| --- | Log | opened Wed Feb 16 00:00:15 2022 |
| 00:03 | -!- | jgross_ is now known as jgross |
| 03:53 | <royger> | no, a system wide relaxed setting would be a bad idea IMO. That's a workaround that shouldn't be used once guests have been fixed to deal with #GP as a result of accessing certain MSRs |
| 03:53 | <royger> | ccw: do you know which MSR is causing the #GP? |
| 09:32 | -!- | szy_mat [~szy_mat@vps-4f0102e8.vps.ovh.net] has joined #xen |
| 09:32 | -!- | szy_mat is "szy_mat" on #xen |
| 09:33 | <szy_mat> | I'd like to thank you guys and especially some guy which gave me advice how to port Xen to new archs circa 2018/early 2019, it was just like "create arch/xxxxx folder and write asm code in place of placeholders until it will really compile" |
| 09:33 | <szy_mat> | yeah, it is so neat and simple |
| 09:34 | <szy_mat> | so my ports of Xen for m68k (intended for high-end ones) and ppc (yeah, back) are almost ready |
| 09:35 | <andyhhp> | wow - that's unexpected. but very welcome |
| 09:35 | <szy_mat> | andyhhp: was it you? your nickname sound familiar |
| 09:36 | <szy_mat> | and though I truly hate x86(-64), do you know can I use PAE to run PVs on a 32-bit system with like 16GB of RAM, like 3 domUs 4GB each? |
| 09:38 | <szy_mat> | probably some of you would need to recall that i386 Xen used segmentation limits for PV memory protection :D |
| 09:38 | <andyhhp> | quite possibly was me. I have vague recoolections |
| 09:38 | <szy_mat> | and BTW, what's XDDS and where is it happening? |
| 09:38 | <szy_mat> | andyhhp: so do I :) |
| 09:39 | <andyhhp> | Xen made a lot of use of the x86 architecture back in the day |
| 09:39 | <andyhhp> | even as the bits we were using were slowly becoming obsolete |
| 09:40 | <andyhhp> | XDDS => Xen Developer Summit? probably ought to defer that one to gwd |
| 09:48 | <jgross> | I think the topic of the #xen channel is a little bit outdated, it was probably set last year in summer. :-) |
| 09:49 | <andyhhp> | oh |
| 09:49 | <andyhhp> | that's the reference |
| 09:51 | <szy_mat> | jgross: hi, out of my curiosity, you guys were able to organize XDDS at some real place on this planet last summer? |
| 09:51 | <andyhhp> | yeah, who does have op? |
| 09:51 | <andyhhp> | so it was fully virtual last year |
| 09:51 | <jgross> | szy_mat: no, it was a virtual event. |
| 09:51 | <andyhhp> | this year is looking possible for a partial in-persion, partial virtual event |
| 09:52 | <szy_mat> | jgross: shit, although that's what I unfortunately thought |
| 09:52 | <szy_mat> | andyhhp: more like Europe, North America, Asia/Pacific? |
| 09:52 | <andyhhp> | well we always used to cycle through those 3 GEOs on consecutive years |
| 09:54 | <jgross> | I think Europe would be the next physical one, as the plans for 2019 where for Europe, right? |
| 09:54 | <andyhhp> | yeah, the Europe physical plans have been delayed each year |
| 09:54 | <szy_mat> | then maybe I'd be able to host you, but send me a private message for that |
| 09:55 | <szy_mat> | for more details |
| 09:55 | <andyhhp> | so https://events.linuxfoundation.org/xen-summit/ but there's been no formal annoucement yet, so still TBC |
| 10:03 | <gwd> | We're definitely goign to have a "hybrid" summit in Bucharest, unless something really bizarre happens |
| 10:03 | <gwd> | But not at that date. We're still trying to sort out a date. |
| 10:03 | <szy_mat> | gwd sounds nice |
| 10:04 | <gwd> | Where are you based? |
| 10:04 | <szy_mat> | western/central europe currently |
| 10:05 | <szy_mat> | can reach bucharest in like 2h of plane flight, or about 6-8h train or car ride |
| 10:11 | <andyhhp> | szy_mat: OOI, which ppc is that? |
| 10:12 | <andyhhp> | there are definitely some folks interested if it's Power9/10 |
| 10:12 | <andyhhp> | some other folks* |
| 10:12 | <szy_mat> | yeah, the 64-bit ppc/power port would probably be ready |
| 10:12 | <szy_mat> | right now only dom0 I've ported is Linux |
| 10:13 | <szy_mat> | but well, if I could talk with some *BSD devs (and other kernels, as well) |
| 10:13 | <szy_mat> | gonna take my PowerBooks then :) (one is 68060-custom-upgraded and the second is PPC G4, also a big part of a custom build) |
| 10:15 | <szy_mat> | both are (unfortunately) 32-bit machines which I'm focused on, but the 64-bit port is somewhere in my scratchpad forlder |
| 10:15 | <szy_mat> | and it compiles and works in qemu |
| 10:15 | <szy_mat> | when talking about ppc/power, of course |
| 10:16 | <szy_mat> | andyhhp: POWERs have some HWM-enabling features but I don't have it yet, so it's PV-only, though it's a very nice platform for PV, unlike amd64 |
| 10:16 | <szy_mat> | s/HWM/HVM |
| 10:17 | <jgross> | Are you doing the ports as a "fun project"? |
| 10:17 | <szy_mat> | no need for dynamic recompilation nor trap-and-emulate |
| 10:17 | <szy_mat> | jgross: not really |
| 10:17 | <andyhhp> | so @olivier set up a meeting with IBM a little while back |
| 10:17 | <szy_mat> | jgross: they're a part of something much bigger due Q4 2023 |
| 10:18 | <jgross> | Oh, exciting. :-) |
| 10:18 | <andyhhp> | also, QubesOS are specificially interested ppc64 support too, IIRC |
| 10:18 | <andyhhp> | fancy writing this up and sending an email to xen-devel@ ? |
| 10:19 | <szy_mat> | andyhhp: sorry for that, we're probably gonna outrule QubesOS with ur release, but they're (and their contributors) up our inspirations/credits list |
| 10:19 | <szy_mat> | s/ur/our |
| 10:19 | <andyhhp> | I didn't mean to imply that you ought to do the work to support Qubes. More I meant that maybe they could find some resource to help out too |
| 10:20 | <szy_mat> | andyhhp: when the ports will be distribution-suitable, even as alpha/bleeding-edge software, I'll surely put them on xen-devel |
| 10:21 | <szy_mat> | right now they work on my heavily-modified G4 and my bizzare 68060@133MHz machine and nothing more, so not yet I think |
| 10:21 | <andyhhp> | so we discussed stuff like this with the Risc-V port |
| 10:21 | <andyhhp> | right now, we've got a head.S and just enough build system to make a binary |
| 10:21 | <andyhhp> | and thats entirely fine to start with |
| 10:22 | <szy_mat> | mostly because they rely on my custom-written hwinit firmware which WILL be open-sourced (yeah, got all the Apple/other prioprietary code the f... out the PowerBook G4) |
| 10:22 | <andyhhp> | :) |
| 10:22 | <andyhhp> | always the way |
| 10:23 | <szy_mat> | andyhhp: not to mention my custom-build 68k machine where even the GPU/actually framebuffer RAMDAC with double-buffering and some 2D acceleration is completely custom |
| 10:23 | <szy_mat> | andyhhp: serial ports are also custom, so you'll get absolutely no debug output |
| 10:26 | <szy_mat> | andyhhp: unfortunately the PPC G4 could be Meltdown/Spectre vulnerable (but no l1tf and so on...) |
| 10:26 | <szy_mat> | and that's another issue to think and work on |
| 10:27 | <andyhhp> | yeah, that topic came up specifically |
| 10:27 | <szy_mat> | andyhhp: the m68k machine runs AROS as domU just fine |
| 10:27 | <andyhhp> | we'd have to be careful about declaring security support |
| 10:27 | <szy_mat> | so can do the PPC one, but it doesn't yet |
| 10:28 | <szy_mat> | 68060 isn't vulnerable to any of those HW-wise |
| 10:28 | <szy_mat> | I mean, 68060 particularly is unusually CISC with almost no microcode, so you can see everything on high-resolution die scans |
| 10:29 | <szy_mat> | it doesn't apply to older members of the family |
| 10:29 | <Plam> | hello szy_mat this is an interesting topic (I'm Olivier, I organized a call between IBM/OpenPOWER and some Xen devs in November) |
| 10:29 | <szy_mat> | l, |
| 10:30 | <szy_mat> | hi Plam, what was the outcome? |
| 10:30 | <andyhhp> | Plam: it wasn't last November, any more... ;) |
| 10:30 | <Plam> | well: hardware is hard to get, mainly |
| 10:30 | <Plam> | ah yeah, November 2020, frack. |
| 10:30 | <szy_mat> | TALOS II is the only one off-the-shelf dev available, but it's pricey |
| 10:31 | <Plam> | that was somehow the conclusion |
| 10:31 | <Plam> | we could have a small discount on it |
| 10:31 | <szy_mat> | that's why I'm developing on an 32-bit PowerBook |
| 10:31 | <Plam> | but that was pretty much it |
| 10:31 | <szy_mat> | Plam: okay, still nice |
| 10:31 | <Plam> | however, if there's active dev, we can participate to get better hardware |
| 10:31 | <Plam> | I can "re"activate my contact in the Open POWER foundation |
| 10:31 | <Plam> | (which is frankly mostly IBM) |
| 10:31 | <szy_mat> | Plam: don't declare my as one, yet |
| 10:32 | <szy_mat> | s/my/myself |
| 10:32 | <Plam> | yeah I'm just asking :) |
| 10:32 | <Plam> | we contributed to some extent at the RISC-V port |
| 10:33 | <szy_mat> | it didn't honestly sounded any nice that OpenPOWER is mostly IBM |
| 10:34 | <Plam> | at least it explains why it's hard to get stuff moving forward :p |
| 10:35 | <Plam> | RISC-V seems to get more momentum, but it doesn't mean Xen on POWER isn't interesting anyway :) |
| 11:01 | <andyhhp> | the more the merrier |
| 11:01 | <andyhhp> | it's good for the project health |
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| --- | Log | closed Thu Feb 17 00:00:16 2022 |