GB of old Gentoo setup from the new system (~120GB HDD).
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18:07edsuom The demoCD has a dhcp server, right?
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18:08eigood no clue
18:08eigood been so long
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18:31eigood demon: what happened to a?
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22:47knewt anyone got good suggestions of really good stress tests for block devices?
22:47knewt i need something that's going to do lots of simulteanous overlapping reads and writes multiple times, with verifications to make sure it's all actually worked properly
22:47@Sir_Ahzz multiple bonnie++ random IO runs?
22:48@Sir_Ahzz write a perl script that creates 50,000 randomly sized files, then forks multiple times and randomly reads them back in?
22:48@Sir_Ahzz either is fairly trivial for a decent admin.
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---Logclosed Sat Apr 30 00:00:03 2005